charity1214

Thank you for the input. I am going to try writing the CBP to ask them to stop. We are also going to start carrying our waiver paperwork with us when we travel. I feel somewhat more secure knowing I have that with us to show them.

Hello,

I was a member here years ago when we were going through our immigration journey and received so much support and help on these boards.  I never thought I'd be back, but here I am!  Any direction or information would be greatly greatly appreciated! 

Quick background:

Husband from Canada- age 37. Immigration process started when he was 30.

Married Sept 2010 - He lived in Canada while we did the IR-1 Spouse Visa.

In the Visa process he disclosed that he was arrested once when he was 18. The crime carried a potential of 1 year in prison, so it was classified as CIMT. He was never jailed, did some public service hours, and it was pardoned by Canada.

Visa was denied for CIMT.

We pursued the 601. The appeal was approved and he received his VISA in Spring of 2013 and he moved to the United States in May 2013.

He has his SSN, Green card, no record/issues/arrests/etc., files and pays taxes, gainfully employed since 2013. Basically we've been enjoying a normal life with my kids as a family.

However,  we do go back to Canada at least once a year to visit his parents who still live there. He is an only child so we definitely make sure to visit as often as we can.  Everytime we return to the US, the border patrol asks us to pull over and go inside.  We spend 30-45 minutes waiting to talk to an officer who asks us the same questions about our marriage, visa, and then they start asking about his "crime."  We explain that we did the appeal, it was approved, he has the green card, etc. etc. We don't understand the issue.  This most recent visit the officer explained that even though Canada pardoned the crime, the US does not recognize other country's pardons.  Well we know that, but that's what the 601 process/appeal was for. We explained it, acknowledged it, justified how he's no longer a threat and the dept. of homeland security approved it, so what's the problem? He says that every time we come back in the country, he's flagged and this will happen to us everytime and there is always the possibility that he could be denied entry.  So far that hasn't happened, but now we dont' know what to do to fix it.  The officer kept saying that we had to file some paperwork but could never clearly say what it was. Something about having it removed from his US record so it'll stop flagging him at the border.

Does anyone have any idea what he is talking about?  Was there something else we were supposed to do on the US side after we were approved to "close" this issue?

Any advise would be helpful!
 

*Charity1214*

Not to scare you but my husband quit his job right before the interview, and then we got denied. He has not been able to get a job since (over a year). Granted, financially he doesn't "NEED" to work although the extra money during our 601 process would've been nice, it was very frustrating on my end to have a spouse not working and having to wait another year before this process was done. We anticipate him getting to move down in the next month, but looking back I learned never to make any permanent choices until the visa is IN OUR HANDS. I'ts a personal choice though... just know that sometimes things just don't work out in the timing we expect. Good luck!

We filed 9-12-12, 1 CIMT (13 years ago), and were approved today (4 months, 3 weeks). Just fyi

We have decided to hire a lawyer and may pursue both angles of defining if it really IS CIMT and also the 601. I'm still disgusted that a 19 year old kid that did something stupid and paid dearly for it 11 years ago can still be considered a threat to the United States. I'm also frustrated that the CO that called my husband to inform him of the denial and advise him to just hurry and file the 601 waiver while we wait for his Holland Police Certificate to come in to "finish this up for him" led us to believe that it was "no big deal" and just a formality. After reading and researching this, I would hardly treat it so 'lightly' as she did. Daily I am torn between thinking "is it really no big deal and we should just do this ourselves and get it back into them" and thinking "holy #######, if we don't hire a good lawyer, we're screwed." I am frustrated that I can't find any good examples that are similar to ours to see if it's fairly procedural or it they really will expect it to show extreme hardship and hopelessness without each other just to wrap this up.

Sorry for the vent, but even though I understand the purpose of the denial and the guidelines by which they use them, I find myself learning more and more that this is a very broken system. People like my husband are NOT the ones the government need to be protecting us from. He could completely help and support 4 wonderful children and be a partner and helpmate to me, but he can't cause he used poor judgement as a 19 year old kid.

Its not what he was actually sentenced it is if the POSSIBLE sentence was over a year for said crime AND/Or if he served over a year.

Its not uncommon for the Consular section to get this one wrong or have to ask USCIS for an opinion on it, or tell someone they have to get a waiver but when they go through the whole process USCIS tells them they didn't need one and sends it all back to consular.

Problem is the only way to get an "advisory opinion" is to have an attorney request it. So lawyer up if you are sure the possible sentence was under a year. In any case the consular and USCIS is going to want to see Police records and do some research into the exact criminal code in Canada before approving a VISA anyway.

If you need a waiver the previous advice on developing your arguments is pretty good. As far as time the consular was correct, and unfortunately it looks like they will be bringing more waivers to the States for adjudication so that will effect processing time as well. Start working on collecting evidence now.

As for your daughters issues, the hardship has to be to you not her, so make that transisition in your narrative that you fear this will send her into a tailspin and it is a psychological hardship to you to know that you would be causing this trauma to her.

As far as fighting with the ex , not necessary. If you think he would not agree to allow her to live in Canada, just write that letter on his behalf in sworn statement format or affidavit format and get him to sign it, make it easy for him to cooperate.

Thank you for the input... very helpful. The possible sentence is 18 months so we won't be able to go that route. Regarding your comment about bringing more waivers to the states, do you mean even those that would normally be outside the states?? He is still in Canada, so we were told to send the waiver back to the Consulate in montreal, NOT the states. Can you clarify?

How would we find out the maximum he COULD have been imposed with? This is according to Canada law or US Law?

Ugh, Nevermind... I looked it up and it's 18 months maximum sentence. I have an appointment with a lawyer on Monday for a consultation.

What was the crime? Being sentenced to community service satisfies the maximum sentence provision of the exclusion, but we need to know what was the maximum penalty they could have imposed? If the maximum penalty they could have imposed is more than one year then he wouldn't qualify for the exclusion.

How would we find out the maximum he COULD have been imposed with? This is according to Canada law or US Law?

Sorry to hear about your woes. Thank you.

If exclusion case (2) applies to your husband's case IN FULL, then it seems like he may not be ineligible for the visa due to the CIMT.see my post right before this! I agree!

I too would advise you to seek a lawyer's advice though - at the very least he could draft a letter for you stating the above and presenting evidence in order to convince the Embassy that a waiver is not required and that your husband is otherwise eligible for the visa.

Is there no way you can save up for a few hours of consultation? A lawyer who is experienced at filing waivers shouldn't need more than a few hours total to consult with you on your case, advise you on the documents you will need to bring to them as evidence and then drafting the waiver letter itself. I am going to pay for a consultation and confirm this. I do believe it is worth the few hundred dollars to follow up on this.

Re the waiver: I am no expert by any means, so I'm only going to offer my opinion based on how you have described your situation. To me it sounds like the strongest point to your favor would be your children's custody and the fact that you wouldn't be able to leave the country and take the kids with you without having to go through the expenses and psychological cost of a legal battle with their father. A competent lawyer should be able to present this in a favorable light with the right type of language to demonstrate hardship. Our strongest arguement I believe as well.

A couple other ideas (don't know if they apply, but they may help you think more outside the box - you're obviously quite flustered right now): lol yes i was/am

-How about your children's school? Could there be a particular reason why your children should not move areas or schools? You didn't mention their ages, but for example: does one of your kids excel at a sport their school is very strong at? Or does their school have a strong academic record, so that if they changed schools this could affect their chances of academic progress and/or entry into a good college? You get the point. yes, my daughter was suicidal and self-harming after her father and I's divorce. She was in therapy for awhile and we changed schools. In the last year she has improved tremendously and stopped the negative behaviors and is excelling in behavior and school work (straight A's!) since. I fear uprooting her and moving to Canada would cause her to regress back to her harmful behaviors.

-How about your job in the States? Do you perhaps do a specialized job that requires you to be in a certain region to stay employed? Does the region where your husband lives in Canada have available jobs in your sector, or is there a shortage and you would struggle to find something in your field if you moved there? Again, you get the gist. (I am an administrative assistant with no college degree (only a year away if I returned to school) so it's not specialized unfortunately. Probably not a good argument).

-Would your husband's income be enough to cover the financial needs of both of you + your children for possibly several months? If you had to move with him to Canada and take your family with you, would all of you be able to live solely off of your husband's earnings until you found a new job for yourself? I assume you'd have to leave your job in the States to move to Canada and be with him. No way... he doesn't have a job right now, and can not afford his own place, let alone be able to support me and 4 children. Neither of us have any savings.

Like I said, I don't know if any of the above ideas are applicable to you, but try to think outside the box in regards to hardship. I'm sure you'll come up with things that haven't even crossed your mind as potential problems, and an experienced lawyer should also be able to offer a valuable input.

On the positive side, it looks like your case (1 CIMT, years ago, no other record since) should be more straightforward than many other cases, and I have no reason to believe that the CO at the Embassy was fooling around with you when she said you shouldn't have a problem getting the waiver approved.

Good luck and once again, do speak with a good lawyer! It will boost your chances of approval! Thank you again for taking the time to reply!! I look forward to any more or anyone else's input as well!

Wonderful input! Thank you !! I have looked at the actual code myself and read it over and over. I realize I'm no lawyer but that he does indeed appear to fall under that category of exclusion. The sentence was only community service, it was only 1 offense, and it relates to the CIMT. The parts that relate to my spouse are bolded below....

Sec. 212. [8 U.S.C. 1182]

(A) In general.-Any alien-

(2) Criminal and related grounds.-

(A) Conviction of certain crimes.-

(i) In general.-Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of-

(I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense) or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime, or

(II) a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), is inadmissible.

(ii) Exception.-Clause (i)(I) shall not apply to an alien who committed only one crime if-

(I) the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States, or

<a name="132914dd5b0e5593_0-0-0-2341" title="act212a2AiiII"> (II) the maximum penalty possible for the crime of which the alien was convicted (or which the alien admits having committed or of which the acts that the alien admits having committed constituted the essential elements) did not exceed imprisonment for one year and, if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months (regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately executed).

--------------------------------

He had one offense, sentenced only to community service which was complete in the time frame given, was granted a pardon and has had no incidents since (clean police records in both countries he lived in). Does anyone know of any reason WHY he wouldn't be eligible for exclusion? And why wouldn't the embassy tell him he qualified for it if they can see clearly in our Visa application that he qualified?

One other question....

Wouldn't he fall under the Exclusion to the 212(a)(2)(A)(i) Crime of moral turpitude based on:

"

Two exceptions to this ground of exclusion appear in INA 212(a)(2)(A)(ii):

1. The ground does not apply where the alien has committed only one crime of moral turpitude, the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age and the crime was committed (and the alien was released from confinement to prison or a correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than five years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States.
2. The ground does not apply where the alien has committed only one crime of moral turpitude, the maximum penalty possible for the crime for which the alien was convicted or to which the alien admits having committed or of which acts the alien admits having committed which constitute the essential elements of the crime did not exceed one year of imprisonment and, if the alien was convicted of the crime, the alien was not sentenced to imprisonment for a term greater than six months, regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately satisfied."

Well, what I thought would be a smooth Cr-1 process turned into a nightmare. My husband was deemed inadmissible due to his arrest 11 years ago (age 20). We thought having all the papers showing the charge, the community service, the pardon and lack of any future incidents would've given us the "ok" for a VISA but instead, here we are, just dumbfounded (and apparently naive). He was actually given a phone call from the embassy which in itself shocked us. She said that she was very sorry but he was found admissiable under "crime of moral turpitude" and we would need to file a 601 waiver. She told him not to worry, just fill it out with a hardship letter and get it sent back ASAP while they waited for his Holland Police Certificate (which they still hadn't received yet and were waiting on). She told him that the sooner he did that, the sooner he could be united with his wife.

But at the risk of getting hopeful, i immediately started doing research and now I'm in tears. Everything I read indicates our chances are low and that we'd be foolish not to get a lawyer. There is NO WAY we can afford a lawyer and I can barely come up with "extreme" hardship reasons. I am a single mother and because I tried to make good decisions for my children and I, and because my husband still lives in Canada, we really do not rely on each other for financial support (to use finances as a reason). Obviously I was supporting my family alone when I met him and continue to support myself. We comingle finances for the sake of saving for immigration costs and travel costs to visit each other, but I do not rely on him to live, nor vice versa. I have no medical condition, and neither do any of my children. While I do have sole custody of them, and their father has visitation rights, we have no paperwork forbiding me from moving out of the Country (although, he would certainly put up a fight if I tried). I'm not pursuing additional education at this time because my children are still young and in school, so I can not use that either.

So my questions are these:

1) Realistically...1 offense, no fine, no jailtime, probation served and pardoned... 11 years with no other incidents... what are the odds they would "forgive" and approve?

2) What angle of "hardship" should I focus on? As far as rehibilitation for him goes, we only have the lack of further problems. He's just been working ever since. He's not some fancy educated PhD, nor humanitarian volunteer, but rather... he's just an honest, hardworker man who was hot-headed as a young adult and made a stupid mistake. Does the US understand this??

3) Timeframe... any idea at all what this waiver would mean for us in time?? the lady on the phone said 4-12 months, but in our case most likely closer to 4. is this lady just giving us a line? Is all her talk of "just file the waiver soon and we'll get this wrapped up" for real?

I know the hurt and disappointment will fade, but right now I feel sick to my stomach and very depressed. I am angry at the young person my husband was 11 years ago, and frustrated that 1 mistake could cost us our future. I am angry that we might put all this time and energy and money that we dont' have into a process that will only end in failure. And then what??

Thank you for reading and commenting.

So I posted earlier after our interview.. here's quick summary

1) 221 (g) given to us at the interview because they had not received the Netherlands Police Report (which they failed to request after we requested it 3 times) and asked us to submit it (which we can't... they have to request it due to DOS Policy)

2) 221 (g) also to "look into the charges he had in Canada"- we submitted all police records and related court documents (charge, probation order, completion of probation, pardon record... no court records because they expunged his record and now there is nothing to show for it. Police report showed up Clear"

We got an email on August 16th telling us that they have requested the Netherlands police certificate (can take up to 15 days).

I have faxed a letter 2 weeks ago with a letter from the courthouse where his (non-existant) record would be, that stated that they could not find any record at all for him related to the charge that we disclosed and asked them if there was anything else they needed from us and to please look at our file and help us complete the process. We have heard nothing. Emails go unanswered, faxes are unanswered, and I do not know if a phone number to call.

What do I do now?? How do I find out if Holland sent the police record to the embassy? How do I find out if they are done "researching" his charge/pardon? How long is it reasonable to assume we'll be in limbo?? Our interview was August 9th and I am trying very hard to let them do what they need to do without hassling but I feel like it's just sitting somewhere and will continue to sit forever. There is nothing more for them to "get" regarding his charge, and the police report should be there by now if they truly requested it like they said.

They have his passport too by the way.

bumping... anyone?

You can add another update to your list - I just got APPROVED!!!!!

Congrats to all the other approvals also!!

Charity....what happened with yours...why is it pending??

I'm not sure what it's called- AP, AR? it should be quick in theory but I"m not holding my breath either.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/323663-221g-and-other-reply-after-interview/

Ours is somewhat of an odd response and after trying to read more on VJ about this outcome, I thought I'd post on here and get some feedback. I don't know whether or not to be too concerned.

We had our interview today which went good until we got to the interview. first, she asked for the Netherlands police record, and we had to tell them yet again that THEY have to request it and that we've ASKED them request it 3 times. She acted like she knew that (no she did not) and said that we have to have that first. Then she went over his arrest papers (arrested, charged, pleaded guilty and sentenced to community service, served, and his record was expunged. Police record was clear (showed no record) and the courts even said there was no record.

Then printed out the 221(g) with the comment "Please sumbit the police certificate from The Netherlands as soon as you get it" and under "Other" she put: Will do more research into your conviction and will notify you if anything else is needed.

So, it would appear there is nothing we can do at this point right?? The embassy had to request the Netherlands Police Certificate and I assume will receive it there. And the "research" is on her end. Her excuse was "I just want to make sure there is nothing else that we need for this." What sort of explanation is this?? We gave her the charge information, the probation order, the letter saying that he served it in full and the case was closed, and a copy of the pardon. WHAT MORE can she possibly want??

How do I know if the Holland Certificate arrives? I requested for it in APril and they obviously didn't do it, then again in June and they didn't do it, and again 8 days ago and (obviously) it's not here yet.

i hear horror stories on people having to send more information to the embassy and them taking months to open their mail and finishing up cases, but is there any chance ours might wrap up more quickly? We let them keep his passport because he has no plans to visit me until the VISA is done and she seemed fine with us leaving it with them (I was afraid of them having everything and needed the passport and then waiting months to open the passport package and finishing it up. this way it'll stay together i hope??)

Any advice or insight would be appreciated. Just frustrated that we were very meticulous to do what we needed to do on our end, and yet, there's no justification why they haven't requested our police report yet.

August 2- dilenia (Dom. Rep) ?

August 2- CanuckChick (Canada) APPROVED

August 2- Eugenia1984 (Ukraine) ?

August 3-giamimigio (Philippines) *APPROVED

August 3- Engo (Egypt) *AP

August4- StephanieP (Ecuador)

August 4- Kozmo (Philippines)

August 8- Charity 1214 (Canada) PENDING APPROVAL

August 8- Novella (Canada) APPROVED

August 8- joyjohn (Philippines) APPROVED

August 9- KLS2010 (Australia)

August 9 - redsnap (Austria)

August 10- miss191209 (Morocco)

August 15 - Reagan & Liam (Canada-nonVJ)

August 15- lbjr (Canada)

August 15-Halo33 (Jamaica)

August 16- RinTse (Canada)

August 18 - debz (UK)

August 31- Sunanda (Canada)

It's almost time!!! I fly to Canada tomorrow and drive up to Montreal on Sunday. Interview Monday and back home Tuesday! I'll try to keep up with approvals and updates on the list, but if not, you know why! LOL

Good luck to everyone... it's been an amazing and tiring journey and I'm glad we are at the end!!

August 2- dilenia (Dom. Rep) ?

August 2- CanuckChick (Canada) APPROVED

August 2- Eugenia1984 (Ukraine) ?

August 3-giamimigio (Philippines) *APPROVED

August 3- Engo (Egypt) *AP

August4- StephanieP (Ecuador)

August 4- Kozmo (Philippines)

August 8- Charity 1214 (Canada)

August 8- Novella (Canada)

August 8- joyjohn (Philippines)

August 9- KLS2010 (Australia)

August 9 - redsnap (Austria)

August 10- miss191209 (Morocco)

August 15 - Reagan & Liam (Canada-nonVJ)

August 15- lbjr (Canada)

August 15-Halo33 (Jamaica)

August 16- RinTse (Canada)

August 18 - debz (UK)

August 31- Sunanda (Canada)

ok!! it's August 2nd!!!

How did it go Interviewees????

August 2- dilenia (Dom. Rep)

August 2- CanuckChick (Canada)

August 2- Eugenia1984 (Ukraine)

Update please!! Hoping everything went smoothly

Our interview is quickly approaching and I can not get a straight answer from nvc nor an answer from the embassey about whether or not they got my husband's police certificate from the netherlands. We requested it at the NVC stage and they never said yes or no that they received it, but we didn't get any RFE about it and was approved. But we are told to bring the certificate to the interview (form letter instructions of course) so I emailed and asked them if they had received it because we are not allowed to request, THEY have to request it. But when i look closer it says the embassey has to request it, so did NVC request it like I asked in MAY? i went ahead and requested the embassey contact the netherlands and get it IF they did not have it yet (per the dept of state's instructions) but i got the standard form reply that they will reply within 2 weeks. Of course, it's been 2 weeks and no reply.

I'm nervous that we'll get there and they'll say they dont' have it and say that our approval is hinged on getting that certificate and that they have to request it now and wait to receive it before getting his VISA.

Is there a definitive number to call to find out?? please help! It's the last hurdle for us!

Welcome to the new Interviewees!!! I've added everyone to the list... let me know if I missed anyone!!

***August Interviews***

August 2- dilenia (Dom. Rep)

August 2- CanuckChick (Canada)

August 2- Eugenia1984 (Ukraine)

August 3-giamimigio (Philippines)

August 3- Engo (Egypt)

August4- StephanieP (Ecuador)

August 4- Kozmo (Philippines)

August 8- Charity 1214 (Canada)

August 8- Novella (Canada)

August 8- joyjohn (Philippines)

August 9- KLS2010 (Australia)

August 10- miss191209 (Morocco)

August 15 - Reagan & Liam (Canada-nonVJ)

August 15- lbjr (Canada)

August 15-Halo33 (Jamaica)

August 16- RinTse (Canada)

August 31- Sunanda (Canada)

Great way to start the month off!! Good luck to all!! You all deserve it!

***August Interviews***

August 3-giamimigio (Philippines)

August 3- Engo (Egypt)

August4- StephanieP (Ecuador)

August 8- Charity 1214 (Canada)

August 8- Novella (Canada)

August 8- joyjohn (Philippines)

August 10- miss191209 (Morocco)

August 15 - Reagan & Liam (Canada-nonVJ)

August 15- lbjr (Canada)

August 16- RinTse (Canada)

GOT OUR INTERVIEW TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AUGUST 8!!!! Time for a timeline!!

***August Interviews***

August 3-giamimigio (Philippines)

August 8- Charity 1214 (Canada)

August 8- Novella (Canada)

August 8- joyjohn (Philippines)

August 15 - Reagan & Liam (Canada-nonVJ)