shemarienp

Anyway, all, you all can judge however you want. It's silly of me to look for validation on an internet bulletin board, so I will stop now. People have been helpful here and have told me what I really need to know, so I have gotten all the help on this thread that I can. I'm thankful for those who have posted replies that are helpful via the knowledge they have imparted. Good luck to anyone still going through immigration.

he was never even questioned about it and had no idea she'd done time for it until we found out a week prior to the interview while researching.

What, exactly, were you researching one week prior to the interview that went so wrong? Did you have a premonition that it was not going to go well?

We knew there were going to be problems relating to the first marriage, but we didn't know what we were in for. That was really our fault; we just figured, hey we are honest people, we are going to be ok. We did some prep but didn't realize, or didn't face, just how serious it could be. I am not someone well-versed with immigration. Well, now we sure are facing it and I am trying to learn all I can.

We are going over the first marriage with a fine toothed comb, and he is very detailed. I feel like he is definitely being honest and open about it.

My personal opinion, and I realize that this has no bearing on the outcome, is that he KNEW what was going on. There's no explanation for his choice to:

1. Bail out of the marriage before the case was decided

2. Not pursue other remedies available to him at the time

Me thinks he got cold feet and thought he'd lay low for a while until he thought of another route, hoping that the dust would clear.

Or another explanation is that he was afraid that because they had the same last name, her illegal activities would come to haunt him too. He didn't even move out of the home they shared for a WHILE after she had left him. He didn't try to hide from anyone. The FBI knew where he lived and always knew that. And now immigration had him at their offices - no detention, no nothing.

Another explanation for not pursuing other remedies - how about being depressed at the demise of his marriage?

I do not understand why the holy heck so many people assume the government was right on this when they get so much stuff WRONG all the dang time? The government is run by human beings, who are very fallible. So why do so many people just believe that the government is right? This all happened right after 9/11, and surprise, surprise, they took the word of a jailed drug addict and pronounced a Muslim guilty. He should have faced this long ago, but he didn't, and that's the reality, unfortunately.

Without agreeing or disagreeing, as someone who has been through the unpleasant side of a (let's just call it) "complicated" immigration case and come out the other end, I recommend that you separate your ideas of how immigration should be from a clear understanding of how it is. There are many people who are working on smart immigration reform and you can focus some of that anger in a productive way by helping them. (Have a look at American Families United). But, for your own case, put this aside and focus on understanding the laws that apply to your case. You are going to have to know what the hoops are and jump through them. You are going to have to understand that in almost all of these cases the burden of proof is on the intending immigrant. You are going to have to make your husband understand that you need to know the details of his last marriage. You are going to have to understand that, while you have the right to marry whomever you choose, you have no inherent right to live in your country with him. You are going to have to understand that his past behavior, be it his first marriage or his being here without status, complicates things through some fault of his own. None of this means he is not a good man or a good husband to you. But, you will have a much better chance of getting through this, of being an effective advocate for your husband if you face it as factually and as knowledgeably as you can.

I'm aware of this. Although on this internet bulletin board I am venting, I do understand the difference between how things ought to be and how they are.

She plead guilty to conspiracy to commit marriage fraud, and was given a slap on the wrist in exchange for providing the US Attorney substantial assistance.

If she plead guilty and your husband is the one she married and commited fraud with, then he is also guilty and that is why he was denied. It doesn't matter whether she lied or not..... she is guilty of fraud because that's what she plead. I'm rather confused as to why your husband wasn't deported, though. This whole thing isn't making much sense. Please let us know how things turn out for you. We wish you all the best no matter what happens.

Perhaps she plead guilty, but that does not make him automatically guilty. I could see that had she provided something OTHER THAN her lousy, drug addled word, but she didn't. We're talking about a drug addict whose lifestyle was dishonesty. Hence why he would not necessarily have been deported. Her intentions were not necessarily his intentions, and she provided NO physical evidence. Had she done so, I'm sure something would have happened to him, but as it is, he was never even questioned about it and had no idea she'd done time for it until we found out a week prior to the interview while researching.

Immigration is not doing anything to you. It seems like the problems have stemmed from the AOS application that he submitted with his first wife. Your marriage is not their business, but your husband's legal status in the US is.

As for the criminal and background checks, that is all they can go on. Sometimes the wait does weed out those that were looking for an easy way in. You and I may not like the way the system is set up, but it is there for a reason. Like I said in my previous post, sometimes innocent people get caught up in all this. It is not 100% foolproof.

As has been said on this board, immigration is a privilege, not a right.

Don't take me wrong, I don't want to argue but I think this is a discussion that needs to happen in this country. Why should we make it so difficult for people to immigrate to this country?

As for my marriage not actually being their business, it sure didn't seem like it in that interview. She even thought my religion was her business and said she didn't believe that my parents had no problem with me becoming a Muslim.

What happened to 'give me your poor, your tired, your hungry...'? Immigrants were useful to America when this country was being built, but now that it's been built, who needs 'em, right? Not saying that you're saying that, I'm talking about the attitude there seems to be about immigrants. Instead of treating immigrants like human beings, immigration treats them like trash washing up on our shores. And then they treat citizens who marry immigrants like people who have married beneath their class. Perhaps I am just angry because of how things are going for us, and maybe I'm looking at things from a skewed perspective, but there IS a problem with immigration and how we treat immigrants in this country.

I just want to say that immigration is far, far too regulated. For God's sake, we really need to have this much control over people who come here seeking a better life? This is ridiculous. Quite frankly, it's NONE of the government's business whom I marry or for what purpose. We really need to put this much effort, time, and money into keeping immigrants out? When our birth rate is starting to fall? Why? The only thing we should be concerned with is whether someone has a criminal record and can support themselves here in the US. Other than that, who firetruckin' cares?

So you want every Tom, ####### and Harry to be able to just cross our borders, come here, wreak havoc and put Americans at risk?

I understand that you are frustrated that they are giving you a hard time, but understand that there are reasons why immigration is the way it is. They may not be the most efficient government agency, but when it is all said and done, I am glad there is some entity out there keeping the crazies out of my backyard. Unfortunately, innocent people do get caught in the crossfire.

Immigration has no concrete way of knowing who's crazy and who's not other than criminal record checks and background checks. They should stay out of my marriage, as long as my husband has a clean criminal record, a clean background, and can support himself. Other than that -none of their business.

I just want to say that immigration is far, far too regulated. For God's sake, we really need to have this much control over people who come here seeking a better life? This is ridiculous. Quite frankly, it's NONE of the government's business whom I marry or for what purpose. We really need to put this much effort, time, and money into keeping immigrants out? When our birth rate is starting to fall? Why? The only thing we should be concerned with is whether someone has a criminal record and can support themselves here in the US. Other than that, who firetruckin' cares?

Well if she was indicted and charged with conspiracy to commit marriage fraud, was it with your currnet husband or another individual? The reason I ask is that if it was with your husband, then there is apparently some evidence to suggest she was paid to marry him. Are you sure you know all the details of your husband's past?

She was indicted as being part of a conspiracy with other US Citizen females. Keep in mind this was RIGHT AFTER 9/11 and there was a lot of discrimination and distrust against Muslims at that time.

There is no evidence she was paid to marry him. If there were, that officer would have happily shoved it in my face during the interview, and secondly, they'd have gone after him too. Why let him off, if there is real evidence that he's defrauding the US government?

She is the only person who clearly intended to commit marriage fraud. If that is even true. Because we don't know why she would cop to that, and keep in mind she was already in jail on other charges when she signed her plea agreement.

You keep saying that she was indighted for immigration fraud. But what was she convicted of?

I think the fact that he divorced her prior to AOS suggests strongly that for him, the marriage was bonifide. If it were not, why not just fake the rest and put up with the bad behavior? Afterall, it was *her* criminal activity, not his. But because it was a marriage, her behavior reflected badly on him in addition to hurting him inside.

But that's really a side issue to his being here illegally for so long.

Good luck. I hope you win your battle. I'm glad you've got your plan B though (living elsewhere).

She plead guilty to conspiracy to commit marriage fraud, and was given a slap on the wrist in exchange for providing the US Attorney substantial assistance.

Well, if they were going to deny based on being here illegally, wouldn't they have just done that rather than mess around with all this marriage #######?

I believe when you recieve the outright denial letter, which will say they will begin removal proceedings, in that letter, it will say that he cannot work or go to school. Ask your lawyer to produce the law which shows he can work. Once the final denial is given, your husband will technically have no status at all. Just read the letter they send you carefully so you know how to proceed.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it!

He can work until he gets the outright denial letter. The denial letter will basically tell him that he is no longer legal in the US and therefore cannot work or go to school.

My atty yesterday said that he can work until his card that he got during our application process expires. Is that true?

Again just want to say that I am grateful for any and all help that I receive from the folks on this bulletin board. It is making all of this so much easier to deal with. For the first few days after the interview, I was a wreck and I think yesterday was my last day of that, thank God.

It is curious that she was indicted for immigration marriage fraud. Are you sure that is what it is? Be aware that the onus lies on the petitioner to demonstrate that a marriage is bonafide, and if the alien and USC spouse cannot then a denial of adjustment of status follows. Failure to prove the bonafide nature of a marriage results in a denial, but it doesn't automatically render the marriage fraudulent. It is just that the petitioner(s) did not have sufficient evidence to overcome a presumption that the marriage was entered into for immigration benefit.

You said he filed for divorce, and had been separated prior to the adjustment of status being adjudicated (in his first marriage). This, alone, is reason to deny the petition. Statutes in the INA require an automatic denial if the marriage is non-viable, and if the parties are no longer living together at the time of adjudication of the application. It's not simply a case of the USCIS thinking the marriage wasn't real. One of the requirements is that the parties be in a viable and sustaining marriage at the time of adjudication. If she informed USCIS that they were separated, then it would follow that the application would not be successful.

Bear in mind that with second marriages, the success of adjustment of status rests not only on the current marriage, but on the former. So, your lawyer is correct. Anything that could help your case would have to be focused on why the "alien" divorced the USC spouse BEFORE the first AOS was completed. In my opinion, he'd need to show some sort of abuse, mental or physical, in order to justify moving out of the marital homes and commencing a divorce. Therefore, in addition to supplying affidavits that state that the first marriage was legitimate, he'd better have some way of demonstrating why he didn't wait until the first AOS was complete before beginning to terminate the marriage.

The petition wasn't just denied...they called it marriage Fraud. She indicted for conspiracy to commit marriage fraud and did time. He filed for divorce because her behavior was getting worse and worse - they were getting letters from local grocery stores about bounced checks and another one from the county prosecutor. Also, she was doing drugs and disappearing for days at a time. Had it just been denied, it wouldn't be quite as bad for us.

I really appreciate you telling me this. This is the hope I was looking for. We have an idea that our appeal will likely be denied and then we'll have to go to court in front of a judge. My husband actually just got through explaining this to me after I became angry with him over this case. I pray he is not put in detention. If they deny this appeal, then we are definitely planning to go to court.

He has a work permit right now and is interviewing for jobs...what would be the effect of him working in the meantime? Will that negatively impact our case?

Thanks all for your replies. What we got was a letter of intent to deny and it was based on his first marriage being determined to be fraudulent.

I got a copy today of her indictment for the marriage fraud. It lends a lot of credence to what he has told me.

It is possible that my husband made a mistake when he was younger. I don't know, I wasn't there; but I choose to believe that he is innocent of marrying just to get a green card. I believe that he expected to have a normal married life with her.

Whatever the case was with wife #1, our marriage is true. Honestly it does me no good to think otherwise since I am not willing to divorce him at this time and we are in fact living a happy family life together. I've talked to his family members on the phone, he has put up with my daughter, who has significant mental problems, for almost two years now, and done so lovingly and with concern for her well being. Two of his friends are coming to stay for a couple days today. So we are both fully integrated into each other's lives. He's been a good father to my daughter, and a good husband to me.

We've already decided that should this not work out, there are many other places we can live other than the US. We will keep our family intact.

No matter what, though, I know the outcome's not really in my hands; the choice that I have today is to stay in the present and live my life as well as I can. So that is what we are going to do.

In the meantime, we will work on the sworn affidavits, copies of utility bills, joint checking account statements, and getting a sworn affidavit from the landlord whom they rented their house from. The landlord, I understand, had met wife #1 a few times. That's really the only choice that we have; to just keep taking the next right actions.

I have another thread where I talked about our situation. Basically, we went to our interview and we were turned down.

I am looking to try and find out how long it takes the process to work. Right now we have 30 days to appeal. Does anyone know, if all appeals and whatnot fail, how long does the process take to work through? I'm wondering how much time we have until we are done. I'm very new at this.

If this is from the AOS interview were you given a second "Stokes" interview?

What is a Stokes interview?

I have another thread where I talked about our situation. Basically, we went to our interview and we were turned down.

I am looking to try and find out how long it takes the process to work. Right now we have 30 days to appeal. Does anyone know, if all appeals and whatnot fail, how long does the process take to work through? I'm wondering how much time we have until we are done. I'm very new at this.

Were you outright denied, or were you issued 221g asking for more information?

Outright denied.

I have another thread where I talked about our situation. Basically, we went to our interview and we were turned down.

I am looking to try and find out how long it takes the process to work. Right now we have 30 days to appeal. Does anyone know, if all appeals and whatnot fail, how long does the process take to work through? I'm wondering how much time we have until we are done. I'm very new at this.

That would be the reason they suspected fraud, but it does not explain how she was charged with fraud, jailed etc and he was not. Usually, they would go after the intending immigrant before the USC, or at least issues a deportation order. You are missing a critical piece of info in all of this. Ask your lawyer to find out exactly what is in his file. It is important.

He has sent a letter requesting the information so it sounds like we're on the right path. I really appreciate your response.

Sorry to hammer on this, but this is where it gets confusing. If only she was charged, implying that she entered the marriage fraudulently while he did not, why is it grounds for denial of his second AOS attempt through marriage to you? This is what makes me think that, while he may not have been charged in the sense of going to jail as she did, it is certainly on his immigration record in a way that is quite serious. The big question for me is if this is the case why there is not a deportation order against him. If there is not, maybe it is not on his record as marriage fraud but as something else??? The solution either way would be to do what you are currently doing, so maybe it is moot. But, if I were you I would want to know exactly what is noted in his immigration file and what his current status is. These are areas that I hope your lawyer is helping with. Again, I wish you much luck.

That is something that I am not sure of as well. The officer said that the FBI did an investigation and found that they never lived together. However, I think that they are wrong, from what I have found out myself. Her sister even said that they lived together, on her sworn affidavit. Maybe it is because of this FBI 'investigation'?

Then it sounds like a finding of misrepresentation is on record from the earlier AOS attempt. This would result in a ban. There should be some official disposition given to you, if not already, then it's coming soon. You can either have an attorney help you appeal it or he can obey the coming deportation order. Hopefully you came here seeking the truth, no lies. Illegals who are not ultimately granted residency are eventually deported. You say you have an attorney. What is their advice?

The attorney is going to help us appeal it. I did come here seeking the truth and a greater understanding of how all this works. I also came here seeking hope - hoping that maybe someone else had been through this and had had a positive outcome. I'm aware that there is a danger of deportation.

My attorney's advice is to gather sworn affidavits from her family and, hopefully, from the ex wife herself. We are planning to go to that city and get the affidavits. Hopefully we can. Right now we are working on finding the woman and getting a copy of her criminal record, as our attorney advised us.

From what I'm hearing, it sounds like that is the only thing to do, and there is really nothing more than that.

actually i dont think ur attorney is bad unless he messed up something else but his reason to go to an aos interview is to make sure the interviewer dont over step their boundry. he was not there to defend his client so his not saying anything was ok.

anyway, i wish u well and hope u can straighten out this mess with the affidavits from family memebers.

That's kinda what I'm saying about him - the interviewer did overstep their bounds. Some of the questions she asked were ludicrous and off topic. Also, he did not properly warn us of what we were about to face. Anyway, that part is not just his fault, we now realize. We have our own part in that.

I would not judge your attorney as being a bad one based on not saying anything in the interview - attorneys are allowed to be present, but not allowed to say anything during the actual interview. Based on the information he is giving you that you have posted here, I think you have one who knows what needs to be done to overcome the prior marriage issue -

I wish you best of luck.

Thanks, that is a comfort. I have been asking around in the past few days and have heard from some other attorneys that he is good. It is good to know that.

Hi,

I must ask was he only married one other time? Then he married you? why didnt he aos when he got the divorce? Ingorance of the law is no excuse. The reason your attorney didnt speak during the interview was he wasnt there to prove your marriage was real and not a fraud! that was for you and your husband to talk not him.. did you know all of this information about your husband before u married him? looks like he will be deported for life if the fraud is not proven or for at least 10yrs cuz he was here illeeeeeeegalllllll !!!! it is people like your husband that make it bad for all of us who have chosen the LEGAL way to have our so here.. u know a good con artist can convince even the most smartess person things.. sounds like your husband is a darn good con man.. there are many red flags in your posting and girl u should ran away fromthis guy .. take your losses and move on for man like him are not worth the time or effort..

Your post is extremely unhelpful. If this is all you can offer, please go offer it on someone else's thread.

I am sorry if you found any of the responses judgmental. I do not think anyone meant them that way. I just think there is some confusion about the marriage fraud charge (i.e. was he ever charged in the first AOS case or did they only charge the ex?) as well as the official reason for denial of the second case (again, was it officially for marriage fraud?) that make it hard to offer concrete advice. Furthermore, marriage fraud is a pretty serious charge and puts him in murky water as you proceed. However, it sounds like you realize this and are doing what you can. I am very glad you have a lawyer and wish you much luck.

Only she was charged with marriage fraud. He was never charged with it or asked about it or knew she had done time for it until two days before our interview. He really did not fully face this first marriage until now.

The official reason for the second denial (our interview) was that the first marriage was found to be fraudulent, so as long as that's out there, they would not really look at our application and consider it.

I think your attorney is correct about getting letters from her family. Not only should these letter give credence to the validity of their marriage, but I think it would be wise if they pointed out her instability during their marriage. Does he have proof of the problems he had during the marriage?

I wouldn't do this one alone. I think a lawyer is essential in your case. Good luck.

We do have an attorney. I'm not sure how good he is but many people here have seconded his advice. I have used pipl.com to search the deep web for mentions of her, and have found many criminal cases. What we are looking for next will just be a full criminal record. All the court cases I have found are for 2005 or later. We need earlier cases. So I am looking for a place to get her full background from. My husband has her ss#.

I'm really thankful for all the people here who have tried to help me with tips, with advice, and by not issuing judgments that serve no cause other than to make the person sitting in judgment feel better. They certainly are not helping me.

I really do not at this time need to hear about deportation and how this case is headed for it, I already know that things could go badly for us. I've been crying off and on since that horrid interview.

My husband is innocent, it does not serve me at all to believe he is guilty. He is a sincere and kind person who has made some mistakes.

Agreed, that doesn't make sense. As a USC why would marriage fraud come up, and certainly she wouldn't have been able to have other charges dropped by admitting to marriage fraud.

As others have mentioned, you should get an attorney. You need to have a better understanding of exactly what happened and the specific reason that your hubby's AOS based on your marriage was denied. Don't waste time, without immediate action and advice it seems as though this situation may be headed towards deportation.

We have an atty. He has advised us to acquire sworn affidavits from her family members that knew of the marriage and have seen them living as man and wife. We already have one from her sister. Now we have to go get more.

"Pending" is not the same as legal. If you enter legally (say on a K-1) and then go to adjust status you are not officially out of status during the "pending" process. But, if you are out of status when you file AOS, filing does not put you in status. You are in a pretty ambiguous spot in the meantime. Many people who are here illegally, marry a USC and then file the I-485 have been detained at their interview. Then again, I am coming from a MENA perspective and it may be the DHS chooses to excercize this option with MENA men more often than with those from other countries.

In this case, it is unclear what status the husband had before the first marriage and what his status is following the denial of both AOS attempts. But, if nothing has ever been approved, I would assume he is out of status.

What is a MENA man? Is it Muslim Egyptian North African?