dagobert2

Never even heard of it so I'll have to check it out. I'm a West Sider by the grace of God so I don't head over there too much. I'm gradually shifting that way since I live in Clifton now, but I do my best to stay west of 71.

I find those this side/that side divisions interesting. In Chicago, I was a southsider without caring a whole lot about what that meant other than my commuting time. And now I guess I am an eastsider...does it mean I've not been graced by the big guy? We're in Montgomery, definitely east of 71.

Never heard of this either. Do they offer classes for adults?

I'm afraid not. They are putting on a Russian version of The Wizard of Oz around the holidays. I'll let you know. You might get a kick out of it. My wife is teaching Russian at U of C though. Raymond Waters College to be precise. I believe they accept adult students.

The Windy City is nice, but it's something to drive for three straight hours and still be in the same city. You can be just about anywhere in the Queen City in under 45 minutes. Pretty cheap, too.

I couldn't agree more.

The only thing about beer from Marina's is I seldom remember what it tastes like..... or what happens after I drink it!

More beer better!

I've been a few times... COLD Baltika (I like 4 the best) and delicious chocolates, but not too much else there for me. My wife likes the place and probably goes once every month or two.

Do you know of any other Eastern European stores/restaurants in the area? Pickens are pretty slim around here. As I understand it, there's a restaurant in West Chester but, other than Marina's, that's about it.

The restaurant in West Chester is the only one I'm aware of. There is another Russian grocer at the intersection of Montgomery and Columbia Road which incidently is around the corner from the Russian School. The school is very cool. Teaches classes evenings and on weekends all in Russian, mainly for children with at least 1 Russian parent. These kids are known as "heritage speakers". They teach reading, writing, art, math, drama, dancing, etc. all in Russian. They have close to 80 students enrolled. You might need this info at some point, who knows... :yes: We've found that what Cincinnati lacks in variety it gains in accessibilty. That's comparing to Chicago.

Another beer to try is Golden Pheasant - a Czech beer actually..great Pilsner IMHO. Also at Marina's.

Hey Slim,

Congratulations to you guys. I haven't been active on the forum for quite some time but out of the blue my wife checked the forum this evening and told me about your post. So I had to drop a note and pass on our congrats. We actually started our journey in Chicago over 4 years ago and through job change landed in Cinci over a year ago. You've probably been to Marina's Deli a few times...maybe we'll run into you.

Thanks everyone for your feedback on this lively and controversial topic. At least getting a visitor's visa to Russia is easy. Don't we all wish the same were true the other way around. In this case my wife will arrive in Russia a week ahead of me so she will look into what the current rules are. The post office process sounds nice and easy if indeed it is still the process in Kazan. The last time I was there they were using the migration card stamping process along with some computer database process with the hotels. Didn't make a whole lot of sense and I ended up losing the migration card. That made for some nervous conversations with my wife-to-be and some unpleasant words from Moscow passport control but otherwise no big deal. So I guess we'll see what the game is this time. I am looking forward to the trip. It has been nearly two years since I have been there.

I will be taveling to Kazan in July to visit with my wife's family for a week. I am applying for a tourist visa to save time and hassle but won't be staying in a hotel. What is the best way to register the tourist visa and get the migration card stamped?

Thanks,

Dagobert2

I remember first driving with Olga in her Lada (or as she referred to it, her "lady") in and around Kazan. I considered her a pretty decent driver of moderate experience. When she came for a visit in the US again, she asked to drive one day. It was on a very challenging expressway in the Chicago area that was under heavy construction (I80 Borman Expressway). I was scared to death. The concept of staying in her lane or lane changes was obviously foreign and that was a really bad situation to be finding that out as the 18 wheelers kept reminding us. When she finally moved here for good I was very nervous at first. Lane changes, stopping distance, merging, blind spots were all very new concepts and had to be "taught". But she has improved her skills very quickly. Santa brought her a new GPS and after only 2 months in the US she was cruising the greater Chicago area like a pro. Now she is comfortable in most situations. She pointed out to me that highway driving even for an experienced Russian driver from anywhere other than Moscow is a foreign concept by definition. The average driver simply doesn't venture from their local city by car. They take a train or fly. The "open road" is just too hazardous for all but the most experienced professional drivers.

BTW - hello all from Chris and Olga. It has been a while. Married life has a way of occupying one's "spare time".

I had a longer conversation with my wife now that she has returned from the interview in Moscow (K3/K4 visas approved ), It seems that Meditsina is administering the measles vaccine to applicants 35 and under. The reasoning does not seem to be the absense of a rubella vaccine but the US requirement for 2 MMRs as opposed to the Russian requirement for just 1 MMR. All the applicants who were there on Thursday were under 35 except one person. That person was not required to get the vaccine.

Does your wife know if anyone over 50 was given MMR vaccinations on her examination day?

I will ask when she returns home and post her response.

Just talked to my wife. She and my stepson are in Moscow for the medical exams and interview. The medical was on Thursday, and she said everyone at Meditsina that day had to get a measles vaccine. They were told that one measles vaccine (as required in Russia) is not enough according to American standards. They charged $30 a piece. Other than that everything went fairly well. The results pick-up on Friday was quite slow and took nearly two hours. Of the 8 women at the clinic there were 3 K1s, 1 K3 and 4 CR1s. It is cold and rainy in Moscow unfortunately but they are enjoying the city nonetheless. The interview is Monday and of course we are both feeling a bit anxious. I am spending the weekend cleaning the garage to pass the time. Monday morning I will wake early and try to call...

Last year while visiting Saint Petersburg we were standing across from the front of the Russian Admiralty building in a lovely park setting with a beautiful fountain. I pointed towards the entrance and said "Там матрос" or there is a sailor. She immediately became highly annoyed and indignant and said "absolutely not, you can not call this person a Матрос". Now, having been a sailor for some years in a prior life, I was quite confident in my identification of the individual standing there, my use of the word and its translation into Russian. So I voiced my insistance even stronger. Soon we were having quite an animated disagreement in the park, each of us sure of our position. Finally she said, "you cannot refer to admiral so-and-so (I forget his name) as a sailor". Turns out, in the same line of sight as the aforementioned sailor was a statue of a famous Russian admiral - who, I can assure you, I will never refer to as "Матрос".

I am speaking from the perspective of being married but not yet living together - the interview is next week. I don't believe it is all that different than a situation where any two people are merging their individual lifestyles. There has got to be give and take compromises in the set-up decisions. Given that I am the one whose house we are merging into it was extremely important for me to begin thinking in terms of "ours" instead of "mine" immediately. That is a key mental shift that has to be made early because it takes a little time. Once that happened I found myself open to the process of making the home something different than it has ever been and we began the process of creating that household together. It has been a great way for us to work on our relationship skills and the details of our marital arrangement while waiting for the immigration process. Sure beats droning, redundant versions of "I love you , I miss you". If your spouse or fiance is open to the idea and you can create a budget for such a "project" I can highly recommend it. We worked together on everything from interior remodeling details to handling finances, to indoor climate control preferences, to parenting techniques...etc. I would venture that in the 9 months we've been married and apart we've have accomplished more in terms of aligning our individual lives than I managed in the 14 years of my first marriage (I am only slightly embarrassed to say). That's not to say there won't be changes or revisions to decisions we've made but we feel great about the progress under the circumstances.

So what have I done to prepare? Here are some (in no particular order): get the electric teapot, remove clutter (AKA purge the basement and all storage areas), adopt the no shoes rule, stop using plastic cups, begin using separate cutting boards and knives for meat and vegetables, get rid of most of the antiques (the American definition is "antique", the Russian defintion is "used junk"), don't hang things on the walls (that will be something we decide together and I had way too much so I probably can't be trusted to make this choice alone). I won't get into the details of my "general contractor" duties but trust me when I say they were significant. The absolute most important preparation has been - consult, consult, consult. She wants to be involved in the details, no matter how small. By doing this one thing it has enabled her to play a huge part in shaping the environment that we can truly call "ours".

Thanks all for the quick responses. It sounds like a longshot that they will require these originals from me.

Turboguy - congratulations on your upcoming rendezvous. I hope to be in this circumstance very soon myself.

She is supposed to have an origional copy of your birth certificate and divorce decrees with her at the interview as well as hers. Most of the time they don't ask to see yours but they do have the right and have asked to have it there. If she does not have it and they ask at worst you will get a 221-G and have to supply it. Of course if it came to that you would probably never get it back but that is not a big deal.

So if a 221-G is issued do I send these documents Fed-ex directly to the embassy?

My wife is attending the interview at the embassy in Moscow next week for K3. She ran across some instructions on their website listed under "List of Documents for Fiancé (e) Visa Interview" which state:

-Original birth certificate, photocopy and translation into English

-Evidence of termination of prior marriage(s) (if applicable), original, photocopy and translation into English.

In both instances it is the word "original" which concerns us. If this is referring to the USC's documents as well as the interviewee then it seems we could have problems. Not sure why they would expect her to have my original birth certificate with her along with my original divorce decree. Of course she has copies of everything that was filed with forms I130 and I129F which includes copies and translations etc. of these documents.

Has anyone had any experience with interpreting these requirements that you can share?

"I'll pose the same question I posed to Kazan' Tiger. Isn't insurance similar to a prenup? And if you have health, life, property, and car insurance, aren't you introducing bad kharma into those things too? I surely hope my life and health is a lifetime commitment just as marriage. But I'd be a fool to not have insurance. Am I setting myself up to die or to get ill?"

For me, the analogy is faulty. Purchasing insurance is a business transaction exchanging money for risk transfer services with an effective and expiration date (certain types of life insurance notwithstanding). Fact is, with life and health, these things are destined to meet with the perils for which we insure them. In that case we insure them because we know we will suffer the loss as defined in the terms. It is a certainty. I am of the opinion that bad kharma only enters a business transaction when ethics or the principles of fairness are abandoned. I chose not to view marriage as a business transaction to be insured or as a risk to be transferred.

"I have never dealt with a marriage broker.Actually you have. Meet our very own Kazan' Tiger. Check out his services and catalog:

http://www.clubworldrelations.com/"

??? I have never conducted business with Kazan Tiger.

"There is a trap for a single person with significant assets to fall into and they assume that people are interested in their assets and not themself. They perceive themselves as highly susceptible to exploitation. This perception taints their relationships. It can actually increase their chances of falling victim to exploitation. It can even prevent them from entering into serious relationships at all. Their wealth becomes a curse rather than a blessing. In other words, if one isn't careful, wealth breeds an unhealthy paranoia.I like your reasoning, but do you think the "have nots " avoid divorce more than then the "haves"? As far as I understand the divorce rate is pretty standard across all groups in America."

My point was not to draw a contrast between the haves and have nots. I was trying to illustrate the risks associated with wealth and, in particular, one's perception of their own wealth as it relates to intimate relationships. And ultimately, I was trying to illustrate how in some circumstances the other signer of a pre-nup can ironically end up the victim of a marriage destined to fail due to insecurities on the part of their spouse who initially sought financial protection. You are probably correct in your conclusions about divorce rate and income groups.

(Sorry I don't know how to break these quotes up manully so I am using " " instead)

Considered pre-nup since I have significant assetts acquired outside the marriage. At some point in our discussions it became apparent to both of us that the idea of a pre-nup is simply bad kharma. It may also be good business. We decided against it as marriage is a lot more about kharma than business.

Will you please re-read your own post? (And read it aloud to the group?)

Marriage is a lot more about kharma than business????

Where? In Hollywood, maybe. Everywhere else, including the places where there is an entire industry devoted to "scamming" foreigners with "significant assets acquired" marriage has a lot more to do with business than kharma.

Sure, I'm like everyone else. I hate the idea of having to "protect" yourself and your assets from the person you're signing on to spend eternity with. However, in the real world, if things are going to go sour, and there's over a 50% chance they will, you're going to lose a "significant" chunk of your acquired assets if you don't have a pre-nup.

Slim,

My post reads precisely the way I meant it - no inaccuracies at all. Marriage is a lot more about kharma than business. It is divorce that is often more about business than kharma. Therein the paradox and the reason this thread sparks such interest and diversity of opinion. Further, if you enter into an arrangement which by definition is a lifetime commitment by hedging that commitment with a safe out then you are introducing bad kharma into the arrangement. Perhaps it is the word "kharma" which is causing the controversy - substitute positive attitude, vibe, faith, or whatever analogous term you are most comfortable with to make the comparison. Either way, I am trying to describe the emotional energy which we all need to contribute to foster love, long term commitment, trust and mutual respect in a successful marital relationship. Business on the other hand is all about creating an arrangement whereby your efforts result in a material or monetary outcome in your favor. Clearly, a person's shift to the latter objective can result if the relationship becomes devoid of love, long term commitment, trust and mutual respect.

On the other hand, it sounds like in your post you were descibing the exploitation of the institution of marriage for profit rather than marriage itself. If that is the case and a person suspects that they may indeed fall victim to that exploitation then a pre-nup would offer some business protection. I am interpreting your reference to "Hollywood" as meaning that you believe that purely amorous marital arrangements are a rarity in "the real world". Perhaps there is a narrower definition of "the real world" in this forum or in your opinion as a result of the demographic. I have never dealt with a marriage broker (I assume that is the industry you are referring to) nor entered into a serious relationship on the basis of a business arrangement. And I must admit my ignorance of the percentage of visa journeys involved in the various categories of relationship beginnings. I also do not intend to cast dispersion towards those on the forum who have used a marriage broker to find a mate nor do I infer that that they are blindly entering into marriages devoid of mutual love. I simply don't know much about it. However, I would put to you that there are indeed many relationships in the real world which are predicated on love, long term commitment, trust and mutual respect and are not in any way a distortion or exploitation of the institution of marriage.

As for the alarming divorce rates I share your concerns. However, I happen to believe that one of the root causes is the increasing impermanence with which marriage is viewed. In other words I believe it is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. When we begin a lifelong commitment with visions of it failing you increase the probability of it failing. A person makes many many choices in a marriage which contribute or detract from the level of commitment and spirit of cooperation. Harboring a vision of failure weakens the couple's resolve to keep working at it. Even if that effect is slight its presence will ultimately increase the probability of divorce.

Lastly, I sense that you are drawing a contrast between those with "nothing to lose" and those with "significant assets". As you have placed yourself in the former group and I in the latter, allow me to comment on the latter. There is a trap for a single person with significant assets to fall into and they assume that people are interested in their assets and not themself. They perceive themselves as highly susceptible to exploitation. This perception taints their relationships. It can actually increase their chances of falling victim to exploitation. It can even prevent them from entering into serious relationships at all. Their wealth becomes a curse rather than a blessing. In other words, if one isn't careful, wealth breeds an unhealthy paranoia. I am not saying that everyone who choses a pre-nup has an unhealthy paranoia. What I am saying is that it can be the case. In those cases, the person is actually protecting themself from themself and quite possibly victimizing their spouse in the process.

Best of luck,

Chris

Me...married 14 years, two kids, divorced. No pre-nup, more liabilities than assetts, didn't matter. Raised two kids, accumulated assetts, kids grown, now remarried. Considered pre-nup since I have significant assetts acquired outside the marriage. At some point in our discussions it became apparent to both of us that the idea of a pre-nup is simply bad kharma. It may also be good business. We decided against it as marriage is a lot more about kharma than business.

Chris

Does anyone know if USCIS physically uses the approved I-130 petition during the Adjustment of Status process? Do they pull the file from the National Records Center in Missouri? The reason for my question is that my approved I-130s are scattered to the wind. One went to NVC another is in transit between USCIS locations. Does USCIS have to corral them before they begin the AOS adjudication process?

Does anyone know if USCIS physically uses the approved I-130 petition during the Adjustment of Status process? Do they pull the file from the National Records Center in Missouri? The reason for my question is that my approved I-130s are scattered to the wind. One went to NVC another is in transit between USCIS locations. Does USCIS have to corale them before they begin the AOS adjudication process?

Thanks for the stern warning against the AOS garbage.

I'm sort of ruling that line out, but NOT ruling out K3, with return trip to get CR-1.

Is there a strong argument against it? Of course you have to pay for a trip, but the wife gets a visit home. (besides delay of getting SSN)...

If less than 2 years still a "little wacko" doing a K3 instead of CR-1 the way things are now.

Different when I did the K3 as CRs took a LOT longer to process at that time.

I still wish we'd waited and just did a CR-1 instead of the K3.

We went thru hell adjusting status plus cost us a LOT more money.

I would just add that the CR-1 route isn't free just because you have an approved I-130. So to be fair (from a purely financial perspective) you have to compare the $1,010 to the cost of consular processing a CR-1 after K-3. My estimate is as follows: An I-824 to move the pended I-130 to NVC costs $340. You will receive additional bills from the Department of State for $335 for DS-230, Immigrant visa security surcharge $45, and I-864 (domestically processed affidavit of support) $70. That totals $790 PLUS the ticket back to Indonesia for the embassy interview. My guess is that trip will exceed $220, thus the AOS is the less expensive of the two options. Of course, following the I-130 all the way through with no K3 is the least expensive of all the options. So in the end, you have to ask yourself what do you believe the timeline difference to be relative to your separation and what is that worth to your family. Then factor in the bereaucratic hassles involved with each of the options and voila, you have yourself a decision. Sounds so simple

Two different options. If you get a K3 visa and adjust status once your spouse is stateside results in a Green Card (spouse is already here and does not need a CR-1 visa).

There is another option, if you want to pursue a CR-1 visa even after bringing your spouse on a K3, then the spouse has to return to the home country for an interview and must re-enter the US. You also have to file an I824 to get the I130 moving again for consular processing.

Now I am a bit confused...I understood CR-1 to be a visa type which means "Permanent Resident with Conditions" - the Green Card issued to a foreign spouse married for less than 3 years. Your response seems to make an exclusive distinction between a CR-1 and a green card and I don't believe that is the case. The Green Card is a form of documentation. Everyone who is not a citizen still needs a visa regardless. Permanent Resident visas come in multiple forms of which "with Conditions" is one. Is there disagreement on this?

No fee for filing the I-129F for K-3 on top of a previously filed I-130 Immigrant Petition for the same beneficiary per the new fee schedule (that is a change). Expect to shave on average about 3 months off the timeline for CR-1 by going for a K-3. Note that this means 3 months off the separation time. It adds an average 4 to 6 months time on obtaining the CR-1 (through the adjustment of status process once your spous in stateside). These are averages and the variables are many - consulate, processing center, NVC caseloads, individual circumstances vs. documentation requirements, etc. and most of all random luck if one believes in such things. You can derive some pretty specific averages based on your circumstances using the data on in the timelines section of this site. There is some difference in the total fees (k-3 with AOS being a little higher) depending on your choice as well. Money aside, it is generally a question of priorities based on your specific circumstances. For example, things like obtaining work authorization and SSN are dependent on CR-1 status so if they are priorities for you and your spouse that may take precedence over limiting family separation time.

Settling in for the long haul is a good strategy either way you go. I do recommend you sketch out an anticipated timeline of events along the way however, since things do go awry in this process and sometimes require your intervention to straighten them out. That aside, stress limiting strategies are key to making the most of your time apart. Good luck on your journey!

Awesome news Milena! Congratulations and best of luck in the rest of your journey.

Congratulations and thanks for the tip on medical.

Thanks for all the kind wishes. Yes, the attitude really changes at this point. With a definite timeline it all of a sudden doesn't look like enough time - pretty ironic. My wife and step-son have paperwork to complete, at least one (maybe two) trips to Moscow to plan and all the activity that goes with closing out life on one side of the world and preparing to transport it to the other. On this end, I have a pile of not so small projects around the house to finish up before they get here. It isn't that all this has laid stagnant for 8 months. We have worked ahead insomuch as we could. But when you see there is only 2 to 3 months left to finish up it creates a completely different dynamic in your life than the indefinite wait. It's all good and it all leads to a great beginning.

I would be interested in hearing about people's first month together after the long wait to re-unite (if you went that route). What do you remember most about it? What was the best experience? What surprised you? What was difficult and how did you overcome it?