NatashaW

Yes, I did. Thank you for your suggestion. I got a form letter back a few minutes later and never heard from them again. I'll let you know if anything comes of it.

Thanks again.

Ann,

Thank you for sharing your Tbilisi experience. After you got married, did your husband file a I-130? How long did it take you to get your second interview (your first being based on the K-1 application) at the consulate?

NatashaW

UPDATE 2: We just spoke to an immigration attorney experienced with K-1 denials/revocations. After hearing our story, he thought that one possible red flag to the CO was that my fiance applied, in the year before meeting me, for tourist visas twice to the US and was denied (this is not unusual for youngish unmarrieds in his country). The attorney suggested we get married and then I submit an I-130. He was careful to warn us to be sure to still respond to all inquiries based on our original K-1. In fact, he suggested that, once my congressman confirms with Vermont that they've received our application (bounced back by the CO based on 221g), I should submit a package of materials to Vermont with our version of events at the CO interview plus tons of our supporting evidence (photos of us, alone and together with friends; chats transcripts (1 for each week), postcards, cards, letters, phone bills, etc.). He also explained that we could let the K-1 process continue without marrying, but that it would take significantly longer. Either way, he was optimistic that we'd be successful.

I thank all for their suggestions and words of support.

NatashaW

UPDATE 2: We just spoke to an immigration attorney experienced with K-1 denials/revocations. After hearing our story, he thought that one possible red flag to the CO was that my fiance applied, in the year before meeting me, for tourist visas twice to the US and was denied (this is not unusual for youngish unmarrieds in his country). The attorney suggested we get married and then I submit an I-130. He was careful to warn us to be sure to still respond to all inquiries based on our original K-1. In fact, he suggested that, once my congressman confirms with Vermont that they've received our application (bounced back by the CO based on 221g), I should submit a package of materials to Vermont with our version of events at the CO interview plus tons of our supporting evidence (photos of us, alone and together with friends; chats transcripts (1 for each week), postcards, cards, letters, phone bills, etc.). He also explained that we could let the K-1 process continue without marrying, but that it would take significantly longer. Either way, he was optimistic that we'd be successful.

I thank all for their suggestions and words of support.

NatashaW

UPDATE: I just got off the phone with the latest attorney I've contacted. He recommended that we don't hire an attorney right now. Instead, he said to have my congressman contact DHS/USCIS (to ask for them to pay attention to it, so it doesn't die a natural death; it seems if a congressman inquires about a case, they have to respond with at least a status report within 48 hours AND that requesting a status report will shorten the typically 6-month wait). He also recommended that I contact the Vermont office in St. Albans, let them know that our application is on its way back to them from the Tbilisi embassy; it seems there's a special department that deals with rejects (and rejects are lowest on the totem pole for processing, because the office doesn't get credit for re-processing them). The attorney said to contact him after trying through my congressman.

Personally, I like this advice best so far. I am convinced that no matter who calls them or emails them, the Consul/Vice Consul is NOT going to review or re-interview anyone they don't have to, nor are they going to even give us a hint as to the basis for their denial. I think we'll have better luck getting folks in the US to pay attention and act professionally, actually look at our supporting evidence of a continuing relationship, reaffirm our application, and send it back to the Tbilisi embassy with attitude.

UPDATE: I just got off the phone with the latest attorney I've contacted. He recommended that we don't hire an attorney right now. Instead, he said to have my congressman contact DHS/USCIS (to ask for them to pay attention to it, so it doesn't die a natural death; it seems if a congressman inquires about a case, they have to respond with at least a status report within 48 hours AND that requesting a status report will shorten the typically 6-month wait). He also recommended that I contact the Vermont office in St. Albans, let them know that our application is on its way back to them from the Tbilisi embassy; it seems there's a special department that deals with rejects (and rejects are lowest on the totem pole for processing, because the office doesn't get credit for re-processing them). The attorney said to contact him after trying through my congressman.

Personally, I like this advice best so far. I am convinced that no matter who calls them or emails them, the Consul/Vice Consul is NOT going to review or re-interview anyone they don't have to, nor are they going to even give us a hint as to the basis for their denial. I think we'll have better luck getting folks in the US to pay attention and act professionally, actually look at our supporting evidence of a continuing relationship, reaffirm our application, and send it back to the Tbilisi embassy with attitude.

So there were no specific documents requested? You inserted "...." in your response when talking about the blue slip. Nothing else was requested. Just the paragraph addressing "Administrative Processing?" Typically the blue slip asks the petitioner and/or the applicant to submit additional info (in our case it was 2 items: more correspondence and info about my ex-wife) for review.

What Homeland Security issues could there be with you or your fiance? Clearly this has nothing to do with age so don't dwell on that issue. Something set off a red flag.

I ask again, what are the "weak spots" in your love story that would bring questions to the mind of an experienced Consular Officer? He told you at the 1st interview that he didn't "feel right." What could he doubt in the bona fides of your relationship? That is where you ought to focus your attention when attempting to turn this situation around.

No documents were requested. We offered, but they didn't take our evidence of continuing relationship or the local Department of Justice's certificate about my fiance's address history, although it is specifically asked for in the instructions the embassy gave us beforehand.

USCIS is a "child agency" of DHS. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_and_Immigration_Services) The embassy says its forwarding to DHS; I think they mean USCIS (of DHS). Neither of us has any security issues, other than a speeding ticket I got 11 years ago.

I too believe that age is not THE issue/cause but I'm guessing the Vice Consul is adding it to her report as another factor as a reason to deny, since she thinks our relationship is fake (I'm guessing).

Other than the vice consul refusing to accept our evidence and making a wacko comment about our three-year age difference, the only other possible weak spot is that she didn't allow us to explain her perceived discrepancy in our answers to one question ( I said we were introduced by Americans, my fiance said we were introduced to each other by a Georgian. In fact, the Georgian and the Americans got together to play matchmaker for us and encourage us to at least meet each other. The vice consul claimed she didn't understand our answer but then moved on to the next question without a follow-up question.)

Having said that, I'm not sure how to fight things at this point. Other than wait for a letter from DHS/USCIS/ NVC, and respond immediately with whatever info they ask for, if our application doesn't expire in the meantime.

Do not underestimate the implications of this age difference in some parts of the world. In the FSU (and more so as you go farther into central asia) the concept of the wife being older is very suspicious. In Ukraine it is mildly scandalous and makes tongues wag and calls into question the mental capability of the woman and the, well, "manhood" capability of the man. Though I cannot imagine the Kiev consulate finding another reason to reject the visa for "reverse" age differences, they would only talk about you at lunch. In Georgia, it may raise enough suspicions for them to want to look for other reasons to reject this application. At any rate, whether they are right or wrong, you are stuck with the problem. They just threw a stick in your spokes and now what will you do? If you sort it out, then maybe they will believe you were sincere and grant the visa.

And no, the same things will not be implied with Canadian/American situations, our cultures do not care about this, but it is bid time bad medicine in many countries, and if I am not mistaken the woman in this case is the USC, correct? So you have an older American woman, wanting to marry a younger Georgian man? Very strange. Beleive em, I am not commenting on your situation for which I have no concerns (Hey, marry who you want, I am very libertarian about that) but to THEM it is very strange. Very strange indeed.

So, in short, you were not denied because of the age difference, you were denied because in this part of the world such an age difference creates such strong suspicions you simply were not able to overwhelm the suspicions and therefore "not clearly eligible"

I agree with your comments in general. Just to be clear, I, the USC, am 39 and my fiance is 36. (This is NOT a big difference.) I think the Vice Consul doesn't know anything about local culture. It is she herself who thinks our age difference is strange. In Georgia, we have met more than a few happy Georgian couples who have even greater age differences, wife being older.

Please, to other "older" women reading this, do NOT freak out; I think the Vice Consul just didn't want to give us a visa and was looking for ANY tiny little hook to hang her suspicions on. YOU ("older" woman) will most likely get a much more reasonable interviewer, so just stay calm and make sure your have your papers in order and that you follow all the tips on websites like this one. You'll most likely be fine.

It is a good lesson for all of us. What was done here is possibly wrong but now the petitioner and beneficiary have to deal with it. See, if YOU make a mistake, it is YOUR problem...if THEY make a mistake, it is YOUR problem. Your fault, their fault, ANYONE's fault, and it is YOUR problem. That is why it is best to go to the interview with evidence that makes you "clearly eligilble" It is why I also believe the USC should attend the interview unless the consulate does not allow it, the USC should complete all forms and only ONE person should be in charge of the whole process.

I agree completely. In our case, however, it WAS the USC who prepared all the docs, and I WAS there for the interview, and I DID bring TONS of evidence with us-- the vice consul just didn't accept it. Literally. Would not take possession of any of our letters, chat transcripts, phone bills, photos, etc.

By the way, according to the embassy website, USCs are not allowed to be present for interviews. I gave my fiance my passport and waited outside the building. When the receptionist heard that I was outside, she told my fiance to get me and called the guards to let me in. (Unfortunately, it didn't help.) Anyway, my advice is for the USC to be there for the interview and if they don't let you in, give your fiance your passport so s/he can show that you care enough about this to be there anyway.

It's important to understand that even though they are under the thumb of the US and certain standards are suppose to apply .... we know that not every Embassy/Country is created equally. When a visa is denied at the Embassy it's most important to do everything you can to keep the case in that Country and deal with it that way. Otherwise, it seems you are stuck in an endless pit of red tape.

If the case was already sent back to the USCIS and you have no 'clear' reason or request for further info, there is likely nothing you can do at this point. The suggestion early in this thread to marry and file cr-1 is probably your best option. However, if you do find there was a real reason for the denial, this will need to be addressed before another visa is applied for.

good luck!

Thank you for your good wishes!

If you do decide to marry and reapply again, then may be it would be better to go with CR-1 than with k-3.

About your K-1 denial, have you tried to contact your senator, congressman and see what you can do. Sometimes abandoning K-1 might help, it has 4 months of life anyways.

If you do follow CR-1 or K-3 path, make sure to send a whole lot of evidence during your initial filing as well. It will help you at later stage during consulate interview, CO will not be able to deny the fact that you didn't have any evidence if the same thing occurs again, your congressman can question CO on the basis of what was submitted during USCIS processing.

I wish you good luck

Thanks for your advice. My congressman has emailed; no response yet. My senator's office has promised to call, but isn't returning my calls yet.

Thank you for your kind wishes.

I agree, you will need to overcome why the visa was denied in the first place. If it is lack of bona fide relationship, you will need more than a marriage certificate

Then if you decide to get married, you will no longer continue with the K-1. You will need to refile and go the CR-1 route.

Background: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=185978

Now I'm really confused. I just got a call from a lawyer who recommends (after making an appointment to talk further), that I DO get married and we file a K-3, because this would give us another chance to submit evidence of a continuing relationship (which they refused to accept at the embassy).

This particular lawyer says they have experience with consular work but not with K-1 revocations/refusals/denials, so maybe I'll keep looking for someone with experience with this specific issue. Then I'll make an appointment, pay for the consultation and bring all these comments from the forum with me.

What exactly did embassy refuse for????/ Lack of a ongoing relationship??? evidence? what??? Cause getting married will not prove anything. Just because two people are marrired, does not prove a TRUE, BONA FIDE RELATIONSHIP!!!

A marriage visa can as easily be denied as a ficance' visa.

Unfortunately, we were not given a reason other than "not clearly eligible"; at this point, we can only guess that she didn't believe we are real, based on her comments on our age difference and the fact that she claimed she didn't "understand" our answers of how we met. (background: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...owtopic=185978)

I agree, you will need to overcome why the visa was denied in the first place. If it is lack of bona fide relationship, you will need more than a marriage certificate

Then if you decide to get married, you will no longer continue with the K-1. You will need to refile and go the CR-1 route.

Background: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=185978

Now I'm really confused. I just got a call from a lawyer who recommends (after making an appointment to talk further), that I DO get married and we file a K-3, because this would give us another chance to submit evidence of a continuing relationship (which they refused to accept at the embassy).

This particular lawyer says they have experience with consular work but not with K-1 revocations/refusals/denials, so maybe I'll keep looking for someone with experience with this specific issue. Then I'll make an appointment, pay for the consultation and bring all these comments from the forum with me.

Does anyone have experience with getting married while their K-1 application is being processed? We just had our application denied at the embassy and it's being sent back to the US for possible revocation/denial. We wanted to get married in the US, but we don't want to wait 6-24 months, so I'm thinking of flying back to my fiance's country and getting married there. I understand that I'll have to file a CR1 and follow through with the original K-1 process (with the added plus of more evidence of a REAL relationship (marriage certificate)). If you have any experience with this situation or know of anything else we have to do, please let me know.

Differing answers to the "how you met" question has tripped up folks at many different embassies/consulates. Did you have a short "courtship before filing the K1?" That can be a flag as well.

I don't know. Is 7 months short?

So there were no specific documents requested? You inserted "...." in your response when talking about the blue slip. Nothing else was requested. Just the paragraph addressing "Administrative Processing?" Typically the blue slip asks the petitioner and/or the applicant to submit additional info (in our case it was 2 items: more correspondence and info about my ex-wife) for review.

What Homeland Security issues could there be with you or your fiance? Clearly this has nothing to do with age so don't dwell on that issue. Something set off a red flag.

I ask again, what are the "weak spots" in your love story that would bring questions to the mind of an experienced Consular Officer? He told you at the 1st interview that he didn't "feel right." What could he doubt in the bona fides of your relationship? That is where you ought to focus your attention when attempting to turn this situation around.

No documents were requested. We offered, but they didn't take our evidence of continuing relationship or the local Department of Justice's certificate about my fiance's address history, although it is specifically asked for in the instructions the embassy gave us beforehand.

USCIS is a "child agency" of DHS. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_and_Immigration_Services) The embassy says its forwarding to DHS; I think they mean USCIS (of DHS). Neither of us has any security issues, other than a speeding ticket I got 11 years ago.

I too believe that age is not THE issue/cause but I'm guessing the Vice Consul is adding it to her report as another factor as a reason to deny, since she thinks our relationship is fake (I'm guessing).

Other than the vice consul refusing to accept our evidence and making a wacko comment about our three-year age difference, the only other possible weak spot is that she didn't allow us to explain her perceived discrepancy in our answers to one question ( I said we were introduced by Americans, my fiance said we were introduced to each other by a Georgian. In fact, the Georgian and the Americans got together to play matchmaker for us and encourage us to at least meet each other. The vice consul claimed she didn't understand our answer but then moved on to the next question without a follow-up question.)

Having said that, I'm not sure how to fight things at this point. Other than wait for a letter from DHS/USCIS/ NVC, and respond immediately with whatever info they ask for, if our application doesn't expire in the meantime.

What else, besides "not clearly eligible" does your 221g refusal say? Reverse age difference is not a valid refusal to issue the K-1....and the consul is not allowed to re-adjudicate the initial I129F, which is where the eligibility question was dealt with. So since they aren't allowed to refuse based on reverse age-difference prejudices, they have to refuse for a 'valid' reason...therefore taht 'not clearly eligible' bs. Find out what they mean, what ineligibility?

You need to immediately contact the consulate (e-mail, or phone) and make sure the case stays at the consulate and not sent back. Ask for an explanation of what is the 'ineligibility'? Its good that you contacted your senator....perhaps a call to the NVC may give you more information as to the what the ineligibility finding is.

-P

It doesn't say anything. Just "not clearly eligible". A friend recommended I file a request to see the vice-consul's report under the Freedom of Information Act; I'll do that after the Senator and Congressman have tried their best to get the consul to take it out of diplomatic pouch. When I email, they don't answer questions, they just refer me to USCIS.

A FOIA request is for after the file has been returned stateside...and it can take weeks, and may not give you any further information that what you have in front of you. Not to harp on details, but go back and search your mind for anything that was said during the initial interview and now this second one....said by both your fiance, you (if you were there) and by the CO. As I said before,....age-discrimination is not a valid reason, so if that is the case and they want to refuse you they must write a valid reason for the refusal. NOW, an eligibility issue is valid...but must be stated....what is the ineligibility.

When did the interview (this second one occur)? Have you contacted both your Sendator and congressman?

What worries me, is if they're refering you to USCIS, it means they've already diplomatic pouched the file back to the US. Have you tried contacting the NVC....they may be able to offer more insignt into this ineligibility that is quoted on your 221g.

The 221g notice was just given to us last week; do you think the NVC would have any info already?

I've contacted my senator and an aide promised to call yesterday but called in sick to work. I'll be calling her today. I visited a congressman yesterday, but his aide told me that it's "illegal" for them to "interfere" with the official process and they don't make international calls unless it's a life or death situation. Fortunately, after I stopped crying, I realized that I was speaking to the wrong congressman (I live on the border of districts and have never had to contact a congressman before). So, today I'll be calling lawyers, my senator AND introducing myself to my actual congressman (or, more likely, one of his aides).

There was no clear statement of the basis of their decision. Just a form letter saying the application has been found "not clearly eligible".

They are referring me to USCIS, I'm convinced, not because the diplomatic pouch system is so efficient and our case has already left, but because they don't want to deal with me.

Thank you for your time and for thinking this through with me.

NatashaW

Sorry to hear that NatashaW, me too i don't think so that is the main reason its becuase of the age gap im 6 years older than my husband, i was denied for my K-3 also, i'm not giving you an assurance if it helps but just try this, if the CO said that your case was being return to USCIS /NVC send a letter of appeal to this email address NVCInquiry@state.gov this is the format of my letter of appeal, some VJ,s used this too and it works, good luck!!!

Case Number: MNL2008XXXXX

Petitioner: name & birth date

Beneficiary: name & birth date

Phone: XXXXXXXXXXX

Reference: appeal for K-3 visa refused (attention supervisor)

Dear sir/madam,

(Explain what happen to your case)

Sincerely yours,

Name:

Address:

email address:

Thanks, Steveee!

I just sent it off and got an automated response that does not inspire hope:

PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS AUTOMATED NOTIFICATION

Please be advised that, as of April 4th, 2008, our office revised our

guidelines for communication between the National Visa Center and the

public. We are now required to verify case specific information each

time we receive an inquiry.

According to U.S. law, the National Visa Center is only permitted to

discuss details of a visa case with authorized representatives and when

provided with all of the following information:

* NVC case number or CIS receipt number

* Petitioner's name and date of birth

* Beneficiary's name and date of birth

* Your full name

If you are the legal representative, and your G-28, Notice of Entry of

Appearance as Attorney or Representative, is not on file at the NVC,

please include a copy of your signed G-28 showing that you are the legal

representative as well as the following information:

* NVC case number or CIS receipt number

* Petitioner's name and date of birth or Beneficiary's name and

date of birth

* Attorney's law firm name

* Attorney's law firm address

* Your full name

If you are corresponding regarding an I-140 petition you must provide

the following information:

* NVC case number or CIS receipt number

* Name of the petitioning company

* Beneficiary's name and date of birth

* Your full name

If you are the petitioner, principal applicant or legal representative,

please notify the National Visa Center with any changes to your mailing

address, email address or phone numbers.

Please include this required information on all future inquiries

directed to the NVC. If this information has not been submitted with

your inquiry it will be requested.

Please do not respond to this inquiry.

Thank you,

National Visa Center

This email is Sensitive but Unclassified based on the definitions

provided in 12 FAM 540.

Any information in this transmission pertaining to the issuance or

refusal of visas or permits to enter the United States shall be

considered confidential under Section 222(j) of the Immigration and

Nationality Act (INA) [8 US C. Section 1202]. Access to and use of such

information must be solely for the formulation, amendment,

administration, or enforcement of the immigration, nationality, and

other laws of the United States under INA 222(j) and as specified in FAM

guidance. If you have received such information in error, do not review,

retransmit, disclose, disseminate, use, or take any action in reliance

upon this information, and contact the sender as soon as possible.

What else, besides "not clearly eligible" does your 221g refusal say? Reverse age difference is not a valid refusal to issue the K-1....and the consul is not allowed to re-adjudicate the initial I129F, which is where the eligibility question was dealt with. So since they aren't allowed to refuse based on reverse age-difference prejudices, they have to refuse for a 'valid' reason...therefore taht 'not clearly eligible' bs. Find out what they mean, what ineligibility?

You need to immediately contact the consulate (e-mail, or phone) and make sure the case stays at the consulate and not sent back. Ask for an explanation of what is the 'ineligibility'? Its good that you contacted your senator....perhaps a call to the NVC may give you more information as to the what the ineligibility finding is.

-P

It doesn't say anything. Just "not clearly eligible". A friend recommended I file a request to see the vice-consul's report under the Freedom of Information Act; I'll do that after the Senator and Congressman have tried their best to get the consul to take it out of diplomatic pouch. When I email, they don't answer questions, they just refer me to USCIS.

A FOIA request is for after the file has been returned stateside...and it can take weeks, and may not give you any further information that what you have in front of you. Not to harp on details, but go back and search your mind for anything that was said during the initial interview and now this second one....said by both your fiance, you (if you were there) and by the CO. As I said before,....age-discrimination is not a valid reason, so if that is the case and they want to refuse you they must write a valid reason for the refusal. NOW, an eligibility issue is valid...but must be stated....what is the ineligibility.

When did the interview (this second one occur)? Have you contacted both your Sendator and congressman?

What worries me, is if they're refering you to USCIS, it means they've already diplomatic pouched the file back to the US. Have you tried contacting the NVC....they may be able to offer more insignt into this ineligibility that is quoted on your 221g.

The 221g notice was just given to us last week; do you think the NVC would have any info already?

I've contacted my senator and an aide promised to call yesterday but called in sick to work. I'll be calling her today. I visited a congressman yesterday, but his aide told me that it's "illegal" for them to "interfere" with the official process and they don't make international calls unless it's a life or death situation. Fortunately, after I stopped crying, I realized that I was speaking to the wrong congressman (I live on the border of districts and have never had to contact a congressman before). So, today I'll be calling lawyers, my senator AND introducing myself to my actual congressman (or, more likely, one of his aides).

There was no clear statement of the basis of their decision. Just a form letter saying the application has been found "not clearly eligible".

They are referring me to USCIS, I'm convinced, not because the diplomatic pouch system is so efficient and our case has already left, but because they don't want to deal with me.

Thank you for your time and for thinking this through with me.

NatashaW

Sorry to hear that NatashaW, me too i don't think so that is the main reason its becuase of the age gap im 6 years older than my husband, i was denied for my K-3 also, i'm not giving you an assurance if it helps but just try this, if the CO said that your case was being return to USCIS /NVC send a letter of appeal to this email address NVCInquiry@state.gov this is the format of my letter of appeal, some VJ,s used this too and it works, good luck!!!

Case Number: MNL2008XXXXX

Petitioner: name & birth date

Beneficiary: name & birth date

Phone: XXXXXXXXXXX

Reference: appeal for K-3 visa refused (attention supervisor)

Dear sir/madam,

(Explain what happen to your case)

Sincerely yours,

Name:

Address:

email address:

Thanks, Steveee!

They are all form letters. Yet each white /blue slip has information specific to the denial.

Posting the letter here or you typing exactly what it says will help to get better feedback from folks here on VJ. Just black out the name/case number on the copy uploaded.

The first form letter we got at our first interview in February. Blue sheet. highlights: "Your Immigrant visa case will be reconsidered when you submit the following documents listed below: ..... MISC: Administrative processing has to be conducted by the Embassy." This was given to us after the vice consul (who was interviewing us) said, at the end of the interview, "something doesn't feel right here. I'm going to have to investigate further."

Two weeks ago, my fiance got a phone call from the embassy saying he should come in the following week for an interview with the Consul. I flew there to be with him for that one as well. When we arrived, however, we were given a white sheet by the same vice consul (no explanation re lack of interview with Consul), highlights:

"Dear Visa Applicant, This office regrets to inform you that it is unable to issue a visa to you because you have been found ineligible to receive a visa under the following sections of the Immigration and Nationality Act. The information contained in the paragraphs marked X pertain to your visa application. Please disregard the unmarked paragraphs. ... X: Section 221(g) which prohibits the issuance of a visa to anyone whose application does not comply with the provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act or regulations issued pursuant thereto. The following remarks apply in your case: Case is not clearly approvable. Sending petition back the the Dept. of Homeland Security for review."

If the above info helps anyone figure this out, I'd appreciate any and all guidance and suggestions.

NatashaW

Does anyone have any experience with having their K-1 returned by the embassy to DHS/USCIS for vague reasons like "not clearly eligible" under 221(g)? We showed up for what were told would be an interview with the consul (following our interview last month, after which we were told 'administrative processing' was required), but instead of an interview, we were given a piece of paper saying our case was being sent back under 221(g). They do NOT want any documents; I think they just want to deny our application. (During the interview last month, the vice consul remarked "I've seen lots of older men with younger women but I've never seen an older woman with a younger man". I am three years and 1 month older than my fiance. Also she refused to literally accept our evidence of ongoing relationship; we had photos from multiple visits, letters, emails, chat transcripts, phone bills.) If I understand correctly, our application could die a slow death waiting to be processed, in which case we'll never have a chance to present evidence to a rational human. I tried emailing the consul to ask her to take a look at our file before the diplomatic pouch is picked up but she only responds that I should contact DHS/USCIS. Some friends say I need a lawyer to fight this, others say a lawyer can't help, all we can do is wait. For possibly 2 years. Please, if you have any experience with this, please give an idea of what I should be doing.

Don't dispair - Maybe this helps - I looked up 221(g) on the internet and got this (sorry you need to go to the link and scroll down until you find the term 221(g).

Go here - http://www.***removed***/visas/refusal.html

It says that you are missing some document or piece of information.

(1) Do you have a checklist of forms needed/required and can you check your copy against that and see if you are missing something?

(2) If not is it possible that the embassy lost one (or more) of your forms?

(3) Can you find out what is missing?

(4) Can you get them a copy or supply the missing information?

I'm sure your small age difference cannot be an issue. It must be some form that is missing or that the need further information on one aspect.

Good luck!

I WISH you were right; we have documentation for everything, including things they asked for in their instructions but didn't accept at the interview. However, the form letter we were given last week had many boxes for lacking documentation. However, the only non-document box on the form was checked for us: being returned for being found "not clearly eligible". We have copies of everything submitted and of those offered but not accepted. I'll be making another copy for our soon-to-be lawyer.

Thank you for trying, though.

What else, besides "not clearly eligible" does your 221g refusal say? Reverse age difference is not a valid refusal to issue the K-1....and the consul is not allowed to re-adjudicate the initial I129F, which is where the eligibility question was dealt with. So since they aren't allowed to refuse based on reverse age-difference prejudices, they have to refuse for a 'valid' reason...therefore taht 'not clearly eligible' bs. Find out what they mean, what ineligibility?

You need to immediately contact the consulate (e-mail, or phone) and make sure the case stays at the consulate and not sent back. Ask for an explanation of what is the 'ineligibility'? Its good that you contacted your senator....perhaps a call to the NVC may give you more information as to the what the ineligibility finding is.

-P

It doesn't say anything. Just "not clearly eligible". A friend recommended I file a request to see the vice-consul's report under the Freedom of Information Act; I'll do that after the Senator and Congressman have tried their best to get the consul to take it out of diplomatic pouch. When I email, they don't answer questions, they just refer me to USCIS.

A FOIA request is for after the file has been returned stateside...and it can take weeks, and may not give you any further information that what you have in front of you. Not to harp on details, but go back and search your mind for anything that was said during the initial interview and now this second one....said by both your fiance, you (if you were there) and by the CO. As I said before,....age-discrimination is not a valid reason, so if that is the case and they want to refuse you they must write a valid reason for the refusal. NOW, an eligibility issue is valid...but must be stated....what is the ineligibility.

When did the interview (this second one occur)? Have you contacted both your Sendator and congressman?

What worries me, is if they're refering you to USCIS, it means they've already diplomatic pouched the file back to the US. Have you tried contacting the NVC....they may be able to offer more insignt into this ineligibility that is quoted on your 221g.

The 221g notice was just given to us last week; do you think the NVC would have any info already?

I've contacted my senator and an aide promised to call yesterday but called in sick to work. I'll be calling her today. I visited a congressman yesterday, but his aide told me that it's "illegal" for them to "interfere" with the official process and they don't make international calls unless it's a life or death situation. Fortunately, after I stopped crying, I realized that I was speaking to the wrong congressman (I live on the border of districts and have never had to contact a congressman before). So, today I'll be calling lawyers, my senator AND introducing myself to my actual congressman (or, more likely, one of his aides).

There was no clear statement of the basis of their decision. Just a form letter saying the application has been found "not clearly eligible".

They are referring me to USCIS, I'm convinced, not because the diplomatic pouch system is so efficient and our case has already left, but because they don't want to deal with me.

Thank you for your time and for thinking this through with me.

NatashaW

How can they refuse based on your age difference? That really scares me. I am 9 years older than my fiance. He is Canadian and I am pretty sure that they are not given to ageism or stereotypes like what you are experiencing, but if it happened to you it could happen to any one!

3 years is nothing. Love is not about age. Age is just a number. You should fight this. It's outrageous!

Arabella,

Please don't assume that age is the real reason they are denying our visa. And don't let this comment from our interview worry you about your situation. My personal theory is that this embassy (very far away from Canada) looks for any reason to deny and that once I find out the official reason (after I file a request under FOIA), it's going to be something vague like we just don't seem like a real couple and age will be among the many factors cited. (What the others might be, I haven't a clue.) So don't worry about your case (on this issue). Thank you for your words of support.

NatashaW

What else, besides "not clearly eligible" does your 221g refusal say? Reverse age difference is not a valid refusal to issue the K-1....and the consul is not allowed to re-adjudicate the initial I129F, which is where the eligibility question was dealt with. So since they aren't allowed to refuse based on reverse age-difference prejudices, they have to refuse for a 'valid' reason...therefore taht 'not clearly eligible' bs. Find out what they mean, what ineligibility?

You need to immediately contact the consulate (e-mail, or phone) and make sure the case stays at the consulate and not sent back. Ask for an explanation of what is the 'ineligibility'? Its good that you contacted your senator....perhaps a call to the NVC may give you more information as to the what the ineligibility finding is.

-P

It doesn't say anything. Just "not clearly eligible". A friend recommended I file a request to see the vice-consul's report under the Freedom of Information Act; I'll do that after the Senator and Congressman have tried their best to get the consul to take it out of diplomatic pouch. When I email, they don't answer questions, they just refer me to USCIS.

Thanks for the tip. An aide to a senator has promised to call. Who should I call in the State Department?

Does anyone have any experience with having their K-1 returned by the embassy to DHS/USCIS for vague reasons like "not clearly eligible" under 221(g)? We showed up for what were told would be an interview with the consul (following our interview last month, after which we were told 'administrative processing' was required), but instead of an interview, we were given a piece of paper saying our case was being sent back under 221(g). They do NOT want any documents; I think they just want to deny our application. (During the interview last month, the vice consul remarked "I've seen lots of older men with younger women but I've never seen an older woman with a younger man". I am three years and 1 month older than my fiance. Also she refused to literally accept our evidence of ongoing relationship; we had photos from multiple visits, letters, emails, chat transcripts, phone bills.) If I understand correctly, our application could die a slow death waiting to be processed, in which case we'll never have a chance to present evidence to a rational human. I tried emailing the consul to ask her to take a look at our file before the diplomatic pouch is picked up but she only responds that I should contact DHS/USCIS. Some friends say I need a lawyer to fight this, others say a lawyer can't help, all we can do is wait. For possibly 2 years. Please, if you have any experience with this, please give an idea of what I should be doing.

USCIS Expedite Criteria

We have another memeber here that just put in for an expedite for his fiance in Pakistan for the same reasons. He hasn't heard yet.

You need to provide specific documentation that the beneficiary's life is directly and immediately at risk. What happens in the country in general is not specific enough to your case and does not prove that any direct risk exists. Good luck!

Thanks for the info!