user149

I also noticed somewhere that you said marriage was her idea. This should factor in your investigation/idea exploration.

FINALLY. Someone gets the point.

user 149, you got the answers you are going to get- stop continuously rousing other people here just beacuse we are VERY emotional about the immigration process and you don't like what we have to say....

most VJ members come from legitimate relaitonships, they know full well what the process entails before they get into it, they make their decisions and do what the gov requires them to do because they WANT to spend their lives with their soulmates.....

You know, I'm glad you touched on this. I'm guess that alot of the enmity I'm getting from board members is due to their perception that I'm not taking this process seriously enough, or in their eyes that my relationship is not "legitimate". Well they are certainly entitled to their opinion. Here is mine: alot of you write with this all-consuming passion about the trials and tribulations of the immigration process. Using words like "soulmate". So emotional you can't even see the objective side of an issue, you look down on people like me who would like to discuss the worst case scenario. Haven't you guys ever heard of Murphy's law? The absolute saddest thing in existence, is watching two people who love each other so passionately... breaking up. Yes, it DOES happen, 50% of the time. Happens so often, there's a part of the forum dedicated to it. Some of you guys have worked up such a head of steam about your relationships- its going to be all the more tragic when some of them fail.

Look at the way older people conduct relationships. I mean like those born in the 30's and 40's- people with decades of marriage. Examine their relationships. Its not about firey passion (which is cool for the 15 minutes it lasts) Its about finding someone chill. Someone who you can tolerate and grow old with. Someone who shares your ideals and can see eye to eye with. It doesn't have ###### to do with marriage, or being "soulmates", or even love. Yeah I said it. Might shock you to know, in some countries people get married for reasons that have nothing to do with love, and end up spending wonderful lives together. Its been going on for thousands of years in India, and many other cultures around the world. Alot of the people on this forum are simply just dead ignorant to the fact that (and I'll make it big, cuz CAPS LOCK is cruise-control for cool):

SOME PEOPLE IN THE WORLD HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS ABOUT MARRIAGE THAN YOU DO!

Also, I'm not "rousing" anybody. If you read the thread you'd see not only did I state my question was answered, I suggested mods lock the thread. Doesn't have anything to do with me not liking what you guys say- you want to keep arguing we can do so till the cows come home. I'll always win too, because as you stated earlier, most of y'all are an overly-emotional bunch- I'd say like 30% of you are thinking clearly.

Chao!

I replied to a thread yesterday on another Board from a Canadian who had been refused entry.

People who seek entry on the VWP are refused every day. All a VWP does is allow you to get to the gate, US Immigration, whether you get let in all depends on your individual situation. Plenty of examples on this board of those who have failed.

Hrm. Fair enough, that sounds pretty accurate. Still, I envy people from VWP countries, who have even just a chance for a few casual visits.

What irks me is, I could be the perfect spouse (I know, haha, right?) and my fiance equally so- but she might just get here and decide it sucks/be homesick, maybe she won't want to learn english, etc.

Who knows? maybe we'll split just based on the culture shock. Ask some of her more uppity countrymen, they'd sooner spit on their children then move to the US.

She might get here and decide she hates me. Entirely possible! I'll be the first to admit that the me thats on vacation is not the same person that lives day-to-day at home- its just not an accurate comparison.

No bills to pay on vacation, no doctor visits, no arguments over picking up the kids, chores, etc.

There's just no way to gauge how day-to-day living will be until she's over here.

I'd give anything just to show her around the States for a month and just get a feel for the whole situation, her opinion and mine.

@ Maya:

I hear you, re: being fair to the child.. its a bit of a quagmire for me. I didn't find out about her till my subsequent visit (~3 months after we met). I came back specifically for my girl's birthday, wanted to do something nice for her, she's really sweet.. so I'm at dinner with her and her friends (one of which is kinda our de facto translator). At some point during the conversation (I speak passable spanish, or at least enough to eavesdrop on people who think I can't) and I catch something to the effect of "when is your daughter's birthday? she'll be how old?".

I imagine I went pale f'king white (and I'm a black dude). I tried to hold it in, but clearly it showed on my face, as suddenly they're all laughing hysterically. Now her friend is chiding me asking "whats wrong, you don't like her now that you know she has a little girl?" had she been a guy I might have slugged her. My girl was also visibly embarassed- evidently that was not how she had planned on breaking the news to me, and her friend (who I believe is a tad bit jealous) was just really hamming it up bigtime. I kept my composure, even tho I hadn't a ###### clue what to do next.

So I was left with a terrible quandry. I really like this girl, but bringing a child along was NOWHERE in my plan. I could have dumped her right there on the spot, I probably SHOULD have, but I really like her. I couldnt say I love her at that point, its was like our 5th date or so. So I return to the states and mull over the problem, for a long time I'm torn. Eventually I'm like f'k it, you know what, I got a bit of dough.. if it came down to it I think I could live with bringing a child along too. So, several months later, cut-to and present day I get on this message board and try to actually find out what I'm in for if I do bring them over. Immediately I'm proclaimed a troll, flames and hilarity ensue, and well, you know the story from there.

A point of information: Canadians can, and have been (myself included) refused entry if the border official knows that the purpose of the visit is to see their "friend" or spouse. This can occur even if the Canadian has an approved petition and carries lots of evidence of ties to Canada (employment, housing, etc.) and has a "machine readable passport".

Just wondering, not trying to argue- what do you usually say to the border guy? Whenever he asks I just say vacation (but undoubtedly USCs are under much less scrutiny). Would he have refused you if you said you were going to check out Niagra falls, or maybe go camping in upstate New York for 2 months?

Lol at WoW yourself! Who are you to judge how people meet? And how is meeting on WoW worse than what you're talking about doing?

I'm not judging, but I do have some experience with the matter. Being that I'm pretty familiar with the MMORPG world myself (former ffxi junkie), this was just too easy a shot to resist. I've seen the entire gamut of relationship horror stories on these games: people being used/seduced for items/gold, people straying from REAL LIFE relationships/destroying their marriages over someone they met in-game, longtime friends fighting over a digital cat-girl only to discover she's really a man, people being tricked into giving out their personal information and then account stolen, people having cybersex then posting it on forums to embarass people, I could go on and on. Hell, I can't lie, I was sweet on my own pile of pixels once. On the surface, an MMORPG seems a perfectly innocuous place to meet.. like any internet chat room. The caveat being, the types of people who are drawn to MMORPGs tend to have very escapist personalities. I've met many girls who "date" within the framework of the game, due to poor treatment at the hands of men IRL. Alot of guys who "date" there because they haven't had much luck approaching women IRL. Lots of low self-esteem all around, which is basically a prerequisite for playing this type of game- its what allows people to grind away for hours performing mindless tasks they don't enjoy, trying to get a virtual sword, instead of going outside (and this was me for 2 years, if you have a WoW character 60 or over, this means you, too). What I've observed is that, when these people who meet in game get together in real life, they argue ALOT, and have huge difficulty resolving conflicts- resulting in even minor disputes being blown severely out of proportion. The part about MMORPGs that appeals to alot of people (having total control to create and customize a personality all your own) also tends to make them insular and uncompromising, having difficulty relinquishing a portion of this control to their significant other.

Anyway I've rambled long enough, I hope for you guys' sake nothing I said hit TOO close to home.

Thanks all for the info, my question is largely answered.

I'm up to speed on the I-864, but as the previous posters pointed out, I think I need to do some research in the family court dept.

You think you can use this the way you want just because you have $hitload of money? You think you can fraud ( yeah it IS fraud to use the K-1 that way) and that nobody cares? Well, let me tell you, you are on the wrong forum to bring that up. I'm canadian and as far as I am concerned, its not given to everybody to use that visitor Visa to spend 6 months together like you claim we can do, I have barely seen my fiance 60 days in 18 months.

Here we go again.

When I referred to "visitor visas" I misworded. Excuse me. As others have pointed out, what I was alluding to was the Visa Waiver Program (VWP)- which basically allows citizens from a select 27 countries to waltz into the US with nothing more than a machine-readable passport, for a periods up to 90 days.

As for your specific situation- I listed Canada as one of these countries, but that isn't quite true. Special rules exist for Canadian citizens which are similar to the VWP, but are actually MORE lenient. Details available on the Canadian/US embassy site, here: http://www.amcits.com/exceptions.asp

"Note: In almost all circumstances Canadian citizens do not need visitor, business, transit or other visas to enter the U.S., either from Canada or from other countries."

Yeah so... if you've only seen your fiance 60 days in the last 18 months, my guess is it has nothing to do with Visa requirements. Get a f'king machine-readable passport and you can WALK over the border- is this really news to you? My prospective spouse can do no such thing- through neither my fault nor hers, and I see that as unfair. I don't care if I'm making you mad- its not my fault you're grossly uninformed, eh?

You're making me very mad, but I'll stay polite. Get an attorney for your financial questions, and /shoo away.

Also, telling me to /shoo is not polite. That's like me saying, "no offense, but LOL @ meeting your spouse on WoW!"

My thanks to all who have provided personal experience and informative, objective opinions; my question has largely been answered. To those who've felt the need to browbeat me with their anglo-christian views on marriage and other #######, thank you for the opportunity to hone my debate skills. Mods might as well lock this, any useful information has already been dispensed with.

...lolWoW

The reason the English and Canadians (& all those people from countries that are part of the Visa Waiver Program) are allowed to come here freely w/o a visa is because they do not have a history of overstaying their visas....NOT because of coke, Chiquita or Exxon or whatever.

No, actually, you are incorrect. Visa overstays are nowhere near the most significant factor.

There's a whole lot more in the equation, i.e. extradition treaties, reciprocity, authenticity of passports, etc..

Please see http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/temp/with...thout_1255.html for details on what makes countries eligible for the Visa Waiver Program.

Clearly indicated under "types of issues considered" is:

* Existence of security and law enforcement threats in the country (terrorist activities, organized crime, money laundering, human and drug trafficking, etc.)

Which most certainly applies to FARC/AUC/ELN and their drug running.

Chiquita exacerbates the problem by financially supporting these terrorist groups and death squads.

Read all about it here: http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2007/3/17/231647/347

Get your facts straight, k?

But small newsflash for you...if you are pursuing a K-1 visa without being sure that the woman you're bringing here is the woman you are going to marry you are in effect lying on that visa application....which may constitute fraud!

Err... this statement is just confusing, and is about the most liberal definition of fraud I've ever heard of. I'll take my chances.

No offense taken...but read through the personal stories of some of the members here on VJ....10.5 months is the least amount of time some of them have been separated from their loved one, and they've been able to make it work.

Oh certainly, already have. I'm not new to forums in general, I know how to lurk. But let it suffice to say this approach will not work for me, and leave it at that.

How could you even think about not including the child (unless he/she is over the age of 18) in the petition? A child must go with the mother, unless there are circumstances we are not aware of.

Again, you are incorrect. You need to READ more, rather than trying to present your opinions as fact.

Maybe you should actually read the very site you post on! http://www.visajourney.com/faq/k1k2visa-I129f.html

"If your fiance(e) has unmarried children under 21, they can move to the US also. List all children under age 21 on the I-129F petition, whether or not they are going to move to the United States. When this petition is approved, the fiance(e) can apply for the K1/K2 visa."

See those words, "if", "can", and "whether or not"? Are you unable to infer the meaning?

And WRT me not including the child- get off your high moral horse, please. I never said I was seeking to leave her child behind, in fact everything I've written thus far (including the question in the OP!) points directly to the contrary.

@ Boiler: Thanks for the suggestion, but visitor visas from Colombia are nearly impossible to obtain. The applicant must demonstrate proof of significant financial, career and family ties. A bank manager w/significant salary and who owns his own home would have a tough time getting one. Apologies for running two threads, I misposted and well, both seemed to blow up before I could delete one.

It is not US immigration's goal, or purpose, to "service" anyone other than those wishing to immigrate. That is their only purpose for existing. Uncle Sam is not demanding you rush into a sham marriage, on the contrary the govt. wants you to be sure before you go bring your significant other here to live with you. (It is not only so the beneficiary will not become a public charge that getting the visa requires the Affidavit of Support be filled out by the petitioner. Filling that document out, and knowing that you are financially responsible for that person should also make you think whether this is really what you want.)

No kidding it made me think, thats WHY I asked the question in the first place!

Stating that you do not want to get married yet, you're in effect saying that you don't know if you love this woman enough.

That's retarded and you know it. How many guys out there have girlfriends hinting at marriage? And of those guys, how many still have reservations about taking that next step? Does that mean they don't love the women they are with "enough"? Does that mean they are not interested in making a life together? After two failed marriages my mother settled down with a nice guy, but they aren't married... its been 9 years now, and neither seems to show any desire to get married again.

This visa is truly only for those that are sure that they want to marry that person.

Says you and Bush! Who are you to decide who I can and can't date, and how/where? Like I said before, they don't seem to offer a visa that fits my situation (if they do, please enlighten me, I haven't discovered one) and it isn't likely they will until there is widespread immigration reform. Riddle me this: Why should USCs with foreign spouses from countries like England and Canada be able to obtain visitor visas to be with their loved ones, yet I am excluded, because my spouse happens to be from a country with a spotty heritage (a good deal of which is due to being ravaged by AMERICAN desire for coke, and companies like Chiquita and Exxon paying off FARCanos to protect their investments while they steal national resources)? So until there is equality all-around when issuing visas, I feel no regret about exploiting the K-1 to acheive this end.

You are free to travel to her country....take your six weeks vacation and go visit her, come back and think about it and do it again the following year.....and repeat until you know for sure that this woman is the one you want to live out your days with. Otherwise you're setting yourself and her up for an exercise in futility. The K-1 visa is not a "let's date and see if we're meant to be together or not" visa. Don't use it for that purpose!

No offense but you just aren't making sense here. How does visiting for 6 weeks, then being absent for 10.5 months, in any way simulate a functioning healthy relationship? What woman would put up with that? My goal is to get her here and THEN we can feel each other out. And with all due respect, I will use the K-1 to whatever end I choose. The government doesn't care about my relationship, it cares about money- of which I am something like ~6 times the poverty limit- so as long as I meet/exceed the same requirements you do, you have no right to tell me how to date.

How would you feel if your wife was asking this question here on this board - because to me it sounds like you are more concerned about your wallet than about your wife and her child. Who is to say that you won't LOSE everything you have and she will have to support you, who is to say that you won't (God forbid) crash your car and become disable and she will have to love you above her wallet and stay with you and take care of you, both financially and emotionally and that's what marriage is about, for better or for worse.

Well to answer the first of your hypothetical questions; my girl is no spring chicken, she knows the deal. Were our positions reversed, I would fully expect her to ask the same questions- I don't want to marry an idiot, and to not ask these questions would be frankly, irresponsible and stupid. Is this not the entire reason this forum exists, to answer questions about the immigration process?

I think it is pretty pathetic, If I may say that, for you to be so afraid to be stuck with the bill.

As far as I know marriage is a potentially never ending unlimited support proposition and there will be risks liek everything else in life.

You are contradicting yourself.

On one hand you state marriage is a "potentially never ending unlimited support proposition" and risky.

Yet you call me pathetic and scared for trying to weigh out every possible outcome?

Whereas you, who is "shooting for eternity" are only capable of seeing a single positive outcome.

Which is worse, me for being pathetic and scared, or you for being a shortsighted fool?

You seem to think that love requires a departure from one's practical senses- good luck with that.

Is this your first serious relationship? The puppylove phase only lasts so long.

We have all gone through I-864's and we are all responsible people, who have a bigger love for our spouses than we have for our wallets.

THis is about love and trust, and if you are thinking divorce, sounds like your marriage is going to be a very unhappy one. I mean look at you:

You already have the amount you will give her when you divorce.... you seem so convinced that your marriage is going to fail

Yes, I'm just an absolute ogre, because I've given thought to what might happen if things don't work out, and how things can remain equitable should she return to her country. Oh yeah, thats much worse than some people who hit their wives when things go bad, or some USC's who seek to exploit immigration laws/fear of deportation in order to keep their foreign spouse in line, yeah, I'm just the American devil here... sending her home with a year's salary, I should be ashamed!

Sorry to say man, but you are bringing this woman and this child away from everything they know and cherish and you have shown that you don't care about them at all.

When you assume, it makes an ### out of u and m- well, just you really. Good job not knowing the situation worth a damn. It was her that broached the idea of marriage, not me- whether she wants to leave is entirely her decision. WRT: taking her and her child away from everything they know and cherish. Go check out wikipedia and look up Sincelejo. Then read something about the decades-old conflict in Colombia, and you know, generally have some semblance of an idea about what I'm actually "taking them away from" before you open your mouth.

But , upon reading this post, I dont think you are really interested in marriage. To me, love is like an orgasm. YOu really have no idea what it is, until you have it.

You are very astute. I don't know if I want to get married yet. My preference would be to date for a year or so, then decide.

However, I have roughly 6 weeks of vacation yearly... yea, thats not going to cut it.

There's some ~5000 miles between us, and current US immigration policies do a poor job servicing those who are on the fence about the issue.

After research, student/employment/visitor types of visas just aren't going to be a possibility.

So that leaves K-1, and here's the unvarnished truth:

If Uncle Sam demands I rush into a sham marriage (because honestly, 90 days to discover all a person's flaws is just &%#ing laughable) just so I can further explore this relationship, then so be it.

If we stick it out 2 years, and it comes time to adjust status, IMHO thats when the real "I do's" are said.

Bobbie thank you for such a detailed personal account, this is EXACTLY the info I was looking for (and the very conversation I am dreading myself). My urge for a pre-nup doesn't come from some inflated feeling of self-worth, its from my desire to protect my current family, specificly my learning-disabled younger brother, aging grandmother, and mother who, bless her heart, works at a non-profit organization and makes ####### for salary. These are the people who I have to care for in my life NOW, and they have to be worked into any future plans.

Regarding a split when the child is involved; the tone of my original post implied that I'm against supporting this child. Not so. What I object to, is the government being the one who decides how much and how often, of which they are frequently a very poor judge. That is something that I would seek to settle between us as parents. As for the emotional ties... that is the real tough subject. When I met the lady in question, I didn't know she had a child.. that wasn't part of my plan at all, but slowly became something I'm accostomed to. Her little girl is 8 now; if we were divorced and they stayed in the country, I wouldn't cut off contact with either, and certainly would help them out financially.. BUT- I would want HER to be her daughter's primary caregiver, not me (particularly should she find herself a new beau). In the case they choose not to remain in-country, I would provide for their tickets home, and a severance gift of sorts (maybe like $2,500US; around a year's salary or so where she's from) and probably then still visit if she'd let me.

Also:

As to what we have to lose:

Don't forget that foreign spouses leave behind their entire life when they come to the US.

We leave behind our homes, careers, families- and don't automatically get them back in case things go bad in the relationship.

Well here is a valid argument, and I think is what mozplay was alluding to.

Whichever spouse is moving undoubtedly bears the heavier burden.

I should hope that one could always return to their family, and homes are replaceable.

However loss of career, I will grant, is a pretty tough blow, especially after a multi-year absence.

Only remedy for that would be to give assistance once they have returned to their home country.. as I said above, not something I have a problem with.

I am guessing people from select countries may also experience problems repatriating themselves.. also rough, but not something I can really help with.

Regarding the I-846, I've read and (I think) understood the guidelines, but was unsure if I there were additional state/federal laws that would require me to provide for the child after a divorce (assuming they don't go back to their country of course).

My thanks again to both of you.

I really don' think it is my (or anyone else's) responsibility to outline the risks, both emotional and financial, that both parties undertake. If you are a troll - go away. If you are not, then it is my sincerest hope that by researching on this forum and others like it, that you find the answers you seek.

The best of luck and happiness to you both.

Mo

You guys don't seem to understand what a troll is. I made a concise, on-topic post looking for information in a place where I thought people would have some idea.

Predictably, I'm flamed in classic internets fashion. GG y'all. Who actually would put the effort into trolling a site like this? I'm not some biblethumping anti-immigration nut.

And it IS your responsibility to outline the risks- it became so when you bashed my statement, and when I asked you to back up yours. If you have some information to present, then get to it.

If you just posted to call me a troll, have a tall glass of STFU.

You may want to rethink statements like that on this forum. Many of us here are the 'foreign spouses' not just the USCs and yes ... WE HAVE A LOT TO LOSE. I hope you will learn to see that for your own spouse-to-be's sake.

Mo

I sense I've touched a nerve here. You've obviously misinterpreted what I've written as: "Americans are teh BEST!!! people in other countries don't have ######!"

My understanding was that, in order to undergo this process, I have to enter into a legally binding contract with the US government; which could ultimately lead to seizure of a large percentage of my income.

The foreign spouse is not required to enter into any such agreement, which was the basis for my statement.

Since I am new to this forum, and obviously ignorant to many aspects of this process, perhaps you can elaborate on what risks the foreign spouse faces. I apologize for my sweeping generalization earlier, but this is a forum for people immigrating to the US; the presumption being that the foreign spouse actually WANTS to be here.

man thinking of divorce even before you even ask her to marry you...

I dont think you would have to pay child support if you get a divorce. Unless you adopt her then your on the hook.

Take care

The idea of marriage, period, makes me...

Unfortunately there's no such thing as a "girlfriend" or "getting to know you" visa, someone in our gov'ment should really get to work on that.

I love the girl, but would I risk my future (and that of other members of my family, who I assist financially) for her? nusry.

Muchas gracias for the info tho.

While I do understand why some people worry about this, it amazes me how people marry these days and they are already "considering" divorce. I do realize that everyone is just protecting their assets and their pockets, but it still crazy. I am 23 and I am marrying a brazlian girl and I am shooting for eternity and I haven't for once second thought about having to support her in case of a divorce... anyway,

Thanks for the info. I'm pretty young as well (26) so I can't claim to be an expert on relationships, but what I do know is this:

The joy and benefits provided by a stable and loving marriage are only eclipsed by the tragedies that follow when one ends.

So I try to be pragmatic... I expect, and prepare for the fall. That way, if it works out, I'm pleasantly surprised. If not, well I saw it coming, and the relationship can end amicably.

Think of it like Texas hold 'em. There's two aces in your hand, but everyone's got a flush draw... you can lay it down and still feel good about yourself, because its the right thing to do.

But sometimes, you see those aces and think you CANT lose... and in the ensuing chase, get your ### handed to you.

There's not a whole lot your foreign spouse stands to lose if things go bad. Remember that, for the most part, its your future in the pot. Protect yourself accordingly.

Sorry repost, hit the wrong section before:

New to the forum, sorry if this has already been asked but I wasn't able to find a specific example of my situation:

I am considering marriage to a Colombian woman who happens to have a child (by someone else, not myself).

Lets say that I decide to include this child in her K1 petition, and both come to live in the US.

Now my question; if the marriage is sustained long enough for her to adjust status/remain in the country (2 years?) and she then divorces me, what kind of obligation will I face regarding child support for her daughter? Will I be exempt due to the fact I'm not the biological father, or is this obligation applied to me simply because I married the mother? Despite being divorced, will I still be held to obligations outlined in the Affidavit of Support?

Final question: I will of course, seek to limit some of these obligations through the use of a pre-nuptual agreement. From what I've read, I can avoid things like alimony, but prenups have no effect on child support payments. What are some steps I can take to protect my assets in case my marriage to this beautiful mother-of-one goes south?

Thanks much.

New to the forum, sorry if this has already been asked but I wasn't able to find a specific example of my situation:

I am considering marriage to a Colombian woman who happens to have a child (by someone else, not myself).

Lets say that I decide to include this child in her K1 petition, and both come to live in the US.

Now my question; if the marriage is sustained long enough for her to adjust status/remain in the country (2 years?) and she then divorces me, what kind of obligation will I face regarding child support for her daughter? Will I be exempt due to the fact I'm not the biological father, or is this obligation applied to me simply because I married the mother? Despite being divorced, will I still be held to obligations outlined in the Affidavit of Support?

Final question: I will of course, seek to limit some of these obligations through the use of a pre-nuptual agreement. From what I've read, I can avoid things like alimony, but prenups have no effect on child support payments. What are some steps I can take to protect my assets in case my marriage to this beautiful mother-of-one goes south?

Thanks much.