Ali G.

Unless a ban is carried out on a federal level it's utterly pointless. DC had a ban gun, so they just purchased the guns in MD or VA. No rocket science.

Too bad these kids were not armed hey. Ask slim, that would have prevented all of this.

How many U.S. troops are there in Iraq and Afghanistan?

What is the population of Chicago?

I'll put it into perspective: 255 people were killed in AUS; in an entire year; out of 22,000,000 people.

Why don't you think about it before you type? Workplace audits take place across the country all the time. Unauthorized individuals are found an detained all the time. All that happens. Problem is, the businesses get away with a slap on the wrist and continue on their merry way. The prohibitive fines aren't there. Put in place an enforcement mechanism that puts businesses out of business and managers into jail if they are found to have hired unauthorized workers and those willing to take this unreasonable risk will be very few and far between right quick.

I can count on one hand how many of those types of busts have occurred over five years of being here. I spent three weeks in AUS and read about two raids on small businesses while I was there. Illegal immigration is not even 1/100,000th the problem it is here.

Same story with terrorism or crime. We want to catch the terrorist buuuut you are not allowed to use any proactive measure.

Starve them? I thought the idea was that taking away the economic incentive to come would leave them put where they are.

Now that I think of it, even a $1 million fine is pointless as the authorities have no way to know who is illegal, to get the much needed warrant. These fines work overseas as they are able to conduct random audits, without a warrant, of a business. The United States is just too large and spread out to assume ICE agents can be everywhere. Let alone have the resources to be able to carry out investigations to build a case to get a warrant.

It's why gangs flourish here; it why organized crime flourishes; it's why crime cannot be proactively prevented and why illegal immigration grows daily.

fixed that for you...

This attitude is the problem with some many things in this country. It's why the country is regressing.

For example, police try to proactively monitor an area in the ghetto known for its daily homicides. Oh no, its unconstitutional. If the freagin Constitution does not protect the country's sovereignty or a person's actual life, then what does it protect? Oh wait, someone's right to sell copies of grotesque animal cruelty.

It doesn't actually matter what is in the bill as the rebuttals will be they same; as they are with any such discussion involving proactive law enforcement or illegal aliens.

Cut half of these responses and keep them for a discussion three years down the track. It will have the same rebuttals.

These guys so-called outrage is based on horeshit idealism. They realistically have no valid argument against these laws apart from possibly being inconvenienced. They don't even know half the story and assume a state simply enacted a law, without thinking it through, or how they will accurately verify peoples ID.

That explains your confusion on the issue. It's a sad, sad place. I could not see myself moving that way.

Realistically which part of America is not. My wife and I were looking at relocating somewhere else prior to moving to AUS and nothing really caught my eye. Excluding NYC or Chicago, which other city has over 3 million people and a thriving city that is not a ghetto. The rest are all little, pipsqueaks with a dead downtown and most living in the boring burbs.

Walmart is hiring across the board. The business model seems to be working.

You are right. Sell cheap ####### to the idiots that buy it.

The warrant is for the arrest of the employer. The illegals are the evidence.

So how do they know they are illegals since they cannot ask about their status?

You have to be one of these anti-water boarding liberals too right? AKA We want you to catch the terrorist but you are not allowed to use any proactive tools to find them.

How many have you had to come to the conclusion that I oppose any form of pro-active law enforcement?

The laws are already on the books to allow ICE to enter the workplace for a raid. They have to have probable cause and they have to get a warrant. For it to be effective there needs to be more of them and the fines and penalties need ratcheted up.

You get dumber with every subsequent post Ronald. How the #### are they doing to get a warrant if they have no way of knowing who is illegal?

No, because I might find myself in a bind as the result of any lawful contact with AZ's agencies since I won't be in any position to prove my citizenship to them. Unless, of course, I pretend forthwith that whenever I travel to AZ, I actually undertake a trip overseas and pack my passport. Which, however, according to the 4th amendment of the Constitution the state of AZ has no right to require of me.

Don't break any law and then they won't have any probably cause. End of story.

The FEDERAL government should fine the living $hit out of employers who hire illegal entrants. Frequently. And with gusto.

How should they catch them? You oppose any form of proactive law enforcement. Money says you would cry murder on any random raid of their books or sites.

What? My state issued ID says nothing about my status. Won't be good enough for the boyz in AZ. That's fcuked up and infringes on my right to move freely about the country. Why should I have to meet the same documentary burden for overseas travel if all I want to do is live it up in Phoenix for a few days?

How does it infringe your right? Can you no longer travel freely in AZ?

Oh FFS. Do you really think those highly trained local law enforcement officers in Arizona would know the difference between a forged green card and an authentic one? Most US citizens have never seen one!

Anything can be forged.

let's get to the bottom of your opinion. What exactly do you recommend the state do to tackle their huge illegal alien problem? What do you recommend the country does?

With that, they put an undue burden on residents of other states of this nation - including me. I am entitled to oppose their blatant infringement on my right to freely move about the country with my state issued ID.

Don't freagin go there. It's not bloody rocket science.

Well, that's part of the debate around immigration. Do I think it makes a lot of sense to only require a state ID (can still be obtained w/o proving status) and a SSC that's known to be easily reproduced? No. Do I think we need a better ID system that proves one's status? Sure. The AZ law we're discussing here does neither, however.

AZ law works with what it has now. They don't have time to wait for the rest of the country to decide we need to change the SSC and require more nothing more than it and a drivers license.

I only mentioned a correlation between profiling in employment and potential profiling in Arizona because (in my opinion) they are both based upon either how a person looks or how they sound. Asking a person to "prove" something based on either of these qualifiers IS profiling, which can lead to discrimination.

So now it's profiling to ask someone to verify their work eligibility status. I don't care about the incompetent federal law. Every single first world country usually requires a company check employment eligibility. Certainly not using some pathetic SSC that even a 3 year old can fake.

People like you is why terrorist were able to walk all over the country unnoticed prior to 9/11.

it's profiling, it's profiling.

No, they cannot. They can ask you only to document your eligibility to work in the country. If you have a DL and an unrestricted SSC, that's all you have to show them to prove your eligibility to work. They cannot - by law - ask for any additional documentation.

Anyone endorsing that ridiculous law, without a doubt proves that they are not interested in clamping down on illegal aliens. Why else would anyone continue to advocate that it be illegal for an employer to require status? Ronald on here [no names] talks about the fourth amend and the first world, yet in reality I have had to show my passport whenever I been hired in an AUS company.

No problem there. Put a notation on all driver's licenses as to the status of the holder of that license, and I won't complain either. At the end of the day, I am opposed to being burdened with essentially a requirement to obtain and carry a passport for interstate travel. That's what this AZ clusterfcuk of a law boils down to.

Okay so we can at least agree that all government services should require the verification of residence or citizenship, as is the case in pretty much ever single other first world country. Furthermore, every employer should be required to use e-verify and conduct a check of three forms of federal ID when hiring someone, as is also the case in pretty much ever single other first world country.

The problem is that at present absolutely nothing is being checked anywhere. The SSC is absolutely pointless and can be forged by a three year old on their crayola board. Actually, the SSC is the first thing that should have been converted to a 2010 Biometric grade card.

You guys don't want police checking people but lets face it, it's not as if we are doing anything else like the aforementioned SSC upgrade.

Wouldn't it make sense to wait until these standards are in place before passing laws like this?

no comment

Bit of a brainfart here, bro. Since when does AZ get to dictate what ID other states issue and what information it does and doesn't contain?

Actually the enhanced ID is linked to a federal database and uses the same security as obtaining a passport.

The only way that would work is if the entire country adopted a single, centralized standard for driver's licenses.

That was supposed to happen with all drivers licenses anyway.

The enhanced ID card is just an additional feature which allows the license to be used as a passport between Mexico and Canada.

A Green Card proves immigrant status. A driver's license does not.

Guys guys guys. The solution is right here. All Arizona needs to do is mandate what is know as an enhanced drivers license for citizens, something already used by numerous northern states. Problem bloody solved, as it has your status. If someone does not drive they can get a similar State Id card.

Citizens are covered and as it stands all LPR have to carry their green-card anyway.

How about asking for status when applying for government services? Or do you guys have a problem with that too?