ohnodidit

Hi, I just wanted to introduce myself to the fellow Moroccan MENA members!

Name: Eden

Where you are from: Atlanta, GA

SO's name: Said

Where they are from: Casablanca

Anything else you want to add: I will tell everyone our story.....Said and I met in Italy, this past April. I was on vacation in Italy with my sister, turns out that two days into our vacation she broke her ankle in three places and spent her Italian vacation in the Italian hospital for two weeks....SOO the vacation became mine and allll mine, I was essentially in Italy alone! On my 9th day there I spent the day in Florence and was on my way back home to Vicenza, Italy which is about an hour from Venice. I had to change trains in Padova, Italy and while I was waiting for my next train to arrive I decided to have a fight with a vending machine LOL ( you have to have a PhD to work the vending machines in Italy). Anyway I was trying to get a diet coke when a guy passed behind me ( I honestly did not even notice him!) and asked me if I spoke Italian. This had actually happened several times before by other people over the last few days so I gave my typical response and barely looked up.........No, I do not speak Italian, I speak English....well I am not sure he heard me because he asked again, this time I turned around and said No, I speak English.....he was walking away but his head was turned back around looking at me for my response, I again said No, I speak English.......he turned around and immediately came back to me and then started asking everyone that passed us by did they speak English, I was thinking THIS GUY has got something REALLY important to say to me because he is going to a lot of trouble to talk to me...anyway after assuming my diet coke, I started walking and Said was with me ( I had no idea what his name was then!) towards my platform and he asked me where I was going and I said Vicenza ( I do understand Italian, just do not speak it well!) anyway he said that was where he was going, we had a discussion about which platform to go to and then we waited together for the train. In the meantime he did find someone that spoke English and agreed to translate for us! So, the three of us (actually it was 5 , we acquired a couple of other people in the quest for a translator LOL!) rode the train and this nice gentleman translated for Said and I all the way back to Vicenza about 25 minutes or so.....anyway he was full of questions, wanted to know if I was married, where I was from, why I was in Italy etc.....anyway at the end he wanted my phone number, which I did not have so I asked for his and he obliged, said he wanted to see me again! So, the next day I worked up the nerve and called him...even tho we could not really talk, he knew it was me and had someone call me back that could translate and we set up a "date" for the next day. So, that Saturday I met him in Padova and we spent the day in the piazza at the market and then just sitting and talking with our Italian/English dictionaries and started to get to know each other. To make a long story short we would up spending the next four days together and it was fabulous, he was such a gentleman and made me dinner two nights and carried all my shopping bags around and just generally doted (sp?) on me. I am not sure I have ever felt so spoiled by a man, ever. Saying goodbye the first time was very difficult and I for sure thought my Italian romance was over! Anyway, not the case....LOL, infact I just got back on the 19th from spending another two weeks in Italy and I am still crazy about him and he me, in fact I really did think he was crazy until I realized this is a "Moroccan" thing because he was telling me from about 30 seconds after we met that he wanted to marry me....he has not let up on that and I still think he may have a screw loose LOL! Anyway, I am going to Morocco in January to meet the rest of his family, he does have some in Italy and I met them, this go round and I am excited to meet his rather large crew he is one of 7 and I am hoping to be there about a month with him. Then because he has residency in Italy and we are hoping his greencard gets renewed in Italy ( it just expired ) he will file for a tourist visa in November and come back with me in Feb for a little while, obviously this is what we are hoping and the embassy in Milan has indicated he has a better than average chance coming from Italy to actually GET a tourist visa ( we will see)........if not I guess I am headed back to Italy and we will then look at doing the fiance visa........we are JUST at the beginning of this long journey but I am pretty darn sure he is worth it! I am still in shock actually, neither of us were looking for anyone and so far it has worked, religious differences, cultural differences, distance and all so far, we could not be happier...........well we could if we were together! THAT is the worst IMO!

I'm not surprised to find out he had a valid permesso. When you said he was traveling in and out without one, that sounded impossible.

As for the tourist visa, I don't have any experience with that, but what they said at the embassy in Milan sounds promising.

For the fiance visa, from what I understand, the consulate in Italy will process immigrant visas for legal residents. You will have to contact the consulate in Naples to verify, but I don't believe he has to be a citizen. As long as he has a valid permesso, he should be able to file through Naples.

My husband also had a permesso di soggiorno in Italy, but was not able to renew it once it expired. Therefore he had to return to Morocco and we did the visa process from there.

Thanks Jenn I was hoping you would reply and I know there is someone else out there that had a similar situation!

I was RELIEVED to say the least to find out that he had been legal, I am thinking (hoping) some of this will be easier now because he is coming from Italy. He has had it renewed once already and is hoping they now give him a permanent permesso since he has by Italian standards abided by their regulations and he also has family there with permanent permesso's so he is HOPING that even though they have cracked down, he has been there long enough to take that into consideration and his attorney seems to think it will all work out. So, we are thinking now he will go ahead and apply for the tourist visa and see what happens.......we THINK he has enough ties and $$$ in Italy to show he will go back and then apply for the fiance visa from there, I think I am also understanding that yes, since he has been living there and has residency he will apply and it be processed via Italy and not Morocco, which just makes me soooooo happy I cannot even tell you! I am going to send him back to Embassy to verify and I am going to contact Naples but I am pretty sure if he gets approved again in October we will be in the clear for both and this nightmare visa thing just got much easier, I hope!!!!!!

Hi All,

I need to go and post and introduce Said and myself on the MENA board, but I have posted our story somewhere I know : )

Anyway, I have found out more about Said's situation in Italy......he is in fact, legal (well was) in Italy. He had his permesso di sioggorno until July when it expired. He has applied to renew it and should know in October, he went to try and expedite things with his lawyer last week but August is vacation month in Italy so of course he was not around and is not due back until this week.

Here are my questions....Said went to the US Embassy in Milan a month or so ago and they told him it would be easier for him to get a tourist visa from Italy because he would be filing from Italy and not Moroc, not a guarantee but much more likely they would consider it. Has anyone in similar situations in Italy had any success with tourist visa or it is a waste of money even from there.....

Also, once we decide to pursue the fiance visa which will likely be next year sometime does he file from Italy or Moroc, he will not have citizenship in Italy only residency.......

Thanks again ladies (and gents)

Ohno

Hey ladies...

This is what grinds my gears...why are these women posting pics and vids of homes and saying "this is the house I paid for..."? Really, he forced you to give up your paycheck to pay for a home in Morocco? What kind of a brain dead ding dong are you if your husband can bully you into buying his family a home that you're not going to get any use out of? They never heard of the word "no"? Don't blindly hand over all your hard earned dough then get on a FB group and biitch about it. You're the dumbass who handed it over. Duh.

Oh hai everybody...

Quick Hijack

Yo girlie!!!! I sure have missed talking to ya! How's the "mister"?

Okay, back to topic. I've volunteered for many years now with a Victims Assistance Group and I've seen all kinds of abuse inflicted upon mostly women. So ABSOLUTELY I can understand the hurt that these women feel from being taken advantage of. But if someone reads into my posts that I put ALL the blame on these women, then you aren't paying attention to what I'm saying. As with MOST abusive relationships, a person (man or woman) HAS a choice to say NO MORE! When a person hits you or hurts you, you DO have the choice to say NO MORE! The path may be difficult but you DO have a choice to raise yourself up out of that situation. I think so many people stay in these relationships because it's what they "know" and having to change to something unknown is scary. But you know what.....everything you want in life is on the other side of fear!

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF US has said that these snakes that scam women aren't responsible for their actions...we are just saying at least own up to the choices that GOT them into that situation.

Hey Ya'll

I am new to the MENA board actually VJ in general, you guys are making me paranoid about Said, my SO. We met in Italy in April and I have just been back to see him for a second time, just got back. He has NEVER pressured me once about a visa, ever, in fact we have discussed me moving to Italy the ONLY thing he has pressured me about is coming to Morocco to meet his fam in Jan! But for those of us involved in new relations with Moroccan men what would some of the red flags be??? Just curious, I am not totally FREAKED out, just a little LOL!

That's the thing. There is a list of red flags to look for, but it just doesn't always hold true that it is GC fraud. For instance, I am considerably older than my husband. Not I would venture to say that more than likely the majority of these would be GC fraud. My husband has had his 10 year GC for quite some time now and is still around. So the red flags are just that. Flags to watch, but don't make final decisions based on them. I would think if he was pushing to come to the US you might take note. I personally think if the guy is crying poverty, and asks for you to send him money I would be very concerned. Also if he doesn't make efforts to spend time online with you I would be concerned as well.

If he is pushing you to meet his family and friends this is typically a good thing. Many looking for a GC will try to hide you from friends and family. But then again I wouldn't bet 100% on this either. He might just be really good.

Bottom line is that you give him lots of rope. If he is using you he will more than likely hang himself. Take your time on this. Just wait and see. There is no need to rush into anything. And if it is meant to last it will.

One other note, this visa process is extremely time consuming and draining. If you have any doubts whatsoever in your relationship I think this process can cause more doubts and concerns than you had previously. Make sure you are prepared. It isn't for the weak of heart.

Anyone else have some tips for our new member? Oh yes, welcome to VJ. We are a bit of a feisty group, but we will be the first to help when needed.

Well so far I would say he is the exact opposite........in fact he has said more than once if we do pursue ANY type of visa he would assume all the financial responsibility and would have plenty of money to support himself when he got here so that I would NOT have to pay for him because he feels a sense of pride and NO woman should be taking care of a man. We have also discussed this several times and he wholeheartedly agrees that there is a LOT of fraud in Morocco and a) he is not in Morocco has a life in Italy and has for sometime and B) we did not meet online we met in person to begin with (these are his words not mine). He NEVER avoids me in fact, if we could afford it we would probably talk 5 times a day instead of 2 or 3 and he does not have a computer so he goes to a cafe and is NEVER on it, in fact did not even have an email until he met me and we chat 2-3 times a week. While I was in Italy this time he was all toooo happy to introduce me to his brother who is also there and all his friends. I am seven years older than he of course we did not know that initially and the ONLY thing he has ever said about it is that he does not care at all but he wants a family ( I have no kids) and he feels like due to my age that is something we have to consider sooner rather than later. My GUT tells me he is very legit but I read these postings EVERYWHERE I feel like, in fact he has encouraged me to find women with positive experiences because he was hating that all I kept finding were negative ones. He was like, listen I know there are happy Americans and Moroccans together I see them in Morocco and I am sure they are in the States as well. So, I agree I think in time EVERYONE's true colors show and luckily (maybe not the right term) I am in the middle of a divorce and cannot do anything with a fiancee visa now anyway, in fact I have a posting about this in this forum.......sooooo we have no choice but to take it slowly I figure if all goes well in January I will spend probably three weeks in Morocco and then visit Italy again in the early summer hopefully by then I will be ready to make a decision about the visa.......so no worries NOT jumping back into ANYTHING ; )

He files on his own merits.

You may want to visit the MENA (Middle East North Africa) regional forum for specific feedback regarding Morocco.

Best of luck

Thank you and I have reposted there!

Hey ladies...

This is what grinds my gears...why are these women posting pics and vids of homes and saying "this is the house I paid for..."? Really, he forced you to give up your paycheck to pay for a home in Morocco? What kind of a brain dead ding dong are you if your husband can bully you into buying his family a home that you're not going to get any use out of? They never heard of the word "no"? Don't blindly hand over all your hard earned dough then get on a FB group and biitch about it. You're the dumbass who handed it over. Duh.

Oh hai everybody...

Quick Hijack

Yo girlie!!!! I sure have missed talking to ya! How's the "mister"?

Okay, back to topic. I've volunteered for many years now with a Victims Assistance Group and I've seen all kinds of abuse inflicted upon mostly women. So ABSOLUTELY I can understand the hurt that these women feel from being taken advantage of. But if someone reads into my posts that I put ALL the blame on these women, then you aren't paying attention to what I'm saying. As with MOST abusive relationships, a person (man or woman) HAS a choice to say NO MORE! When a person hits you or hurts you, you DO have the choice to say NO MORE! The path may be difficult but you DO have a choice to raise yourself up out of that situation. I think so many people stay in these relationships because it's what they "know" and having to change to something unknown is scary. But you know what.....everything you want in life is on the other side of fear!

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF US has said that these snakes that scam women aren't responsible for their actions...we are just saying at least own up to the choices that GOT them into that situation.

Hey Ya'll

I am new to the MENA board actually VJ in general, you guys are making me paranoid about Said, my SO. We met in Italy in April and I have just been back to see him for a second time, just got back. He has NEVER pressured me once about a visa, ever, in fact we have discussed me moving to Italy the ONLY thing he has pressured me about is coming to Morocco to meet his fam in Jan! But for those of us involved in new relations with Moroccan men what would some of the red flags be??? Just curious, I am not totally FREAKED out, just a little LOL!

With the number of Africans living illegally in Italy I would be floored if they weren't checking passports on flights originating from Africa. Maybe customs is extremely lax in Venice, but that really doesn't sound right to me. His papers would also be checked leaving Morocco. Are you sure he doesn't have a permesso di soggiorno? It is extremely unlikely that he travels as he pleases between Morocco and Italy with no papers. I think you need to find out some more solid information before you move forward making any plans.

What do you mean by the sponsorship letter? The affidavit of support for the fiance visa?

Yeah I NEED to find this out because I would be surprised to and the problem may originate in Morocco as you suggested but I know for sure he has been home several times so I will ask about the permesso di soggiorno.

On the tourist visa you can have a sponsorship letter......someone I guess who may vouch for you, say he will be staying with me etc.........my initial thought was of course we will do this and be totally honest, tell them how we met, we are trying to do the responsible thing and have him actually VISIT the country before he ups and moves here but now I have been discouraged saying that immigration does tend to keep track of these things and it may present future problems and that I would be incentive enough for him to stay here illegally..............and they will NOT like that. Jeez, my thoughts are totally opposite seems to make sense to have someone visit see if they even LIKE the country before he moves

Actually, experiences here on VJ have shown that illegal presence in other countries does not negatively affect the chances of a successful visa petition. It might seem counter intuitive, but the U.S. is not concerned with non-U.S. immigration violations.

You did say you are planning to go to Morocco in January. If your SO returns to Morocco, he will not be able to get back to Italy, since he is illegal there. So if the plan is for him to return to Morocco, moving to Italy won't really be a suitable option anyway.

Best thing is for your SO to return to Morocco, you to make some visits there to get to know him better and wait until your divorce is final. Then you can make a decision to file a petition for the fiance visa. LDR's are not ideal - being apart is definitely difficult. But most of us make it through!

You would think he would not be able to get back into Italy but you would be surprised NOW maybe it is different with a flight coming from Africa but I have been several times through the Venice airport and have yet to have my passport checked and it sounds like he comes and goes in between Italy and Morocco at will, I will reconfirm but that has been my understanding. He also has told me any number of times he has zero plans of moving back to Morocco because of course it is impossible to find work there. SOOOOO I guess I need to revisit the options with him AGAIN and see what he thinks. What are everyone's thoughts on the sponsorship letter should I get involved or not???

My fiance is Peruvian but is living in Spain legally. He DID apply for the tourist visa last November? (I don't remember exactly, last fall) in Spain, they took the money and the visa was denied. I have since found out from another woman that they had applied 3 times for the tourist visa, and all were denied, they when they finally applied for the fiance visa, that was approved. It took me many more months and 2 more long visits together before we decided to apply for the fiance visa. We decided to go for the fiance visa before my last visit there. While I was in Spain this last time he also surprised me with a ring. I do still worry about him moving here without ever having been to the US, but he does a good job at reassuring me.

Also, how would you go about moving to Italy? I only ask b/c we were thinking the same thing about me going to Spain, but didn't think it was possible in the near future (not until after he became a citizen and we got married)...

Well that has been a concern because in Italy evidently they do not REALLY want Americans coming over and taking their jobs so they make it hard for us to live there! The ONLY way it could work is if somehow I could get a job with an American company in Italy.......honestly for two reasons, 1) so I could legally work there and 2) in the future if we DID decide to pursue a fiancee visa I have to have proof that I can support him here for some amount of time....if I cannot prove any income then we are screwed that route as well anyway none of the options are good and I was just reading about the tourist visa again there is NO way he will get approved, I cannot see how, we will be happy to keep his money and then deny him...........

Does he have a permesso di soggiorno in Italy (i.e. is he there legally?). If so, I have heard that he can go through the consulate in Italy to apply for a tourist visa. You would have to confirm this with the consulate though. He has a better chance of getting a tourist visa as a legal resident in Italy than if he were to apply from Morocco. A man in his demographic applying from Morocco has virtually NO chance of getting a tourist visa.

I think it's a very good idea to spend more time with him in person before making the decision to apply for a fiance visa. I know for some people it's just not practical, but if you have the means to spend some more time together, I would strongly recommend that you do so. The easier way to do this would be for you to move to Italy for a while if you're able to.

What part of Italy does he live in? I was living in Genova when I met my husband and we were there for a couple of years before deciding to go through the visa process and move to the U.S.

Yeah, he is NOT legal I was hoping he was, although he was working in a factory they MUST have been paying him under the table, I will ask again but I am virtually positive he is not. He lives in Padova and has been there almost six years which is great except it is going to cause problems with a tourist visa. I was just reading about the spousal visa and now I am rethinking the moving to Italy sometime next year and maybe if we decide to we can get married there, obviously I need to do more research but it may solve some problems and just be quicker. Or he can go ahead and file for the tourist visa knowing he will probably be denied and then we can make another plan.

Hi all I have heard many great things about this website so I am excited to participate.

You will all learn quickly I am VERY long winded, sorry upfront I am a talker.

My story is a met a wonderful Moroccan man while I was in Italy in April. We met at the train station late one night, he saved me from a vending machine LOL! Anyway without going into the sappy love story it has become, suffice it to say we are smitten with one another and I have just returned from a wonderful two week stint with him last Wednesday, it is AWFUL to be separated from him so we are trying to figure out our best move. I did not realize he being a Moroccan citizen had to have a visa to travel here, I am quite clueless about all of this. He knew he did he just was not sure why and has not the first clue about the process. For several reasons I am not comfortable bringing someone to the States with them NEVER visiting here and then having to marry them within 90 days, not today, maybe in the future but not today. The other most important issue is I am in the middle of a divorce, it is not final so a fiancee visa is a moot point anyway right now. We have discussed so many things my head is spinning, anything from me moving to Italy for awhile, to tourist visa to fiancee visa and everything in between. We, like all of you HATE being apart and the thought of only seeing each other every 4-5 months with any luck is just a painful thought and makes us both cry. This is all leading up to my question I promise : ) Soooo while I was in Italy what we thought was he would try for a tourist visa this fall, I am due to go to Morocco in January and with any luck my divorce will be final. So, if by some miracle he were to get approved we could come back to the States together. OK here are the questions should we even TRY the tourist visa? He has been in Italy for five almost six years but is not a citizen so he needs to file from Morocco. He does have a house and money BUT no way to prove he has a job to go back to there because he doesn't. He certainly fits the profile of what they are looking to deny, single 30, Muslim.....but he is of the opinion well it is only 300.00 if I get denied we will try something else and I completely support that bc I WANT him to visit before he decides to move.........BUT I have been told he may be red flagged in the future if we do try a fiancee visa and cause another denial, so is it worth the try? Also I thought I would write a sponsorship letter and admit what we were doing that we were trying to get him to visit before he decides to move BUT now I feel like I have been strongly advised not to do that again it may cause problems in the future...........We just do not know what to do and can not stand the thought of being apart while my divorce settles and then ANOTHER 8-10 months doing a fiancee visa. From the experts I need your help! Thank you!

I certainly would have him visit on a tourist visa to make sure he is comfortable moving to America as well as give you the chance to get to know him better. As you said, if you are not comfortable getting married in the 90 days then that visa is not the one for you. The visa is only for this who already to get married and is not really supposed to be for a "getting to know you" kind of thing.

I don't know really where you would be able to have a student visa come into play unless he was already planning on being a student this year. It seems to be a little late to apply for university now as it is already the end of August and school is starting and it takes time to get that kind of visa.

I certainly would have him visit on a tourist visa to make sure he is comfortable moving to America as well as give you the chance to get to know him better. As you said, if you are not comfortable getting married in the 90 days then that visa is not the one for you. The visa is only for this who already to get married and is not really supposed to be for a "getting to know you" kind of thing.

I don't know really where you would be able to have a student visa come into play unless he was already planning on being a student this year. It seems to be a little late to apply for university now as it is already the end of August and school is starting and it takes time to get that kind of visa.

Thank you for all the good information, I really appreciate it so I guess my next question is then do I or not get involved with the sponsorship letter and acknowledge our relationship or just stay out of it all together and see what happens?

Hi Guys

This is my first time posting BUT everyone I know says this is the place to get my questions answered.

Story is I met a Moroccan man in Italy while I was on vacation in April. Obviously now you need a visa to get to the US now from Morocco and we are trying to figure out what path to take. I have just gotten back from a second visit with him and we are ready to take another step at the first of the year BUT really want to do the right and least timely thing. I have concerns about bringing someone here on a fiancee visa for two reasons a) he is moving to another country without EVER visiting and B) I am not TODAY comfortable with having to get married in 90 days. The other issue is that a fiancee visa is not really an option now because I am in the middle of a divorce. Hopefully it will be final before the end of the year but as of today I could not legally apply anyway so it is kind of a moot point. That being said, we HATE being separated as I am sure all of you know........it is very difficult and it gets expensive traveling back and forth to Italy. SOOOOO we were thinking that MAYBE just MAYBE he should try a tourist or student visa BEFORE we do the fiancee visa. That way he could visit and give him an opportunity to come to the US sooner for an extended stay 30 days or so. I also of course be willing to write the sponsorship letter for him, in fact I was thinking of being brutally honest about how and where we met and that we were trying to be responsible and then just plain out BEGGING LOL! Wellllllll I have now been advised against this bc obviously I am reason enough for him to stay illegally even tho he would not do BUT that it may red flag him for a future visa and lead to a denial on a fiancee visa. The general consensus seems to be he will get denied bc he fits the profile of what they are NOT approving, single, 30 year old man who is Muslim. He has the financial capabilities and he also owns a home in Morocco and his family is there (bc he is not an Italian citizen, he must file from Morocco) Anyway my question is with all the experience you all have had should we pursue the visa/student option and admit I am in the picture? OR just wait it out and apply for fiancee visa in January/Feb? Do you think we could encounter problems with trying to do the responsible thing for us now????

All thoughts are appreciated.

Eden