Snake&Dog

This is written more than 2 years later. After my in-law's refusal, we did go to our Congressman's Office (David Dryer, now retired). He did draft a letter

(it was _not_ boiler plate, and he did mention I was a Caltech scientist of long standing presence in the community and that he said that

I [note: not he, but I, the applicant] felt if their case were given careful scrutiny next time, they would be found qualified to visit. The consulate

replied inside 2 weeks with a nice note inviting my in-laws to reapply and assuring that close attention would be given to their application. Both the

letters were on government letterhead and both mentioned the congressman's name, the consulate chief's name, and my in laws-names.

Soon after our child was born and my mother saw her new granddaughter just before she died.

It took 1 1/2 years to convince my sorely offended father-in-law to agree to reapply. They did and they showed these government letters along with the other documents.

They we immediately approved. We regarded the letters as "backup" in the event that the officer did not look at any documents - it was a letter from their chief

saying that my inlaws' documents would be used for assessment. But this time the officer did look through everything that was handed over.

I will never know if the letters to and from the consulate had any effect, either before or during the interview.

They stayed 2 months in the US and returned to China as promised. My mother-in-law helped with our child, but was not a nanny. We all are nannies.

This year they applied again (by mail) and were approved. They are here and staying 3 months. Find their photo album on stevelord.net

We are not over confident that they will have an easy time each time now. We hear of parents coming each year for years and then suddenly being rejected.

Good luck to all.

A little note here - I found some of the experts who answered me in this forum to be a little ah, severe, in their opinions. I am just saying this to those who are

struggling: don't be put off and discouraged. Do keep trying. We did and it worked (though I don't really know how). It's a fluid game. Best of luck.

Post containing a personal attack has been removed. While sarcasm may be allowed in an Off Topic or Politics & Religion forum post, it is not acceptable in the Immigration forums. if you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion or if you cannot be courteous, then please do not participate in the discussion at all.

Dear Zookeeper - thanks for your help moderating. Also - something got jumbled above. If you look at posts 19 and 21 above you see that 21 is a repeat of 19 - 21 is my repeat effort to better comment. But since the top line

is missing in 21, the top paragraph looks attributed to me (Snake and Dog) not Eric-Pris. Maybe your moderator powers include fixing this by adding the missing

line into 21.

Thanks

Snake&Dog

I know because pretty much the same happened to us, except it was for my step kids (age 13, 14). They wanted to stay in their home country with the grandparents but they want to visit. Even though we could file I-130's and have them here relatively quickly, they still denied the tourist visas. I actually told the guy, "why would we bring them on tourist visas and have them stay as illegals if we could bring them over legally?" The a-hole didn't have an answer and still denied them. I tried to "vouch" for them but they still denied. I asked what we could bring to show ties and he pretty much told us that they are not getting a tourist visa. So screw them, once my wife naturalizes early next year, we'll bring them over on I-130's, they will become US citizens upon entering the US, and then they will go back to Costa Rica as US citizens and be free to come and go as they please. You're in a different boat because the wait would be too long, so you can only tyr again and maybe the next guy will approve. It's 100% subjective. One guy says no. and the next yes. It's random.

And those consulate officers have such bad attitudes too. That's what pissed me off the most.

Thanks for the comment. I do have a little sympathy for the officers. I have been to the Guangzhou China consulate, arriving at the wee hours, standing in the sea of anxious applicants who crowd the open outdoor space. They are under observation of the police, who stop anyone with a camera.

The huge stream of applicants from China requires either more Consulate capacity (windows, officers and the rest) or else must continue to rely on these lousy flash (I would say unfair) interviews to keep processing the delays from growing insanely

.

That being said - the Tourist Visa process is so arbitrary that several people I know instead get their in-laws to apply to immigrate - to become residents holding green cards (even when the in-laws simple want to visit!) since that process seems to actually include some thoughtful examination of the case. So in that regard the Consulate is being counterproductive and increasing their own workload,

PS -While I don't think the monetary aspect is the reason for the denials, I do know that the revenue stream from China's tourist visitors is being looked at by our government. There has been the suggestion lately by some congressmen, that increasing Tourist Visa throughput volume and fees from China may be a good thing for the US in that it will capitalize on the growing Chinese economy.

There's really nothing you can do, except try again. This seems like the consulate's/embassy's main revenue stream, from poor suckers who pony up $150 each time. That's a pretty good revenue when there's 100-150 people a day applying.

I know because pretty much the same happened to us, except it was for my step kids (age 13, 14). They wanted to stay in their home country with the grandparents but they want to visit. Even though we could file I-130's and have them here relatively quickly, they still denied the tourist visas. I actually told the guy, "why would we bring them on tourist visas and have them stay as illegals if we could bring them over legally?" The a-hole didn't have an answer and still denied them. I tried to "vouch" for them but they still denied. I asked what we could bring to show ties and he pretty much told us that they are not getting a tourist visa. So screw them, once my wife naturalizes early next year, we'll bring them over on I-130's, they will become US citizens upon entering the US, and then they will go back to Costa Rica as US citizens and be free to come and go as they please. You're in a different boat because the wait would be too long, so you can only tyr again and maybe the next guy will approve. It's 100% subjective. One guy says no. and the next yes. It's random.

And those consulate officers have such bad attitudes too. That's what pissed me off the most.

Thanks for the comment. I do have a little sympathy for the officers. I have been to the Guangzhou China consulate arriving at the wee hours standing in the sea of anxious applicants crowding in the open outdoor space with the police stopping anyone with a camera.

The huge stream of applicants from China requires either more capacity (windows, officers and the rest) or else relies on these flash (I would say unfair) interviews to shorten the delays.

That being said - the Visa process is so arbitrary that several people I know instead get their in-laws to apply to become Immigrants - residents holding green cards (when they simple want to visit!) since that process seems to actually include some thoughtful examination of the case.

Consular decision is not reviewable even by the President.

That said, did the parents submit itinerary, round trip tickets and offer to post bond?

Do they have substantial assets in China ?

Its pretty common to get refused on these VISA's due to the 'work" aspect. Something they said might have led the consular to believe they are doing child care while in US. And previous poster is correct this is a job.

I appreciate the comments. The parents passed the officer their documents and the first thing the officer did was push them right back out. They had an itinerary and could have easily posted bond, although I am not sure there is a procedure for this. Do you know anything about this? (Their assets are ample by Chinese standards).

There was no hint of a child, and my wife is 40. While I agree that the suspicion of childcare could provide a simple explanation for the denial - I honestly don't think it is likely for the officer to suppose this. That was simply not the way things went.

The real problem it seems to me is that they were steamrolled right out of the interview. The "interview" process did not include any such considerations as mentioned above. We had worked hours on succinct letters which no one took one minute to glance at and whose subject mater was never broached. We have worried about this problem and now we are thinking in the next interview is that if they can not show documents, the parents need to start talking fast to slip some of this information in. The officer this week seemed to operate entirely on instinct - far too much: my parents in law have not the slightest interest in staying long. It seems that the applicant has no chance to make a fair case and is left guessing if any one part of the truth is a liability or a virtue. E.g., it was mentioned in this thread that leaving money behind was good but don't leave a precious child behind. Such confusion over the meaning of such signals enters a process when a modicum good communication (between the officer and applicant) is absent.

I imagine a Consular decision is reviewable by the Consular General, no? But I would also imagine a refused Visitor Visa may not be considered worthy of the attention of higher ups. So I have (after all this) a practical question -

Do they simply fill out the forms again and request a new interview? I think the China waiting period for an interview is now 24 days.

Oh yes, please - I agree. Yes, for certain, caring for a child is a full time job. :-) As I mentioned - we are stay-at-home Mom & Dads. Each of us.

"helping out" is another one of those thinly disguised phrases that really means.."coming to the US to engage in full time child care so the mother can return to work.."...however,child care is work...and if you doubt that, find out how many nannies will do the job for nothing....also, congressmen/senators have no power over the consular official's decision...they cannot legally order that a visa be issued, and no one can 'vouch' for the actions of another...

Well, in this case, the issue of a child being born never came up in the interview or in any document received, so this topic not exactly germane to my post. But to address your point - the letter of invitation that the parents carried from us emphatically stated that we were each on long leaves from work to take care of the child ourselves, which is the truth. I receive State funded "Bonding" leave that doubles my saved-up vacation time and so I have months off and so does my wife (she quit work). We were asking the grandparents not to be our nannies but to be part of the experience. This is different, I think. I would never say infant care is not work. But since this is a new experience for both of us, and also their first grandchild, it does not seem an unnatural idea to me to have her Mom look in. And she wants to. We were disguising nothing. Our concern is that the interview, which could have captured all of these considerations this never occurred. The facts of the application would have required more time for the officer to assimilate. I would estimate about 2 minutes. But by all accounts the interviews are way more perfunctory, unfortunately so for the reputation of Americans.

As for the congressional office, I am told by the my local representative's office that they can ask the Consulate Generals office to review a decision or at least explain it. This also seems reasonable.

?

Not sure why the "?" - the idea was her (my wife's" Mom) wanted to visit us in the first months to help out.

This seems common for China. If they know that a grandchild is impending, they tend to deny because there is a track record of parents coming to visit and then overstaying and trying to adjust status so that they can take care of the baby. While it would be fraud to lie if asked about grandchildren, if they would have simply stated they are coming to visit their daughter and see some US cities then their visa would probably have been approved (given strong ties). The other option would have been only one parent applying instead of both.

In fact this is exactly what they said: They were coming to visit their daughter and see some US cities. The refusal followed.

Can you not could visit them?

Yes - We will visit when the baby in 3 months.

It is just such a slap in the face from a country I am trying to get them comfortable with.

And her Mom wants so much to be here to help.

And my wife wants so much to show her parents her new life.

And my Mom so much wants top meet them.

Today, in a 3 minute, six question interview, my 70 year old Chinese in-laws were denied US Visitor Visas at

the US Consulate in Guangzhou. My wife and I really don't know what to do.

While her parents had ample reasons to visit the US and ample reasons to return home to China, none of this came out via the interview.

None of the supporting letters or documents were even looked at. The officer simply said: "You are not qualified to come to the United States."

The reasons they had to visit were: to visit their daughter and be at hand for the birth of their granddaughter in 3 weeks time. They also greatly

wanted to meet the baby's other grandparent, my mother, who is dying of aggressive cancer and has very few months to live.

The reasons they had to return to China were likewise strong: they have a Government provided home and pension, ample savings,

and they care for a live-in disabled adult daughter who has psychological problems.

Further, they live nearby their son's family, and they care daily for the grandson as his day routine is lunch and homework with the grandparents.

These connections were all spelled out in the letter of invitation and letter to the Consulate Office, none of which were looked at.

The Q and A:

Have you ever been to the US before? No

Why do you want to visit the US: To visit our daughter and tour the US

How old is your daughter: 40

How did your daughter get to the US? By marriage to an American. (They look up her records: After 2 years here, she holds a Conditional Green Card)

What does you daughter do: She works in education

Where does she live: Los Angeles County

Visa denied - you are not qualified. Take this Blue Sheet - NEXT PLEASE

Lawyers in the building tracked them from the stream of the rejected applicants - and looked over their forms.

"This is a mistake - for 800$ we can get this reversed" My wife advised them by phone to ignore such lawyers.

The form they were handed explained that: insufficient information was provided to guarantee the applicants' return to China.

But that conclusion surmised, not determined. All relevant information a hand went sight-unseen.

Advice we have been given is to come back with a new application and interview showing some document or the other that was NEW.

This way, one officer can reverse the decision of another without implying the first made a mistake. I thought

the new document should be a statement from a Chinese hospital saying that their Chinese disabled daughter did in fact require her

parent's care. However, a local immigration lawyer suggested the a letter from myself written on my Caltech letterhead, vouching for the parents,

and attesting to their firm ties to China and the importance of their short visit, would garner more attention. I have have also

contacted my Congressman's office.

All other suggestions welcomed

Steve

(Snake and Dog)

I am a citizen and my wife is a resident of the US. Her parents in China are applying for a tourist visa to visit us. They will interview at the US Consulate in Guangzhou shortly. We are wondering, if successful, how long they will be allowed to stay in the US. Who decides, when is it decided, and what are the possible periods allowed. It will be their first here. Is there some standard 6 month Visa given? Is multiple entry an option? Is multiple entry something that must be asked for?

Someone told us that the allowed visit length is not determined until they reach the immigration portal at the US arrival airport, and it is arbitrary as to what time period an officer choses to put on their passports. But this sound illogical to me. So we are wondering..... Thanks for any help. Dog&Snake

My wife's parents are applying in China for a VISA to visit us in the US for 6 months.

In the interview, they can point to good indicators that they will return to China:

their other children and grandchild are in China; the Chinese government sponsors their

housing and pension, and they have ample saving in the bank. However,

we wonder if they should or should not mention in the interview that they are coming to

be at hand for the birth of their grandchild.

My wife came over on a K1 Visa and now has a conditional

permanent Green Card. We have been married almost two years.

We have heard of other parents wishing to make similar visits who have been repeatedly denied.

While we would very much like her parents to be completely honest and thus completely relaxed for the

interview, we hope that we are not making some terrible mistake in guiding them so.

Any advise please?