feelinglucky

I had spent over an hour to write my reply on this topic, but i accidently closed my broswer:crying: . Is there a draft saved somewhere here? what are my options beside kicking myself ?

I assume that you have a copy of the white denial sheet that the consulate gave stating specifiically each of their points for denial???

IMO submitting all the things that show proof of relationship is secondary right now, but ofcourse it should be submitted as well. Your main focus should be giving you rebutal or an explaination to each of the consulates findings. Because you are in a formal apeal stage, the CO (lucky you dont have to file AAO) will probably conduct his review more througly, just sending him a bunch of pics, and chats logs, and plane tickets will not do. IMO Priority one for you is to write WELL WRITTEN BRIEF, with supporting evidence and docs attached, There is no mention of requiring the brief to be notorized, but do it anyway, because of the weight of this matter. Lastly you can go to USCIS and search their AAO data base to see decision of prior apeals, and how other petitioners did or didnt respond correctly during their process.

Kevin said the second time was pretty smooth for him, and it was also for me, I think it was only smooth because we were prepared for the interview and knew the answers.....not like the first time when we didnt know anything. Your file is already set with the consulate, all you guys need to do is make sure your fiancee knows the core questions about you, and if the they throw any curve balls just aim for the fences. Crossing my fingers on both hands for each of you

2x2y2z and andy777. Good Luck and stay confident for you SO

Satome, can you specify if you had been sent a NOIR or EOIR-29 or BOTH. Members here have gave great adivce on how to respond to a NOIR, but you mentioned in your OP that an attached form EOIR-29 was included with a letter. Can you describe what the first letter instructions are? Also, does the EOIR say that you have to pay $110.00? Finally, was any other letter sent previously asking for you to respond to your petition being sent back?

Jake, I appreciate how you have handle the situation, even though you only recently started posting in this forum, I feel you have the right to give any opioion you want right or wrong. Some members think that they are the only ones allowed to give advice, and newcommers should just read. Its this kind of attitude that disscourage other members out there from posting. Which is a shame, hearing other peoples opioion on matters is what this forum is supposed to be about. Sharing and supporting is why I love this site, I didnt come here to hear other members being sarcastic, and somtimes just rude. Explain to me how when a member post his opioion on how to help another member, and by the way great advice never the less, and another member goes off on him like he was a fool. How is that benificial to anybody hear. Members here are not immigrations professional.................they only have some or more personel experience than others. Lastly, there is not such thing as senority here either, just because some1 is new doesnt mean they cant add their 2 cents.

If your going to off on some1 PLEASE make sure they deserve it first.

Been their and done that, I was there in the morning for my fiancee interview and everyone i saw came out with pinks. Most probably from the NON-immigrants side( students, works, and tourist visa). But went back later in the day and still saw more pinks, I only spotted 1 blue, and in the morning my fiancee only saw 1 blue given out to a young girl. She said window 7,8,9 were giving all pinks that moring... she nterviewed in window 11.

Lukytan, Jerome wrote he also submitted early and got another blue, in his opion a waste of time. You submitted early and got a pink. You consider it benifical. Both of you did the same but came away with different result. My point is if the OP had submitted earlier and got no descision or blue sheet, he or any other future applicant should go back on asigned date as well. How hard is that for you to UNDERSTAND. Instead of commenting on the your past experience why not try and look at my post objectively. I post in good faith I dont need your flack.

Jerome, Im in a frisky mood tonite so Im gonna keep it going. In my OP I have stated 5 points that i believe how the matter should have been handle on boths side ( benificary and consulate).

1) Accepting CO should have advised benificary to return on date to receive a descision of any kind.

2) The CO has to give the benificary a decision about the petition on that date. (approval, denial, or AP)

3) Benificary should have gone back on date to receive a decision. (nowhere in my OP did I mention or inferred that an approval was waiting)

4) There is no advantage to submitting early. (i.e. submitting early doesnt make the CO review the file EARILER)

5) The file will only be reveiw again on that date, if a date for resubmission was given. (BOB was given one)

Please indulge me and specify which part of my argument do disagree with. In your earlier post you used your personal expericence as a reference. You said that you submitted early and went back and found out it was a waste of time. Would you have made that same statement if you had gotten an approval? New members might read it and think that your insinuation was correct, and not bother to show up later. Finally in your last post you justified your reasons to submit early, because it gives the preception that the petitioner and benificary are eager to finish the case. Does that mean the rest of us that submitted on the date specified dont care about our petitions and the consulate and take as long as they want? Let me know if I have missed anything between the lines, reading between them isn't one of my strong points.

FeelingFrisky Tonight

Jerome, It your god given right to disagree with me, but my point i was trying to make flew over your head. You should have talked to your CO friend first before commenting, very intereseted to find out what he says about this situation. I personally heard this advice given to petitoners during their submission several times. How many times have you heard the advice given by a CO? By showing up Bob will at the very least get a desicsion, (approval, denied, or another blue ). At least he will know where he stands, not just going home to wait near the mailbox.You stated that you know many people who submitted on the day schedule. But how many people you know went to submit early ( didnt go back on schedule date) and didnt get any type of response execpt for go home and we will mail you something that has never came yet.

Bob, I hate to say it but you made things more harder on yourselves. In this case the system had let you down. During your submission the CO who took your docs. should have sad to come back on the schedule date of submission as well. This is the only date that CO will review your file again in front of you or the benificary. Just submitting early, only gets the docs in early but there is no advantage. They will only review on that schedule date. The correct approach was to go back on that date with a copy of the blue slip and meet with the CO and hear what decision they have made at that time. I only saying this now for other members who have future interviews to keep this in mind. Did you try call DOS to see the status on thier system (AP, AR)?

Having a timeline and showing proof of your realtionship will only come naturally during the course of your petition. You will have a 8 to 10 months to build it up. IMO that the least of your concerns, I am more worried about your families past, because this is a potential red flag. You already admitted you were introduce by your aunt. The consulate will take a close look at this and try to connect any dots that may be there. Because 2 families are from the same city and your fiancee as prior knowledge of your family the CO will try to see if any collusion, or if infact you guys are somehow related. IF the CO has a bad day they will ask you to submit a detail info sheet regarding all your realatives in the US, and ask your fiancee to submit one as well if appicable. To add to interview preparations. The CO will ask the general questions at first, then pick out certain questions that they want to dig deeper. For example, CO asked my fiancee what my mother name, then dug deeper and asked how old is she. Second example, This happened on both interviews she was asked future wedding plans. My Fiancee gave the same generic answer, we cant plan ahead untill the visa is issued. The CO then dug deeper and asked where will your wedding reception be. My fiancee replied with the same answer. Finally the CO dug some more and asked where will the honeymoon be. So i hope you get my point, dont try to get cute with them. On the second interview, the CO again asked the same questions. Only this time we had answers to them. First, my fiancee answered we will have a traditional vietnamese wedding at home, cost 2000 usd. 1000 for food, 500 for band and MC. 500 for photographer. And yes the family will be there. Second, I had went to local resturant and got a qoute with no deposit down for a wedding reception and gave to my fiancee for the interview. They asked her where it will be, but didnt want to see the quote when she offered. lastly, she said we are going to Las Vegas for our honeymoon, when the CO asked what in Las Vegas? MY fiancee said all casions ( SIN CITY) By the end of that sections of questions the CO was satified that there was some preparation about geting married after obtaining a visa. Whether you choose to keep those wedding plans is up to you, The CO wont make you follow thru on the venues or places stated. The just want to know if you guys and talked about your future once she get to the US. Just merely making a statement of intent wont fly at HCMC.

Finally, you havent mention that you had or planning to have an engagement cermony, I think you should and also bring all engagement pic to interivew(i.e. guest photos) not just ones showing your families, they look for quanity in these pic. By giving all the pics it give the precepiton of a bigger ceremony, thus seeming more legitimate. Good Luck on your Journey, Feeling Lucky

I never told him to rely or hope about anything. He knows that there are issues with his case, I am merly saying that there is a positive point in his situation. It could be argued that I am speculating the potential treatment that he might get. But dont take it from me read the OP , and come to your own conculsions. I dont know to post links, but go to consulate reivew for Vietnam HCM. Page 6 poster name is G. Urbina , date of review is June 27, 2008

We haven't had DAM HOI yet. It is planned on July 13, 2010, which is a good day for both of us. My dad and I will be back and the tickets were purchased. She will reserve a food catering company to cater our DAM HOI. I also have 6 pages of phone record for the last two months. I'll try to set the preference on Yahoo Messenger, and hopefully, it gives me more proofs.

My wife just passed away last year. It seems like very quick for us but we have so much in common. My kids really like her as well. I don't want to wait any longer due to our tradition or any reasons and I might lose her forever. Both of my kids and I enjoyed her accompany. I am working for a government agency and my income is more than $100K/year. Hopefully, this will convince them at the time of the interview that I am not just in this for $$$$. Thanks for the suggestions. They are very helpful. Any other suggestions are welcomed.

JP , I thinks members have overlooked a certain silver linning in your case. As you can see the time of your NOA 2 was extremely fast, probably due to the fact that your an employed of the goverment of the US. Therefore with your security clearances, it should carry some weight. Also your petition is going to be looked differently than the general public. Your interview will be probably be scheduled sooner than normal. Also, When your fiancee make the CO aware of; if they havent already; that your a government employee just like them. They will mostly likely extended your case some sort of govermental courtesy. If you read the section on consulate reviews, you will see a post that pretains to your situation. The USC was also a government employee and got the VIP treatment.

1) not having a engagement ceremony in time for interview......logistics

2) Not having e-mails to show....... understandable

3) being engaged relatively soon........ the heart is a strange organ

Making over 100k and....a goverment employee PRICELESS !

Good Luck

Already been and gone. Same girl from yesterday and she was really nice today. I'm all set with the evidence. Took a while to get it all through the slot. Flying back tonight. Meeting congressman on Friday. Will be calling DOS daily and congressman can inquire as often as I like. So many people in same boat with no idea what to expect so I was recruiting today for VJ.

Great, sounds like the visit today went really well, no secruity issues I assume. Have a safe flight home, God Speed

Scott, remember to write a coverletter/brief and attach to your evidence. In that brief you should state all your point of contentions on how the CO handled the inteview. If anything it will be in writting and not hear say, also get it notirized when you are there. If possible try to get a supervisor signature on there as well, just to let the CO know that you have got management involed. I hope you read this b4 you go. Maybe what I am suggesting is arugmentative, but I feel that the position you been backed into. Good Luck today and Make it worth your wild.

come back tomorrow... will be back tomorrow to load up every piece of paper that they did not accept at the interview... heading back to US tomorrow night...

That was one of the steps I insisted you should have done eariler in your interview post, At that time you were only concentrating on the requested docs. I hope you can now see what i was thinking, I was trying to let you play the game 2 moves ahead. Tommorow use the faint tatic again it was very dramatic, I also saw a little panic in the CO as well as myself. Insist to speak to supervisor in your matter I have seen it do before if you push hard. Also, dont sit overthere where you where earlier, sit close to the windows, so you can learn their tatics. Good Luck

Scott, how are you doing, I hope your feeling better right now. I heard and saw what happened today at the consulate. I was the one who asked you if you wanted some water. Like I said eariler dont expect miracle to happen. After a couple visits and listening to the CO overhere I come to the conculsion that they are merely CSO (custumers service officers). They cant do much and sometimes insenstive at times. Case in point, today a lady was asking how long will her AR take to the same CO you spoke to. She immediatly went into her DOS, BS, speach. But after the girl showed her another pieace of paper with an appointment date, she started to change her tone instantly. They make up stuff as they go along just to statify the USC. Things could have been handled diffently, but right now you have no choice but to let things run its course. Good Luck

They told me I could not go and then this afternoon they changed the story and said oh yes you could have. I refuse to sit backfor 3-6 months or more and hope they decide something. They will. Approve or deny tomorrow. If they deny I can at least do something about it.

Never trust anyone who's mouth moves overthere, and only trust yourself, That I have learned. I thought you knew that the applicant or petitioners has right to submit, with blue slip in hand. The main purpose for the trip. I will probably see you tommorow, have to asked them Q's. Good Luck

Scott, there comes a time in a mans life when things get out of control, but this is the time when you need to be the most calm. First of all why did you got back today at 3:45 its not the day the Citzens can go in. Second why didnt you go and give the docs. instead of Thuy. When you described your earlier interview I new things werent go to be smooth. The correct approach should have been expect the worst hope for the best. Right now your still in the game, atleast they didnt give her the white slip right away as they often do. I say your about 50/50, tommorrow when you go to see the CO, dont expect a miracle. But try to gage the intention of CO and see what you can do. I think you made the correct decesion in being there in person. Dont waste time in ranting. Good Luck

I went to the Consulate yesterday during Citizens hours to submitt the DS-230. While there I found out that we can have our documents notarized for FREE if requested by the CO. The Consulte can notarize any document during its business hours from 8:30 to 11:30 AM, but there will be a charge of 30 USD for each stamp. But if you go during Citzens hours it will be done at no charge, right on the spot. If you are there during your SO interview, please keep this options in mind. Good Luck

interview lasted over 1 hour.. extensive questions about my family and my ex's,..my visits, dates places activities, when we first had sex. she was very rude and yelled at Thuy.. I am amazed that the CO was so impolite! They refused to allow her to answer in english.. probably more than 75 questions. the only question she did not know was the exact name of the University I gradiuate from was it St Leo University or College.. It was college when I started and changed to University before I earned MBA.. The CO appeared angry that she knew so much about me... that she started asking questions that my mother doesn't even know...

blue slip for police cert. which she had but they refused to accept...

Info about my ex which was frontloaded... and they disregarded

info about her ex..

timeline which she tried to give them but they refused to take...

They refused to look at evidence of relationship.. only looked at a few pictures..

I am livid...

Having gone through the blue slip word by word...

The first papragraph notes the 221g .. in that paragraph.. the standard first paragraph for all blue slips.. notes that the reason is either a lack of proof of bonafide or failure to present required documents.

The following paragraphs attached explain the documents needed... others have seen proof of bonafide listed and from what Thuy said.. they saw the proof she had, but only lookedat the photos.. she did look at all of the photos.. and she asked about specific dates and places for the past year... example.. during his third trip what day were you in vung tau? what were the exact dates he arrived and departed for each trip... while the CO looked at my passport pages and visa copies...

I have two choices.. I can address them based on the exact wording of the items listed(proof of ex's address)... or I can read between the lines that they want proof that neither of us are with our ex's...

for each of the ex's we will provide a cover sheet from each of us that is notarized stating that we don't reside together, listing and explaining the evidence provided as proof attached.

Scott, I am a little confused. Your previous post said the CO look at only a few pics. But your recent post said the CO look at all pics. Which one was it? You also said they refused to look at evidence of relationship, how much did the CO ignore ?

May I ask what is your main contention in your case? Was it the fact that the CO was and i quote "was very rude, Co appeared angry". Or that the CO refused documents submission 5 times. You apparently had all documents requested on the blue at that time, except for the updated police report, then why didnt the CO accepted it then? IMO your attention to your case you be on the CO attitude. By stepping back and look at it from a broader scope, it should appear that the CO 4 requested items were merely formalities. This is only my speculation based on my own personal experience with the consulate. They had also asked me to submit my ex current address as well. But in the end they deined me for other reasons. But on the hand your petition was prepared far better than mine. Focus your submission not only as to submit the requested items, but treated as a second chance to have a proper interview in written form. By being aware that Thuy interview had gone sideways you will have addressed the main concern. By listing and give explainations off ALL evidences is a great start. Hoping, next month when the CO look at all the evidence you personly submit she wont have the opprunity to reflect back on the inital interview and only make a decesion based on the evidence present in front of her for the SECOND time. Good Luck

No worries.. all of the documents are going to be ready for them next week... exactly what they are asking for in the blue slip and very detailed in addressing each of the 4 items...A government certified copy of a Ho Khau should be sufficient proof of someones address right? and for my ex we have the quit claim of our old house from the clerk, along with a recent credit card bill, her property tax bill and an affidavit from me and two other people saying we dont live together and how long.

Timeline is a done deal and the police cert is no worries.. it was missing some info and just needs to be fixed and stamped..

There is no mention of lack of proof of bonafide...

Scott, In an ideal world everyone would play the game straight up. However, many members cases were screwed by the CO. Of course they didnt mention any lack of proof of bonafide, the CO refused to review evidence that Thuy brought . So later they can legally state what they saw at that time of the interveiw. They will save that statement if they decide to refuse the visa in the white slip. By not mentioning it in the Blue slip, and if the USC is not aware that they have the option to submit additional proof, and did not. The CO will use her TRUMP card and deny on that reason and any other reason she can fabricate legally. Try to read between the lines of the blue slip. If you think just by submitting the 4 items,and everything will all be al right, Then I wish I had your confidence. I had mentioned early to submit a cover letter/rebuttal. I know that your dont have a right to submit a rebuttal. But i suggested that your cover letter is written in the form of a rebuttal. In HCMC USC have to be creative in how we get stuff into our file. HCM play by their own set of rules, so we must adjust accordingly. Good Luck

Another woman there told her not to bring them early... she was really nice to Thuy and said bring the stuff back on the date on the paper to get the pink slip... her words not mine.. I think they are just buying time for some reason.

We have the vacay planned for mid March to go to Disney and then to cape canaveral to watch the shuttle go up...

Scott who is this other women, Is she directly involved in the approval decision? IMO they were using "the good cop, bad cop senerio". Only the interviewing CO mindset should be relevant here. The other women probably felt sorry for her, and just sad whatever, so Thuy would leave the building. Ask yourself why was she being really nice for? First, not letting her conduct her Interview in English, tells me that this CO has personel issue towards you. And was takeing it out on Thuy, she didnt deserve that treatment. Second I have a feeling that the path your case was already decided during pre-interview review. Was there a green slip on the table already waiting? IMO they are setting her up to fail, make no mistake about it. As far as the acutal interview and demeanor of the persons involved, it just vaildates our opioion of why HCM consulate is an embarasment to the DOS. Im assuming that near the top of your green slip, there should be a paragraph that states the applicant and/or the petitioner may submit addition proof of bona fied realationship for review. Even though you have probably submitted in you intial filling, you must include EVERTHING again when she goes back(including all evideince that Thuy brought which the CO refused to look at). Make sure you intergrated in your timeline. If the evidence is submitted separtely, the intake personnel not acept it. They will only acept what was indicated on the green sheet. Lastly, prepare a well written Coverletter/REBUTTAL along with your green sheet. It should express your opioion as to why you felt Thuy did not recieve a proper interview in accordance with the F.A.M ( Foreign Affairs Manuel). Please read the sections in FAM regarding interview procedures, aplicants rights, and refussal procedures. If things start to go sideway, at least there will be evidence in your file of how the interview was conducted. Scott right now Mickey Mouse can wait, you got bigger fish to fry. Good Luck

Scott, will your fiancee be traveling alone to HCMC? If you need any help while she is her, I am currently in HCMC with my fiancee, we are about 7 minutes away from the consulate.

1) On a scale of 1 to 10, what is your anxiety level right now? (10 being certifiable)

2) On a scale of 1 to 10, How well do you think you have prepared your case?

If you answer 10 to both then you definitely have set yourself up to be successful.

Good Luck & Best wishes.