betrayed

Hi all,

Thanks for all the posts... Perfect, best of luck to you... I hope that you figure out what you want to do.

To all the others that have sent me messages and all, thank you as well.

Things are ok right now and my husband so far seems to be fulfilling all of his promises. We shall see, no?

Abrazos to all! For all you other women/men who are going through the same experience, my heart goes out to you.

I will open a new thread with updates later on... I'm ready to tuck this away for a while.

Simply put, each individual must choose what behaviour is and is not tolerable. Forgiving someone for past indiscretions is a "process". The choice to forgive may be made in a moment, but the actions required to complete the task are done over time. Taken in steps. A process much like earning trust once it has been betrayed. It is a process, and only time will demonstrate whether the OP's husband is genuine in his interest to restore her faith in him. He cannot rebuild the very foundation of a marital relationship with a mere utternace (or promise) that such behaviour will not be repeated. That will be clear when weeks and months pass and his respect of her and his actions demonstrate that she can turn he back and not hold her breath, wondering if he will stray again. One cannot "fast forward" time such that the process is abbreviated to a moment. That was the essence of my reaction, when the OP said "he has done what is needed to rebuild the trust". She has since come back to expound on that statement, and I feel much more at ease with her last commentary.

Thank you diadromous mermaid for your comments. Yep, weeks and months... I'm glad that I can back and clarified myself in terms of him working on rebuilding my trust.

Bottom line. It's up to you to decide if you have the heart to forgive, and only you know how long it

will take you to start forgiving. Some people like to look at the bloody gash from an accident, others

like to mend it right away before it gets infected.

Nobody expects you to forget...or at least no reasonable person would expect an indiscretion to be forgotten.

Even when an injury heals, often you'll have the reminder of a scar, but it shouldn't affect you unless you let it.

As for spying on your spouse....that's not trust, and it's not legal.

Hi Ling Ling,

I do have the heart to forgive, I've since figured out, through all of this posting. And no, I don't know that I'll ever forget. I can put it away and tuck it aside. Like you said, it'll be like a scar. And he's not forgiven yet, that's for sure! I'm working on it. I'm sure that this process will take some time.

My husband is working on earning the trust back. That's all he can do right now. It'll take me a while to have faith in him again.

I've never said that I was interested in spying on my spouse... I think that all of the other posts from people telling me to install spyware have gotten people confused. I said very clearly earlier that I was not interested in doing so. Just to clarify.

Thanks again everyone, for all of your posts.

mbc from K-3 Spouse Visa General Discussion to Effects of Major Family Changes on Immigration Benefits

Yo Charles!

I give up! What does mbc stand for?

Moved by Charles. I had the same question earlier...

When someone says, I have a fairy tale marriage...it makes me think that when the prince forgets to put down the toilet seat, he'll no longer be considered the perfect prince. I think, as some have said, you can be as happy as a fairy tale, but that you have to work at it.

It takes a LOT of work....not 50/50 but 100% from each side. Happily ever after is sometimes filled with arguments, late night discussions,

sleeping on the couch, crying, venting on VJ, etc. Happily ever after is hard work and compromise by both spouses. Happily ever after is not a destination, but a journey.

Happily ever after is not the absence of difficulty, but the ability to overcome difficulty.

Hi Ling Ling,

Yep, a lot of work... Thanks so much for all of your posts in my thread. You've been very helpful.

Hi SterlingGirl... I've added my responses to your post in blue below.

As for the comments on the marriage itself . . .

I think it's hard, even in a situation like this, to uniformly advise the situation with "Girl, you need to just LEAVE and never look back!" or with "Do whatever it takes to repair the relationship and make him stay with you." Relationships are just far too complex; people are too different. For a particularly hotheaded or strongwilled person, the solution may be particularly easy (to up and leave immediately) and the aftereffects may be such that she could easily live with them and move on. Someone who is more reserved and thoughtful may find it is more suitable to wait and work things out even AT an emotional expense, because the aftereffects of simply walking away immediately would be such that she couldn't live with them. Only you, OP, have to live with the consequences of what you decide, and only you know what you can handle. So honestly, advice that points you squarely in any specific direction is probably not what you need. A more introspective approach is likely needed.

Yep, introspective is the main reason that I posted here. I needed somewhere I could go to just focus on this, without my friends and without my husband. It's helped me a ton being able to write to everyone here and to see the different responses.

In my experience - and as a poster's wife seemed to have offered earlier - you truly cannot underestimate the power of feeling displaced. Now, some people may relocate and have little to no issues whatsoever. They may hit the ground running, or briefly stumble and regain their footing almost immediately. Again, people are too complex to paint with one brush - one man may not adjust very easily because, yes, he's just lazy and makes no effort. Another may not adjust very easily because he is overwhelmed, despite his best efforts to cope. Because any one person had a particular experience does not mean it is one-size-fits-all.

For instance, my husband did not have the immediate problem of having to find and keep a job; since he is self-employed with an internet position, his job can go where he goes. But, even with that advantage, he DID have a few rough patches in adjusting. Everything truly was quite new to him, not because he'd never been here before, but because his visits held no permanence in his mind. He knew he had a "home" to go back to. Accepting that -THIS-, this new country and home and living situation, is now "home" is sometimes a gigantic step. Because we, the USC's, are still within our element and in our respective environments, it becomes a bit difficult for us to empathize.

I know that this transition has been extremely hard for him; he's from a developing country. It truly is a completely different place where he is from. I do however feel that I can empathize in some way due to my living down there with him for a while (a couple of months). I got a chance to see what it felt like exactly to be in a place with no real friends to speak of and to wait for him to come home from work every day. It sucked! I had internet dates with my girlfriends back home every day to pass the time. I was sooooo bored. It was amazingly depressing at times. So, while I did this, my experience was only for a couple of months and he was not working for almost 6. That's a long time to be sitting around.

This in no way exonerates him from the cheating online, but I know how alone he felt too.

[...]

However, some people lack the ability to confront this honestly, in a timely manner. Sometimes, when that thrilling feeling has worn off, and "real life" begins to set in with some snags they didn't see coming, they work hard to reacquire that thrill, that newness. Unfortunately, they might seek this with another person over the internet. Someone they know is inaccessible for all practical purposes, but still someone who can interact with them, someone who doesn't experience their terrible breath in the morning or see how he throws his clothes on the floor instead of in the hamper, or who could scald water when trying to cook. Someone who can appreciate everything good about them, while remaining oblivious to the less glamorous aspects of their personality.

People often use fantasy to escape reality. Some people choose to focus on the nature of the fantasy - and that's fine. Again, some people know precisely how they themselves would handle such a situation and could deal with the consequences. However, some people choose to focus on the reality from which their partner is trying to escape - what's gone wrong, how is he feeling and why, is it a product of the massive changes he's gone through, or is it just his ingrained self coming out? If this IS him and not just a product of the circumstances, could I deal with it for the rest of my life. If it IS only temporary, can I commit myself until such a time when things become better. Am I willing to BE that agent of change for the better, or should I expect HIM to make or break this by himself?

All questions you should ask yourself and answer based upon who you are. No one way is correct.

Yep, fantasy is always a good way to blow off some steam. One of my personal favorite things. Again, it doesn't excuse him for what he's done, but I do understand it in some ways now that I didn't before. I will NEVER admit this to him though.

I think it gives both an opportunity to be happy together...and for the cheating spouse NOT to repeat their indiscretions.

How is considering to forgive someone, in any way advising them to close their eyes and let the spouse take advantage of them?

Forgiveness and surrender are two different things. You don't have to surrender your beliefs and expectations in order to forgive.

No one should surrender their reasonable expectations in a marriage, or surrender their character as a person.

The expectation of fidelity is a cornerstone of any relationship, and should NEVER be surrendered or compromised.

Forgiving someone for an indiscretion ONCE, and moving forward, is not a surrender.

As some have found out, forgiving someone a SECOND time for an indiscretion IS a surrender, and usually leads to more indiscretions.

I agree with you that a first offense is forgivable. I have indeed also told him that if he ever does something like this again, I will not forgive him for it. Yep, that would be surrendering my life to him with a continual amount of indiscretions. Fool me once...

He's done everything I asked him to do in regards to winning back the trust.

Could it be that easy? Really? If so, my earlier comment stands. I don't recommend that anyone exaggerate anything in the way of making sure someone makes retribution, but honestly, an act, or rather two acts in this case, that brought your marriage to its knees, and now the individual that breached the trust has miraculously restored that trust, in a matter of a couple of days, JUST LIKE THAT?

Please, for your own sake, reconsider this. It took you both many months, I suspect, in the beginning of your courtship to open up to each other and to feel like letting your guard down. It can't be rebuilt in a day. Otherwise, your reaction to this whole affair was a tempest in a tea cup. UNLESS, as I said earlier, you are generally unreasonably forgiving that he is taking advantage of that fact.

Hi,

Maybe I didn't state myself clearly earlier... I meant specific actions that he would have to do to START to win back my trust. There is definitely still a lot of work to be done, no doubt. It has definitely been weird. And believe me, I have NOT forgotten what happened. It is going to be some time until I trust him again.

Actually, it is that easy.

If it's just lust, puppy love, or infatuation, there's probably very little incentive to trust them again, or to try to make it work.

If you really love someone for who they are, and not just because they were convenient, easy, and obedient, then you'll try.

I believe that giving them your trust again does take a lot of heart, but it's easy if you love them.

I mean, if you don't give them another chance, you're also not giving yourself another chance at happiness. You'll have to wonder for the rest of your life,

"could it have worked?". If you give them another chance and they blow it....you walk away knowing that it wasn't because you were unreasonable.

If you give them another chance and it works out...what's better than that?

I think too many people expect a fairy tale marriage. Prince proposes, princess accepts, they get married, they live happily ever after.

It takes a lot of work....not 50/50 but 100% from each side. Happily ever after is sometimes filled with arguments, late night discussions,

sleeping on the couch, crying, venting on VJ, etc. Happily ever after is hard work and compromise by both spouses. Happily ever after is not a destination, but a journey.

Happily ever after is not the absence of difficulty, but the ability to overcome difficulty.

I agree that I would always be left wondering if I had just decided to leave him... I'm not ready to make that kind of decision. Last night he told me that he doesn't want to lose me. That he can't believe that he was so stupid. That he doesn't even know who he would be without me. These were great things to hear.

Relationships are indeed work. I am willing to put in the work needed right now to try and repair this...

and i have seen court cases where parents installed this same type of software on their computer to monitor their kid's internet activity and got in hot water legally.

so let's review: person owns the computer + same person installs software to monitor other users = potential violation of privacy issue along with possible court action and lawyer fees.

eta: did a brief search in this forum and found the link, as this very topic has come up before:

link

I'm not interested in this. But thanks everyone for the suggestion.

Ling Ling,

I am NOT questioning the motive for wanting to repair the marriage and the wish to rebuild trust between the parties. I am questioning the OP's willingness to accept a promise that things won't occur again as sufficient to offer her complete trust to him so quickle and so soon. This was not some simple misunderstanding, at least not from the OP's words and comments. This series of actions brought the marriage to a critical state. The OP was contemplating divorce as a result o his actions. If a simple promise can restore the trust, then it causes me to wonder how significant the actions really were to the marriage's future.

As I said earlier, I am not proposing that anyone draw out, unnecessarily, the steps required to restore faith in one another, but I am saying that if she is willing to take a mere utterance from her errant husband as enough to offer unconditional acceptance of him, she might be compounding the problem, or at least, her approach to this relationship might have caused the opportunity for this to occur in the first place.

A couple needs to define what is acceptable behavior by communicating where the boundaries between what will be tolerated and what will not be tolerated lie. This should be done arly on in the relationship. But if not, certainly after an event of this magnetism. And in order to make sure that neither breach the trust, one has to stand firm on boundaries and set consequences that will occur if those boundaries are not honoured.

I hope that my above response clears up this matter a little bit. No, a simple promise has not restored the trust that has been lost by any stretch of the imagination... And no, there is no unconditional acceptance of him either. He is acutely aware of how betrayed I feel.

Thanks again to everyone for all of the responses... It's really helped a lot over the past few days.

Now that he is home...let him know how you feel and if you see him doing it again.l.it is OVER. I would also be shutting the net off for a few months until he gets the clue

This is certainly a reasonable course for the OP to consider.

I think that would be little bit too silly. He's not a naughty kid that needs to be punished by shutting off the net. He, as an adult, has to stop his online activities voluntarily and not because she forces him to. Forcing him to stop it is the wrong way to go and sends him the wrong message, and I don't think that it would be satisfying for her, either.

Agreed...a child needs to be monitored, not a spouse. If you have to punish and monitor a spouse, the marriage is over.

Hi, nope, not shutting off access to the net. It's his lifeline to his family and friends as well. I'm not going to do that. It would be wrong. I couldn't imagine living without internet access!

If he thought what he was doing was OK, he wouldn't have done it under the cover of secrecy.

My point exactly. The fact that these were clandestine encounters indicates to me, culture or otherwise, that he knew his behaviour was violating their marital agreement. Otherwise, he would have openly cavorted without a mind to his wife's feelings.

The culture argument simply isn't cutting it for me. No offense to the OP, but I sense that he knew he was treading on thin ice, but also had reason to believe that your commitment to the marriage would mean that if found out, you would likely forgive him. There's nothing inherently wrong with offering forgiveness to someone that has commited transgressions, as long as that person is remorseful for his actions and takes the necessary steps to win your trust.

Yes, he obviously knew that what he was doing was wrong or he wouldn't have had the secret email and profile. I'm not sure that he knew that I would forgive him; he's told several of his friends that he thought he were going to separate.

He's done everything I asked him to do in regards to winning back the trust.

Ya know...I think you're gonna be just fine. Glad we could be here for you to vent off some steam.

Sounds like your husband understands the severity, and like he wants to get out of the dog-house, and never go there again.

Best of luck

Thank you!

I only ask that you keep us informed. I really hope the best for you!

Absolutely, will do.

It's funny how I then had to go and create a secret profile to talk about this whole thing...

I would concur with Sunshine. This is bothering you and you are talking yourself in circles about the issues. You can definitely use the resources of a knowledgeable and compassionate counselor to talk your mutual ways through the issue. You both have to hear what the other is saying, even if you don't like it, and then come to an agreement about how to proceed from here on. Marriage is hard work, especially in the early days, and there is a lot of accommodation that each must make for the other. Throw in different cultures, being miles from home and boredom and you do have a recipe for problems.

Two good friends of mine had what appeared to be the ideal marriage. He idolized her and she knew it and didn't abuse it. One afternoon we were talking and we started to talk about trust in relationships. I commented on how wonderful their relationship was. She told me it wasn't always that way, that earlier in their marriage he had cheated on her. She found out and it nearly tore their marriage apart. When he saw that he was in imminent danger of losing her, reality hit him hard. He knew he had behaved like an idiot. From then on his goal became trying to prove to her that she could trust him if she would only let him try. She loved him and decided she take the chance. The two of them worked on their marriage, she on forgiveness and he on earning her trust. Was it easy? No. But now, many years later they each know it was worth it. He never repeated the offense - never even wanted to - because he knew just how good a woman his wife was and he didn't want to lose her. She knows now in ways she never could before that she can trust him 100%. He learned the value of their relationship the hard way.

Give your husband the opportunity to prove that he can be trustworthy. He made some stupid mistakes but he may have learned a very valuable lesson from this mistake - just how important you are to him. Give him the opportunity to prove to you he can be trusted. If he blows it a second time then perhaps it is time to move on, but for now, give the two of you a chance. Working with a counselor will help you to address your feelings of anger and betrayal and sadness so that you can move on to forgiveness.

Good luck.

Thank you for your post. I agree that I may need counseling on my own to get past this. Who knows? Maybe I can just get through this with the help of VJ? Ha ha. Seriously, I am going to try though.

This post means a lot to me. I hope that my husband can also see the mistake that he's made and realizes that he'd be silly to lose me. I know that I am a good person. I am smart, have a good job, am attractive (imho) and I work hard to do right in this world (even without a defined religious perspective; spirituality is important to me).

Big hug!

TBoneTX, responses are below in blue.

The wife, by the way, remained single (all 33 years -- far beyond "old maid" down there!) till she met me, and NEVER would have had the patience to marry an Ecuatoriano, no man. She agrees that Peru is even worse for Machismo, probably worst in all of South America (even more so than Colombia). She says that the couple of lesser macho reactions that you mention (irritation at your spending time out with your amigas, etc.) are evidence that he has been typically affected by the natural macho culture there -- understandable. This requires working with those macho elements that you can stand.

My husband too waited a long time to get married, he's in his early 30s. I am older than he is in my late 30s. Yep, I know he does have a couple of the old school male reactions with his irritation at my spending time out with the girls and spending a lot of time at work. He actually asked me at some point after he was drinking if I had been having an affair.

She listened carefully to your situation as I summarized and then detailed it. She says:

1. Above all, do NOT in any way underestimate the culture shock, uprootedness, or fish-out-of-water syndrome. In fact, this could be the root of the whole situation.

(I will add to this my male perspective that, all too often, stuff bugs us, but we can't pinpoint in our heads what it is, much less articulate it or discuss it; therefore, we ACT, too often irresponsibly or stupidly, or at least thoughtlessly in the eyes of women. This elaborates on what I all-too-breezily wrote earlier: "women talk, men act." Now, back to the wife:)

I know that this has been super hard on him. Also that he wasn't able to send any money home was killing him as he was a major breadwinner in the family. I could see it in his eyes that he was sad. He was still so sad on Xmas even now that he's working; he had to work on the 26th, so we couldn't go see my family either. We spent it here in the city with some other Peruvians, which was great, but I know that it just wasn't the same for him, even if we did do all the Peruvian traditions. I can only imagine how I'd feel if I had to think that I'd be away from my family every year for most of the major holidays... hell, between traveling (once for fun and once to see him) and him working this year, I wasn't able to see my family for Xmas for the last 3 years either! Now he knows that it's only going to be once in a while.

2. Keep your eyes open for any CLEAR (that's an emphasis) further sign of actual (overt) unfaithfulness. Avoid overreacting unless something else happens that's CLEAR. There are obvious positive aspects to your current relationship, and to the situation, aside from his uprootedness.

Believe me, I am.

3. It's important to know either your respective ages, or (your preference) what the age-difference is and which of you is younger. If you feel uncomfortable posting this openly, please send me a PM with it.

I posted this above.

The wife is a happy-go-lucky loca much of the time (and she's engrossed in her favorite telenovela as I write this), but she is very wise indeed, and I respectfully hope that you'll duly consider her words. Gracias, by the way, for so graciously accepting what I've written thus far and for your attentive replies, si man!

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my posts, TBoneTX. Your responses have been helpful.

The sad part in all this, is I dont think he's remorseful, he's just trying to mend the relationship together for whatever reason. I would have a very detailed discussion with him, that he's at fault, and HE needs to correct it. No internet for him, no profile on networking sites for a while. Install the program that lets you know exactly what he's doing on the net to see if he's honest. I know people will say this doesnt build trust, cause she isnt trusting what he says. But he needs to EARN her trust now, its him who has to bear the burdern.

And above all, NO VISITS HOME SOLO. No visits for 2 months. He's in the US, you worked hard to get him here, here is his home. If he doesnt like the conditions, they are too restricting for a cheater, then you know he's not honest in showing you he wont do it again.

On a side note... just cause I'm evil and would want revenge on this #######, I'd make him call the girl, with me next to him, and tell her he's married, he doesnt love her, not to contact him, and all that jazz. Yes make him feel like a piece of #######, you didnt deserve him treating you like this!

There's 100s here who go through the same thing and do not resort to what he did. If he really is remorseful and you both want to work on this relationship, give him a chance but remember, he has to earn the trust back now, u don't hv to give it to him hoping this time he will not break it. All the best

We've actually talked about the home visits solo since our (my husband's and I) original discussions. I've made it clear that it will be some time before I would be comfortable with it. We currently have no plans to go back. Maybe over the summer, but it will be the both of us, if we go.

I think that my requirement that he tell his sister was big enough. She's extremely religious... I think that the erasal of the profile and the non contact with the girls is good enough for me. I really don't want them talking to my husband again, for any reason.

Only you can sort these other factors out and view your entire relationship, I was in a bad relationship with my ex-wife, that is why she is my ex-wife, and the lack of trust in that person is a life of pure hell. If anything, taught me to be a lot more careful if there was a next time. There was a next time, very happy now, ha, went through thousands with no luck, but she was also looking, and found me, she also had very bad experiences with lack of trust.

Does it really take experiencing lack of trust to be a lot more careful?

This is an interesting post... I have experienced lack of trust, on several occasions, with previous bfs. That's part of what has made this whole thing seem so crazy to me. I think of myself as a non-trusting person. I've been asked by four other men to marry them and I said no to them all because I didn't feel that they could be trusted, that they were "worthy" or that I would be happy with them.

I thought that I had taken the time to be sure. He has treated me better than any other bf I've had, as I've previously mentioned. Just goes to show that you never know...

Please do not feel like the alone ranger....I am sure it happens more than it is admitted. I like Ling Ling's perspective....it seems that you have handled the issue very well. I agree with diadromous merma....by putting it out there and letting him know where you stand, and letting him know it will not be tolerated under any circumstances. Sounds like he is a good man despite the obvious messup. I say give him a second chance but please do not throw caution to the wind!!!!!

Thank you for your post. I've said very clearly that I will not accept this again from him. That if he does it again, it will be over for me. Caution is not being thrown to the wind.

I too am sure that it happens more than is admitted. My husband was just unlucky enough to get caught.

Its really hard to have to come to the realization that the person you love most in the world is being less than honest with you.Long distance is tough and it requireds alot of trust and dedication.A few years ago i found an email to my boyfriend(now husband) from some supposed friend.Its wasnt too racy but it was too friendly for my comfort.It stated how she missed him and it was cold and rainy and she wishes he was there.Seeing that email broke my heart,and nearly ruined our relationship.He denied that anything was going on,and I never had evidnece,but after several days,weeks of talking about it I realized that i was able to forgive him,becasue I love him and realized I had to give him the benefit of the doubt especially since we had been together for 4 years at the time.

So my advice is listen to your heart,and figure out how well you know and trust him,and how much you want the realtionship to work.If you feel you need hard facts to be able to trust him and forgive him,well install a key stroke logger ,for your peacce of mind,it may also give you a better insight into the kind of person he is if you believe he may have scammed you.

Hi,

Yep, it's been pretty crazy. I know how you feel about the email. It was hard to find out these things...

I've definitely had a few days since where I felt like I was scammed and that was it. But I know that his brothers will kick his ### if he has. So that makes me feel a little better.

Ok, I expected MUCH harsher responses on this sight than what I'm seeing..... I'm sorry, but as most of us here spend massive amounts of time apart from our fiances/spouses, I'd say that the MAIN thing that makes these relationships work is TRUST! There is never a guarantee that you're not gonna get hurt in any kind of relationship (my old fiance from a year and a half ago ended up being married the whole time he was seeing me) ...that trust is never gonna come back for him, and for a long time I wasn't able to trust ANY guys!

Rant aside, I know you still love this man.. I mean, you would be heartless if you could just stop loving someone all of a sudden. But at the same time, I don't know how you can EVER look him in the face again with anything but distrust... and like you said you feel like such a fool... I know how you are feeling, and it (He) is not worth it.

This might seem harsh, and I definitely realize the sanctity of marriage, and as a Christian, I believe that divorce is a sad and last option... but I know.. if it was me, and my fiance (soon-to-be husband) ever told another woman that he loved her ... I don't care if it was "in real life" or not... it is not acceptable and it has nothing to do with "forgiveness".. we are women.. we have compassion and care beyond reason.. eventually you will forgive him and see him for what he is.. just a pathetic man who was only interested in making himself happy.. and as sad as that is for him, it has nothing to do with you. I know that you feel like you lived and breathed and died for this man over the past 2 years, and you are all the better for it. Don't feel bad about yourself or feel like a fool (I know it's hard right now), but you are a beautiful person and God has someone for you. I know that's been said over and over again... but I really believe that we as women should never "settle" for someone who makes us feel less than wonderful and complete.. I personally would rather be alone than feel like that.

I wish you all the best and all the wisdom in this situation. Everyone is right to say that ONLY you know how to proceed from here... but like I said, that love doesn't just stop immediately..... first thing is not to act like nothing happened, and the second is to ALways show your husband that you are reasonable and DO have compassion and are not threatening him with the Green Card issue. You are better than that and it will show him that he made a serious mistake in thinking that he could play with a woman's heart like that.. Maybe it will make him a better man some day, but right now, honey, you need to focus on moving past this and realizing that you are worth MUCH MORE than this man has given you......

LOVE YOU **LONG HUG** You are not alone.

Thanks for your reply... but I'm just not ready to say it's over yet. If he does this every again, yes, it will be over. I've told him so as well. Believe me, I am not acting like it hasn't happened...

There ARE NO guarantees in anything, no? I can't guarantee that I'll feel the same about him in two years that I feel now. He can't guarantee that. We can't even guarantee that our closest friends that we have now will be our closest friends in two years. All I can do now really is hope that he does what he says he's going to do. I will have to work on my end on not bringing it up every day like I really want to. I can't do that, obviously.

I guess all I can say right now is, "We'll see." I'll just wait and see what happens. What he does. So far he's made strides...

You have two options:

1.) Divorce him

2.) Accept that he will have other woman on the side. Some couples adust to this, and work out fine. Some don't.

This guy is gonna chase/flirt/date other woman, he just telling you what you want to hear at the moment. Don't be angry with him, either accpet or move on.

It's your choice........

Wow. It's sad that you think that these are the only options.

Hi all,

Wow... there's a ton of responses here. I don't even know where to start. I'd just like to start off by saying thank you to everyone who took the time to respond here... I really appreciate all the thoughts.

To those of you who tell me to divorce him, that he's a dog, etc... I'm not quite ready to do this yet. He may be a dog in this instance, but for those of you non-sinners, please feel free to cast the first stone. Not many of us can say that we've never done anything wrong on behalf of our loved ones. When I was younger, I cheated on boyfriends. I've flirted, etc. Admittedly, it was not on my husband, but we've all had our stupid times. I'm not saying that this is just a stupid time, it's bigger than that, but on a first transgression, I can't just throw all of this away right now.

To those of you who've told me to go to counseling with him in a religious setting; don't think that that would work as we're not practicing anything right now. In a non-religious setting, maybe. We'd need a bilingual counselor. Or one that speaks Spanish. I don't think that he's ready to have these conversation in English yet. I'm still considering this idea. Haven't come to any conclusions yet about the counseling thing.

I do want this to work, and as non-religious as I am (I am a deist; I believe in a god, just don't know the hows and the whys), I still want to make this work if we can. He tells me that he does too. He has treated me better than any other bf that I've had in life except for this instance. We'll see if he can do what he says. He's cut off all ties to them.

I know that this is going to be hard. He's telling me that he's going to work hard on rebuilding the trust that has been lost. I'm still messed up and tired of discussing it with him; we talked about it again today. It just came up, but not on my end. He worries that I'll never be able to get past it. I said, "Do you really think that I'd be able to get past this in two weeks?" He said, "No, but I worry that it'll be a long time. How long do I have to feel bad?" I just told him that he's got to give me time. We shall see. I would imagine that we're going to argue here and there for a little while. I just wish that things were a little more stable, that's all. I think that we both feel unstable right now.

Please don't let this become a discussion on stereotypes of men... I really wouldn't want that.

Again, everyone thank you. When I have more time, I'll respond individually to some of the posts. Thanks again.

We all like to see the best in people but if you are already married and he's out partying, he has showed his true stripes.

I think you're too forgiving.

you should make him prove it. prove that he is sincere.

you can figure a way.

if you keep groveling to him, he'll play you like a fool.

when the cops catch a criminal, do you think that was his first offense? No, it's the first time he got caught.

If you happened to catch him this time, do you think it was his first?

Good luck, hope the best for you

He's not out partying... ?

I'm certainly not groveling to him; where did you get that idea?? I told him to leave if that was what he wanted.

It may be the first time that he got caught. Believe me, if he gets caught again, it's over.

Whether you can live with this is a decision only you can make -- but at least talk with a trained counselor by yourself to help you get your thoughts straight. For example, will you be thinking that he is flirting at the workplace now? Can you handle that suspicion? Good luck and happy New Year!

I am thinking that a counselor would indeed be a good idea. And by myself, nope, that is going to be a trip that we make together. Nope, not even thinking about the flirting at work right now. They've all met his wife, me. Not suspicious about that one bit, admittedly.

Happy New Year to you too.

That's a good start. Now it is up to you whether or not you truly believe him. Is he willing to get off the computer and flirting with other women online? That is a MUST. He can NOT continue that behavior.

He says yes, he's willing to stop with the flirting online. He deleted the profile and the second account with me in front of the computer. It's all gone.

TBoneTX, my responses to you are in your post below in blue.

Yes, he's a very handsome man, and no, I've never really considered him a macho guy... I know that it's common in Peru...

Aha -- my now-wife told me, early, that EVERY guy in Ecuador is a macho, to some extent. I noted this but didn't believe it until I saw it first-hand. Out of more than two dozen natives, it was true -- every last one fit her description.

I know that there's a part of him, to be sure, that is slightly macho. But it's in my mind more of an American machoness, ya know? He's not out of control with me in any way.

I was so shocked that, during our "drag your U.S. ####### down to the consulate for your Stokes interrogation with an Ecuadorian employee" K-1 interview, I nearly obliterated the Plexiglass and throttled the jerk when he said, "pockets of macho behavior still exist here & there in Ecuador." POCKETS?! HERE & THERE?! (I'm still livid.)

The reason that I relate that anecdote is because Colombia & Peru are supposed to be even worse than Ecuador. This is NATURAL BEHAVIOR there -- objectionable, and 100% alien to us in the U.S., but ENDEMIC down there. Perhaps try to view his recent actions on a grand scale (has he beaten you? committed open adultery? ordered you to stay home? demanded every detail of every minute of your doings/whereabouts? punished you if you dared to take a night to be with your amigas instead of doing housework and serving his every need?)... and definitely watch to see how (and how much) he reforms himself. Remember that he comes from a male culture very, very different from ours.

I know that it is a natural behavior down there and accepted. But he knows what my expectations are, and were... On the grand scale, there has been no transgression: no beating, no open adultery, no ordering to stay home, etc. He has been jealous of my job a few times and been annoyed at my taking a night out with mis amigas, no doubt. I am going to watch to see how he reforms himself. I'm thinking that he'll need to pay for the counseling that I'm probably going to propose.

If he has told his sister, even generally so, that's a GOOD sign.

Like I said, it was in pretty general terms. He told her that everything is ok, which it really isn't yet. She demanded to talk to me to see if I was ok. But yes, it was a requirement of my getting over this. It's not just a good sign, I told him that he had to do it in order to make things work.

I know that the boredom that he experienced here while he was unable to work was pretty overwhelming. He was going crazy

For ANY guy -- U.S. native or foreign macho -- trust me: It's MORE than "pretty" overwhelming. Not being able to work is like having one's soul & self ripped from us.

I'm very aware of this. It was awful for me when I was living there. No real friends to speak of beyond his family, no job. Sitting on my butt waiting for him to come home from work. I know exactly how he felt.

He was like, "Oh everybody in Peru is in love with someone online." Blah blah blah. Such bs. I don't care what goes on in Peru, we're in America buddy. People in America have online affairs all the time and people get divorced too. And he expected to go back to Peru and hang out with them?! Disgusting. Sorry. I'll stop being angry now.

Sounds as though he was defending his "defense mechanism against the culture shock." However, you're right, and perhaps he needed or needs to be hit between the eyes with the cultural norms HERE.

Yep, I was very glad to tell him of this too.

He did have a very active social life in Peru with his guy friends.

And he was therefore exposed constantly to the prevailing male attitudes down there.

He didn't have that many girlfriends, to my knowledge anyway. Just a few. Several long term.

This is an EXCELLENT pattern of previous behavior.

True, bad exposures to bad behaviors in another culture. I know. I'm working on absorbing all of this. These are things that I know. I've traveled a bunch, I speak Spanish daily. I work with Latinos. Knowing all of these things doesn't make it easier to accept that it's happening to me. Yes, I agree that his previous pattern of behavior is good.

Yep, first time in the US. I know that there's an adjustment period to just being here and I knew that it would be hard, but I never expected him to have relationships with other women online. We had that kind of a relationship for a long time; the phone and email. It was all we had when I was here and he was there. To me that's part of what makes it so foul, ya know? THAT WAS ME too once. Waiting and wishing and pining for him... Until I could see him again.

Maybe because it was all you had, and you had it for so long, and he gave up his entire life down there FOR YOU, he's resorted to it not to "cheat online" on you, but as an action (largely independent of anyone on the other end) that recalls what he had with you. If he deleted his online account promptly when you confronted him, maybe that account was more of a coping mechanism than a vehicle for cheating.

I've actually thought of that too... that it was something that he missed from his relationship with me. But he should have been sending the emails to me, not them. Yes, it was deleted when I confronted him. We'll see if he doesn't create a new one. Right now I'm still pretty skeptical.

Lest anyone misunderstand: I am not (NOT NOT NOT) excusing this man's behavior or suggesting that you do so. Only you can decide what is appropriate. I merely suggest some general considerations that can affect men in general or machos in particular. Communication between the two of you is the key. Original poster, please let me know if any of the above is good food for thought or is out of line. Si, man.

Thanks so much for all of your time with this. I've sincerely appreciated all of the reminders. I will decide what is going to happen soon enough. Right now we're staying together and living together. We're sleeping in the same bed. I'm working on forgiving him, but if he does it again, all bets are off...

0nly you can decide what is acceptable . Can you forgive him? Do you want the relationship to continue? He has betrayed you and your trust. Can you ever trust him again? 0nly you know the answers to these questions.

Right on Nag

This is the bottom line......Can you forgive him and will you be able to trust him in the future

I agree. It sounds like it's time for a long sit down talk, and relly dig into all that has been going on, all that you are feeling, and ask him all the tough questions you have been asking on VJ. Your husband needs to come clean, and decide exactly what he wants as well. It will take BOTH of you for the marriage to work. It won't work just because ONE of you wants it too.

Good luck.

We've already done the long sit down talk. I've told him how I've felt. He's told me that he wants to be with me and that it's real. He swears to me that he wants his life here with me and with no one else.

I've asked him if there was any doubt in his heart at all... he said no. I asked him if he wanted to go home to be with one of those girls, he said no. It's all been said. Now I'm just dealing with the aftermath of all of this. Trying to figure out if I can really hack this.

Ling Ling's perspective makes good sense. I am wondering if he has lots of time on his hands with nothing much to do? The only serious red flag is his wish to return alone to Peru for an extended period of time. Without that, online flirtation isn't much different than married people flirting at work and THAT'S been around for a long time.

Now he's working so I'm hoping that he stops being an idiota. We'll see.

Yep, this is a serious red flag about wishing to return to Peru alone for an extended period of time. Don't think that he'll be doing that if he wants to stay married...

No! You misunderstood me. HE is not being contrite if this is how he excused his behaviour. You have every right for being very angry, in fact, if I were in your shoes, rather than forgive at this time, I would be certain to let him know where your boundaries are and what is and is not acceptable behaviour.

Oh, whoops! He has apologized for it, many times. But it's not enough right now really yet. I've been very clear about what my expecations are now; no communication with strange girls. No fake pages, no fake emails. We'll see if he can do what he says.

Boredom and not much to do, or no work permission is not an excuse for violating one's oath to respect one's spouse. There are lots of organizations that would appreciate two hands and a willing mind to help out, if he has too much time on his hands.

He's got a job now, so I'm hoping that he no longers wants to sit around and be dumb. I gave him a lot of, "Do you know what it means to be married, to swear in front of god and my friends and family that you were going to be faithful to me?" Yeah, it was fun. Not. He wasn't ready to admit truth until I pulled out a name.

He was like, "Oh everybody in Peru is in love with someone online." Blah blah blah. Such bs. I don't care what goes on in Peru, we're in America buddy. People in America have online affairs all the time and people get divorced too. And he expected to go back to Peru and hang out with them?! Disgusting. Sorry. I'll stop being angry now.

Hmmm. That doesn't sound like an act of contrition to me!

I know; I apologize; I had a moment of being angry. It happens sometimes when someone finds out that their spouse has been cheating on them. Hard to be the woman who wants to forgive him all the time...

This is a good place...but friends and family may not be the best place to vent while you're trying to figure this out. The biggest reason to not tell your friends and family about things that may be resolved is because while you may forgive your spouse and move on....your friends and family might never forgive them for hurting you, and it could make it difficult for you to move forward.

If you're religious, this may be a good time to seek counsel...but use caution when speaking with people who will judge your spouse later.

Agreed 99.44%, with the addendum that when we have arguments, tell our friends/family, and then settle the arguments, we don't always tell EVERYONE (or tell ANYONE strongly enough) that the differences are settled! Per the quoted poster, this can cause difficulties. Also, you need not be religious to seek counseling, and there may be some no- or low-cost social work outfits near you. First, though, please consider what I suggested in my post just above, because the situation could be completely objective and independent of YOU the human being and wife.

There's only a few people that I've told, so it's not going to be a problem remembering to tell the appropriate people that everything is ok, if and when it feels like it is.

I am considering counseling with him. I have health insurance, so this won't be a problem. Yep. An objective and independent view of what's going on would be great. Also for him to see how serious I'm viewing all of this...

0nly you can decide what is acceptable . Can you forgive him? Do you want the relationship to continue? He has betrayed you and your trust. Can you ever trust him again? 0nly you know the answers to these questions.

Right on Nag

This is the bottom line......Can you forgive him and will you be able to trust him in the future

I know... I'm working on figuring this out.

If he were physically abusing you...I'd say tell ALL your friends NOW, and maybe one of them would have the sense to get you or him out of the house before something tragic happens. However, that's not your case. Right now it sounds like you're hurt, and want to vent. This is a good place...but friends and family may not be the best place to vent while you're trying to figure this out. The biggest reason to not tell your friends and family about things that may be resolved is because while you may forgive your spouse and move on....your friends and family might never forgive them for hurting you, and it could make it difficult for you to move forward.

If you're religious, this may be a good time to seek counsel...but use caution when speaking with people who will judge your spouse later.

No, he's not physically abusing me.

Like I said, I've only told a couple of friends and my one sister who are all sworn to secrecy. Hence part of the reason that I'm here. I don't want to talk about this with my friends right now.

I'm very aware that there are indeed many friends who would never be able to forgive him for what happened...

Talk to him, heart-to-heart, deeply. Listen VERY carefully to what he says, and watch his body language. If you're unable to hammer things out with one or more (likely more) deep discussions, investigate counseling.

Before that, though, consider at least these two possibilities: (1) He is having generic "male" trouble adjusting to monogamy/marriage in general. Considerations: Is he particularly handsome? Did he have an active social/dating life in Peru? How much of a "macho" is he? How "macho" are his male relatives and Peruvian amigos? (2) He's bored or having trouble adjusting -- whether he expresses it or not. Has he been to the U.S. before, or is this his first time? Even if not his first time, remember that "culture shock" can hit at different strengths and times... and, even if one fully expects that shock to hit, and one tries to prepare for it, it still hits -- and it has an impact (individual) with individual coping reactions. If he's been here awhile, maybe the shock as manifesting itself like "I thought I had everything here all figured out, but I really don't."

My Ecuadorian now-wife says over and over, vehemently, how glad she is that THIS is not her first time in the U.S., because otherwise she'd be suffering like two of her amigas did (and one still is). Even with this being true, she's been in tears a couple of times. Accordingly, consider the "shock" factor from every angle in his instance.

Let us know if these suggestions are helpful, si man.

Hi and thanks for your response...

We've already had several pretty heavy discussions about what happened. He seemed genuine enough but who knows??

Yes, he's a very handsome man, and no, I've never really considered him a macho guy... I know that it's common in Peru for guys to have lovers outside of their marriages, but he knows how I feel about it. He's also expressed to me how important it was to him that I am monogamous to him. Not that this means that he was monogamous to me. Obviously he wasn't in Peru, he's admitted to "just kissing" one of the two girls.

His brothers are good people, both married with kids. His sister too. I know that they would be furious with him about doing what he's done. His sister already is as he's told her what he's done in general terms. He hasn't been able to get in contact with his brothers though.

I know that the boredom that he experienced here while he was unable to work was pretty overwhelming. He was going crazy, but I don't think that that gave him permission to do what he did. He could have talked to his guy friends. I'm sure that some of it was just culture shock, but it's still been crazy.

He was like, "Oh everybody in Peru is in love with someone online." Blah blah blah. Such bs. I don't care what goes on in Peru, we're in America buddy. People in America have online affairs all the time and people get divorced too. And he expected to go back to Peru and hang out with them?! Disgusting. Sorry. I'll stop being angry now.

He did have a very active social life in Peru with his guy friends. He didn't have that many girlfriends, to my knowledge anyway. Just a few. Several long term. Hell, for all I know, he's slept with a billion girls. That's about how well I feel that I know him right now.

Yep, first time in the US. I know that there's an adjustment period to just being here and I knew that it would be hard, but I never expected him to have relationships with other women online. We had that kind of a relationship for a long time; the phone and email. It was all we had when I was here and he was there. To me that's part of what makes it so foul, ya know? THAT WAS ME too once. Waiting and wishing and pining for him... Until I could see him again.

Ugh.

Don't do anything in a hurry,though.

I think this is absolutely the best advice

Not sure if I agree with the time away advice though.

Time away just gives both of you time to wonder what the other is thinking...doing...preparing to do.

I think now is the time to face each other, and get to the bottom of it.

Let it be known, how you feel and what your expectations are.

Give him an opportunity to either come clean, or dig his hole deeper with lies.

From the truth, you can build mountains of love. From lies, you can only dig holes of despair.

I know, I'm waiting... This is important. Believe me at first it was hard not to want to just get divorced... I understand that this is an initial reaction.

He seems like he's trying to come clean, but we'll see. Yep, if he decides to dig his hole deeper or if he wants to build mountains of love. I've already been working on the despair part for a couple of weeks now...

I hope that he's telling me the truth now. That he does love me, that those other things were used to bide time. It just sounds like such a load of poo, though, ya know? I want to believe him, but it's so hard to do right now...

Well...if you had no reason to suspect any problem before...perhaps you still have no reason to suspect any problem.

As someone said, only YOU can decide how to respond and deal with this.

That said, if you had no reason to distrust him before, then perhaps you still can trust him.

ON THE OTHER HAND....if he was in-fact having an online affair, it's still not the end of the world.

You may feel really stupid and silly right now, but you've been given this gift that may help...forgiveness.

Yes, forgiving him should still be an option. Although cheating is wrong, it can happen. You are not the first person

to ever be betrayed, and you're not the last. But before you can forgive him (if that's what it comes to)

he really does need to start being honest with you about what was going on.

You've invested not just time and money, but your heart into your marriage. Give him (yourself) an opportunity

to salvage it. It won't be easy, but few things worth having are ever easy.

Nope, no other weirdness really... I want to trust and forgive him. I'm hoping that I'll be able to do so eventually. I can't really concentrate on much these days. I'm liable to burst into tears at any moment.

He was, yes, in fact, having an online affair. He's admitted to it.

I know that I'm not the first person that this has happened to in the world. I've already done searching online for how to try to overcome this. I've printed things for him so that he can read them and see what's up... I hope that what I have is real. If this whole thing has been some elaborate scheme to get here, how messed up is he... It's just not right to do to any of the people involved. I admittedly feel bad for the other two girls too.

I know too that this is not going to be easy... to try to move past this if we can. I really just needed a place to vent. It's hard to talk to my friends about this now. Only a few of them know what's really going on. I told my sister too...

I do love him and I want it to work. Thanks for your thoughts.

Being hurt as you are it won't be easy for you to figure out what to do. From my experience, sometimes the best way to cope is to take some time off from each other, if possible. Being away from him for a while will allow you to get a clear head and cool off a little bit, until you are sure what you want to do.

Men do all kinds of crazy stuff when they are bored,but it's tough that this had to happen that early in your marriage, when everything should be lovey-dovey and nobody else should be on either his or your mind. Don't do anything in a hurry,though.

I did go away for a few days. Probably not enough in reality. I'm still not sure what I want to do. Yep; it's really early on in this marriage! I'm not making any decisions now. He's got a lot to prove to me right now tho, that's for sure...

This may get more responses if this gets moved to "Effects of Major Family Changes...".

For what it's worth, I'd say that it could very well be harmless.

Lots of people like to play out fantasies online....that have nothing to do with their real life or interests.

My wife plays an online game called "Mob Wars". The chances of her deciding to go into the mob are zero.

You haven't said how long you've been living together....or how things are otherwise.

If everything else seams alright at home...you probably have nothing to worry about.

If things had been uneasy before...this may be good reason to feel angry and injured.

Good Luck!

We've been living together since May here in the States; I visited him many times in Peru and we spent a significant amount of time down there together. I lived there for a while.

Things have never been uneasy, hence part of the reason that I am so flabbergasted by the whole thing...

I'm sorry, but that still doesn't make it right!!! That's totally unacceptable in my opinion. I hate when people cheat on their spouses!!! Why bother getting married if you are clearly not ready to settle down??? I'm sorry sweetheart... this just makes me angry! You deserve better than that. He owes it to you to be honest with you and tell you what's REALLY going on. I'll make sure to keep you in my prayers. I sincerely wish you the very best that life has to offer. You don't deserve any of this.

I agree, the online affair is unacceptable. Why did he marry me if he was still writing her? What did he think was going to happen? He could be here, get his green card and then divorce me and get someone else up here? I seriously do wonder that. I let him know that legally he'd have to wait five years after this whole process even to get anyone up here. (I have a friend who's a lawyer that I've already talked to about this.)

Thanks for saying that I don't deserve it; I know that I don't. I've felt like I've had the ground ripped out from under me...

0nly you can decide what is acceptable . Can you forgive him? Do you want the relationship to continue? He has betrayed you and your trust. Can you ever trust him again? 0nly you know the answers to these questions.

The stupid part of this for me is that I do love him soo much... I currently want the relationship to continue, but I need to know that it's real, and I don't know how I can be sure of that ever again. I'm starting to wonder if we're going to need counseling in order to make this work for me.

I don't know that I can get past it on my own. I've barely been able to eat, I look at him and all I see is a man who has been telling me lies for MONTHS... and god truly knows for real how long...

Hang in there. It may be just a relative new addiction.

LDR relationships without going any farther than online.

I hope that's true, especially after the conditions are removed.

The conditions are not removed... he just got his conditional green card. I guess that I'll have to wait and see in the next little while to see if he does anything else stupid. If so, it's over. I will not apply for him to get his conditions removed if this bs continues... I'll have my answer if he continues being stupid.