tiffmal

I was responding to the OP, I didnt have the time to read thru all the pages.

I am the OP and under the title of the thread is where I put "and other religions too".

Ron, this last statement of yours is my sentiment as well. I'll never claim to be one who can 'debate'. I will lose any debate.

I can 'defend' my beliefs as you well know...but I do realize that in the end it is 'faith'. From time to time you'll see me in here stating a article of faith and why I believe it. I can do this as well as anyone. However, I have no desire to be in the cross-fire of an intellectual battle of historical record or to debate the merits of, in the case, Josephus or even the Talmud or the resurrection. You and I know the points too well and we know each other's arguments. Its a waste of energy...but sometimes its nice to have the conversation to keep our razors sharp.

Blessings to you my JewBro!

MK

I can't think of many things these days where faith and believing in the unseen is good enough. People spend their whole lives doing research and solving problems and proving things yet one can almost feel guilty for questioning God. When I was younger I tried so hard to "open myself" to God but I just can't devote my life to something I cannot see. I like to live my life for today and not obsess about something I cannot see or touch. I would rather spend my Sunday morning having breakfast with my family than praising God.

He did not do these things. You believe that he did these things. Those are not the same.

God didn't write the bible. The bible is comprised of stories that were chosen by men. The best of many stories made it into the bible- many were exempt. Those are the same men that were so ###### that god had to kill his son to save them. Likely story!

What is hell? Absence from God. God welcomes everyone with open arms - even the most wretched. It's up to each person to accept God's love or reject Him. No one is sent away by God. It is a choice and part of free will.

Hmm well if hell is the absence of God then I suppose I'm in hell. Its been pretty nice.

Its hard for me to rationalize what you said. I don't feel welcomed by God. I don't feel anything from God. Im just a wretch.

Tiffmal why are you singling out Christianity? Can you explain why Christianity is unique when it comes to this matter?

I didn't intend to single it out- I just know a lot of people who are Christian over any other religion which got me to thinking. I also added that this probably includes other religions too.

Jesus is back in town!

Happy birthday!

Bishop - I plan on drinking lots to stay warm! Drinking has turned into a new weekend tradition. I've decided I can hang with more people if I'm drunk because they don't annoy me

Lucky for them!

I live on the east coast and it's getting really cold here too.

You picked the wrong strawman, methinks. Orthodox Protestant Christianity is perhaps the only major religion on the planet that doesn't follow the "do good things -> get rewarded by <deity>" template.

Christianity's paradigm is that all of us are damaged and evil to one extent or another, completely and utterly undeserving of anything from God but eternal destruction. If that were the whole story it would be incredibly depressing. God has every moral right to hate everything we are and everything we stand for.

But the Gospel, the good news, is that God loves us. He loves us more than the most loyal human husband loves his wife. He loves us so much, despite our brokenness and our evil hurtful intents to each other, despite our open hatred of Him, that He agreed, as Jesus, to take the punishment and destruction we deserve, bear it for us, and let us live forever in a renewed and repaired universe.

God loves us, regardless of who we are, what we do, or even how hard we try. It's good news. Unbelievably good news for all of us.

If he loves us ALL so much then why do some people go to hell?

Good for you. You did the right thing!

selfish parents tick me off. all those parents out there bring kids into the world just so they don't get bored with themselves, parents need a few projects to keep them busy... got to be the most selfish act because after all the world is a sh$t hole so after a little thought, who in their right mind would want to subject another person to this mess?

are you a parent yet tiffmal?

Hell no. I wont bring a kid into the picture until I am extra bored

Actually, we do know.... have you not considered the endless millions executed or worked to death under communism?

Atheism was the policy of the Communist Gov't.... and killing on unknown scale took place.

When you accept human life is no more and flesh and blood, then you are able to place value on it.... or not.

Yes but communism wasn't solely about taking away religion.

Looks like we have another post ####### aboard.

Who are the others?

Seems you have issues past salvation.

Let me try again.

YOu have a free ticket to fly anywhere in the world you want..... how likely is it you are going to still pay for it?

I don't mean to trivialize these issues but, your'e desire to downgrade the good works people do .......might be make more sense if go at it from the angle of:

CHristians do all this good work out of guilt, trying to repay God.

So its more like if I refer a friend to Verizon Wireless I can get a $20 credit on my account but so can my friend.

I think if the fallacy of some fairy tale infinitely permanent happy ending fictional place called Heaven that Muslim/Jewish/Christian (etcetera) men created then there would be no religion at all.

If the truth was revealed that when you die you die, and if people would wake up, then what would be the point of talking to yourself inside of your mind (ie praying, ie talking with God)?

The idea of Heaven, which was created by man, is a very large incentive to either be genuinely religious or just a "pretend" religious person as 90%+ of Christians are (oh yea, I sincerely believe Jesus died for me and every night when I make my 30 second prayer I ask Jesus to cleanse me of my sins therefore I'm going to Heaven, YES!!!).

On the topic of selfishness, the ironic thing is that in Christianity, the most selfless act ever committed by God is that He brutally murdered His own Son. How does that show love? Can I really say "I love you so much that I am going to murder my only Child in a brutal and gruesome way?" How does that have anything to do with love?

I agree. I would choose my son any day over a bunch of #### ups.

If we think things are bad now, imagine how brutal the world would be if a majority of its inhabitants did not have the fear of hell guiding their decisions.

That is a real suck reason for people not to do bad things.

Every action in life is selfish. You don't need religion for that...

There's no such thing as a 'selfless' act despite what the 'hero' mentality of society does to us.

Interesting. So you're saying that not only are they selfish but maybe a little stupid too for believing if they do good, they will end up in a place that might not exist.

I think your understanding of basic Christian theology is limited.

Christians do not "work their way into heaven".

Good works are the evidence of a Christian faith, not the cause of it.

Right but in the end, what does it all come down to? Going to heaven.

Christians are all about doing good deeds and helping people out. Why? So they can go to Heaven. They help others so that they themselves can get past the pearly gates.

What do you think?

To the OP- I am very sorry you are being put through this. No woman deserves that treatment from a man. Your instincts as a woman and a mother are leading you to question this situation and that's good! You deserve better and so does your child. Please think twice about moving there. Breaking up is hard we all know that. No matter how much you miss him, how much you cry, how much he begs, it will get better. You have a son to look after so just remember that when times are hard. I wish you the best and I hope you choose to stay in the states with your son.

I didn't realize this is the same person who is unsure about her situation with her fiance and that he is behaving badly. In that case I think I know enough details of the story to be able to say: please do not subject your young son to this situation! Don't even put yourself through it! Stop this madness now. It would be very honorable for you to admit its not right for the sake of your child and break up before you move all the way there to find out things you already know and are concerned about. This is not a stable or suitable environment for a child.

Please see MM's other post from today if you're interested in wanting to rip your hair out in frustration & cry for her child. Unbelievable.

Yes. I seriously hope that monica will not be defending subjecting a child to this #######. Unbelievable is right.

The Bengali gets disowned, that's what.

(i am bengali)

Probably the Sioux does too.

I agree that each is open to express their opinions...i just try to wait to give mine with all of the information about the situation first, that's why I wouldn't tell her either way. And saying a person shouldn't get in to a relationship because they have a child (in my opinion) is forcing something on a child that they probably would not choose. Most children want both parents in their lives, and it doesn't always need to be biological either for them to be happy children.

Monica

Well then we can agree to disagree on that. I don't think it's generally good for a chiild to have two dads and have their lives changed or disrupted unnecessarily. I am of the school of thought that for divorced parents, their only priority should be raising their child and letting romance take the back seat. But that's just me. Every situation is different.

But see, you don't know her situation. And she didn't ask for your opinion on the tiny bit of it that you do know. It never ceases to amaze me when people seem to know what's in the best interest of someone else's child. If the woman was moving across the US, would you have the same opinion? I'm quite sure the OP has put a lot of thought into the situation before making a decision, and has made her decision already, without the uneducated opinions of total strangers.

I see your point and like I said I sure don't know all the details and im not asking for them. I am simply saying what I think. Sorry you feel the need to hit me over the head. I realize people don't like conflict but I am allowed to share my opinion.

Oh ok. Now I understand why you are defending her. I never said I had all the facts. Im stating my opinion just like you are. Sorry you don't like mine. Im sure there's a lot to the story but either way I think the child should come first. Call me old school but when a child comes into the picture I generally don't think dating or remarrying is the best idea for the kid.