Logres

To me it's like asking why a mass murderer's mother let their child kill. Usually the mother has no control over what their grown child does or does not do, they can only hope the child makes the right decisions. Mother's of murderers do not get thrown in jail with their child for giving birth to them. So why do we blame God? He did not create evil and He does not condone it. Whether ppl partake of it is their personal problem. That's my view on it.

Ageed. So we have just both agreed that God is not all-powerful.

How do you figure? Just because he does not intervene does not mean that he can't intervene. Intervention would change the future, possibly causing harm (for example, let's say that one of the victims of 9/11 would have gone on to kill someone in a car accident). God wouldn't save one person at the expense of another.

Fair point! so why pray to him?

Not concluded, that god does not use his power to intervene is not an argument that he doesn't have it.

So you have proof he has?

Have you read C.S. Lewis' The Problem of Pain?

Great question, yes I have......... I answered it in my dissertation....... "To what extent do the proofs of C.S Lewis defend the existence of God?"......

Although He gave us free wills, He has the power to intervene . Example: God hardened and softened the heart of Pharoh as well as softened the heart of King Artaxerxes.

Why didn't he intervene during 911 then? did he want those people to burn?

That is your belief, and it is fine with me.

I don't believe anything......... but a God who allows such suffering to others is evil......... do you believe a good God allowed 911 to happen, and why?

To me it's like asking why a mass murderer's mother let their child kill. Usually the mother has no control over what their grown child does or does not do, they can only hope the child makes the right decisions. Mother's of murderers do not get thrown in jail with their child for giving birth to them. So why do we blame God? He did not create evil and He does not condone it. Whether ppl partake of it is their personal problem. That's my view on it.

Ageed. So we have just both agreed that God is not all-powerful.

Prayer is way of talking honestly to the one you trust most, Yourself!

That is a religous, not philosophical point....... not luck though

That is your belief, and it is fine with me.

I don't believe anything......... but a God who allows such suffering to others is evil......... do you believe a good God allowed 911 to happen, and why?

I am wondering how you came to this premise? We were all left here, to do what we wish and make the best of things.

So is God on his holidays forevermore afetr the 7th day?

Free will for all people.

God does not interfere with that which happens on earth because 'he' gave each individual the free will to make their own decisions. If 'he' were to intervene here on earth then someone's free will is automatically compromised. Free will is essential because otherwise people are just God's puppets which to my understanding, was not what 'he' wanted when he called about creation.

There really is no necessity to believe in anything more evil than people, some of whom do things that result in terrible harm to other people. The 'pain' that results from the actions of humankind is in many ways to me more easy to explain than those that are a result of natural phenomenons.

Natural disasters are the result of how the world works and in fact in some ways that is harder to understand. Why would a super being, a creator who is all powerful, create the world/universe in such a way as to allow for the multitude of natural phenomenon that can harm both mankind and animals?

That being said, I don't believe in God so my opinion is probably not relevant.

Un derstood, so why do people pray to God if he is skiing in the Alpine?

Tool alert!

Agreed, I did not make the Alpine post myself........... happy to put my name to most other things..........

That is your belief, and it is fine with me.

I don't believe anything......... but a God who allows such suffering to others is evil......... do you believe a good God allowed 911 to happen, and why?

I am wondering how you came to this premise? We were all left here, to do what we wish and make the best of things.

So is God on his holidays forevermore afetr the 7th day?

Free will for all people.

God does not interfere with that which happens on earth because 'he' gave each individual the free will to make their own decisions. If 'he' were to intervene here on earth then someone's free will is automatically compromised. Free will is essential because otherwise people are just God's puppets which to my understanding, was not what 'he' wanted when he called about creation.

There really is no necessity to believe in anything more evil than people, some of whom do things that result in terrible harm to other people. The 'pain' that results from the actions of humankind is in many ways to me more easy to explain than those that are a result of natural phenomenons.

Natural disasters are the result of how the world works and in fact in some ways that is harder to understand. Why would a super being, a creator who is all powerful, create the world/universe in such a way as to allow for the multitude of natural phenomenon that can harm both mankind and animals?

That being said, I don't believe in God so my opinion is probably not relevant.

Un derstood, so why do people pray to God if he is skiing in the Alpine?

That is your belief, and it is fine with me.

I don't believe anything......... but a God who allows such suffering to others is evil......... do you believe a good God allowed 911 to happen, and why?

God is sovereign. This means He is the supreme authority over everything, including sin and it's consequences.

In His omniscience and wisdom, God will allow disaster and evil to touch our lives so we can grow from the experience. He had His reasons for not stopping 911, maybe you can ask Him why.

Suffering and evil are inevitable parts of a fallen world. He is in control of the universe.

Though it is within His power to give everyone a perfect existence, that wouldn't be in our best interest. Trials and suffering often drive folks to God, and for those who already believe, He uses harsh circumstances to mature our faith.

The God you believe in sounds like a devil to me.

Stanford does ivery wewll here:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/

It is a problem between there being an all-powerful God and him letting bad things happen on our earth.......... eg. either he isn't all-powerful and lets bad things happen or he is all-powerful and isn't all good.

So why did God let 911 happen? Is he really not all-powerful or is he evil?

If there is an all powerful God, then that means there is a pretty powerful force of evil out there as well. You can't really have one without the other. So when bad things happen it is the evil side influencing the world.

My biggest problem with religion isn't the idea of a higher being or power. It's with the concept that if I don't subscribe to the 'right,' religio, but I lead an overall good life that still means I'm going to hell.

No, belief in the existence of one God, does not mean another God necessary.................

Stanford does ivery wewll here:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/

It is a problem between there being an all-powerful God and him letting bad things happen on our earth.......... eg. either he isn't all-powerful and lets bad things happen or he is all-powerful and isn't all good.

So why did God let 911 happen? Is he really not all-powerful or is he evil?

You are a Philosophy major? Did you not read Descartes? Kiekergaard? Wittgenstein? Some of the greatest philosophers believed in God.

Philosophy is not about 'who', it is about 'why'....... None of them has a valid argument for their proof for the existence of God.

Free will.

Free Will what?

"Maybe there is no actual place called hell. Maybe hell is just having to listen to our grandparents breathe through their noses when they're eating sandwiches."

Jim Carrey.

weak

Pain can only be defined by the individual and not by the observer.

Fair point....... classically it is known as the 'problem of evil', not 'problem of pain'.

Stanford does ivery wewll here:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/

It is a problem between there being an all-powerful God and him letting bad things happen on our earth.......... eg. either he isn't all-powerful and lets bad things happen or he is all-powerful and isn't all good.

So why did God let 911 happen? Is he really not all-powerful or is he evil?

"Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon our vineyards; there it enters the roots of the vines, to be changed into wine; a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

Also applicable to beer.

I studied philosophy (not theology) and have clear-cut ideas.......... what philosophical ideas do other people have?

I personally find the 'problem of pain' an interesting subject that Christians have never answered.......

Churchill is the master of quotations!!

"Never give in! Never give in! Never, never, never, never - in nothing great or small, large or petty. Never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense."

Good to see a C.S. Lewis quote BTW!!

The Rugby Union World Cup is kicking off in two days time in France. England will be playing the US on Saturday.

Setanta Sports looks to be showing a fair number of matches, has anyone got any other ideas where Rugby is shown in the US?

We are in the N. Virginia area, any tips on where would be a good vantage point would be much appreciated. It would be great to find a bar where there is a strong interest in rugby......

Cheers.

The US plays rugby?

Australia plays rugby?

woot woot!! Go All Blacks!!

Au Reviour All Noir.......

Instant justice?

Sick ######

Get a &^*

Everyone sounds so empassioned by these Dem/Rep threads, where do they fit?

This all makes it sound pretty sad, that everyone is buying into a pair of parites that they'd rather be shot of.........

This country was set up by some brilliant politicains - no thoughts to take the power back?

So you are saying it is the ultimate fight of the middle ground?......... sad.

Welcome to Airbus' world.

No kidding, but the A380 is finally entering commercial service on October 25th with Singapore Airlines.

Yeah but it was supposed to be flying commercially for some time by now. They had a series of issues with that one, too.

Can't wait to fly on one of those once. Their gigantic.

Correction:

"They're Gigantic"

I didn't think that Finland was in Scananavia............

I am new to this country and perplexed by the reelings on VJ that get labelled as 'politics'.......... could someone tell me what American Politics is?

You're not trying to tell me hat the Reb/Dem's really represent this country?

The doctor at the medical appointment specified that there's a new law regarding if

DUI.

I had a DUI 8yrs ago and was banned for 2yrs..

He took a blood sample to check liver enzyme levels.

Ive theyre too high it could affect my visa he sais??

Anyone had experience with this??

Worried!

I had to have the toxicology test on my blood too, as I had a drink-related arrest.

I too was very worried, but when the tests came back they said that I did have slightly raised enzyme levels there was no problem. Did not get mentioned at the interview either. I would say I have drunk a fair bit in my time, so unless you're an alcoholic I would guess that you're OK.

Good luck, and let me know if you have any questions.