ILoveTan

sorry.... you're right, it is irresponsible of me to not wear one ... it is only because I remember when no one did and I enjoyed it so much. Such a free feeling. We wear one now all the time since Tan got fined.

No need for apologies. I'm no Angel myself. I didn't wear one around Cai Be (the short trips), but always had one on for the long trips. I guess that makes me a hypocrite!

We almost wiped out on the way to My Tho in March. We were on our way to sign our marriage papers. An old man pulled out onto the highway without looking. My foot clipped his motorbike. I just hunkered down and waited for the crash. Somehow Ba managed to keep us upright! I turned around and started yelling at the old man and he started yelling at me. Good times!

Congratulations on the fact that you are able to return. Maybe we can all get together in November or December.

P.S. James, I'm essentially a Scaredy-Cat!

Yes, the scariest moment on the motorbike was when a little child ran into the road when we were turning the corner. We didn't see him until it was too late. Tan slammed on the breaks but we nicked the poor kid. He fell and cried but was OK (thank God!!!!!). Apparently, the law in VN is that you are ALWAYS at fault - even if a drunk driver hits you and HE dies, you go to jail. Isn't that a nice law? I can't imagine why people are trying to get out of that country, can you? hihihihi ...

Tan is probably the worst VN driver there is, to make matters worse. He takes way too many risks and is totally a rebel on the bike. However, I LOVE going around with him on motorbike because when we are stopped in traffic and tons of people are around, they always assume he is my XE OM (hired motorbike driver) NOT my lover... it gives me GREAT joy and titillation to start rubbing his arms seductively and kissing his neck to the surprise of the other drivers. Or I will massage his neck and scratch his back and he will yell angrily at me in Vietnamese: HURRY UP!!! DO IT BETTER WHITE GIRL OR I AM NOT PAYING YOU. I think I already told the story of the foot massage in the park where he did the same thing. He cracks me up.

OK all, I am off to VN tonight ... PM me if you want to meet up! If I make it out of the hotel room to check VJ, I'll get in touch! hihihihihihi I am so BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD. What do you want? 2 months without my yellow stallion ... and this time I am taking some fun "extras" that are too X rated to mention but they include that oil that gets hot when you blow on it and some altoids. YOU FIGURE IT OUT.

ILOVETAN

Sorry to be a party pooper, but you've hit on a sore spot:

Last year I was working as a Technician for a Company that provided mattresses for long term rehab patients. There were two patients that I dealt with that I will always remember. One was a 23 year old girl who was now brain dead. What caused it? Motorcycle (no helmet). The other was a 50ish male who had an indention in his head that you could rest a basketball on (it was literally that big). He could talk but it was jibberish. What caused it? Motorcycle (no helmet).

Vietnam shows effect of motorcycle helmets

Injuries dropped up to 30% after their use became mandatory.

By Melissa Dribben

Inquirer Staff Writer

HANOI, Vietnam - About a year ago, Rose Moxham, an Australian writer living in Hanoi, stopped at a red light on her motorbike. Some of her fellow travelers stopped as well. But not all.

To understand what happened next, it helps to know a couple of things: Ninety percent of the vehicles on Vietnam's roads are motorbikes and until Dec. 15, 2007, fewer than 10 percent of riders wore helmets. The second is that, in this rapidly developing country, traffic controls are - like the Pirate's Code in Pirates of the Caribbean - more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules.

"It happened very quickly," Moxham recalls. "A young woman on her motorbike was knocked from behind. She dropped her bike, fell off, hit her head on the road and died. Just like that." She shakes her head. "Dead."

During the previous 18 months, Moxham says, she'd seen traffic in this capital soar, and along with it, a mounting carnage. Government estimates put the death rate at 30 a day - like losing a 737 planeload of passengers every two weeks.

"We were seeing dead bodies everywhere," she says. "The traffic here is so awful and it has become exponentially worse within less than a year."

On Dec. 15, however, Vietnam enacted Resolution 32, its mandatory helmet law.

Since then, officials report a drop of 20 to 30 percent in traumatic head injuries and deaths from motorbike accidents, making it one of the world's most successful public-health initiatives in years.

That good news arrived almost to the day that, halfway around the world, the University of Pittsburgh released a report showing that since 2003, when Pennsylvania repealed its mandatory helmet law for motorcycle riders, head injuries and deaths have risen sharply: an estimated 32 percent increase in head-injury deaths and 42 percent rise in head-injury-related hospitalizations.

"The countries that adopt and enforce helmet legislation reduce injuries and deaths. And the states that repeal them see an increase," says Etienne Krug, director of Violence and Injury Prevention and Disability for the World Health Organization in Geneva, Switzerland. "It's just a fact."

As any casual observer in Hanoi can see, the Vietnamese are obeying their new helmet law at extraordinarily high rates. Some put the figure at 90 percent compliance.

"I started wearing one when the government insisted on it," says Bui Thi Thao, 23, a graduate of the Hanoi Open University with a degree in hotel management. "At first it was uncomfortable, but now I'm used to it."

Shops display the utilitarian headgear in every style and shade from camo to cotton candy, stacking them like coconut shells. Men here aren't afraid, by the way, to sport pink ones. But women who ride their motorbikes to work in spiked heels and tailored suits have taken the stylistic lead. They now accessorize with sunhat-style brims in pastels and lace, florals and Burberry plaid that slip over their helmets and can be changed daily to match their outfits.

Numerous nonprofits and nongovernmental organizations have been working for years throughout Asia and Africa to promote the use of helmets. But just as in the United States, there has been resistance because riding bare-headed simply feels better.

In Vietnam, climate complicates the problem. Heavy motorcycle helmets were dubbed "rice cookers" for reasons that are drenchingly obvious to anyone acquainted with the summer's heat and humidity.

"The goal was to get as many helmets on as many heads as possible," says Terry Smith, a member of the board of the nonprofit Asia Injury Prevention Foundation. "The victim in many of these accidents is the wage earner. So when he gets injured, the social cost is enormous."

Smith, who has a doctorate in biomechanics and works for Dynamic Research Inc., a helmet testing lab in California, helped develop a helmet that was lightweight and ventilated enough to suit the country's tropical conditions.

These helmets are now being produced in a factory on the outskirts of Hanoi and sell for about $10 - about the same as the cost of the fine if police catch you without one. For the typical citizen, whose annual income is less than $800, those fines provide a powerful incentive to wear - if not necessarily properly fasten - the headgear.

During the first few weeks men, women and children all wore helmets, even though the law requires helmets only on children over 14. But then rumors began circulating that even the smallest helmets are too heavy for a child's small neck to support.

Outside Huu Nghi Viet Duc hospital, a large glass-enclosed bulletin board serves as a warning of the risks of overloading motorbikes, and neglecting to put helmets on children. It contains large photos in full, garish, bloody detail showing children with crushed skulls and limbs from motorbike accidents.

The prevailing wisdom, however, maintains that children are safer without. So now mothers on motorbikes dash through the city with bare-headed babies lying across their laps. And parents, both wearing helmets, sandwich their toddlers between them, covering them with tentlike nylon ponchos when it rains - but never a helmet.

Full-face motorcycle helmets surely would be too much for a child, said Smith. But the benefits of lightweight, kid-size versions, he says, "far outweigh any problems that may be associated with neck strain."

"The arguments we're hearing are 'I'm not riding fast' or 'I'm protecting my child,' " said Smith. But as the accident that Rose Moxham witnessed shows, you don't have to be moving at all to suffer a fatal fall.

"You're falling from five or six feet up," said Smith, "onto a flat surface. Before parents can do anything, it's over. Accidents occur quickly."

Not all victims, of course, are on bikes.

To cross a street in Hanoi requires an act of faith. With over 60 percent of the nation under age 30, a noticeable contingent of riders is fueled by youthful impatience and testosterone. They text while driving, whip by pedestrians within a heart-attack's breadth, and weave in and out of traffic.

Pedestrians learn to cross streets steadily and slowly, while the honking flocks of motorbikes approach, part, fly around them, regroup and carry on.

The chaotic courtesy impressed Seymour Papert, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor and expert in artificial intelligence. Papert was at a conference in Hanoi in 2006. On the last day, walking from his hotel to the meeting, he was talking to a colleague about creating a mathematical model of Hanoi's traffic when he was hit in the chest by a motorbike.

After weeks in a coma, he was airlifted back to Massachusetts. Several surgeries and months of rehabilitation later, he now lives in Maine, severely debilitated.

In America, some states that repealed helmet laws have reinstituted them after watching rates of death and injury from head trauma rise. The Pittsburgh study, however, has not moved Gov. Rendell to consider changing course.

"The governor understands the statistics," says Chuck Ardo, Rendell's press secretary. "And he encourages all motorcycle riders to wear a helmet. But he believes it is a matter of personal choice."

As Pennsylvania's ardent anti-helmet groups have maintained, the protection helmets provide is no guarantee of safety in all circumstances.

For example, in Hanoi two weeks ago, Moxham spent the afternoon at the bedside of her friend, Hania Galan.

Galan, a young Canadian artist and former teacher at the U.N. Independent School, was found by the side of the road on June 9, her motorbike by her side. Her friends have heard that a motorbike cut her off and she swerved into a concrete barrier.

"She's been in a coma," Moxham said. "Someone found her and dropped her off at the hospital. She was wearing a helmet."

An e-mail circulated among Galan's friends last week reported that she opened her eyes in response to her name. Her family was joining her, and there were plans to have her flown back to Canada as soon as possible.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/health_scie...le_helmets.html

sorry.... you're right, it is irresponsible of me to not wear one ... it is only because I remember when no one did and I enjoyed it so much. Such a free feeling. We wear one now all the time since Tan got fined.

Now is your big opportunity to find out if all my big talk is true hihihihi anyone in VN now or coming up soon, drop me a PM ... we can meet up for a drink. I am not sure I will be in Saigon the whole time, I really miss his family and want to go see them in Nha Trang. But we are having a vacation first in Saigon ... dancing and drinking at APOCOLYPSE - here I come! woooooo

I really need this and so does he.

p.s. what signatures do I need from him? G-325 (how many times?) and fiance letter of intent to marry, right? Just the 2 forms and a passport picture from him? Anything else for the I-129f?

Thanks for all your support! Would love to meet anyone from VJ. Have already met PeterFB, wonderful person! Never give up the fight ... there are some very good people here and we will all triumph if we have love and faith!

*hugs*

BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (plane is tonight! ohhhhh going to be kissing my jungle boy in a day and a half ....oohhhhhhh ohhhhh eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee)

ILOVETAN

I'm in district 8 right now with my wife. We spent 300,000d a night for a new vip suite and the staff is awesome. Hoang Kim is the name. Only 4 floors but quiet and nice. 200,000d for a lesser room but just as nice and always hot water and fresh towels. I stayed at Hotel Metropole last time at $180 usd a night. This is wayyyyyy better. There is a restruant up the street that delivers great american Italian food called the Red Tomato, great food, Home away from Home

Jim and Nhi

Hi, can you give me the name of the district 8 hotel with vip suite? Got a tub? I have heard of the Metropole but wow, I heard it was $40 a night ... INFLATION IS A B*TCH.

ILOVETAN

One big question for you Thuy: Are you a motorbiker, or a scaredy-cat? If you are a scaredy-cat, it's going to take a LOT more money to live comfortably in Saigon. And don't worry, my wife's a scaredy-cat when it comes to Saigon. She absolutely refused to go anywhere by motorbike the whole time, despite constant wheedling from me and our host.

Now now James, you should know the answer to that question without even asking. Look who you are talking to here!!! It's ME, crazy wild woman. OF COURSE I love the motorbikes. I even got Tan pinched by the cops because I was always encouraging us NOT to wear our helmets! I can even drive one (poorly - scaring the beejesus out of poor Tan, hihihi). Hell, I used to make him take me zipping around through the mountain areas of Nha Trang ... there is a waterfall up there ... no people .... and we would .... well, YOU figure it out. Is it any wonder he is begging me to come back?

ILOVETAN

I need to find some good hotels also to stay in HCMC. I haven't spent much time in the city, but i hear its a lot of fun. I spent most of my time in the countryside.

Rodney

How much do you want to spend a night? I know a few good ones but I just don't want to stay at the same old places I always do ... Tan and I need a change up. He is going down the crapper without me. AAAAA sensitive Vietnamese. I used to always ask, why can't I find a sensitive man who shows his feelings and cries?? .... now I have an OVERLY sensitive man who cries TOO MUCH and wants to tell me every feeling he has, every second he has one (including when he needs to use the toilet, I get to know IT ALL ). Be careful what you wish for!

ILOVETAN

Xin Chao Em Yeu Tan,

http://www.ananhotel.com/modules.php?op=mo...q=accommodation

Chuc Mai Man

Anh Patrick

Chao Anh ... anh co biet An An Hotel co bon` tam' khong? Rat la vui bon` tam' voi nguoi yeu cua em chu! ;-) hihihihihi

Thuy

Ok all, I need you again ... know any hotels in Saigon that are TALL? As in more than 8 floors? Looking for a TALL hotel, in the $25-$45 price range, clean, A/C, BIG BED ... would love your input. I just don't want to stay at the same ones I have always stayed at. My favorite high hotel has gone UP in price to over $50. A bit much for me. I guess I am on my way back to VN AGAIN. Crazy crazy woman.

ILOVETAN <~~~~NO SH*T, I must!

Well, here's the scoop ... I don't think Tan nor I can endure months apart. I am trying to find out how possible it would be for me to live and work in Vietnam for half a year. A few question for those of you who know ....

1. How much are apartments to rent in Saigon? Ballpark. I guess we would want something decent, air conditioning, nice bathroom ... doesn't have to be the best but wouldn't want it to be the worst.

2. Is there a lease? How long?

3. If I want to get certified now for teaching English, I need the TESL, is that right? Does anyone know, can that be done online from anywhere or do I need to be in America to get the degree?

4. If you know, how much does it cost to get the degree needed for teaching English?

Thanks so much everyone, just trying to make some plans. I really never anticipated that this would happen, I thought Tan would be my motivation to keep working on my projects in America, but we are both simply falling apart. 2 mental basket cases, who could possibly make a better couple?

In the paranoid north, we never had a problem staying together in the same room, ever. In Saigon, we had to deceive a bit. Luckily, we had 2 couples, which allowed us some room for deception.

Yes - Tan and I also had no problems staying in Hanoi together (or Dalat, for that matter). James oi ... send me a PM, what's the status?? Hieu kg?

What is funny about this thread is that in VN, they all throw the story around that pregnancy ensures a pink slip. The consulate knows this one, I think ...

Hi all! Does anyone know if the photos have to be a certain size...ie... 4x6 or 3x5??? And if they are ok to be color printed from home?

thanks everyone!

I have been told the same - any size, shape, color, originals, copies, printed of the puter. Up to you... I am printing mine from my computer. This is nerve-wracking isn't it?

ILOVETAN

ILoveTan,

Good question but you worry too much .

Kevin & Loan: I think what you wrote about falls into the "NO SH*T" category.

I really DO worry too much - I have a personality much like a Viets - worry, overthink, worry, overthink. Now I am stressed I have TOO MUCH proof and they will think I orchestrated it that way. EGADS.

I did stay at one 3 star for $40 a night (a fun $700 for our stay there) - they had no problem with us both staying. BUT, I had been there before and I am quasi famous in VN no, seriously ... a white girl who speaks viet like they do and makes jokes non-stop with them is very well liked. I go to VN for the Vietnamese PEOPLE, not the country, and they know that. I buy dinners for my Xe-Om (motorbike drivers), and invite everyone everywhere. Very few foreigners spend hours chatting with street people, employees, motobike drivers, like I do. And I don't stay in just the city, like most foreigners - I go out to the countryside - places they have never even SEEN a white person ... oooh, they follow me around in groups. It's really neat for them, like an Alien just landed in their crops. In a way, it's hard for me to imagine these people scamming because they show you EVERYTHING they are feeling.

I even asked the employees at the 3 star hotel I mention above to go out dancing with me and Tan in Saigon. hihihi, we ended up at some ALL viet club (no foreigners) and there I am on the dance floor, getting hugged by 5 or 6 viets as we bounced up and down (vietnamese call it "dancing" ). VN is the only place I feel free to love everyone equally and with a whole heart ... I wish I felt safe enough to be like that in in my own country ...

Shoot, I wish the consulate could just visit any restaurant or hotel we were at together - everyone knows us by name. We show up at Quan An Ngon in saigon - famous restaurant there - and get greeted with squeals, hugs, and about 10 people coming up and going: "THUY OI!!!! Thuy o VN luon di!" hihihih (Stay in Vietnam forever!) I am addicted to viet affection, what can I say? Tinh cam cua nguoi vn lam Thuy cam dong nhieu ....

Sooooo .... paranoid question: DO I HAVE TOO MUCH PROOF? I suppose I am being ridiculous ... no one stays in VN 3 months the first time if they aren't serious - why not just stay 2 weeks like most people? OK SHUT UP THUY. IM DI THUY.

OHHHHH p.s. Not that I need to justify (but am about to) but TAN LOVES ME, listen to this: He had been crabby for the past 2 weeks - totally unlike his personality as I have ever known it. Short-tempered, complaining, really a sour-puss. He kept saying he didn't feel well and just missed me, but nothing more. I really didn't understand his personality change. Yesterday, he was finally his old self again and he said he wanted to tell me the truth about something if I promised not to get mad. I said, I am never mad when it is the truth. He said that he was like that because he was getting some "threats" by someone in his past because of a debt he owed them. Because right now he is in Saigon but his house is in Nha Trang, I guess this guy he owed money to was threatening his MOM. He didn't have the money to pay and didn't know what to do about it but didn't want me to think he was a "bad boy" because he had a debt (like Americans don't - the only difference is our creditors don't threaten to hurt family members). So he went ahead and SOLD HIS MOTORBIKE to pay the debt. This is huge, people ... motorbikes are everything in VN. So my point is: I think we can all rest assured he is not just using me. Why not ask his American fiancee for the money??? That is what I call integrity. I am so impressed with him right now, I can't tell you. He is now looking for work to buy a new motorbike for when I come back to VN. (YES, I WILL BUY HIM ONE - but the point is, he never asked me for anything).

Ok, I am gushing (AGAIN) I REALLY LOVE THIS SHORT SKINNY YELLOW MAN OK?!?!?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

fini

Thuy

Well my fiancee went back to turn in the requested information per the blue slip last Thursday. Apparently the consulates office told her that they are not accepting blue slips and that she will have to come back on Monday. She went back yesterday with all of the information in hand and apparently they canceled the petition and are sending it back to the US. I really don't understand how they can do this after we have given everything and more of what they requested. I even had my congressman contact the consulate after the last incident. We both are so distraught right now and don't know what to do. She is supposed to be sending me the denial slip soon.

Has anyone else ever been through this or no of anyone who has? If so what did you/they do?

I just want to say I am SO SORRY you are going through this. I feel very bad for what you are going through. I just think too many "relative introductions" have been scams in the past and it just makes the consulate jaded. However, they should not assume just because you met through relatives that the relationship isn't a real one. They should look at ALL the evidence as a whole, not one thing.

I forgot to ask you, your best friend introduced you guys, right? How is HE related to her?

Anyways, take care of yourself and never give up the fight...

ILOVETAN

It is a good question. If your genders were reversed I say don't use it, but I doubt they would ever accuse you of hiring your fiance as a male prostitute. I guess you never know though. Kind of a silly rule if you think about it. Guests had to leave by 10 if I'm not mistaken- because people don't have sex before 10 pm. They used to care when we stayed at hotels though. We used to have to rent a second room.

This post is great. And absolutely true. NO ONE has sex before 10pm. In fact, I don't think Tan could even "perform" with himself before that hour rolls around. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH this is great.

I know damn well I get special treatment in VN because here is another secret about VN culture. If Vietnamese like you it's like this: "Rules, what rules?? High price, what price?? THIS IS FREE!" Great personality trait IF they like you! :-) hihihihi

Yes, I don't think anyone thinks I hired Tan for sex (although if I had known of his skills earlier, I might have!)

ILOVETAN

OK - the law in Vietnam is that a foreigner can't stay with a Vietnamese in a hotel room unless they are married. They can visit the room, but not stay overnight. Now, of course, we ALL know that the hotels allow it anyway most of the time. Here is my question:

I stayed in a bunch of hotels with Tan and have receipts for many of them where the hotel wrote BOTH our names. I thought this would make good proof - on the other hand, will the consulate think they are fake receipts because the "law" in VN doesn't allow that?? But we really did stay together in those hotels and they really DID write both our names on the receipt, including one that can't be faked where it was a print out that had both our names. Hmmmmmmmm .... any thoughts?

ILOVETAN

I called on VJ members for help to get a hold of the NVC. You guys' answers are fantastic, especially lostgurl18 who advised me to email the NVC. I've just got an email from the NVC answering my inquiry to my wife's Interview Date.

That Date is August 8, at the US Consulate in HCMC.I'm so happy right now, I can barely hold it off from waking my wife up to share the good news as she's asleep right now (it's 5AM in Vietnam)

Thank you, my VJ community. You've been a great source of assistance and encouragement to me. I wish y'all luck so that you will reach your goal here as soon as it can get. (reunion with your loved ones, get your citizenship etc.)

Thanks again, lostgurl18, big huggg

kilun

THIS IS A VERY VERY LUCKY DAY! My grama was a very special woman (the only American I really ever loved) hihihi but seriously, she was born on this date and she had the true love that last forever .... I wish you the same

*hugs*

Thuy

And Ilovetan, it's not necessary to translate your emails. They always have vietnamese staff in the Consulate; they should be able to handle it with ease. My chat logs are viet too (my wife does not speak or read english). Think about it: they conduct most of the immigrant visa interviews in vietnamese, then why is the language of these emails a problem? It'll be a problem only if the petitioner's language is different than the beneficiary's language, and neither of the two makes efforts to improve their COMMUNICATION, which is a must to determine if the relationship is bonna fide.

Ok 2 questions for ya kilun:

1. how do you EDIT chats? Are you blacking out things with a marker? (will take me 100 hours to read all of mine, but ok) or actually putting them in word and editing? If you put them in word, don't you lose the formatting (smiley faces, colored text, etc?) HELP.

2. I am the petitioner, I am not Viet Kieu ... I am white American but I SPEAK Vietnamese. You probably are aware how RARE this is. How do I prove it? The consulate is flat out not going to believe that some white girl wrote 10 page love letters in Vietnamese (but I did) - I am really really fluent (80%) and can read and write more than I even speak. I state in my letter that I have studied the language but you know that Americans can study Vietnamese for YEARS and never speak clearly. I met foreigners who had lived in Vietnam 10 years and didn't speak nearly as good as I do after only 2 years of study - and they don't read or write it. AAAA. PLUS, our emails and chats are without SYMBOLS ... will they really think some white person can understand Vietnamese without the symbols? (but I do)

As far as my chats and emails go ... ohmygosh, the whole damn thing with be blacked out if I start editing ... Tan writes about 2% in english and basically 3 words: That, even, f***ing. A sample email of ours may cover everything from communism, to dirty sex talk, to the devil, to .... uhhhh and we NEVER NEVER ask each other about the weather or our day. I don't have emails like: "Today I went to the supermarket and bought some new soy sauce. Later, I met my friends for coffee and we talked about my new hairstyle". Sorry, I just don't! What is he going to say about his day? "Today I ate PHO ... AGAIN."

Sample chat:

Tan: f***

Thuy: f*** you look sexy

Tan: f*** I miss you f***

Thuy: me too, f***, this sucks

Tan: aaaaaaaaaa f*** the f***ing rules - give me the pink motherf***er.

WOOHOO THE IMMIGRATION VISA PROCESS IS FUN!

Thuy

Hi, Thuy.

1. I copy the thing to word then edit it in there. Ofcourse, I'd lose the smileys, the audibles and all the fancy text, but I don't think anybody would care. The communication is clearly there, that's all that they want to see (if they'd ever). I don't use markers; it makes the whole thing look suspicious like, ok you've got sumthin' t' hide?

2. I've read your posts from the beginning (that's a lot of reading!), and I'm well aware of your situation. My personal opinion is: your case is sooo special and unique; that would only make it stronger in the eyes of the people handling it. I mean, what kind of money would make a beautiful and priviledged Californian girl to go into the tropical jungle and live with mosquitos? It's common sense to see that only LOVE would make you go a great length through that much trouble. It's not just wishful thinking, believe me. Just read through stories of the people form our very own VJ community; you'll see that TRUE LOVE, with persistence, will prevail at the end. If you wrote 10 pages worth of love letters in Vietnamese, have Tan bring them to the interview. It'll be better if you wrote them with your hand writing, I think. Again, there's no point in translating chat or emails. If you do that, they're not gonna believe Tan could read all that. Truth is, Vietnamese is the PRIMARY language of your communication, so you'd better leave it as it is.

Good luck to you both on your visa journey and your lives together.

BTW, I'm curious about whether you viet name has an accent mark. Is it Thủy (water), Thùy (tender), Thúy (deep), or Thụy (luck)

kilun (ki the shorty)

Chao anh, em ten la Thuy (co dau hoi) nhung em kg chon ten nay vi y nghia la nuoc ... em chon ten nay vi y nghia la CHUNG THUY vi em chung thuy cho nguoi vn. Em tin ben trong em la nguoi vn ... em la nguoi my ben ngoai thoi ... hieu kg anh oi? ;-) Cam on rat nhieu anh ... anh viet message de thuong qua, cho em hy vong .. xin cam on

Thuy

And Ilovetan, it's not necessary to translate your emails. They always have vietnamese staff in the Consulate; they should be able to handle it with ease. My chat logs are viet too (my wife does not speak or read english). Think about it: they conduct most of the immigrant visa interviews in vietnamese, then why is the language of these emails a problem? It'll be a problem only if the petitioner's language is different than the beneficiary's language, and neither of the two makes efforts to improve their COMMUNICATION, which is a must to determine if the relationship is bonna fide.

Ok 2 questions for ya kilun:

1. how do you EDIT chats? Are you blacking out things with a marker? (will take me 100 hours to read all of mine, but ok) or actually putting them in word and editing? If you put them in word, don't you lose the formatting (smiley faces, colored text, etc?) HELP.

2. I am the petitioner, I am not Viet Kieu ... I am white American but I SPEAK Vietnamese. You probably are aware how RARE this is. How do I prove it? The consulate is flat out not going to believe that some white girl wrote 10 page love letters in Vietnamese (but I did) - I am really really fluent (80%) and can read and write more than I even speak. I state in my letter that I have studied the language but you know that Americans can study Vietnamese for YEARS and never speak clearly. I met foreigners who had lived in Vietnam 10 years and didn't speak nearly as good as I do after only 2 years of study - and they don't read or write it. AAAA. PLUS, our emails and chats are without SYMBOLS ... will they really think some white person can understand Vietnamese without the symbols? (but I do)

As far as my chats and emails go ... ohmygosh, the whole damn thing with be blacked out if I start editing ... Tan writes about 2% in english and basically 3 words: That, even, f***ing. A sample email of ours may cover everything from communism, to dirty sex talk, to the devil, to .... uhhhh and we NEVER NEVER ask each other about the weather or our day. I don't have emails like: "Today I went to the supermarket and bought some new soy sauce. Later, I met my friends for coffee and we talked about my new hairstyle". Sorry, I just don't! What is he going to say about his day? "Today I ate PHO ... AGAIN."

Sample chat:

Tan: f***

Thuy: f*** you look sexy

Tan: f*** I miss you f***

Thuy: me too, f***, this sucks

Tan: aaaaaaaaaa f*** the f***ing rules - give me the pink motherf***er.

WOOHOO THE IMMIGRATION VISA PROCESS IS FUN!

Thuy

Hi all ... the truth is, I appreciate everyone's posts and input. Everyone has their own slant and take and it's helpful to hear all opinions, that is why I post here.

I understand pushbrk, he is very very straight-forward. But I do also appreciate comments like from Laura-and-Nick because staying positive is also essential in this process. As a personal note to Kim & Russ - love you, love you, love you!

Yes, we need the facts in this journey but we also need faith and positive thinking. I am not a "religious" person in the sense of the word but I do believe in something bigger than myself. I do not think God would have brought me and Tan together (in the bizarre way we met - and it is more bizarre than I have ever posted publically) and all the circumstances surrounding our relationship that are just too strange to be anything other than true destiny. He is from Nha Trang Vietnam ... even before I ever met him, I had TWO different "psychics" tell me that I had a destiny in Nha Trang, that something in Nha Trang would change my life. 2 different people said the same thing to me, 1 of them didn't even know I had ever been to Vietnam or could even speak the language. Just another white person who said the word "Nha Trang" kept coming in her head when she looked at me, and she didn't even know where that was. Yes, I know it sounds unbelievable but it's the truth.

Yes, we have a real love together. A love like I never thought was even possible except in storybooks. I know my letter should be, just the facts, M'aam - but (at least in the past) wasn't this process supposed to be about LOVE? But now it is to my detriment if I express that I LOVE him and he LOVES me? That makes no sense. Now I have to worry if the consulate/uscis will think I am just a naive girl getting "taken" by a very skilled Vietnamese man from the countryside? Just how stupid am I? Now I have to worry that I am older than him and that I asked him to marry me? What year is this? What country is this? It's like everything America says it stands for: equality, fairness, open-mindedness is one big fabrication.

If anyone really understood Vietnamese personality (like I do) they would know that Vietnamese men are not the "kings" everyone thinks they are. Vietnamese men are actually very shy and submissive with women. They would REALLY like to be with a strong woman who takes the role of the man - they just don't have the opportunity. They become bored and resentful having to be Mr. Top Dog in their home and turn to drinking, gambling, and even violence. But when they are satisfied and happy, they are delightful men, very very respectful, gentle and overly romantic and emotional. I am not underestimating how cunning Vietnamese can be - I know they are smarter than they look. I have never been mentally intimidated by anyone but Vietnamese would be very scary if they focused that brain power of theirs. All of this, I am aware of ... I wish there was a way to express this to the consulate.

Tan is not a perfect person. He comes with a suitcase full of baggage, just like all of us. It hasn't always been easy dealing with his - he is a total emotional investment. He makes me happier than I have ever been in my life, but if I want him, it is not without a price. He wants 24/7 devotion, affection, and togetherness and he isn't real good about enduring time when that is not possible.

Anyway, I am rambling ... now you see why my letter is so long. hihihihi ... but I will try to KEEP THE FAITH. This is a real relationship and we BOTH love each other. I would bet money that Tan would live on the moon as long as I was there. I just don't see a way of giving "just the facts" to a consulate who doubts everything and will just ask me later if I don't answer it NOW. All I can do is write that letter from my heart because this situation is not a "government matter" it is a matter of the heart.

Thanks to everyone and if anyone feels compelled to weed through my 5 pager, send me a PM - would love to get your comments. hihihi

Thanks *hugs* to all

ILOVETAN

My Mom read through my I-129f packet yesterday and started CRYING. She said: If they don't approve you, something is seriously wrong with the system.

I think that is the point, something is seriously wrong with this system.

If you want my blunt honesty, I think HCMC consulate doubts (in general) that Americans can truly love Vietnamese and vice versa. The culture and language are soooo different, how can they fit together? And too many scams on both ends have made matters even worse. I don't know he we are ever to combat this, but there must be a way!

Tan and I are extremely (as in EXTREMELY) stressed by the prejudice and nasty comments we are getting. We trust each other completely but its hard to be far from someone and hear sh*t about them all day long. I get nice comments like: "How naive are you?? He is working you girlfriend! He just wants a greencard, viets will go to any length, no matter how they have to fake it" Not only does this offend my intelligence (as if I wouldn't know someone was faking me out) but it also implies that viets have no heart and can't fall in love. ((tell me .. is he faking crying, faking arguing and being the world's stubbornest man, faking begging me to forget everything and just come be with him in VN because he wants to die without me, and faking his b*ners, too? And the Oscar goes to TAN - best actor of countryside Vietnam!))

He gets: "When is she sending you money? Has she sent you money yet? If she is not sending you money, why are you with a foreigner? She is just going to use you in the u.s. to do her cooking and cleaning and she will never take you outside. U.S. life is no different than VN - just stay here and marry a REAL woman. Americans have no soul, she will hurt you, she can't love you like you love her." In fact, Tan has stopped speaking to his dad because his dad was saying some things he shouldn't and Tan would protect me to the death.

I know how everyone feels ... it is so hard to have to PROVE your love. How do you prove an elusive intangible? And when is the last time some cafe receipts and a plane ticket proved love? This whole thing is backwards.

and we have to hear this BS day in and day out and deal with being far apart and the worry of the legendary HCMC consulate on our shoulders. At this point, I am thinking heavily about going to VN to stay with him until his interview. He begs me for this daily and I really resent giving up this time together. We both just found the love of our lives and we have to sit on other ends of the earth? We both just waste time anyway fantasizing about each other or sitting on webcam for 5 hours like two morons.

*Funny Tan moment (for those of you familiar with his unique sense of humor) Tan showed up on a webcam in a t-shirt he had custom made that said: I LOVE WHITE PEOPLE

cracked me up. (for those of you that don't get it, he is kidding - we just have a weird non-PC sense of humor thing together)

I guess the point is, I do see why the consulate doubts this stuff but they also need to be reasonable enough to see that if someone can provide what they are looking for, they need to ease up. There ARE real relationships coming from Vietnam - not just scams. I can attest to that.

Isn't there an ALL Vietnam visa forum? Everyone could band together and perhaps actually do something to change this system. If enough people fight together, we can change things. Any thoughts?

I only wish everyone my blessing that true love WILL prevail. Keep the faith and keep fighting.

*hugs*

ILOVETAN

Every time I tried to get my senator or congressman involved in my case, all they would do is send an email asking for the current status. They told me they can not do anything more than that. I ask them to call the consulate and personally get involved with my case but they wouldn't. It really became frustrating and I felt powerless fighting them. A senator may be able to request a meeting for you with the consulate but that is not 100%. If anyone here has had a senator or congressman help them with a case other gather info for you, please tell us your story.

I wish you guys the best. Hang in there! It is never over!

P.S.

I had the strongest urge to take a leak on the walls of the consulate before I left just to show them how much I appreciated all the time and money I spent fighting that hell hole.

Of course, I chickened out.

hahahah yes but peeing on the street is actually LEGAL in Vietnam. As Tan likes to say: Pee on the street and enjoy the special freedom of my country.

ILOVETAN

Even though we had been separated for years, my divorce was only 'final' the day before I mailed the petition. I did not make any mention of this as i'm sure they understand couples can be apart well before a divorce is considered final.

That being said... as Dan stated, Vietnam Consulate is a whole different creature than is New Zealand so perhaps a mention of when you were actually separated would serve you well.

Yes, and a whole lot different than Canada.

Persons immigrating from Third world countries tend to get put through a much higher level of scrutiny due to the higher level of visa fraud. I know from a lot of reading of people who get denied at the Consulate In China, that a recent divorce can cause the IO to ask for a detailed Evolution of Relationship letter from US Citizen. Vietnam is much like China in this regard.

Thanks, I agree. My letter is now 5 pages long. I know, I know ... way too long, but there is really no way to explain in less detail and ANSWER the kind of questions Vietnam would want to know answers to. (Plus, I can't be the ONLY person on earth who is long winded) :-)

I don't go on and on about the divorce, so far what I have is just basically - when I met and married my ex-husband, I was a totally different person and our marriage was based on things that really had nothing to do with love and affection, and I never anticipated changing so much. During that time, I went to Vietnam for travel and enjoyed it and learned the language and kept visiting the country. I was separated from my ex when I met Tan. Then I give tons of specific dates and details about how me met and fell in love and let them make the leap that falling in love with Tan is what prompted the official divorce (which is true).

Too much isn't necessarily BAD unless you open up new cans of worms by saying too much. I just tried to cover everything and give DETAILS (not to write a romance novel) but so they can see specific things that can't really be made up and see we have a genuine relationship. Vietnam is just a whole different ballgame. They suspect everything.

I love this person so much I feel like my eyes are going to implode in their sockets. Can I just say that and be done with it?

I even sometimes worry if giving them TOO MUCH PROOF could be a bad thing!!!!!

ILOVETAN

Just curious ... did you bring up your recent divorce or mention anything about it in your letter about how you met in the I-129F?

My divorce decree will only be dated a few days before the filing of the I-129F, do I need to bring it up at all?

Thanks

ILOVETAN

Ok all, I am now looking through my emails to and from Tan - more than 150 to go through in just 2 months. AAAAA. Nice, huh?

Here is my issue as I get more and more crabby about the whole situation. This stuff is PRIVATE. Just forget the sex talk, we talk about communism, the consulate, use dirty words, talk about money, talk about our secrets, make non PC jokes that outsiders would find highly offensive, etc ... this is OUR BUSINESS, that I would not share with anyone but someone I LOVED and TRUSTED.

Other than blacking out half of every email, which will just make them more suspicious, is there anything else I can do so they don't get inside my head (and that is a weird place to be, if you haven't already gathered).?

I can't even find one email where we didn't write something immensely personal. HELP. Any thoughts?

Further, our emails are about 90% in Vietnamese ... if I do use a few, do I have to translate them? This is taking hours, days, weeks to finish ... I am not even finished choosing our photos.

Thanks so much to all for any input.

ILOVETAN