Government Involvement in Employment

[mawilson 2,133]

Its interesting that you focused on tech here. Lets expand shall we? Auto Industry ...oops yeah that's a sore subject for America isn't it...seems detroit forgot how to make cars. Okay how about Air...oh damn seems airbus is out selling BoePing...okay well there is always beer right? Oh wait is there even a large company left in the US? Poor Budweiser (I'm from STL so this is a little sore for me)

Okay I've got it! Renewables! Who makes the most windfarms...oh wait thats Vestas nevermind on that one.

Right lets fall back on oil...oh nevermind thats shell - UK.

Banking? I'm pretty sure thats HSBC (this may have changed recently...not to sure here)

It seems like the only leaders in the US are Microsoft and Walmart....and lets be honest both don't exactly play fair do they.

You're not making any sense.

Detroit forgot how to make cars? Who's the largest car manufacturer in the world? (Hint: it's not a European company)

Shell is a multinational - Shell USA is its largest business.

HSBC is what? largest bank in the world?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Let's look at it this way: The socialist countries of Germany, France, UK, Italy and Spain - when combined - roughly equate the US in population (312 vs. 304) and GDP (13.2tn vs. 14.2tn). These socialist failures with their inferior businesses somehow export USD 190 billion to the US and import USD 104 billion from the US. Quite a failure and strong proof of their inferiority indeed. Or maybe not.

I'm not sure what the trade imbalance really proves. We have a huge trade imbalance with Saudi Arabia,

does it mean its economy is stronger than ours?

Hell, the US and Europe both have huge trade imbalances with China - guess we should all look to China for economic lessons!

Saudi Arabia exports oil - hence the trade imbalance.

China functions on cheap labor. Apples and oranges unless we want to go back to Manchester.

[mawilson 2,133]

Come on, now. Are you suggesting that a Cadillac can actually compete with a Benz?

My Pontiac GTO has the same amount of power as a Merc AMG (which costs 3x as much)

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Come on, now. Are you suggesting that a Cadillac can actually compete with a Benz?

My Pontiac GTO has the same amount of power as a Merc AMG (which costs 3x as much)

The C63 AMG (451hp) has a price tag (MSRP) of 56K.

The GTO (400hp) had a price tag (MSRP) of 31K.

Your cost analysis isn't right but your GTO will fall apart in a third of the time that you'd get to enjoy the AMG.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[mawilson 2,133]

Come on, now. Are you suggesting that a Cadillac can actually compete with a Benz?

My Pontiac GTO has the same amount of power as a Merc AMG (which costs 3x as much)

The C63 AMG (451hp) has a price tag (MSRP) of 56K.

The GTO (400hp) had a price tag (MSRP) of 31K.

Your cost analysis isn't right but your GTO will fall apart in a third of the time that you'd get to enjoy the AMG.

I seriously doubt that.

Look, Germany makes very good cars. They also make very expensive cars.

A top-range Mercedes is better than a top-range Cadillac. Is it so much better than it

warrants a 200% price premium over the Cadillac? Absolutely not. That's what makes

these cars a symbol of status - they cost much more than they are worth.

[mawilson 2,133]

Saudi Arabia exports oil - hence the trade imbalance.

China functions on cheap labor. Apples and oranges unless we want to go back to Manchester.

Again, it's not a function of quality.

Are California bruts necessarily worse than Champagne? No, but you can't call it "champagne" unless it's made in France.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Its interesting that you focused on tech here. Lets expand shall we? Auto Industry ...oops yeah that's a sore subject for America isn't it...seems detroit forgot how to make cars. Okay how about Air...oh damn seems airbus is out selling BoePing...okay well there is always beer right? Oh wait is there even a large company left in the US? Poor Budweiser (I'm from STL so this is a little sore for me)

Okay I've got it! Renewables! Who makes the most windfarms...oh wait thats Vestas nevermind on that one.

Right lets fall back on oil...oh nevermind thats shell - UK.

Banking? I'm pretty sure thats HSBC (this may have changed recently...not to sure here)

It seems like the only leaders in the US are Microsoft and Walmart....and lets be honest both don't exactly play fair do they.

You're not making any sense.

Detroit forgot how to make cars? Who's the largest car manufacturer in the world? (Hint: it's not a European company)

Shell is a multinational - Shell USA is its largest business.

HSBC is what? largest bank in the world?

Toyota overtook GM as of 2008 in selling the most cars. You'll find that GM will also become much smaller after bankruptcy. Brands like Opel etc. going elsewhere.

No offense but bankruptcy sounds like FAIL to me.

Shell is a multinational company, however its origin is British and Dutch. I'll admit on this one that the US branch acts independently since its start.

And yes HSBC is the world's largest bank.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Come on, now. Are you suggesting that a Cadillac can actually compete with a Benz?

My Pontiac GTO has the same amount of power as a Merc AMG (which costs 3x as much)

The C63 AMG (451hp) has a price tag (MSRP) of 56K.

The GTO (400hp) had a price tag (MSRP) of 31K.

Your cost analysis isn't right but your GTO will fall apart in a third of the time that you'd get to enjoy the AMG.

I seriously doubt that.

Look, Germany makes very good cars. They also make very expensive cars.

A top-range Mercedes is better than a top-range Cadillac. Is it so much better than it warrants a 200% price premium over the Cadillac? Absolutely not. That's what makes these cars a symbol of status - they cost much more than they are worth.

Germany also makes very good but rather inexpensive cars and markets and sells those in the US quite successfully as well. It ain't just the Porsche, Benz and BMW anymore. Are those cars worth what they're sold for? Of course they are. Otherwise they wouldn't sell at that premium. If you ask specifically whether a top range Benz is worth considerably more than a top range Cadillac, I'd tell you that it is. Just take each one out for a spin and tell me that the Cadillac rides and handles even nearly as well as the Benz. It simply doesn't.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Banking? I'm pretty sure thats HSBC (this may have changed recently...not to sure here)

HSBC is what? largest bank in the world?

And yes HSBC is the world's largest bank.

Seems that you're right, based on market cap, HSBC was the largest bank as of Feb 2009.

BANK......................MKT CAP

HSBC (HSBA.L).............$98.68 bln

JPMorgan (JPM.N)..........$93.54 bln

Santander (SAN.MC)........$61.39 bln

Goldman Sachs (GS.N)......$41.75 bln

Bank of America (BAC.N)...$35.54 bln

[mawilson 2,133]

Toyota overtook GM as of 2008 in selling the most cars. You'll find that GM will also become much smaller after bankruptcy. Brands like Opel etc. going elsewhere.

No offense but bankruptcy sounds like FAIL to me.

Toyota is not a European company.

Anyway, here's the sales and market share data by manufacturer for June 2009.

As you can see, GM is still #1 in the US, bankruptcy or not:

General Motors Corp.............174,006

Ford Motor Company..............147,831

Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc......131,654

American Honda Motor Co Inc.....100,420

Chrysler LLC.....................68,297

Nissan North America Inc.........58,298

Hyundai Motor America............37,943

Volkswagen of America Inc........34,717

Kia Motors America Inc...........26,845

Subaru of America Inc............18,620

BMW of North America Inc.........16,744

Mercedes-Benz....................15,157

Mazda Motor of America Inc.......13,729

Audi of America Inc...............7,524

Volvo.............................7,042

Mitsubishi Motors N A, Inc........4,362

Mini..............................4,105

American Suzuki Motor Corp........2,149

Land Rover........................1,939

Jaguar..............................936

Porsche Cars NA Inc.................902

Saab................................779

Bentley.............................123

Maserati............................111

Ferrari.............................109

Rolls Royce..........................29

Maybach...............................5

Total Cars......................459,992

..Domestic......................152,027

..Import........................307,965

Total Trucks....................399,855

..Domestic......................238,107

..Import........................161,748

TOTAL LIGHT VEHICLE SALES.......859,847

[mawilson 2,133]

Sorry... market share as of June 2009:

GM: 20.2%

Ford: 17.2%

Chrysler: 7.9%

Toyota: 15.3%

Honda: 11.7%

Nissan: 6.8%

Hyundai: 4.4%

Mercedes: 1.8%

VW: 4.0%

BMW: 1.9%

Mazda: 1.6%

Kia: 3.1%

Subaru: 2.2%

(all other manufacturers less than 1%)

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Sorry... market share as of June 2009:

GM: 20.2%

Ford: 17.2%

Chrysler: 7.9%

Toyota: 15.3%

Honda: 11.7%

Nissan: 6.8%

Hyundai: 4.4%

Mercedes: 1.8%

VW: 4.0%

BMW: 1.9%

Mazda: 1.6%

Kia: 3.1%

Subaru: 2.2%

(all other manufacturers less than 1%)

Yeah but those are US numbers not global right???

And I was like you at one time, thinking that the US was the best at everything and that are working conditions were the best. Then I worked for a few companies in different areas outside the US and I have to say it was a serious wake up call.

Edited July 20, 2009 by lancer1655

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Btw, I think someone called me an obama socialist lover liberal earlier on (or something like that...). I'm actually a moderate. I am Pro Life, anti gun control etc. I think the government is making a mistake by shutting down the F22 line completely. I think they should order a handful every year because while may not need them now the world can change very quickly and I'm not sure the joint strike f. is up to the challenge with regards to air superiority.

On the business side I just see a large group of workers in the US who are suffering so I don't think I fit into that liberal category all together.

Edited July 20, 2009 by lancer1655

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Sorry... market share as of June 2009:

GM: 20.2%

Ford: 17.2%

Chrysler: 7.9%

Toyota: 15.3%

Honda: 11.7%

Nissan: 6.8%

Hyundai: 4.4%

Mercedes: 1.8%

VW: 4.0%

BMW: 1.9%

Mazda: 1.6%

Kia: 3.1%

Subaru: 2.2%

Yeah but those are US numbers not global right???

They are and what is more troubeling than the actual market share at this point is the trend. The big three used to have a market share of 80% - that was less than 25 years ago. They were at 49% back in December 2008 and now have about 45% market share left according to the above. Two of them went into bancruptcy. Not exactly a success story - much less proof of superiority - in my book.

[mawilson 2,133]

Yeah but those are US numbers not global right???

And I was like you at one time, thinking that the US was the best at everything and that are working conditions were the best. Then I worked for a few companies in different areas outside the US and I have to say it was a serious wake up call.

I don't think the US is the best at everything. I don't think Europe is the best at everything either.