TCKB-07

1 hour ago, SusieQQQ said:

You answered my question, albeit inadvertently.  

 

Hope it all works out for you. 

What question was that? 

Thanks. One way or another, it will. 

On 1/19/2019 at 8:36 PM, carmel34 said:

If your boyfriend or fiance in Ghana is a chief with a lot of wealth and influence there, and does not want to leave, he will never be able to immigrate to the US, become a permanent resident, get a green card, or eventually naturalize and become a US citizen.  Immigrant visas are for immigration, i.e., to permanently live in the US, at least long enough to satisfy residency requirements to become a citizen, and that takes a minimum of three years after becoming a legal permanent resident.  There is no way he can become a green card holder or a US citizen living in Ghana, even if married according to the laws of Ghana, to a US citizen.  If his B2 visa is denied, then you have already stated your plan B, to move to Ghana, marry him there according to the laws of his country, and live there with him happily ever after.  Just keep in mind that if you do this, it will continue to be a challenge for him to get a B2 visa to visit your family in the US because Ghana is a high visa fraud country so his applications will always be given a lot of scrutiny, even after you are "sort of married" to him, as a CO or CBPO might see your relationship and be concerned that if he goes to the US as a tourist with a US citizen girlfriend/fiancee/sort of wife, he might stay in the US and try to adjust status while there.  I must say you have been so good about all of the comments given, and appreciative of the advice, so good for you!  And good luck with your journey wherever it takes you.  You will do a lot of good in Ghana it sounds like.

I am so early in everything, I'm not even married yet. I am really just trying to figure out the best way to go about such a big move, when and how to do everything and not trying to make any serious mistakes in the beginning. My plan A is to move to Ghana this year, build a home, build a school and help our community. This was my goal prior to meeting my fiance' and still my plan now. Ironically, people in Ghana could speculate that I am using him to get dual citizenship in Ghana, or marrying him for his wealth and status.  How about that for irony lol. I have a lot to think about and a lot to discuss. Of course no one can predict the future, but I like to try to anticipate it and plan for it as much as possible. I appreciate your reply. 

9 hours ago, bakphx1 said:

Fly your family to Ghana?  You’re taking kids into this?  Please tell me you’re not forcing children into this mess.

Well I meant my adult family as in aunts and siblings. As a matter of fact, YES I have children and yes they are moving with me to Ghana and they are very excited about going. And they absolutely love my fiancee. Yes, i have also educated them on tradition that would also be theirs if we were not forced here.  It is your ignorance that is showing by your statement. What makes you think I am forcing my children into anything, let alone a mess? Just because something is not your culture, or your way of doing things or your preference, it does not mean it is wrong, nor does it make is messy. Last I checked, monogamous marriages have pretty high divorce rates in the US, and last time I checked, they far outnumber the divorce rates in African countries. Did you have anything constructive to add or were you just replying to be ignorant and judgmental? Good day you, Sir or Ma'am. 

14 hours ago, AnnaMaria said:

Stay on topic or they will close this thread.

 

Also OP, my VA healthcare did not cover outside the US. So if you plan on living on Ghana that is something you might want to consider.

Thank you. I am also retired, so my Tricare will cover me, thankfully. It may mean being reimbursed in certain instances, but if I need to get sent to like Germany, I will be good to go. 

14 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

If he gets a B visa, have him come here and meet your family. Don’t get married till you go back to Ghana. The rest is confusing because you talk variously about living there and getting him citizenship, mutually exclusive factors. I come from a country where polygamous tribal marriages are legal, it’s not Ghana, but I’m sure there are parallels. Just be sure you know where in the hierarchy you’ll be. And why. Why does this Ghanaian chief want to import a US bride?

 

—

and yes, perceptions about Ghana matter, maybe not here but certainly at the consulate. 56% of Ghanaian applicants for B visas are refused. It also has one of the highest refusal rates for DV visas (which are more often than not a slam dunk for those being selected). There are forums where Ghanaians talk openly about falsifying documents, lying at interview etc. different culture about a lot of things,not just marriage, but a lot of that falls foul of US immigration law.

Noted. Thank you. He is not importing me. I have been planning to move to Ghana for about 3 years now. I moved to Hawaii to go finish school and we met while I was in Ghana with a friend during a break. My friend's husband and him are childhood friends. So not a typical met online type of thing. We have had a lot of discussions. As well with his family and mine. As this is a new concept for all of us in the US, and they have embraced it (my family), it says something. 

Wow, 56%?! That's high. I had no idea it was that bad. Thank you. I sent an invitation, in my mind, with Hawaii being a big tourist place, who would not want to come and visit? It's not easy to live here so most wouldn't imagine staying here without the means because you get stuck. That's my mind, but I seem to think opposite of what a consulate would think. Time will tell, regardless, I will be moving to Ghana soon. 

14 hours ago, AnnaMaria said:

If he doesn't intend on living here, he is some kind of chief with wealth, what US benefits are you trying to get him? I'm a married veteran with a 100% disability, and my wife (who I've been married to solely for almost 6 years), doesn't get some kind of extraordinary benefits. Spousal benefits for veterans are typically a benefit payment increase, educational opportunity (roughly 1000 a month or so), an average option of supplemental healthcare (if approved), and I think that's the most noteworthy. I dont think that's a good reason to want your marriage to he recognized here, seems like a sketchy use of government funds in my opinion.

 

So my question is, if you plan on living in Ghana indefinitely after your illegal US marriage, the only benefit that would remotely serve that kind of marriage is a benefits increase assuming the US government pays citizens living in Ghana. (Some countries they will not pay benefits if you reside there, check their website to confirm your situatuon).

 

Unless he divorces, stay in Ghana. A B-2 is a tourist visa, the moment they find out the intent is to marry on it, it is game over and a denial.

 

Enjoy being a chieftess or whatever the spouse is called and enjoy his wealth with him, if he doesn't want to give up being some kind of ruler, then he has no desire to respect the rule of law here in the US, thus trying to marry him here under false pretense, or illegal way is futile. 

I am 100%  P&T and retired. So besides Tricare, I also still get MAC flights and access to installations. I plan to travel a lot with our children, so it will be beneficial if we can do that on Military flights. Yes, I will still get my benefits while living overseas as i am still a US citizen and a retired Veteran. 

Thankfully, I have my own wealth. Combined, we will do great things for the community. I have my answers about the legality, thanks. I am also not marrying under false pretense. But I appreciate your advise non the less. 

16 hours ago, HonoraryCitizen said:

You’re just going to get a lot of people here ######## on you in a knee jerk fashion because they do not understand Ghanaian customs and partly perhaps becauseyour explanation was not very clear to them



 



I am Ghanaian and I happen to understand what you are doing. He’s coming over here for a customary marriage ceremony with you. In actual fact that marriage is not recognized by the USA  until you register it in the Ghanaian courts (or registry) under our customary marriage ordinance. Thus so far as you do not register it, you have not committed bigamy per USA perspective. It’s akin to people in the USA having a church wedding but not signing the documents. So what you’re doing is a marriage ceremony (which will be recognized by his people because they only care about the ceremony) which is not legally recognized by the USA.



 



Next you talk about filing a B2 visa for him. That is inaccurate, nobody files or petitions a B2 for anyone. You may be inviting him however you’re not filing for him. He’s applying himself. Heck he can still apply without your invitation. Additionally in the future he does not have to fill out on his forms that he’s married to you because he’s not per the USA until the marriage is registered.



 



Additinally although he has a stool wife, if he hasn’t registered it in Ghana, then he’s actually not married to the stool wife in Ghana (per the USA) and hence he’s actually single and free to marry you and register it in Ghana without either of you falling afoul of bigamy laws in the USA.



 



I hope this clarifies things for you. You may consult a Ghanaian family law practitioner for clarification.



 



The link below gives some perspective.



 



http://www.kma.gov.gh/kma/?marriage-services&page=5354

Phew! Medaase paa!  It's hard to explain something that is new to me to people that don't understand it, either.  I appreciate the link.  You put me at ease. I really appreciate your explanation. HE did apply for his B2. His appointment is next month, I hope he can overcome the scrutiny that Ghana is facing because of some fraudulent people. I personally think he has strong ties, outside of a whole community that counts on him. 

22 hours ago, geowrian said:

As long as you do not legally marry in the US, it wouldn't be illegal.

The first step is getting the tourist visa. Until then, any talk of marrying in the US is pretty moot. If he wants to visit, then he applies for the visa and gets that first. The circumstances noted here make this a very large hurdle.

He will need to declare that he is married on the DS-160.

 

If you cross the line into a (il)legal marriage (not just an unregistered marriage), you're in for a boatload of trouble for anything related to the US.

The moment immigration or other government benefits are being brought into the picture, you need a legal marriage. Unless the prior marriage is terminated first, any such legal marriage is off the table in the US.

 

If you have a legal marriage in Ghana (again..not just an unregistered one!), then that marriage is not recognized by the US and you're in the same position as if you (il)legally married in the US.

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate it. This is what I was thinking, but was not sure. 

1 minute ago, mushroomspore said:

On top of this, the bigamy/polygamy will be a factor in any future attempts for permanent residency. A ton of scrutiny should be expected.

Noted. Perhaps I need to adjust my desire for him to share my benefits. He has no desire for permanent residency and prior to meeting him, I had no desire to move back to the US once I left. Thank you. 

2 minutes ago, millefleur said:

Sounds like you've got a lot going on in terms of plans.

 

Getting a B1/B2 visa if the applicant has a significant other who is a USC highly increases the risk of denial. That's regardless of the bigamy situation or not. I think there's just a huge chance he would be denied a B1/B2 based on that alone, let alone the whole confusing marriage situation. I don't see how he could get approved honestly, but you can always try. The thing is, he has to be 100% honest about everything on the application and during the interview, otherwise it would be considered fraud/misrepresentation.

Hmmm. I see how having a significant other here would hurt him. I hope him having strong ties to his home country and the fact that I am moving there this spring will overcome that. If not, it's okay. I have been trying to get my family to visit the continent, so this is a good reason to do so. Thank you for your reply. 

5 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

With US immigration, there really is no grey.  It is yes/no.  You have to abide by the rules to succeed, and it is expensive in both time and money.  Just the way it is....

yes, I am realizing how black and white immigration laws are now. Time and money, we have...I just don't want to make any ignorant mistakes. 

36 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

If he got divorced and you were able to legally marry him, you could potentially bring him over on a spousal visa, and he could get an SSN and be a beneficiary to your benefits.

 

Otherwise, your scenario is not legit.

Okay. Thank you for your reply. My only desire is to do this legit. I have too much to lose to potentially get caught up with fraud. 

20 minutes ago, aaron2020 said:

You're the one that is completely missing the point.

No I am getting some points, not all. I am saying you are missing MY point when I made the analogy. I was looking for the grey, I was getting black and white answers. However, I think I have the answers I was looking for. Thanks. 

5 minutes ago, JFH said:

Indeed. If I were the OP I wouldn’t bet the farm on this wedding/party/celebration happening anywhere on US soil. 

That sounds like marriage fraud. So he would only divorce his current wife and legally marry you to get US citizenship?

No, the talks of divorce have already been happening. He is not seeking US citizenship either. He is content and no desire to immigrate to the US. It is me that is trying to look at all possibilities down the line. My plan was to move to Ghana before I met him, but I like to have contingency plans. I would hate for an uninformed decision I made today to affect me down the line. This is why I am asking. 

9 minutes ago, JFH said:

The problem is you are using very specific terminology which has a very clear definition in the USA but less so in Ghana. In the USA there is only one form of marriage - the legal union of 2 people who are exclusively committed to each other. It is a legal process and in the USA it’s very black and white - you are either legally married or you are not. Everything else - jumping the broom, hand-fasting, promise ceremonies, engagements, polygamous unions, etc have no legal standing are not considered marriages. 

 

In Ghana it’s different and there are “shades of grey” when it comes to marriage. If you come on to a US immigration forum and talk about “marriage” in the USA it is assumed you are talking about a legal process here with a license and certificate. Don’t use the word “marriage” here if it’s not that. 

Understood. My mistake. You're right and I have been trying to explain, unsuccessfully, that it's viewed different. I'm not well versed in any of it, so I did the best I could with explaining. I appreciate you taking the time to understand where I was coming from and where I was going waaay wrong. 

2 minutes ago, NigeriaorBust said:

  Traditional marriages can get you in a bind at the embassy. The officers know what local rules are.  In Nigeria paying bride price can make you too married for a K1 because it is a obligation that makes you committed .  So a traditional marriage in the US could cause issues at the embassy.   The best path is , no marriage until the first marriage is over then get married  If you have a traditional marriage while he is still married and you get a officer with a bad mood they could demand you terminate ( annul )  the first commitment and then remarry.  

Okay, I see. Thank you so much. You've been most helpful. I will revert to my original plan to marry next year in Ghana and he can get divorced in between if he finds it worth the benefits of being able to get US citizenship down the line. 

20 minutes ago, aaron2020 said:

Polygamous marriages are not valid for benefits.  

If the original marriage is not even considered a marriage in the US (regardless of being polygamous or monogamous), he divorced and we remarried via a recognizable way according to the US. I'm aware benefits would not be authorized, I was HR in the army and very well aware of how DEERS works. 

6 minutes ago, aaron2020 said:

Jumping the broom was not illegal.  Polygamy is illegal. 

 

Have him tell the CO that he wants the B-2 to come marry you while he is already married.  Since you think it's okay, then there shouldn't be any problems.

You're completely missing my point. It was an analogy to show that it was an accepted marriage amongst the slaves, but not by the government. The ceremony we would be performing in the US would not be recognized as a marriage, even if he weren't married prior. It is considered a marriage in Ghana though. 

This is why I am ASKING questions before I make any mistakes. No one is intentionally trying to defraud. Not everyone wants to party crash the US.  I am trying to leave the US as do many retired veterans. He wants the B2 to come visit and meet my family. We discussed the possibility to get married at that time, vs. later because it's more traditional and cost affective. It's weighing possibilities to make the best decision. 

3 minutes ago, NigeriaorBust said:

   If he were to marry you here and then want to immigrate later he would have to answer the question on the immigration forms  about committing crimes even is he wasn't charged for any.  That is the catch 22 that could make him ineligible for immigration benefits ( unless the current social foolery continues where crimes don't count )  .  As long as there is a marriage in existence prior you can not use any "marriage"  during that time to bring him here.  However if you have a marriage that isn't good for immigration you have to end that and create one that is good.   He will not be able to coat tail om any benefit you have as a spouse until you have a legally recognized relationship in the eyes of the US>  

Thank you! So hypothetically, if he were to get divorced, lets say, next year and he and I did a court marriage in 3 years, which is recognized in the eyes of the US, I could then petition for him to come over as my spouse? He has no desire to immigrate to the US. He is a Chief and has wealth. We both share a vision of improving conditions there, not fleeing them. It's me that has this wonder because of my own benefits that I want to share and they require him to have a SSN. I't not a must, but I wanted to find out. Thanks again!  

6 minutes ago, JFH said:

So it’s not a marriage then? It’s a party. 

Essentially, yes. Along with an agreement between the families and a paying of a dowery. literally, if no one said anything, no one would know we were married. There is no requirement to register or get a license. This is one of 3 ways to get married under their laws. It's like how slaves jumped the broom back in the day. In the eyes of the slave community, they were married, but it wasn't recognized otherwise....if that makes sense. 

Just now, JFH said:

It doesn’t matter what his original intent was. Tourism is tourism in all its shapes and sizes. The minute you exchange vows with him you are breaking the law in the USA. 

 

If you want any sort of married life with him, you will have to move to Ghana. He won’t be able to move here on a spousal visa. 

My intent has always been to move to Ghana. It was my intent before I met him.  He is fine with not moving to the US. I just wanted to know for future reference because I have benefits that I would like to share. If not, that's fine. That's kind of my point, I know not all marriages (especially traditional ones) are recognized by the US. So if we're not married by US standards (even if it were monogamous) then I figured it it would have to be done in a recognizable way in the future, regardless. 

2 minutes ago, JFH said:

It doesn’t matter where you are moving to. It’s illegal in the USA to marry in the USA someone who you know is already married (regardless of where they are from or what kind of wedding they had). That’s the point you missed. 

Gotcha. I assumed that because of the kind of wedding we are having, it would not be recognized as a marriage in the US because there is no license involved or registration. That is my stuck point. 

2 minutes ago, aaron2020 said:

Have him tell the CO at his B-2 visa interview that he's married in Ghana and wants a B-2 visa to come to the US to enter into a traditional marriage with you. 

As I stated, that was not the initial intent of applying for the B-2. I live in Hawaii, he wants to visit (who wouldn't?). The idea of marrying on this visit came up because it would be financially more feasible than my plan to fly my family to Ghana at the end of the year. This is why I am asking questions...so I don't step into an unanticipated mess. I see that my original plan to get married in Ghana is the best option. 

1 minute ago, JFH said:

Why go to the expense of bringing him here (assuming that he is even granted a visa in the first place, which is doubtful) for a marriage that is not only not recognized but also illegal. You would be knowingly participating in a crime. Why would you even consider that? 

I'm moving to Ghana where the marriage is not a crime. It's just traditionally, it is performed at that woman's family's home and he being a traditional ruler, he wanted to do things the traditional way as much as possible. We applied for the visitors visa for him to visit before we discussed his desire to perform the ceremony at my family's home, so that was not the intent of the B visa. He has never been to the US and meeting my family is important to him as I have already met his. He doesn't know US law, and I never thought I would find myself in this situation, so I am trying to figure it out. 

2 minutes ago, aaron2020 said:

Where's your family?  In the US?  Then, he is seeking a B-2 visa to come to the US to enter into a polygamous marriage which is ILLEGAL.

 

You are mistaking a traditional marriage where a person is too married for a K-1 and not married enough for a CR-1 with what you want to do.  In the former case, there is ONLY ONE MARRIAGE - nothing illegal.  You want to enter into a polygamous marriage in the US which is ILLEGAL.  BIG DIFFERENCE.

I understand what you are saying. Yes, they're in the US.  I think my confusion is coming from the idea that I was thinking that even if we get married at my family's house, it will be a traditional Ghanaian wedding, where it would not be registered with anyone, but performed on US soil. Many people call it an engagement and then have their "white wedding" as well. So I was thinking no one but our families would know we are married, by traditional customs. There would be no "white wedding" which is the one that is usually legally binding in other parts of the world- unless I'm mistaken.