jamie916

My fiancé, who is an Indian citizen, received this document in the mail yesterday from/on the behalf of his ex-wife in Germany. Although I explained it to the best of my ability, he (and I) would like some further input/knowledge as soon as possible from anyone who lives in Germany or is familiar with the German law regarding what this document is saying, exactly, in its entirety/what steps he needs to take next according to it.

Any and all information is VERY much appreciated. Thank you, anyone and everyone, in advance!

We met online and for the first time in Thailand instead of Kashmir/India simply because we had more freedom there. (It's not fun being a Kashmiri outside of Kashmir with as much conflict as they have with the Indian government!) He was denied based on doubt and doubt alone--no reason, in particular.  They provided all required documents, followed all the steps... Embassies are just "deny-happy," from what I've heard. I have talked to a couple lawyers, actually, and would/will definitely have one involved every step of the way if/when the time comes.

Thank you for your responses. We spent ten days together in Thailand. He was denied three times total in Europe: Once for the German visitor/tourist visa before they were married, the second time for the German spousal visa after getting married, and then he was denied the visitor/tourist visa in Poland before being approved and living there for a month (to prove to Europe that he could/would use it responsibly). They were in the process of fighting for the spousal visa in court when she cheated on him, leading to the downfall of their relationship.

Today marks the day I met my fiancé online one year ago. He is from Kashmir, has been married to and since divorced a woman in Germany (they married in India and she had an affair before his visa could be approved; it was denied twice and they were fighting it in court), and we have met once in Thailand. During the visa process with the German Embassy, investigators came to his village and questioned his neighbors who spread rumors that he had converted to Christianity, creating problems for him. Because of these reasons, he is terrified of taking the risk of going through the process again and doesn't want to tell his family.

A friend of mine who runs an online group for women dating/engaged/married to Indian men tells me, "I dunno. I think it's typical these guys are scared at first, but after a year he needs to step it up and grow some balls. The embassy will not come to his house, but the police clearance people will. They're local and only check for address. He needs to tell his mom... you need to get married in India. There really is no other way without it looking suspicious, red flags..  denial"

We have talked about getting married abroad, in another country, which I thought was feasible because I have had even lawyers tell me that it's a good option, but my friend (quoted above) has very firsthand experience. He tells me there is "no way" that can happen--marrying in India, having investigators show up and question his family and neighbors again, making a "bad name for himself" by repeating what he did before, etc...

Is it, in fact, true that they will only approve those who have married in India? Is it not possible to marry in another country? Does he have to tell his family for visa approval? Is this the only way? Any advice and insight will be much appreciated...

Thank you, KierenHby

For those of you who have had experience with the US Embassy in India (New Delhi, specifically):

Do consulate officers visit the homes/neighbors of the Indian citizen as part of the interview/investigation process? If so, in what circumstances, if any? Does anyone have any experience with this? Very important that I find out more about the chances of this happening...

(See previous post for more information as to why I am asking)

Thanks ✌️️

Also, I have since spoken to an immigration attorney from a very reputable law office (Maney Gordon, referred to me by the woman mentioned above, fighting the same battle with husband in India), and the attorney told me that his past denials should/will not have any barrier on his future application here in the US. She says they may ask about it during the interview process, but that each application is unique unto itself.

Transborderwife and afortunada,

I did some research and you are wrong:

http://www.***removed***/visitor-visa/can-usa-visitors-visa-be-sponsored.html

Thank you so much for your feedback, Randy ☺️

Thank you for your information; I do appreciate it. I used to think the same of him (the whole Eastern man out to get Western woman thing), but have put him through many "tests" (which I won't go into now) these past six months to seek out who he truly is. And every time I've doubted him, he's proven me wrong in some way or another. I've read of many "horror stories" about these things before--even in relation to Kashmiri men specifically--and trust me: It is scary to think that they happen; I don't know what I would do if it happened to me. But despite my being of a "lower education level," I am not stupid and am taking every step possible to ensure that I don't fall into "that category." I am always investigating. Lol. So unless I find some good, hard evidence against him, I'll keep fighting...

He did need a visa for Thailand, actually...

OK. Thank you so much. Have you read my first post? Maybe you can give me some feedback on that as well (K1 or CR1)...

Right... Okay...

But for the K1 or CR1 visa it's different, right? I mean, I know I can sponsor him then... But will the process prove to be more difficult then, because he doesn't currently have a job? (Silly question, as I know anyone looks better with money; he will be getting his business license soon, at least, which is good...)

Denied for German marriage visa, will be applying for either K1 or CR1 with me in US

I cannot what? Sponsor him? Why will he be "hard pressed"? Because of the denials or where he lives?

No job at the moment, as he has struggled since his his ex's affair/separation (he gave up everything for her) and is living in the conflicted Kashmir. I will have to sponsor him.

He was also denied a marriage visa the first two times he applied through the German Embassy with his ex (she then cheated on him and they never completed the appeal/attended the final meeting with the Embassy). Will they look into this for his tourist (or any other) visa? If so, will that impact their decision? (He was also denied but then appealed/approved for a tourist visa in Poland in the process of waiting for the decision from the German Embassy, to prove that he could stay in Europe without abusing the terms, which is good).

Also, what kind of ties to India does he have to prove/what do you mean?

So what to do if he DOES get denied for the B2? Appeal it? Wait until we apply for the K1/CR1 (and wouldn't that look bad not to appeal)? Is appealing/getting approved a simple process? What are the potential reasons for denial?

I've heard (from a woman with much experience with India/the visa process) that it is difficult to get an Indian citizen here with even something as simple as a visitor/tourist visa...

Does anyone have any experience with/information about this? I'm hoping to arrange for my fiancé to come visit (not to marry; don't worry ?), as I will be attending school for the next nine months beginning in January, but I don't want to risk him being denied the B2, then having it effect our K1/CR1 visa in the future...?

Thank you so much, to everyone who has helped me with answers to my many questions. I genuinely appreciate each and every one of you for your time. ❤️

This is beginning to seem nearly impossible, with him being from Kashmir... BUT there is love there. And love never fails. Love can conquer all mountains. So who the HELL has any right to try and stop anyone?? ???

I will not give up on my love...??

This is beginning to seem nearly impossible, with him being from Kashmir... BUT there is love there. And love never fails. Love can conquer all mountains. So who the HELL has any right to try and stop anyone?? ???

I will not give up on my love...??

Yes, it is supposed to be in the pretense of love, which is the most frustrating and upsetting aspect of this whole thing. We get so upset about the fact that, as two mature adults, we still cannot make our own decisions about who we choose to love and what we want to do with our lives without answering to someone (the Embassy) who wants all of this proof and validation from others (family, neighbors, etc.) What if our families or cultures DIDN'T approve? Does that then mean that we should not continue following our own hearts and desires but should instead bow down to everyone else's wishes and beliefs and end what we have worked so hard for?? Why not keep us under our parents' thumb then, as adults just as we were as children? It's ridiculous...

In regards to the comments about not having spent enough time together on video chat: We have spent HOURS, which adds up to DAYS, on video chat since we started talking in mid-June! How much more time do you need to spend with someone for them to consider it "bonafide"? He has met my family on Skype/FaceTime and talks my mom and son pretty regularly. We talk every morning and every night; there hasn't been a day that's passed that we haven't. Obviously I won't be applying at all until his divorce is final and I have proof of that, so we will have that much more time to "spend" together... Shouldn't that suffice when it comes to this requirement?

About the US Embassy investigation: I don't know what problems could occur for him if we were to marry in India, exactly, as I am not in his shoes; I can't imagine what it's like to live in such a conflicted area. But I want to ensure his and his family's safety however possible, and with the Indian law being the way it is (I read that you must notify them of your intent to marry if marrying there in India), it seems that marrying in another country may be a good way to avoid the risk involved in our wedding being published in the local paper or word getting around about his choice to marry yet another Westerner and facing the same accusations as before. He then wouldn't even be required to register our marriage in India, avoiding any potential problems that could occur from it.

Who knows? Maybe he would still end up facing problems when it comes to the investigation process, even with the marriage visa... What I do know is that he shouldn't have to live in fear of something happening because the decisions he chooses to make differ from the views of those around him--no one should. Because of his situation, I've even talked to him about the possibility of getting him over here as a refugee somehow; after all, he was staying away from home the last several months to avoid the conflict there, making him technically an asylee there. But I'm not sure what our chances would be for that either...

It says I can only make 1 more post here until Dec 20 @1:55 AM... Is there any way around the designated 10 posts they give you here?? If not, I apologize for any delayed responses and will reply via personal message or as soon as I am allowed to post again later tonight! Thank you to everyone for all of your help! This is so complex...?

You guys are awesome! ?

Compilation of posts from K1 forum:

I (a US citizen) am engaged to my fiancé in India (we've been together 6 months now; just came back from finally meeting for the first time in Thailand) and we are trying to figure out which route has the best chances of approval for getting him here.

I contacted and made friends with a woman who runs a blog and Facebook group for Western women engaged/married to Indian men. She is married to one herself and has been fighting to get him here for FOUR YEARS now. After starting with/applying for the K1/fiancé visa, she has warned me not to apply for it like she did, but to get married abroad and go straight for the marriage visa instead. She says that I/we will surely be denied if we go for the fiancé visa (especially because he's a Muslim from Kashmir), as the Indian government (even though going through the US Embassy) is very unique and rarely approve Indian citizens marrying outside of their culture; she says they will surely try to prevent that from happening and deny us.

Is anyone familiar with this, as it pertains to US/India marriages specifically? Is it really that difficult to get a K1 visa approved? Because I've talked to an immigration lawyer and have read elsewhere that the process is/should be rather easy... Does it differ depending on the country?

It's a little complicated... Problems arose in his village in Kashmir during the investigation by the German Embassy when he and his ex-wife were filing for the German marriage visa for him. They had a Muslim marriage in India in which she converted to Islam. But when the Embassy left a neighbor's house after questioning/validation, that neighbor decided to spread rumors in his village that Ashiq had, in fact, been the one to convert, to Christianity, causing conflict for him with the locals in his Muslim state--conflict that could, potentially, put him and/or his family in danger. He was denied twice by the German Embassy, simply on the basis of doubt. Then, after fighting/appealing it in court, she cheated on him just before their final meeting with the Embassy, in which the visa was finally going to be approved. This has, in turn, complicated OUR process, as he is afraid something like this (false religious accusations) could happen again and put his family in danger (Kashmir is...well...unique...)

He says his parents and family would accept me with open arms, as they did his ex, but because of the accusations against him there in the past and the fact that his family has never traveled outside of Kashmir, my meeting them in person will prove to be difficult (I still haven't even met them on Skype, as Ashiq has stayed away from Kashmir these last few months to escape the recent conflict, up until just a few days ago.

I was raised Christian and, although I am open to Islam and have researched the Quran and its teachings, he knows I am not ready or willing to convert. I've asked him about how we would/will raise our children if/when we have them, if I don't convert, and he told me (and I agreed) that we will teach them what is common between Muslims and Christians, and let them choose for themselves. He is seven years younger than I (he lied about his age at first, the brat!). I am a high school graduate with some college; he has his 10th grade standard. He is going to sign for/finalize his divorce in February when he goes back to Delhi, which he claims will be simple, as it was a Muslim wedding that took place in India and is under Sharia Law (he has rights in Islam because of her affair, which he also has proof of, and because their marriage never became valid in Germany due to his initial visa denials and voiding/withdrawing their application for it). My divorce was finalized in 2014.

There is SO much involved...it's mind-boggling. But... you know how far love can take you! Lol

*The denials he received from the German Embassy had nothing to do with the investigation and accusations about his religion. Unrelated. That was a problem that arose only with the locals in his village in Kashmir...but is STILL his main concern, as converting can have dire consequences there.

*I've heard how important pictures of me with his family/him with mine can be, and wonder how this could potentially effect the process. What about a notarized letter of acceptance from the parents? And do you think he would have to worry about the same thing happening in his village during the investigation process with the US Embassy? Do they dig that deep, as the German Embassy did?? I'm trying to reassure him, but he has been through it, I haven't, and he is a bit traumatized, to say the least...

I/we have thought about the idea of marrying in another country, as he says marrying there in India again would be a bad idea for him... Any thoughts? Thank you SO much for your help...??

He says that under Sharia Law in India (and he has spoken to his lawyer about this), all he has to do is sign a document stating that he divorces her stating the reason (her affair), and that's it. It can then be stamped by the Indian government as proof of divorce (marriage papers were signed only by/through external affairs). He got back to Kashmir literally just a few days ago, and will be telling them about me soon. (Introducing a "girlfriend" early on is not seen in his culture; it takes time to get to know someone well enough to trust introduce them to your parents who have lived in a village with those cultural values for so long!) They accepted his ex enough that she and her son moved and lived there in India with him for awhile, so... But I will definitely have met them (on Skype) prior to applying for ANY visa.

I've heard (per my "friend's" knowledge and experience with the visa process as it pertains to India specifically) that even getting an Indian here on a tourist/visitor visa is a challenge... I don't know... It's just what she's told me has been her and "400+ other members" experience with the fiancé visa. Maybe India is as different and difficult as she says...

I've heard (per my "friend's" knowledge and experience with the visa process as it pertains to India specifically) that even getting an Indian here on a tourist/visitor visa is a challenge... I don't know... It's just what she's told me has been her and "400+ other members" experience with the fiancé visa. Maybe India is as different and difficult as she says...

Hi Zoe. Thank you so much for replying. He says that under Sharia Law in India (and he has spoken to his lawyer about this), all he has to do is sign a document stating that he divorces her stating the reason (her affair), and that's it. It can then be stamped by the Indian government as proof of divorce (marriage papers were signed only by/through external affairs). He got back to Kashmir literally just a few days ago, and will be telling them about me soon. (Introducing a "girlfriend" early on is not seen in his culture; it takes time to get to know someone well enough to trust introduce them to your parents who have lived in a village with those cultural values for so long!) They accepted his ex enough that she and her son moved and lived there in India with him for awhile, so... But I will definitely have met them (on Skype) prior to applying for ANY visa.