mnbinth

I am trying to file form n400 udner section 319(b); but i am not sure about part 7,could u help me?!?!?

thank you so much

This has to do with trips you've taken out of the U.S. since receiving permanent residency. We just put "0" for A and B. For C, under the heading "Countries to Which You Traveled" our lawyer wrote "NONE." This section doesn't really apply to people filing under 319(b).

Greetings

Can anyone tell me when my 5 year old stepdaughter can become a US Citizen? She just recently became a LPR (Jan 2012)...

I am US Military currently stationed overseas in Germany and may possibly be filing under INA 319.b for my wife (who also just became a LPR in JAN 2012). Are they able to grant citizenship to my stepdaughter as well? I'm thinking "NO"...not until she reaches a certain age (18), but I cannot find that age declared anywhere....Can anyone offer help here?

I'm just curious how this will effect my stepdaughter, if she must remain a LPR while her mother and stepfather are US Citizens.

We also have the option to wait 2.5 more years and file under 319e (Overseas Naturalization for Spouses of Military Members) but again, that only applies to my wife.

Is this normally the case? get citizenship for your spouse and then if she has children of her own you must wait until they are 18?

THANKS FOR ANY/ALL HELP!

I'm guessing your assumptions are not correct. According to the N-400 instructions "permanent residents under 18 years of age may be eligible for U.S. citizenship if their U.S. citizen parent or parents file a Form N-600 application in their behalf." Since your situation is even more unique than most, I'd consult an immigration attorney. They should be able to tell you over the phone what's possible without charging you a penny. If they want to charge you, call another attorney. They will likely say that they can't tell you for sure if you qualify, which is true, until they see all your legal documents, but they should be able to give you a pretty good idea before you drop some cash on their desk.

i got confused about part 7

You probably figured this out by now but for anyone else that needs help...

Part 7 A: 0

Part 7 B: 0

Part 7 C: Under "Countries to Which You Traveled" we put "NONE"

My wife arrived 11/2007, received GC 05/2008 and filed N-400 08/2008. Prior to this we had been out of the country a couple years. Despite this, on Section 7A, my lawyer wrote "0", on section 7B "0" and section 7C under countries to which you have traveled "NONE". That is because the instructions state these are only trips since receiving your green card. N-400 instructions for section 7 say, "Provide the requested information for every trip that you have taken outside the United States since you became a Lawful Permanent Resident. Begin with your most recent trip." Since you haven't left the country since receiving your GC last year, you should be able to write the same as what ours said.

confused about part 7,since i just got here in 2009(got my green card in 2010),I've only been living here for barely 2 years,what should i put in the blank,it doesn't make sense to me to count all the days outside of the US in 5 years? should i just leave it blank?

"1. Did you apply from the US before going overseas, and then come back only for interview/oath? How did you do fingerprinting?"

We applied in the U.S. and stayed there until oath ceremony. However, you can apply from overseas, but you have to go back for interview/oath. I don't know how the fingerprinting works but according to the law, you can apply from overseas.

"2. I am wondering if we can use US address as our home address while claiming that we are applying from overseas, and asking to be naturalized at a Field Office of our chosen (Fairfax, VA is what I am thinking of)? Would that confuse USCIS? Also if we use a US address, USCIS could schedule fingerprint appointment at an ASC in the US. If so we would end up having to fly back to the US just for fingerprinting?"

Applying from overseas seems even more confusing. I don't have answers to those questions. USCIS is incompetent and rarely sees these cases. I was told my wife was the first case at our local service center. Never ever expect them to understand your case. Always expect them to be confused, hurried and overworked so when you send them stuff, make sure it's organized and that what you want them to know and do is written so clearly, a 3rd grader could understand. I really recommend people higher a lawyer and eat the cost. Citizenship is too valuable to let paperwork mistakes or incompetent adjudicators screw things up. Also keep in mind, USCIS has a Congressional liaison office. If you ever have trouble. Go to your local Congressmen's office and ask them "to make a congressional inquiry to the USCIS Congresional liasison office" on your behalf. All they have to do is shoot a quick e-mail to the office. Shoot, even if you don't have trouble, I would go ask them to check on your case for you. It can do nothing but help.

Step 1, #3 of the N-400 Instructions say "Answer all questions fully and accurately. State that an item is not applicable with "N/A." If the answer is none, write "none."

My lawyer wrote "NONE" under the "countries to which you traveled"

how would I annotate that if there is only a "Date you left the United States" and "Date you returned to the United States" in mm/dd/yyy format? Should I just put in today's date for "Date you returned to the United States" or present etc?

1. According to our lawyer, you can apply from overseas. We did not need to, but it is possible. Read this thread. Some of the links have changed, but you can find the documents other places online I'm sure.

2. I would not use a foreign address. It would only raise questions and I'd rather rely on the U.S. mail systems. We used a family member's address who we knew would not be moving during the application process. They scanned all documents for us. This was during visa applications.

3. Do you need "care of"? Can't you just put your name on the address? That's what we did through the whole immigration journey.

4. I'm not sure about how to do the fingerprints.

My lawyer had never seen it before either but researched it with her immigration law resources. Immigration law is her full time job so even though she hadn't had a case before, she still understood how immigration law works so was quickly able to figure it out. I'm sure any competent lawyer in Detroit would be able to do the same.

Can anyone in Metro Detroit recommend a lawyer that knows anything about 319b?

I spoke with 3 highly recommended lawywers today and they know less about this process than I do after reading the info on this message board!

Sorry, meant to write 10 and 11.

5. It's in a few posts back. Scroll up the screen or click here.

9. I did not have any ID card.

10. Military

Couple of questions about the required documetns

5. a letter from the company (notarized)- what this letter supposed to say?.

Thanks!

If you're doing it in Fairfax like "newlyweds" said, you'll have no problems. If you do it other places, you might consider hiring a lawyer. We did ours in Iowa and we were the first case the adjudicator had ever seen or even heard of believe it or not! Despite clear proof using evidence from the INA and HER OWN MANUAL she still subsequently denied naturalization because she was incompetent and it took a lawyer and a call from my U.S. Senator's office to push things back in the right direction. USCIS owes me several thousand in legal fees for that one. I'm not bitter!

Does it make any sense in using a lawyer for 319b or is the process pretty straight forward?

The cover letter we used is in the first post here.

The information required for the employer letter.

An official letter from a U.S. government agency, public international organization, or firm incorporated

in the U.S. or a foreign subsidiary with at least 51% American ownership that includes the following:

• The title of the official making the affidavit, the name of the firm or corporation, and whether he or

she has access to the records of the firm or corporation; and

• Whether the employing organization is an American firm or corporation engaged in the development

of foreign trade and commerce of the U.S. or is a subsidiary thereof. An American firm is defined as

being at least 51% owned by U.S. citizens; and

• The nature of the business which is conducted by the employing organization; and

• The name of the State under the laws of which it was organized, the date of incorporation, and that it

is existent.

• The facts of the U.S. citizen spouse’s employment and the basis of hire (contract, regular employee,

etc.) and the prospective length of time he is committed to remain in overseas employment.

There's another thread here. Accidentally have two going.

Can you please send me samples of cover letter and letter from company? Thank you so very much!

Thanks

I think I'll leave the sleeping giant alone and only deal with it if forced to. The difference for my wife was that the abbreviation for 2 months is very similar but Thailand used to never use the birth certificate for anything so the mistake wasn't caught. They use a household registration book to prove birth instead. Her father attempted to correct it when she was a kid and they said they wouldn't do it. 25 years later, they change it. *sigh*

Can only appreciate what you are going through

I'm concerned about problems crossing the border. Airlines always ask to see your passport or visa to enter the next country so my wife will have to show them both her passports. If there are different dates, I don't know if that will raise red flags or not. I was told by the Chiang Mai Consulate general himself that it won't be a problem because the laws are separate and once you're a citizen, what's done is done.

When we have our first child in a couple months in Thailand, the birth paperwork on the Thai side requires her to right down her birth date. When we go to the embassy to get our son his U.S. passport they'll notice the difference there too.

I'm probably too concerned about it.

Why change the US documents at all? I'm not sure I see any downside to leaving them alone.

My wife was naturalized on 1/29/09. Upon return to Thailand, we learned her date of birth in Thailand had been changed while we were in the U.S. The birth certificate my wife's father had on file that we used for immigration was incorrect and did not match the file at the local "middle of rice field" government office. Her father requested a correction on the Thai household registration book (which is used as proof of birth in Thailand) and when we returned to Thailand, she had to change all her Thai legal documents. We exhausted all legal routes to prevent her birth date from changing in Thailand. All they could do for us was to write a letter stating when the change was made and why. This was done to support her if she needed to change documents in the U.S.

Now her Thai and U.S. passports are different by exactly 7 months (same day, same year, different month). I think this needs corrected in the U.S. but I am absolutely terrified that filing an application for change (N-565) will undue everything we spent years waiting for because they will suspect fraud. We don't know if this will be an issue when crossing the border or not. Since she has dual citizenship, she doesn't need a visa stamp in either passport. I suspect immigration will want to see proof she will be allowed to enter either country (i.e. show a visa in leaving country or passport in entering country). If they notice the date difference, I see nothing but problems ahead. Do you think I should "leave well enough alone" or attempt to correct the naturalization certificate. Given the incompetence we've experienced by USCIS in the past, I'm not optimistic.

I don't see any other way for her to change her U.S. passport unless we fix the naturalization certificate first. At no point did we attempt to attempt to lie which would be a federal crime and I want to do whatever is morally right, but I'm afraid that my good intentions will lead to huge problems.

You must follow the instructions on this page. However, to request the interview in Fairfax, make sure you clearly state that in your cover letter. Clearly state that you are applying under 319b which allows you to interview anywhere.

Oh, and also-- we want the interview in Fairfax. I am confused about where to send the application.

Does anyone know which address I should send our application to?

Thank you!

You can request the location when you send in the application on the cover letter. I'm not familiar with how to change it now, but I think you can do it. As always, if you have trouble, contact a local Congressman's office and ask them to make an inquiry to the "USCIS Congressional Liaison Division."

We received a letter in the mail reminding us that my wife needs to apply to remove her conditional residency status.

She's been a citizen for over a year. Glad to know USCIS is still incompetent and can't update simple computer records...

Here are a few corrected and more specific links from the first post. USCIS has a new site design which messed up the previous links. Keep in mind when preparing documents and reading through this that Section 319b is completely separate from the other parts of Section 319. For example, the requirements for 319a are not necessarily required for 319b.

Section 319b in the Immigration and Nationality Act

Code of Regulations (8 CFR PART 319.2)

Code of Regulations (8 CFR Part 319.11)

Interpretation Letter for 319.2

Helpful Information can be found in the Adjudicator's Field Manual.

Adjudicator's Field Manual Chapter 73.4

This proves that someone applying under Section 319b is exempt from the 3 month residency requirement in a state.

Adjudicator's Field Manual Chapter 73.5

This proves that someone applying under Section 319b has no physical presence requirement.

If you hire a lawyer, make sure they have a copy of the U.S. Citizenship and Naturalization Handbook or maybe you can find it in a library.

It has a lot to say about Section 319b.

I attached some PDF's of some of the above if the links are broken later on.

__Sec._319.2.pdf

__Sec._319.11.pdf

Adjudicator__s_Handbook_73.4_Jurisdiction..pdf

Adjudicator__s_Handbook_73.5_Physical_Presence.pdf

Interpretation_Letter_of___Sec._319.2.pdf

Section_319b_of_INA.pdf

Thanks for your reply. I'm pretty sure at this point I'm only going to deal with the Fairfax, VA office. They seem to know what they're doing, and have jurisdiction over all 319b cases (as there is no jurisdiction guidelines when applying through 319b).

I'm trying to avoid getting an attorney involved. I just don't have the money for that right now. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me in the butt later on.

In the end, it's all worth the money and hassle.

It's hard to get answers from field offices about 319b as you're already finding out. Ours initially denied my wife's application because they didn't understand it. It took a lawyer explaining to her how to do her job to get it right... not to mention a few thousand dollars. grrrr It's interesting that Detroit was willing to even discuss it. I had the FAQ from USCIS in hand and the Des Moines office refused to admit 319b even existed and said they'd have a lawyer call me. I'm still waiting for that call...

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the person at the Detroit office is wrong. A 3 year marriage or residency requirement defeats the purpose of 319b, to allow U.S. citizens and their spouses to move abroad to work for entities and organizations based out of the U.S. IMMEDIATELY after permanent residency is established. Granted you aren't immediately applying, but it would still be expeditious for you to apply earlier than the 3 year period of 319a. Thanks to USCIS and their crappy web site, you can't read through the INA right now so my links at the top of this forum don't take you anywhere. However I'm reading through 319b, INS Interpretation letter 319.2, and the adjudicators field manual I have and can find nothing that supports the Detroit offices comments. The fact that your departure is after the 3 year period should be erroneous. NOWHERE in the law does it even mention 3 years. The whole 3 years thing deals with 319a. 319b is independent from 319a and completely separate part of the law. Naturalization under 319b, unlike under 319a, does NOT have a 3 year marriage or residency requirement of any kind. The plain statutory construction of INA doesn't impose ANY length of marriage requirement so you are able to apply. I'm quite certain the law is on your side. However, you may end up needing a lawyer to prove it if the adjudicator in Detroit is inexperienced or incompetent. And there could be something funky about the law I don't understand that makes you ineligible. Good luck!

Am sorry, I wasn't clear ... I'm the greencard holder ... my Husband is military and I was wondering how far out from our travel date can I apply?

Do you think 5-6 months is too far away?

Is there a specific timeline?

When we went through the process, the average time was 3 months or less from application to interview. That looks like around what it still is. Your application will be processed at the same speed as everyone else at the office you apply to. Check the forums and see how long others are taking wherever you are planning to apply to. The only expedited thing about it is that you don't have to wait 3 years to apply.

You are supposed to have evidence at your interview that you plan to join your husband overseas within 45 days of the interview. That makes it pretty tough to plan and it's a very vague requirement as to what's required.

Hi,

Do you have any idea as to how soon someone can send their application in for the 319b?

Am currently putting my packet together .... but not flying until April/May.

Was thinking 6 months would be OK to allow them to get working on it.

BTW, Thank you so much for the helpful information you've put on VJ concerning this expedite

You can send the application the moment your spouse receives a green card because he/she is eligible to apply for naturalization immediately after approval of permanent residence (assuming they meet all the requirements for 319b of course). Keep in mind you'll be given a scheduled biometrics appointment before the interview. In my wife's case, we waited 3 months after the green card in an attempt to time the interview with our travel plans.

Does anyone know if the phrase "...an American firm or corporation engaged in the development of foreign trade and commerce of the U.S." mean only non-profits for the purposes of 319b, or can the phrase include typical profit-making firms? I'm finding conflicting web sources.

I'm down to the finals for a 2-year expat position in Central America with a US company (not a non-profit), and my wife has been in the US for six months on her CR-1. This would be a great way to accelerate the citizenship process...

Advice or opinions appreciated on this option or on alternatives...

No, it does not have to be non-profit. That is a separate qualification option. Assuming you meet all the other requirements, the only requirement of your company is that it is "An American firm or corporation engaged in whole or in part in the development of foreign trade and

commerce of the U.S." That is a VERY broad definition so I'm sure you'll be fine. I suggest you write the letter from your company and make it sound like it's doing exactly what this requirement says. Emphasize it is U.S. owned, operating abroad and involved in commerce that benefits the U.S. I wouldn't worry about it if you already meet all the other requirements.

Hi, this thread has been extremely helpful. I am about to apply for my wife's naturalization thru 319(B) and I would like request if some could share a template of affidavit of applicant. Im not sure what that is, or how it is to be used.

Thanks,

This is the letter from your "employer" making a statement that you meet the requirements listed below. This is submitted with your N-400 application. My letter was a very simple one page letter with exactly what they ask for below. It was signed by the most important person I could find in the organization.

An official letter from a U.S. government agency, public international organization, or firm incorporated

in the U.S. or a foreign subsidiary with at least 51% American ownership that includes the following:

• The title of the official making the affidavit, the name of the firm or corporation, and whether he or

she has access to the records of the firm or corporation; and

• Whether the employing organization is an American firm or corporation engaged in the development

of foreign trade and commerce of the U.S. or is a subsidiary thereof. An American firm is defined as

being at least 51% owned by U.S. citizens; and

• The nature of the business which is conducted by the employing organization; and

• The name of the State under the laws of which it was organized, the date of incorporation, and that it

is existent.

• The facts of the U.S. citizen spouse’s employment and the basis of hire (contract, regular employee,

etc.) and the prospective length of time he is committed to remain in overseas employment.