California faces its day of fiscal reckoning

[_Simpson_ 250]

I dont know about all that, think what you want but seriously you people need to quit it with making excuses for them and trying to minimize there involvement in this

What people? what excuses? There are excellent state programs that are supported by people from all political persuasions. To throw all these out in some blind "it's an evil Democrat plot" blame game is blind partisanship.

What people - You and other people here at VJ. Excuses- a earlier post you tried to minimize the role they took in causing this mess and also this post here. Its not blind partisanship, lets face it republicans have very little power in that state, it is a democratic run state, it is what it is like it or not. If Arizona was going to hell in a handbag like California you would in no way hear me trying to blame democrats or act like they were to equally to blame. Does all blame go to democrats, no but most of it.

[Peikko 1,575]

No, I am not 'people' I am one person and I do not belong to any political group. What I do find sickening, is the blame game and what I have noticed is that it's more often the Republicans who use it as a political tactic than the Democrats although they are not immune. However, you missed my main argument, or chose not to see it. There are excellent state run programs that will be lost because the politicians prefer to play games, at the tax payer expense. Fixing these problems will not be achieved by simply voting in Republicans and thinking everything will be wonderful. That, is partisan bullshit.

Going to 'hell in a handbag' is a new one on me, it sounds very Lady Bracknell

[DEDixon 39]

No, I am not 'people' I am one person and I do not belong to any political group. What I do find sickening, is the blame game and what I have noticed is that it's more often the Republicans who use it as a political tactic than the Democrats although they are not immune. However, you missed my main argument, or chose not to see it. There are excellent state run programs that will be lost because the politicians prefer to play games, at the tax payer expense. Fixing these problems will not be achieved by simply voting in Republicans and thinking everything will be wonderful. That, is partisan bullshit.

Going to 'hell in a handbag' is a new one on me, it sounds very Lady Bracknell

Blame game? This is nothing new on either side of the isle. Campaigns are all about "look what the DEMS did" or "look what the REPUBS did" elect me to fix it all <-- that is all about blame, I can't see how you can label it otherwise.

[_Simpson_ 250]

No, I am not 'people' I am one person and I do not belong to any political group. What I do find sickening, is the blame game and what I have noticed is that it's more often the Republicans who use it as a political tactic than the Democrats although they are not immune. However, you missed my main argument, or chose not to see it. There are excellent state run programs that will be lost because the politicians prefer to play games, at the tax payer expense. Fixing these problems will not be achieved by simply voting in Republicans and thinking everything will be wonderful. That, is partisan bullshit.

Going to 'hell in a handbag' is a new one on me, it sounds very Lady Bracknell

Not a blame game, just stating the obvious. If we dont collectivity call a spade a spade we will have a hard time fixing this mess. Why would you want the state running these programs to begin with, there horrible at it, point in case, California. The the government is the problem not the ............

I never said voting in republicans was the solution, although I think they would do a much better job, hell they couldnt do worse. Small government is the solution. Give both sides very little power that is what I say, is that partisan bullshit???

Edited May 23, 2009 by looking_up

[_Simpson_ 250]

I have to get going unfortunatlly, this was getting good. As the man you admire would say, Ill give you the last word.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

WHAT THE DEMS HAVE DONE TO CALIFORNIA.............

Link?

Nice finger pointing without actually showing any substance that supports your accusation.

Come on Steven, the DEMS have been the majority in the legislature for how many decades? The only thing the repubs can do is block tax increases basically and everything else requires the simple majority, right?

The policies of California, the overall majority of all policies -- how and why California does pretty much everything -- is proudly attributed to the DEMS by the DEMS. California is well known for its liberal ways.

On a national level both US Senators are DEMS. 33 of the 53 representatives in the US congress are DEMS. Repubs have never had a majority in the US congress at the state level. Yeah, I know I'm talking about the US senate and congress and not the local legislating body, but my point is, California is run by DEMS locally and from afar.

How can California's current issues not be fully attributed to the DEMS?

You're smarter than that and you know it. For one, you know that having a simple majority doesn't mean squat in this state when it comes to raising revenue. So every budget turns into a stale mate until enough Republicans realize that shutting down the state government ends up costing us more billions of dollars. You know that our Republican Governor has said that he went line by line over the last budget and found no where else they could cut.

No, there are many factors going into why our state has a huge deficit, but the biggest factor is that tax revenues have gone down because of the country's Recession. We've reached a point now that even if you dismantled state government altogether, which I know would make many hardliner Republicans giddy, we still have this huge deficit.

I've said it before and I'll say again - we need to change the 2/3 majority requirement to a simple majority. Then let the majority run the state the way they envision, but hold them accountable. What we have right now is Californians like you who simply blame the majority instead acknowledging the reality of the situation. A 2/3 majority has made it so the minority essentially controls the legislature when it comes to tax revenue. It's time end that nonsense.

[DEDixon 39]

WHAT THE DEMS HAVE DONE TO CALIFORNIA.............

Link?

Nice finger pointing without actually showing any substance that supports your accusation.

Come on Steven, the DEMS have been the majority in the legislature for how many decades? The only thing the repubs can do is block tax increases basically and everything else requires the simple majority, right?

The policies of California, the overall majority of all policies -- how and why California does pretty much everything -- is proudly attributed to the DEMS by the DEMS. California is well known for its liberal ways.

On a national level both US Senators are DEMS. 33 of the 53 representatives in the US congress are DEMS. Repubs have never had a majority in the US congress at the state level. Yeah, I know I'm talking about the US senate and congress and not the local legislating body, but my point is, California is run by DEMS locally and from afar.

How can California's current issues not be fully attributed to the DEMS?

You're smarter than that and you know it. For one, you know that having a simple majority doesn't mean squat in this state when it comes to raising revenue. So every budget turns into a stale mate until enough Republicans realize that shutting down the state government ends up costing us more billions of dollars. You know that our Republican Governor has said that he went line by line over the last budget and found no where else they could cut.

No, there are many factors going into why our state has a huge deficit, but the biggest factor is that tax revenues have gone down because of the country's Recession. We've reached a point now that even if you dismantled state government altogether, which I know would make many hardliner Republicans giddy, we still have this huge deficit.

I've said it before and I'll say again - we need to change the 2/3 majority requirement to a simple majority. Then let the majority run the state the way they envision, but hold them accountable. What we have right now is Californians like you who simply blame the majority instead acknowledging the reality of the situation. A 2/3 majority has made it so the minority essentially controls the legislature when it comes to tax revenue. It's time end that nonsense.

The current mess is from decades of Dem rule - that's my point. Look way beyond the current Governor and legislature. The situation we are in has snowballed because the Dems, who have controlled California, would never reform the budget so that it wouldn't boom and bust. It is an obvious problem, however they did nothing and no one can say that the repubs would not agree to budget reform since they've been trying to do it since the dark ages.

2/3 has absolutely nothing to do with this current situation... really nothing at all. No matter what the system, the leaders are responsible for proper management. 2/3 can't be used as an excuse. Mentioning 2/3 is simply a diversion from what really needs to happen - budget reform. To suggest 2/3 as a solution is to suggest tax hikes and given the latest election results, the people of California are tired of tax hikes (especially those who pay taxes!). I do see though that you realize simple majority would bring about a Republican majority in the legislature. But, this isn't the answer either, because without budget reform, we still have boom and bust. Real budget reform and a simple majority - I'm all for it!

Also, pols should not be allow to forecast any revenue. Revenue forecasting should be outsourced (completely outside of Government). Pols rosey forecasting is another problem.

[Heracles 417]

Has anyone ever thought about the billions in revenue lost due to from illegal aliens? Illegal aliens who not only take capital and send it overseas but also utilize a hell of a lot of state / county resources, while pay little for it.

The state has over 35 million people.

The state has some mega rich people

The state has Hollywood

The state has high tax rates

The state the heart of the multi-billion dollar IT industry

Yet the state is bankrupt. How is that even possible?

Edited May 24, 2009 by Constellation

[sj5 4]

Think today, Never Tomorrow.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

WHAT THE DEMS HAVE DONE TO CALIFORNIA.............

Link?

Nice finger pointing without actually showing any substance that supports your accusation.

Come on Steven, the DEMS have been the majority in the legislature for how many decades? The only thing the repubs can do is block tax increases basically and everything else requires the simple majority, right?

The policies of California, the overall majority of all policies -- how and why California does pretty much everything -- is proudly attributed to the DEMS by the DEMS. California is well known for its liberal ways.

On a national level both US Senators are DEMS. 33 of the 53 representatives in the US congress are DEMS. Repubs have never had a majority in the US congress at the state level. Yeah, I know I'm talking about the US senate and congress and not the local legislating body, but my point is, California is run by DEMS locally and from afar.

How can California's current issues not be fully attributed to the DEMS?

You're smarter than that and you know it. For one, you know that having a simple majority doesn't mean squat in this state when it comes to raising revenue. So every budget turns into a stale mate until enough Republicans realize that shutting down the state government ends up costing us more billions of dollars. You know that our Republican Governor has said that he went line by line over the last budget and found no where else they could cut.

No, there are many factors going into why our state has a huge deficit, but the biggest factor is that tax revenues have gone down because of the country's Recession. We've reached a point now that even if you dismantled state government altogether, which I know would make many hardliner Republicans giddy, we still have this huge deficit.

I've said it before and I'll say again - we need to change the 2/3 majority requirement to a simple majority. Then let the majority run the state the way they envision, but hold them accountable. What we have right now is Californians like you who simply blame the majority instead acknowledging the reality of the situation. A 2/3 majority has made it so the minority essentially controls the legislature when it comes to tax revenue. It's time end that nonsense.

The current mess is from decades of Dem rule - that's my point. Look way beyond the current Governor and legislature. The situation we are in has snowballed because the Dems, who have controlled California, would never reform the budget so that it wouldn't boom and bust. It is an obvious problem, however they did nothing and no one can say that the repubs would not agree to budget reform since they've been trying to do it since the dark ages.

2/3 has absolutely nothing to do with this current situation... really nothing at all. No matter what the system, the leaders are responsible for proper management. 2/3 can't be used as an excuse. Mentioning 2/3 is simply a diversion from what really needs to happen - budget reform. To suggest 2/3 as a solution is to suggest tax hikes and given the latest election results, the people of California are tired of tax hikes (especially those who pay taxes!). I do see though that you realize simple majority would bring about a Republican majority in the legislature. But, this isn't the answer either, because without budget reform, we still have boom and bust. Real budget reform and a simple majority - I'm all for it!

Also, pols should not be allow to forecast any revenue. Revenue forecasting should be outsourced (completely outside of Government). Pols rosey forecasting is another problem.

DE - I don't know how anyone in their right minds could not see that the 2/3 requirement prevents a simple majority from legislating their agenda. Look back at just the last budget stale mate. The Democrats had a budget proposal but not enough votes for a 2/3 majority, so they worked with the Governor on a compromised budget, but even then it took several months and the state on the brink of shutting down before enough Republicans voted for the budget. That is a HUGE reason why the majority is unable to pass legislation, because any tax increase means they have no way of funding it.

[DEDixon 39]

I guess we will see which party is most responsible when we see the list of cuts.... anyone can identify a dem sponsored program vs. a repub sponsored program.

Edited May 24, 2009 by DEDixon

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I guess we will see which party is most responsible when we see the list of cuts.... anyone can identify a dem sponsored program vs. a repub sponsored program.

If the Democrats are in the majority, they should lead the economic agenda, no? That's how it works nationally. Until California gets rid of the 2/3 requirement, no new legislation can be funded without enough Republicans climbing on board and most of them won't. So we basically have ineffective Legislatures trying to fix the deficit and nobody is thrilled about paying taxes.

I understand the Republicans want to believe they are acting fiscally conservative, but they are acting fiscally irresponsible. The deficit has to be paid and the ugly truth means taxes. If there are specific state programs that the hardliners want to see cut or eliminated, they should be on a PR campaign to sell California voters on their agenda. However, they won't because California voters actually won't those state programs to continue. So we go full circle back to what I said earlier....the minority in this state have the power to stop government from functioning. It's time to end the 2/3 requirement and let the will of the majority of voters decide how to run this state.

[mawilson 2,133]

I understand the Republicans want to believe they are acting fiscally conservative, but they are acting fiscally irresponsible. The deficit has to be paid and the ugly truth means taxes.

To me it means reduced spending, not higher taxes.

They can start by releasing prisoners that shouldn't be in prison (e.g. marijuana smokers).

[mawilson 2,133]

Has anyone ever thought about the billions in revenue lost due to from illegal aliens? Illegal aliens who not only take capital and send it overseas but also utilize a hell of a lot of state / county resources, while pay little for it.

The state has over 35 million people.

The state has some mega rich people

The state has Hollywood

The state has high tax rates

The state the heart of the multi-billion dollar IT industry

Yet the state is bankrupt. How is that even possible?

The government can always spend more money that it collects in revenue, no matter how high the tax rates are.

That is the root of the problem.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I understand the Republicans want to believe they are acting fiscally conservative, but they are acting fiscally irresponsible. The deficit has to be paid and the ugly truth means taxes.

To me it means reduced spending, not higher taxes.

They can start by releasing prisoners that shouldn't be in prison (e.g. marijuana smokers).

The majority of Californias do want to legalize marijuana. I think that would be the best thing the state could do. Legalize it and tax it.