Aero and Dero

Touched. Finally.

Good luck, kizza. <3

I should note, ironically, for people who the border had a record of being denied entry but not of being granted entry that same day, we also flew (on those passports which allegedly were never swiped until I asked them to rectify their error) two days later to see my parents for Christmas. How safe does that make you feel?

I don't like it when the CBP asks me if the car I am driving is mine, as if there's no possible way a woman my age would be driving the car I have. I don't appreciate it when CBP agents comment on the length of mine and my fiance's time together (over eight years -- and why aren't we married), and make snide and/or rude thoughts thereof. It's not warranted. And yet I keep my mouth shut, a thin smile on my face and move on. I particularly don't like being lied to, esp. when if they aren't lying, it means the CBP's computer systems are that wretched: really, there's no record of my visit out of the country and my return trip two weeks ago? Isn't that why you're asking me when I was in Canada last? To test to see if what I say measures up with what you see? And you're telling me that your computers somehow didn't log this visit? It's better to think they're lying, than to think that my country's security is really that variable.

The problem is that you don't see it from THEIR side. You have to remember that there are illegal immigrants slipping through the cracks every day...and the border guards are trained to do their best to ask questions that will expose potential illegals. Remember, as Trailmix often cites, the guards at each POE are trained to assume that anyone crossing into the U.S.A. is a potential illegal immigrant. And yes, you ARE going into a foreign country, no matter how similar the U.S. is to Canada in most ways. I've often been asked if the car I'm driving across the border is my car. It's routine...and NOT a judgment call on you or the kind of car you're driving. It's also VERY understandable that they'd ask you why you've been engaged for eight years and never married. It's not exactly a common occurrence, and I'm sure you get comments from MANY people on that...not just border guards. Of course THEY know how long you've been out of the country...but they want to make sure YOU know...that YOU are who you claim to be. That's the whole point.

Honestly...think about this from a border guard perspective. Sure, there are some jerks at POE, but you have to think of them as police officers. It's exceedingly rare that they'll ask anything that doesn't pertain to the security of the country.

So when I read a story like this one, and I read accounts of the driver angrily getting out of his car because the border guards are about to search it...I can't help but think, "What an idiot he was!" They have jurisdiction in that area, and by choosing to be in a foreign country, you have to be willing to accept that country's policy of security checks...or else don't go in the first place!

I do see their side. I do nothing but play devil's advocate at work. I understand it's hard. But this is also the same border who let four truckloads of hazardous material to make a uranium bomb, with deliberately and very poorly forged documents just cross into the United States. It was a random inspection of our country's borders, particularly the Peach Arch and Pacific Crossing ones, to see how 'safe' they are done by the FBI.

But you should be allowed to ask why you're being detained. Even murderers have rights in this country: Miranda rights, lawyers present, asking why you're being held and what proof there is. For some reason, these rights are apparently suspended at the border where, I admit, I am totally afraid to demand my actual rights as a US citizen for fear that there will be repercussions later.

You also misunderstood my anecdote. A bit more backstory: My fiance and I were detained at the border last Christmas (after 7 years of no problems), and held for 8 hours. We were not allowed to go to the bathroom, eat, drink, do anything. I was told to sit on a bench and not move. He was ultimately detained because the officer sitting out in the carport decided that my fiance was living in the United States illegally and had an illegal job and/or was going to school in the US illegally. Never mind our recorded history of 2-3 day visits, with the occasional 1-2 week long visits here and there. He was denied entry, and the CBP made sure to let me know I could totally ditch my fiance and drive back into the country without him -- except the whole thing where I was his ride (so this is where I can believe they just dumped Peter Watts across the border without his belongings or car to fend for himself). We went back up, came back with proof of his vast ties to Canada (mortgage, school schedule, school payments, bills) and were allowed to cross that same day, 3 hours later. They scanned our passports, went through our documentation and we were in Seattle in 2.5 hours.

It was on subsequent visits for me, that I was detained every single time returning into the country. They refused to tell me why, except that this was random and routine. I believed them the first time. Not so much the next two times, and I finally got the courage to demand to speak to a supervisor. Turns out, it wasn't random and it wasn't routine. According to the supervisor, the Pacific Crossing border had records that my fiance was denied entry, but had not kept records that either of us returned to the US the same day. Somehow, that magically wasn't recorded. The supervisor apologized for the oversight, went back, did his magic, and I've never been stopped since (knock on wood). I don't know what in God's name made him /believe/ me without documented proof that we'd returned to the US that same day, except possibly that, y'know, he was probably lying to me about the return not being recorded. I've never seen them just take someone on their word like that.

I know why they ask me when the last time I visited was. Because they have the records right there. But, I don't appreciate being lied to when it's a very obvious lie. I also realize it's routine to ask if the car I am driving is mine. What isn't routine is the snide expressions on some (not all) of the agents faces. As if I shouldn't be able to afford the car I have.

And we haven't been engaged for 8 years. We've been dating for 8 years. We've only been engaged for four months.

He's pretty famous among the scifi crowd, and just as American literature majors here don't really review authors like Mercedes Lackey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Terry Brooks, or Piers Anthony, I doubt having a degree in Canadian literature makes you the end all be all of any kind of writing going on in Canada. Not knowing that's not what makes you ignorant. Gay, indeed.

Wow...you're defending him like he's a friend of yours!

Honestly, even with the links you just provided (scratch that: especially with the links you just provided), he looks both guilty and stupid. Border patrol has the right to inspect any car in that area. He was in their country, he obviously got uppity and self-righteous, angry that he was being searched...which served only to make the guards suspicious.

One can be as philosophical as one wants about defying authority, but when it comes right down to it, if you're not ready, willing and able to pay the consequences for resisting authority, don't do it in the first place. I think most children know that it's stupid to get out of one's vehicle at the border, unless instructed to do so. Likewise, most children know that getting angry in such a situation will only serve to make the consequences graver.

I'm all for civil liberties, but unless I hear some compelling evidence otherwise, it looks like he got what he deserved.

If you actually could read and could pay attention to what's being said or not said, you'll notice that I haven't fallen on either side of whether he's right or wrong. Merely pointed people to this incident in case they might be interested, distilled the tl;dr news in point form for people who didn't want to read the articles, and expressed a hope.

As for defending him? No. Calling literature you're not interested in gay is just homophobic and ignorant, something which someone who seems to try to present herself as intellectually superior on the subject of just about everything like thetreble does, might not want to appear as. But hey, I guess just cause I have a degree in computer science, I must know every single programming language in the world, just like how thetreble has a Canadian literature degree and must know every single Canadian author out there. Anyone else out there that's majored in something in college and knows absolutely everything about that subject?

I'm all for ragging on the guy if you think he's /wrong/, but dude, seriously? Dissing the guy for not being someone you know, so of course he must not be well-known? And dissing a guy for writing books that you think are gay? Really? That's the non-ignorant way to go? Awesome.

On the other hand? I'm in the camp, whether he's right or wrong, that something comes out of this. I do think they picked a person to assault, whether it was warranted or not, poorly and as someone quoted him earlier, he doesn't seem like one to just go quietly into the night. I hope there's more oversight that stems from this, whether he's found guilty or innnocent and that the media coverage of something like this bodes better for all of us in any of our travels across the border. I hope that because one guy feels he can be an asshat at the border, it'll open up doors where it's not only ok, but it's expected that you are allowed to ask to know why you are being detained. I want more government oversight of the CBP and more clearly delineated regulations on what is acceptable or not. Last I heard, I didn't think civil liberties were suspended at the border, and if you're detained, you should be able to ask why and get some sort of answer. Even a: This is routine. Or: That's classified information.

I don't think people who cross the border should be automatically treated as criminals and vagrants. I don't like it when the CBP asks me if the car I am driving is mine, as if there's no possible way a woman my age would be driving the car I have. I don't appreciate it when CBP agents comment on the length of mine and my fiance's time together (over eight years -- and why aren't we married), and make snide and/or rude thoughts thereof. It's not warranted. And yet I keep my mouth shut, a thin smile on my face and move on. I particularly don't like being lied to, esp. when if they aren't lying, it means the CBP's computer systems are that wretched: really, there's no record of my visit out of the country and my return trip two weeks ago? Isn't that why you're asking me when I was in Canada last? To test to see if what I say measures up with what you see? And you're telling me that your computers somehow didn't log this visit? It's better to think they're lying, than to think that my country's security is really that variable.

So, do I think he's in the right? I don't know. Am I donating money to his cause? No. Why not? Because I don't know the whole story, but what I'm reading so far, unfortunately, jives with my perception of the border. Am I going to paint him negatively, just cause there's no 'real' proof. No. Why? Because things like the strip searches of single female occupant vehicles at the Peach Arch, and subsequent rapes of a few of those girls by a few border agents warranted a several pages buried story in the Seattle Times four years ago. Because things sometimes never make the big news media outlets or the "more reputable" sources, and even when they do, they're put out with the weekend trash.

In the end, it's interesting, whether he's famous or not (whether thetreble knows who he is or not). But because he's famous, it gives me a stupid bit of hope that the media coverage might make more people aware of the border issues, both large and small, and bring some, even a miniscule, amount of change.

He's pretty famous among the scifi crowd, and just as American literature majors here don't really review authors like Mercedes Lackey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Terry Brooks, or Piers Anthony, I doubt having a degree in Canadian literature makes you the end all be all of any kind of writing going on in Canada. Not knowing that's not what makes you ignorant. Gay, indeed.

If you're into gaming, he's one of the original storywriters for Homeworld 2.

Other, non-blog articles:

Gannet-based The Times Herald of Port Huron: http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/2009...-assault-charge

The Associated Press: http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianp...zWJvKFFWIEjpv6Q

Canada.com: http://www.canada.com/Writer+says+roughed+...4094/story.html

I have never heard of being stopped by the US border guards when entering Canada.

So no one one knows what actually happened, just that he was beaten up and now is facing jail time? Did he commit a crime or ...?

From what I read of the articles, the basic timeline seems to be this.

* He entered the US to help his friends move to Nebraska.

* He drove up in a rented car and was at the Canadian border ready to cross.

* Right before he could reach Canadian customs, in the no man's land area where the CBP has jurisdiction over local police, the CBP swarmed his car.

* He got out and asked as to the nature of their search. They told him to get back in the car, but refused to answer his question, so he asked again.

* That's when he alleges they punched him, pepper-sprayed him, kicked the ####### out of him, and then threw him into a detainment cell, and then later into a prison cell. The CBP has no jurisdiction, as far as I know, to detain someone for that long? So the local police charged him with assaulting a federal officer.

* He posted bail and they put him across the border without his car, no jacket, and without his belongings in the middle of an Ontario storm.

But clearly, this is one-sided and while I don't think Peter Watts seems like the type of man to lie, they might have had a reason to search his car. Maybe some kind of tip or something. Who knows. Still, it doesn't excuse what happened /after/ they swarmed his car, including not telling him what was wrong.

Interesting and unfortunately not all that surprising.

The fact that it's not surprising is a sad thing. But I think (hope?) they realized they picked the wrong person to do this to. Not because he's famous, but because he is famous and isn't going to go quietly into the night about this.

I hope, despite how unfortunate this is, something good in the way of government oversight might come from it. It might possibly turn into a (mild) international incident?

Not much to say other than share the links and note that they swarmed his car as he was leaving the United States.

Of course, no oen knows the full story, but I thought people might be interested.

http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/12/11/help...ut-peter-watts/

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/011966.html

Now that it's closer to when we might get approved, I'm checking every day, lurking but not posting, but I had to share this tidbit.

At around 3:00PM Pacific, I received a text today and my phone was in my back pocket so my butt vibrated with it. I jumped up, panicked and felt my heart lurch up into my throat all excited. Only to find out it was my sister texting to ask about a UPS delivery. Now, I'm still a little shakey (I didn't realize just how much this was stressing me out until this moment).

But for a few seconds, I thought maaaaaaaaaaaybe. Oh well!

OMG. Such fantastic news. Congratulations! Maybe now they've moved on to September for good... one can hope.

For the people who got notified via text at 7:30ish or so, what timezone are you guys in?

Late last week, I was like 134.

Now I'm 137, cause, I am guessing, new people came and put new timelines in that moved me back. I quit checking the site very often since the initial week of NOA1 (it was better for my sanity), but now...

Usually, I am cool with this whole timeline thing, but as that little probable window gets closer, and the less we move at all (seriously, CSC? Nothing since the 12th? SRSLY?), I am starting to turn into those constant F5-ers (reloading the page).

Why are we not moving? >.<

I declared Canadian coca cola coming back into the US. Real sugar, mmm.

Generally, I err on the side of caution and declare anything I've bought. Which, one time, included those press on/sticky bras. The guy blinked and laughed and said his wife loves them and let me go on.

So, it's a long way out, we don't even have our NOA2 yet, but I was wondering if there was anything preventing me from driving him across the border when/if he gets his visa? Or does he have to cross on his own? Most of the stories I've read seems to show a beneficiary coming down alone.

We don't plan on moving his car down here, it's old and needs to be replaced anyway, and he doesn't actually own many material things other than clothing and some athletic gear, and his home in Vancouver (but obviously we can't move that ).

Wow. I am totally impressed. After Vermont was so slow for so long, now the CSC is being left in the dust.

Congratulations to you all. I wish ours was just as quick.

There are a few Canadian VJer's that were detained at the border. Some had to go back and get more evidence of ties to Canada, some were fingerprinted, photographed, and given a one year ban. I've yet to hear of a 6 month. Always tell the truth when crossing, and if you've started the process, having a copy of your NOA2, or any other visa process documentation in addition to regular evidence of ties to Canada, bring it.

Something must be in the wind. Several VJer's coming from Canada in into the U.S. while visiting have faced extra scrutiny lately it seems and tons have been pulled into secondary when they usually haven't been.

Best of luck in further crossings! Remember, decisions made by Border officials are discretionary.

it really puzzles me ... I dont understand why someone would cheat and stay there illegally while involved in the visa process already. Maybe Im just naive.

But thank you for the info.

I have been fingerprinted and photographed, and frisked - one officer was even trying hard to get me to admit my accent was something else than french(!?!). They never specified how long I would be banned for. Just said I would need a visa to enter from now on.

They didn't tell Derrick how long he'd be banned for, but we 'figured it out' after he tried to come a few more times and a 'nicer' CBP agent in April (he got denied in December) told him that he probably would not be able to enter the country until June.

HERE is the best information on this subject on VJ - entry to the US is always up to the individual CBP's interpretation of course and there is no 'you will, you shall, you must' ruling to state otherwise.

Thank you for being helpful. So this does mean it's not /government/ policy that everyone undergoing the visa process is automatically denied entry. Which means the border agent lied or doesn't know better himself.

He's already taken into secondary every time he visits anyway to prove his ties to Canada (we've been doing this border crossing thing for 8 years now), so theoretically, it's no different and since they allowed him into the country he doesn't have another 'denied entry' stamp on his record, which means no six month ban. Hopefully.

Is that what happens when you are denied entry, you get a 6-month ban?

In my experience? Yes. They'll make a few exceptions during the six months, but will deny you entry after detaining you for 2-3 hours during the six months after the first rejection.

HERE is the best information on this subject on VJ - entry to the US is always up to the individual CBP's interpretation of course and there is no 'you will, you shall, you must' ruling to state otherwise.

Thank you for being helpful. So this does mean it's not /government/ policy that everyone undergoing the visa process is automatically denied entry. Which means the border agent lied or doesn't know better himself.

He's already taken into secondary every time he visits anyway to prove his ties to Canada (we've been doing this border crossing thing for 8 years now), so theoretically, it's no different and since they allowed him into the country he doesn't have another 'denied entry' stamp on his record, which means no six month ban. Hopefully.

I searched the forum and only found one relevant topic, so maybe my search terms were wrong.

My Canadian fiance was just detained at the border (driving) for 3 hours, because the border agent said that while in the process of filing for a K1 visa, you are automatically denied entry into the United States, but they let him through this one time.

From the little I've read on this forum, this seems patently false as long as you can prove your ties to return to Canada. Can anyone point me to official documentation that states this one way or the other?

Since they let him through obviously he wasn't categorically denied.

Obviously. Which is why I think this is bullshit, but it'd be nice to be able to find some kind of official information somewhere, print it out, and have him carry it with him so he won't get denied again.

I searched the forum and only found one relevant topic, so maybe my search terms were wrong.

My Canadian fiance was just detained at the border (driving) for 3 hours, because the border agent said that while in the process of filing for a K1 visa, you are automatically denied entry into the United States, but they let him through this one time.

From the little I've read on this forum, this seems patently false as long as you can prove your ties to return to Canada. Can anyone point me to official documentation that states this one way or the other?

I do love the amount of micro breweries here. I enjoy going on beer tours with my husband and trying new ones, and I am always impressed with the selection. Even though back home people seem to think Americans drink piss. They usually say this while holding a bottle of coors too - something that always kind of makes me chuckle.

Which is funny, cause I think most people where I am think Canadians drink piss. XD But I live in an area surrounded by a ton of microbreweries.

I made pad thai from scratch last night for the first time. ^^ I was quite proud of myself.

Obviously, as a USC, I've never had to move from Canada to the US. But I had to move from the east coast to the west coast in efforts to be closer to my, at the time, boyfriend. In my first year here, I was incredibly sad, and ended up crying almost every night. I missed my family (they were everything to me) and I missed the brands I was used to, the stores I was used to, and the people I was used to. And not only had I moved, but it was a move so we could see each other on weekends, so during the week, I had just me, myself, and I and my thoughts. I had friends, but while friends are great, for the most part, they have their own lives to contend with. Somehow, it was always worse when I was sick, esp. with no mommy around to take care of me.

There were a lot of times in that first year I moved out to the west coast to be closer that I resented him. He had his family still, in fact his mom still cooked for him, did his laundry, and cleaned up after him. Unlike me, he never went away to college and didn't seem to realize just how good he had it, cause he's never not had it. There was definitely the sense of 'I gave up so much so we could be closer' but I think I only said it once, when I randomly burst into tears in the middle of the Cheesecake Factory on one of our weekends together. I was generally careful about saying it because, with it, came also the realization that I can't live my entire life based on him and to blame him for a choice I made wasn't fair, but that doesn't mean I didn't feel it a lot.

Things got a lot better after that, clearly. I adjusted. But five years later (keeping in mind this is 'just a move' from across the country), I still get baffled as to why certain brands aren't carried here. Thank goodness for the internet and online ordering. And sometime in the last five years, my family isn't really my family anymore as much as he is my family and all the little stuff stopped mattering as much. I still love my parents and siblings, but they stopped being my priority and were replaced by him.

While most of the reason for him moving to the US is financially-based (I own my house outright with no mortgage payments or loans, he owns his house with his parents with a hefty loan/he'd make more money here in his field than in Canada), a small part of it, I admit, is because I don't think I could handle uprooting my life, yet again, for him, while he would continue to live comfortably surrounded by everything he's grown up with. So while it's not the same as a Canada to US move, I feel it's fairly similar moving cross-country at least in sentiment.

I'm a little more dubious myself of those quick turn arounds. Most of them are at VSC, and only one at CSC (where I filed) and it wasn't a K-1 filing as far as I could tell. I think it gives a lot of false hope and I'd rather be glass is half empty right now than half full. Like someone said above. It's stressful and tiring being so gungho so early.

It makes more sense to attribute the quick turn around of some August filers to VSC trying to pad their numbers, because there's whole lot of people before the lucky ones in March to July that don't seem to have been touched.

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but y'know... ^^;

Apple Cider Doughnut Recipe: http://whatbearseat.spunsilk.net/?p=48

Lobster for dinner.

Homemade apple cider doughnuts for dessert.