Knoll

barron555: "No different than any other divorce?.... Why do you ask or what do you expect?"

Knoll: Apparently it is. My "wife" lives in Ukraine and can't legally return. It has been over 2 years since I started the divorce process (we were married in the US) and I'm losing confidence in my divorce attorney. After failed attempts to serve her, he said that he would need to send divorce papers to Minister of Foreign Affairs in Ukraine. They would then have up to 6 months to serve her papers. If they do not serve her in 6 months, the US can take over and go into default mode, however, they would need to leave the case open for 12 months for her to challenge the divorce. My attorney claims that this approach of getting proof of having been served, is the only proof of being served the US court will recognize (this assumes she does not want to sign and the goal then being default). I am trying to find if others in the same circumstance have had to do the same. This does not sound right. My wife finally is now willing to sign divorce papers. So, regardless, I want to know what others have done in my circumstance so I can see if we are doing it correctly. We have no kids.

My goal in this post is to find out what others have done in my situation to get divorced. I will then have a better sense if my attorney is on track.

Thanks.

Hi,

Looking to connect with any American citizens who have divorced or are in the process of divorcing a Ukrainian citizen.

Thank You.

Tim Nollstadt

Sorry if this is in the wrong place. Need some help. I'm an American citizen married to a Ukrainian woman. We married in the US December 2010, before her fiancé visa expired. She left the US in March 2011 to return to her homeland Ukraine. Long story short, we both want a divorce. We have no kids. My attorney made mistakes in the divorce process and here we are a year and a half later still "married" but wanting a divorce. She has never returned to the US since she left in March 2011.

Question 1: Can anyone please recommend an experienced international divorce attorney for a second opinion. I am losing confidence in my attorney but feel "stuck" and too deep into it to replace my attorney, but would like a second opinion on what to do.

Question 2: If anyone else has been through a divorce with a Ukrainian woman, could you please share what you did. Is it true she has to travel to the US Embassy in Kiev to have a notary there as a witness at the embassy?

Thank You.

Tim (Knoll)

Dear friends at Visa Journey,

I am sad to say my marriage with my Ukrainian wife Tanya is not working out. I never imagined being in this situation but I need to find out about the divorce process. I don’t know where to begin so I thought I would start here. Maybe someone else has experienced this and has some advice to offer.

Background:

Currently, my wife is in Ukraine. She left the US after receiving her green card and employment authorization card. That was March 2011. She now has exceeded the 12 month travel time allowed to be outside the US. She could not return on her own now anyway.

It seems like the divorce process should be clean and simple, and I can move on with my life? Am I wrong?

Thank you everyone for the advice and information.

My wife (Ukrainian) and I (American) were planning a wedding ceremony in Ukraine, in a church. We already married legally in the US after her arrival on a K-1 visa. She has her green card and employment card. I was just curious to hear from others who did something similar? Did you need to sign anything in Ukraine before the ceremony? like registering with the local government? I would expect our legal US marriage trumps anything else and it wouldn't matter what else we sign outside the US? Just curious to hear from others.

Thank you

Noll

Thank you all for your advice and information.

I agree with most that the most sensible thing to do is to marry here, THEN go to Ukraine (after receiving the green card in 2-3 months or so) and have the full blown church ceremony, or whatever, so that everyone is happy. I too am puzzled why my fiancee can't seem to understand this. The mother seems to have a lot of control on her daughter and her decisions.

Of course I would never prevent her from returning to Ukraine, don't be silly. She is free to return. If she chooses to return, I will probably take that as a sign that she is not interested in me and wants to end the relationship. Although she talks about getting married in Ukraine I am not keen on this approach after all we have been through these past two years and the K-1 process. There is so much uncertainty doing this and it is not a good idea I think to be registered in a country where you have no plans to live.

TK Noll

Thank you all for your advice and information.

TK Noll

Clarifying my earlier post:

If I marry my fiancée here in USA (i.e. have marriage license/register), can we do the same in her country (register and file marriage license) Ukraine to satisfy the parents and family?

Thanks

I have two questions:

My fiancée is here with me in US with her K-1 set to expire on December 8th. I have everything lined up for the marriage ceremony on November 27th. The short story is her parents gave me their blessings for marriage when I visited them in Ukraine but now they are against us marrying. My fiancée was still ready to go through with the marriage but we had an argument a few days ago and now is bent on returning to Ukraine. The parents say the only way they will approve marriage is if we marry in Ukraine. Having her return to Ukraine, marrying in Ukraine and filing a K3 is not a smart move in my opinion. There is no guarantee they would issue a visa and it could take a long time. I am urging her to marry here and then we can return to Ukraine for a church ceremony with her family. Any advice please to get through to her?

Second question: If we marry here in USA can we still register in Ukraine to satisfy the parents and family?

Why not let her just make new friends, nationality notwithstanding?

If you are doing your part of the bargain, she will not NEED friends, she'll have you. Aren't you her best friend?

Thank you all for replies and good advice. Of course I want to spend as much time with my fiancee and of course we are best friends! and true, of course, it doesn't have to be a Russian or Ukrainian couple for friendship. So, I understand all that!

I was just hoping to find a female friend or friends that Tatiana can spend some time with while I am at work during the day. Unfortunately, I commute to my job about 75 minutes one way (I leave at 5:10 in the morning and return at 7pm). There will be some days I will try to get home earlier and I am going to ask about working from home a few days a month. I realize a lot of the guys on VJ have plenty of money and free time but that is not my situation at this time.

Anyway, it seems this will be a much more difficult goal. There are many Ukrainians and Russians in the tri-state area but that doesn't mean they all would make "good" friends (as someone noted earlier).

There is an eastern Ukrainian Meetup group in Eastern Pennsylvania I think I will also try.

I apologize for not being clear. My fiancée is still in Ukraine and she will be having her interview very soon. Assuming all goes well, she will be arriving in America this summer or early fall and we will marry. But I thought now would be good time to try and reach out to some people before she arrives.

We are not into kinky or weird behavior and no wife swapping.

Thanks.

Hello All,

I am looking for Ukrainian/Russian couples for friendship:

If you live in New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania or Connecticut, that would be perfect as we are looking for friends that are “reasonably” close to us in western New Jersey near Easton Pennsylvania. If you are heavy drinkers, heavy smokers, or do drugs, it is not a good match.

Ideally looking for American (or from any country) men with Ukrainian/Russian/Eastern European women (or any woman who knows Russian and English), living in America.

If this is not you but you know someone, please let them know.

Thank you.

Thanks again everyone for your advice and input. I am grateful.

Understood that there is risk, even if it is tiny, it can be devastating. It has made me rethink things.

For those frustrated replying to the same questions over and over, you do help people each time you “repeat” your information. Your help is not wasted and it helps many more people than just me.

Folks, time to move on and stop the arguing with each other and spewing of unfounded accusations. It’s childlike and not constructive. You are embarrassing yourself.

Thanks again, all the best to you.

Thank you all for your replies! I am considering all information shared.

It would be great if I could connect with someone who had an "unofficial” wedding ceremony in Ukraine after their fiancée has her visa in hand. Surely, it has been done before.

Of course, I understand we must marry in the USA officially and legally. I respect the process and the entities involved issuing the visas. For those indicating “fraud”, I have no intention of behaving fraudulently. I don’t see how an “unofficial” church ceremony is “fraud” or undermining the system. As I said, I respect the process and the people involved. I plan to take all the proper steps required.

Otherwise, it seems strange to have a church wedding long after you have been legally married and living together. It’s backwards. It just wouldn’t be the same, I think.

All that said, I understand the points implying “why risk it”. I’ll weigh that sentiment in my decision, but will most likely go through with a simple undocumented ceremony as indicated.

Hello All,

I did search before writing this but did not find anything specific on this topic. Sorry to those in advance if this comes off as a stupid question or offends anyone.

Here's the plan:

Assuming my fiancée receives her visa in coming months, once she actually has it in hand, I was planning to fly to Ukraine and marry her in her church there amongst family and friends (that is, have a formal church ceremony). After the church wedding ceremony in Ukraine, we would return together to the USA. Can doing this jeopardize her K-1 visa if say somehow the authorities learn that we married in the church in Ukraine, before using her visa to travel to the United State? Do they even care? Who else did this and did you get a marriage certificate from the church?

Thank you.

Knoll

thanks all. this is consistent with everything else I have read and heard.

But if she overstays her visa and we DON'T get married, then we both damage our chances in the future (me filing to bring someone here or here being able to enter the country for some time)? Is this true? Who gets "damaged" under this scenario or no one does? Thanks.

sorry all for this post. It was answered in one of my earlier topic posts, more or less. my apologies.

I was reading that you can marry after the K-1 expires and that you have 180 days after the K-1 expiration date. The risk however, is that you are under more scrutiny to be "approved" after filing the I-130 and the I-485, and they may order her to return. If they order her to go home, it does not damage her or I permanently from re-applying for a K-1 in the future, or for her entering the US on another K-1. That said, they may accept the aplication too without any problems. Am I understanding this right?

Thanks.

What happens if I marry my fiance after her K-1 visa expires? I was reading that you can technically marry within 6 months after her K-1 expires but you would have to file the I-130 along with the I-485. meaning that you can marry within this timeframe without permanent damage to both of you (if they order her to go home, for example, her and I can reapply in the futre for a K-1 with each other or someone else). Am I understanding this correctly?

Thanks

Gemmie, thanks. yes I will have a translator this Sunday to sit with us. we can have conversations but she sometimes takes things out of context or misunderstands. having normal, adult conversations; we are not there yet. But hopefully a lot of things get figured out/decisions made after we talk with interpreter.

beejay, mox relax: of course sex is not the foundation of a relationship, I know that, don't be silly. the ultimatum thing did not come out right. of course I would not force anything on her. perhaps I did not phrase it correctly. What I will convey to her is that I would like to see us "practice" what marriage would be like which includes letting me make attempts at intimacy. of course I would not force myself on her. but a man has to attempt or try. that's what I meant, more or less. don't let your heart be troubled... ;-)

Kotenochek: like the comment about the economy, so true. that is a tough one to convey to her though. she thinks a man should not have any financial problems, regardless of economy. she just does not get it yet. I try to do everything I can to keep her from being lonely. I try to spend time with her everytime I am not working. frequently she tells me "leave me alone right now" or she will walk out of the room when I walk in. I helped her find some girlfriends too (Ukrainian living here near us)

no bitterness to anyone and thanks for all the well wishes

mox, you are misunderstanding my position on intimacy. I don't have a fixation on it but rather a healthy perspective about intimacy, understanding that it is a very important part of a relationship, especially in the beginning (before marriage) and early in a marriage. It is huge milestone in a relationship to reach. It can be the "glue" in a relationship when times are tough and people can be less critical on their partner when they have a healthy intimacy. so...very important. I think most people reading this would agree.

thanks again everyone, and slim, like you comments a lot, very good points and straight talk. So, there actually are other men who sleep on the couch or a different bed at times.

The odds are not in my favor at this late stage but I have one shot left, so to speak. One thing I will not do is allow her to overtstay her K-1. I will schedule time to sit down with an interpreter and talk about everything. We will either get married before the K-1 expiration or she returns home. But if we marry, we will both do it with the understanding that we will make a sincere effort to work it out knowing that we had to do it so as not to overstay the K-1. We both need to be on the same page with the understanding that intimacy is an important part of the marriage. If she keeps refusing any of my attempts at intimacy after we have the discussion with the interpreter, then I will not marry her (but I will explain this to her in advance). There is no one I know that has a successful relationship that did not have intimacy before marriage. Almost everyone does. Like it or not, it is reality of relationships these days.

So bottom line, I love her and want her to be happy, whatever the outcome is. If she wants to go home so be it. I have her ticket already. If it must end, I don't want it to end bitterly.

very grateful to all comments. It informed me and made me think about a lot of things.

noll

Thanks again to everyone for great advice and hopefully it may benefit other readers besides me. That was why I posted this to get information to make an "informed" decision, to know the possible things that can happen based on the path we choose.

Bottom line is I rushed the visa because I believed she would warm up to me once we were together in the USA. Mistake! She even admits it to me that she was not prepared, I think we both were not prepared.

while a agree with an earlier comment about chemistry required, there are a few cases where two people start out not really liking each other (even can't stand each other) and then over time as they open their mind and heart, love comes in. This is what I believe also. It is not always "instant" chemistry required. She came expecting a fairy tale perfection and did not come with open mind and open heart. Unfortunately, she has friends that reinforce this notion because one of her friends married American but he was rich and had everything organized for her very quickly, like Social number, driver license, etc. but I told her their relationship may have been different and more advanced before she came, I would have done same if you were in love with me before arrival, even if you were warmer to me when you got here.

so of course when her girlfriend bragged about how good it was for her having everything, this made her upset at me because I did not have the social number ordered right away and other things. On good note, she is starting to see that others like her don't have all the things in place yet either and she is less bitchy now. There is one Ukrainian girl she friends with now that is married to American man and has child and still does not have her driver license, for example. So her eyes are starting to open, I think, I hope.

Note to the ladies, don't expect so much perfection, us men are human and we make mistakes, everything does not go perfect like TV or the movies. We may get lost once out of the 30 times we take a trip. Remember the 30 times we got it right not the one time we got lost. But I digress

thanks mox again, great advice. Just reading these comments makes me very aware how inexperienced I am at relationships in general, which is probably part of the problem in her not being attracted to me so much.

on the desperation comment, no not desperate, okay maybe a little but it is a normal emotional, it is how I play it out that is important. I can live with a lot of her faults because I like the good things I have seen (but need to see more)