DansJourney

Not medicine, but... Baby wipes! Great alternatives to soggy toilet paper..

I also usually take the following arsenal:

Immodium

Benadryl

Headache Meds (Advil, etc..)

Neosporin

Is it smart to sue them while filing your petition or waiting for it to be approved? They won't retaliate right?

I thought long and hard about that before deciding to step up and be a plaintiff. But I figured there is nothing stopping them from denying the second petition similar to the first. I can understand why anyone would be afraid to step up. So I decided to take action and hope that we can make some change.

Hey Scott!

Take it easy, and best of luck in a few hours!

Best of Luck!

Email and bring a hard copy to the interview.

I wonder if I can be her translator in the next interview...

Don't we all?

Sorry to hear about your experience and blue slip. We hope for the best for your next round.

Just kind of curious but why did you both not talk about the questions that may be asked and both gotten on the same sheet? It has pretty much always been asked how and when each have met so it would have been fruitful to talk about that and been sure that she would have answered as the timeline you submitted.

We did talk about it, like I've said in my previous post, I had two dates (Our mistake, I know), I explicit stated the timeline is from a to z but also gave a little background of the date my cousin had talked/planned an introduction, which was a month before. Again horrible mistake on our part to put that second date in. But if the CO really read the timeline it would have been clear that I agree with her answer. That mistake gave the CO the ability to say we had conflicting dates.

Plain and simple, we didn't realize we had to prove so much. It sucks and we're now living through it. It will be better next time.

File now and then have the ceremony means not being able to adequately front loading the application. So I'm still thinking about that one.

I believe vietazn and ScottThuy are both correct. In our case, they used the timeline against us. The second CO clearly nit picked at our dates (It is also my fault as well). in our timeline, therefore stating there was discrepancy with the date Ha gave and what was on the timeline. Based on what was stated in the denial letter, it was quite clear that they were looking for any reasons to call our relationship a sham.

"I, DansJourney, a citizen of the U.S. am the fiancé of Ha. The following is a sworn affidavit documenting the timeline of our relationship during <b>04-17-2008</b> to present.

In March 2008, I was introduced to Ha by my cousin. Ha and my cousin worked at ____ together and have been the best of friends throughout their career at _____. Ha and I chatted for several months before our relationship became serious. In August of 2008, is when Ha and I realized we were more than friends."

In March my cousin spoke to both of us about each other, etc... CLEARLY, this was a mistake in our part for putting it in.

We're currently talking about next steps if we can't keep this petition at HCMC.

Congratulations Jim and Phuong!!!

I have been the returned petition to CSC on the 212 ( " relationship for immigration purposes" ) and hired Mr Ellis. The K1 died, no offer of rebuttal, no NOID, no NOIR just death. The second petition was filled and front loaded, included a statement written by Mr Ellis about how the wavier should not apply to this filing and requested that it not be invoked ( with a lot more legalize ) and they end result was they let petition 1 die and moved petition 2. And the wedding is tomorrow

Thanks for the valuable information and more importantly, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ha and I have been researching forums to seek out some advice and we came up with our next course of action.

We can't re-file without addressing the concerns that was outlined in our denial. So at best we're looking at the end of next year.

I have sent an email directly to the HCM consulate outlining concerns Ha and I had and request that they do not administratively close our case. Let me know if anyone is interested in our results. If not, I can just let this thread end its life.

Thank you to all those on VJ and outside of VJ that have been given us constructive feedback.

Daniel & Ha

Actually you have to reference the first K1 in the second one, because of the question about previous filings. You also need to ask for an wavier for filing the second visa. This causes them to touch the original visa and they will expire it at that point ( in theory they could reaffirm the first but I have not seen California do that ) They should then approve the second and send it ( maybe both packages ) off to be processed. What filing the second petition does is cause them to make a decision of the first one when they review date for the second happens. The other choice is waiting until they expire the first one. But who wants to waste another 4-6 months.

For my case in particular, they scheduled the second interview on the day before expiration date. In that case, once you re-file they don't link it to the first case at all?

Shouldn't the petition just expire?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry3586763

The reaction of a returned K1 differs between California and Vermont. Vermont will look at them and take an action and California will sit on them then tell you that their validity has expired and you are free to file another petition. I don't think any K1 processed in California has really been looked at, they all end up in the expired pile.

The next question after that is if the K1 is expired and the Consulate sends their information, will they process it at a later date and possibly cause issues if you re-file?

The totality of all information presented and available is considered. Therefore the first petition/case will be in the mix. How you address the issues raised in the denial will determine the outcome of a second petition.

The Dam Hoi is not required by US law. However it is a big cultural norm in VN. So the CO's see that as a public announcement of the couple's intentions. Have some cases been approved with out an engagement ceremony, yes. Have many more been denied due to a lack of Dam Hoi, yes. As the slip you receieved stated the CO applies the "reasonable person standard" when evaluating a case. A reasonable person familiar with VN culture would expect a couple to have one.

Don't get hung up on the who introduced you "mutual friend" definition. From what you've stated the date discrepancy is the larger issue. If it was a misread, that ought not to happen the next time. And assuming that your fiancee is more sure of her answers and calmer the story of your relationship will flow more easily.

Fill in the thin parts of your submission. When preparing your submission always try to think like a CO. From reading some US Foreign Service officer's blogs they want to get it right. But they can only valuate information that is available to them. Give them the evidence to see the growth of your relationship.

Don't get yourselves discouraged and get stuck trying to affix blame for the white slip. Support each other as you prepare for a better petition that will get the pink slip.

There is some fight left in us.. We're just trying to gather a good sense of direction, not necessarily pointing fingers. Thanks for everyone's feedback.

Not true, they will not link the two cases, as they are seperate. If you once again prove that your relationship is creditable then it will start all over again. The second time you file, you must confront the reasons for the first denial, or it will probably get denied again unless you get a different CO that feels differently about your case. Just because you were denied, this does not mean your fiancee is on a fraud list, or you. The only way you will get a instant denial is if you get caught doing actual visa fraud, and with the denial, this means no fraud has been committed as she was never in AMERICA. As far as the first denial, the consulate will have that information, but with you refiling this shows that you have strong intent to be with her, this helps prove your relationship is strong, that is IF you can disprove the reasons they gave for your first denial. Good luck on what ever you decide to do, but know that there are options and just because of a denial does NOT mean a instant denial when you refile.

Jerome and Binh

Okay thanks! That was the information I was looking for. Do you have a link that states that the cases are separate? As of today, our NOA expired. I guess we just sit and gather evidence and then re-file. Any suggestions on whether or not to rebuttal and then re-file, which ever comes first?

There are few things, I would want to point out if I were to rebuttal:

1. The second CO that interviewed Ha was different from the first and mis-read information provided.

2. The date mix up was by notes of one CO to another, since on the timline it clearly states dates in chronological order.

3. CO stated that we were introduced by a mutual friend, where clearly it states cousin, with name.

4. The blue slip we received the first time, didn't say Dam Hoi was an explicit requirement.

5. Additional evidence was not reviewed at any of the interviews.

Update:

*Section 221(g) of the Act prohibits the issuance of a visa to anyone who has failed to present documents required in connection with the visa application, or who has failed to submit sufficient credible evidence to support the claimed petitionable relationship.

Photographs submitted as evidence of relationship indicate that Petitioner and Beneficiary have spent only three or four days together.

I've been to VN twice, both times spent 2-3 weeks with Ha, our first visit had lack of photos since we didn't think of applying for K1. The second time, I was in VN we had more photos. Because they did not accept any new evidence at the first interview (except for photos), I'm assuming they're making a lot of their decisions based on the petition application I had filed.

I would agree that the petition I filed was bare bone, compared to what I would have filed today.

Beneficiary and or Petitioner submitted no evidence of any engagement celebration. blah blah blah

This is true. We did not have an engagement celebration because may parent could not attend, and in VN cultures for the most part it's to safe face of family. Ha and I are going to have to look past that and continue with the party with or without them.

Based on information from Petitioner (via interview, and, or documentation), Beneficiary is not aware of basic facts about Petitioner. For example while Beneficiary is aware of Petitioner's current job title, Beneficiary is unaware of Petitioner's current boss, or for whom Petitioner worked prior to current job.

I do not know if this is a blanket statement but they did not ask her for my current job title (which she knows the answer to). They did ask for my boss's name (This is ridiculous no one in my family or my closest friends know who my boss is, why do they know nor care?).

Beneficiary's account for basic facts regarding claimed marriage in the U.S. For example, Beneficiary does not know the name of guests, approximate costs of the ceremony. etc..

They asked her how many people, and who is all attending, and where at. They answered correctly except for the the who is attending part. She said family and friends, but they were looking for names. Okay, She knows two of my best friends and their names. But, how are you going to name guests with names that you really haven't met or known?

Beneficiary's account of basic facts regarding the claimed relationship is not creditably. For example, Beneficiary has stated that Petitioner have planned a honeymoon, but Beneficiary is unable to provide basic facts such as destination, hotel, duration or approximate costs) etc....

While, I understand the intent of this, it's a bit ridiculous. Marriage is a joint effort, so would it not be a good idea for her to figure out what she likes around here in the first month and then plan our say honey moon and what not? We had basic ideas, but apparently bad idea to name them.

*Your case is administratively closed. Consular officers apply a 'reasonable person standard' when evaluating the bona fides of claimed spousal, fiance(e) and other relationships. These facts (above) as ascertained by consular officers would convince a reasonable person that the claimed relationship is a sham entered into solely for immigration purposes and to evade immigration laws (or is otherwise invalid). Therefore, pursuant to 9 FAM 41.81 N6.5, the reviewing officer has decided that the petition should be returned to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) with the recommendation that it be revoked. etc.....

They also miss read my timeline:

"Petitioner and Beneficiary's Chronologies of the claimed contradict on the a fundamental point. In sworn and notairzed statement, Petitioner claimed that Beneficiary was introduced by a mutual friend in March of 08. Beneficiary claimed April 08."

The person wasn't a mutual friend, the person was my cousin, and Ha's friend.

In the timeline I claimed that my cousin had approached me in March and we exchanged pictures in April. The timeline chronology started in April.

They really go that one wrong...

I'm just a bit frustrated right now..

Thanks for all the feedback!

feelinglucky:

At this rate, I do not think I can refile, since Ha and I have to address the concerns that were raised. One in particular being our engagement party.

There is not really anything you can do. The CO is able to play god, and that is the truth of the matter. You may file a rebuttal, or file for a new visa application. The choice is truly yours. I hired an attorney and they went to USCIS to confront the reason for denial, the people our attorney was in contact with stated that it was definately not handled correctly, and if they could they would have issued a visa the very same day, however it is not in their power to grant ANY visa, even though we proved that our case was mishandled and that we proved the CO doing the interview has intentionally lied and denied the visa there was still nothing they could do, and we were informed we could do the rebuttal which would mean the application would get sent back to HCMC cousulate and another interview would take place, and which the initial CO would more than likely be a part of the next decision as well, or we could refile a new application, and if we did that it would be luck of the draw as to what CO would look at that case. It is really sad that this has happened for you, especially with the holidays at hand. My opnion is to do a rebuttal, or refile. Preferably refile, it might be quicker since you will not be able to do a rebuttal untill the USCIS in america contacts you stating they have your case back here for the denial. Last week I finally got notice that HCMC was "SENDING" it back, strange that it has been well over a month since the denial and about 20 days since our attorney gave us the information they gor back from the USCIS in america. If you do a rebuttal, there is no real amount of time that it can take. I have heard it taking a few weeks, or a couple of years. The fact of the matter is that you can not do a rebuttal until USCIS notifies you and asks you if you want to do the rebuttal, but you CAN file today, and you can expect the 7 months or so until it is complete.

Good luck in what ever you choose.

Jerome

Thanks Jerome! I'm hesitant in refiling atm since I do not know exactly how the first petition is going to be closed. Whether or not they just let the approval to expire. Therefore, raising a concern for me to either appeal or let it close and refile to address the concerns. Does anyone else have more info on rebuttal vs. Refiling?

What reasons are stated on the letter? Is it a straight denial?

According to Ha, they stated that lack of engagement party (Dinh Hon), Ha didn't know my supervisor's name, and did not answered the month we met accurately. In the timeline I had stated we met in March but chronologically we started with April being a significant event (as in exchanged pictures). Ha answered April instead of March, not realizing that they would nit pick at the subtle differences.

I will most definitely post an update once Ha is up and can give me a scanned copy.

I still need to get the exact reason for denial from Ha later this evening. However, I did notice that our approval notice will expire 12/24/2009. I'm assuming that it was intentionally that they scheduled the interview on 12/23/2009.

The question that I have is, Will the CO still have the ability to mark the petition 212(a)(6)©(i)/P6C or after the approval notice expires the CO can't really do anything?

I created a new thread for our second interview.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=233952

Ha and I received white yesterday. It is irritating that they made their decision without looking at our evidence.

i'll post details later as I am still on the phone with Ha and calming her down. I haven't done much digging but, any information anyone can give on next steps to appeal or keep the application feom coming back to the U.S. would really help.

You're unlucky when:

1. Interview is scheduled on ur bday

2. Your fiancee takes the number corresponding to your bday.

3. And fiancee waits 4 hours just to get the white slip.

Daniel & Ha

MEMBER NAME.................................DATE of INTERVIEW...............RESULT

KSOH08 (Kyle & Hien)..........................10-28-2009 K1- - - - - - - - Blue Slip- Timeline/ List of Relatives AP

BN010809 (AnhNguyen & BinhNgan)......10-28-2009 K1- - - - - - - - Blue Slip- Timeline - ----PINK

AdamRichard (Hein & Adam).................11-16-2009 K1- - - - - - - - Blue Slip- Timeline/ List of Relatives/proof ex residence/ residence history----PINK

WRATRAN (Ngan & Linh).......................11-17-2009 K1--------------PINK

Bob-KhaHan........................................11-17-2009 K1--------------PINK

qqquaker............................................11-17-2009 IR-1/CR-1 ----PINK

cavoi xanh1........................................11-18-2009 IR-1/CR-1 - - - Blue Slip Timeline/ List of Relatives/various birth certs

nhan&huong........................................11-18-2009 IR-1/CR-1 ----PINK

DansJourney (Ha & Daniel)...................11-25-2009 K1- - - - - - - - Blue Slip- Timeline

DougandJessie ....................................12-03-2009 K1--------------PINK

Vankhai31 (Hien & Khai).......................12-03-2009 IR-1/CR-1----PINK

JimVaPhuong.......................................12-15-2009 K1--------------PINK

Bernie & Doan.....................................12-15-2009 K1--------------PINK

ThanhHien...........................................12-17-2009 K1 -------------PINK

Vietazn................................................12-23-2009 K1--------------PINK

2010

JasonandHien.......................................01-20-2010 IR-1/CR-1

VN10...................................................01-21-2010 IR-1/CR-1

Scottthuy.............................................01-26-2010 K1

80% approval waiting to hear about Dan's submission tonight...

Scheduled time for the resubmission is 12:30 VN time. I don't know if I will hear anything until early AM. But will definitely post results!

CONGRATS JIM & PHUONG!