Rob and Melinda

Friday, March 30, 2007

Praise before Victory

And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

Praise is greatly honoring to God! In the Old Testament account of King Jehoshaphat, God’s people faced a seemingly insurmountable enemy who was determined to destroy them. Yet God assured them that they would “stand still and see the salvation of the Lord”.

The people of Judah believed God. Their army was led by singers, offering praises to the Lord for their promised victory, and the victory came. When King David led the procession bringing the ark of the covenant into Jerusalem, he praised God with all of his strength. David’s praise was pleasing to God, and God’s powerful presence remained in David’s kingdom to give him victory against every enemy.

Jesus was about to go to Gethsemane and to the cross, where God’s greatest victory would be accomplished. He led His disciples to sing a hymn. The disciples were all about to fail Him, and Jesus was about to be cruelly executed, yet Jesus insisted that they praise God. Their praise looked beyond the cross to God’s ultimate victory. Praise is rooted not in circumstances of the moment but in the nature and trustworthiness of God.

You ought to rejoice when God asks you to proceed in the work of His kingdom because you know the victory is already secured. Don’t focus on the problems and failures of others. Focus on God’s assurance of victory. If you have trouble praising God with a song in your heart as you serve Him, it may be that your focus is not on God, but on your circumstances.

Henry and Richard Blackaby

Praying that your day is an awesome day filled with a knowledge of how greatly you are loved and the great depths that God has gone to show you that love.

Rob

Thursday, March 29, 2007

Tested Yet Secure

And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren." (Luke 22:31-32)

Jesus dearly loved Peter. Jesus spoke to him specifically and said, “Simon! Simon! Satan has made a request to sift all of you (plural) as wheat. But I have prayed for you (singular), that your faith will not fail. And when you (singular) have returned to Me, strengthen your brothers.” Even as Jesus faced His imminent arrest and crucifixion, He took time to strengthen Peter for what was to come! He assured him that God had set limits on Satan’s influence. He expressed His confidence that even though Peter’s faith would falter, he would overcome, to the point of strengthening others. Since Jesus Himself was interceding for Peter, Peter might fail for a moment, but his life would ultimately be victorious.

Jesus is fully aware of every temptation and test you_will encounter, and He stands ready to deliver you_(1 Cor. 10:13). He intercedes for you just as He did for Peter (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25). Temptation might catch you by surprise, but Jesus is already interceding with the Father on your behalf. Remember that temptation is not a sin. When you are tempted, turn immediately to Jesus. He will take you to the Father, and you will overcome the temptation, for Jesus has overcome everything you can face in the world (1 John 4:4). When you are tested and are secure in the intercession of Jesus, you, too, will be able to strengthen others. If you are

grappling with temptation, Jesus is interced-ing for you with the Father even now. Be steadfast and_encouraged!

By Henry and Richar Blackaby

Pray that you know how greatly you are loved today!

Rob

Better than that, We wish you Faith! Our prayer are with you!

Rob and Melinda

Wow, awesome news, congratulations!

That is a difficult day at the interview but I am sure you will be awesome!

Rob and Melinda

Congratulations and best Prayers for the rest of your journey.

Rob and Melinda

Congratulations on the approval of your visa, the best in life is just ahead.

Rob and Melinda

This is a tough subject because the legitimae suffer because of the illigitimate.

In the Philippines as I understand it, they have one of the highest rate of immigration fraud of all countries. This is because these people suffer so much there. I cannot blame them at all for wanting to get a new life in the US. Melinda is absolutely amazed at the opportunites she has seen here so far.

They made it very hard for us, but thank the Lord we were still able to get her a visa and be together. I think we really appreciate each other more now for what we went through.

I have no idea why any of what I said makes any difference, but nuff said.

Rob

During the Visa process, it was our faith in Jesus Christ that sustained us through all those days of doubts, fears and difficulties.

This poll is for believers in Jesus Christ to see if the would like to see a daily post here of encouragement from the Bible to help you with your day and/or the visa, AOS, and other immigration issues.

If you are not a believer in Jesus Christ, there is a place in this pole for you to express your opinion also.

The following is an example of what I will post ONE TIME each day:

It is from the Henry and Richard Blackaby's daily devotional series.

Wednesday, March 28, 2007

"But the Scriptures must be fulfilled." Then they all forsook Him and fled. (Mark 14:49b-50)

There are times when, in the darkest moments of your life, the only comfort left for you is a word from God. Jesus faced the cruel injustice of a hostile world, but perhaps His deepest pain came when His closest friends deserted and betrayed Him. What could possibly sustain Him at such a dark moment? Jesus found His comfort in the Scriptures (Matt. 26:20–25, 31). The Scriptures kept everything in perspective for the Savior, holding Him steadfast in the knowledge that everything He was experiencing was according to His Father’s plan. Jesus could proceed with confidence because the Scriptures assured Him that the Father was in control.

The word of God will guide you in the same way. There will be times when events around you will confuse you. Those in whom you’ve placed your trust will fail you. Others will abandon you. You will be misunderstood and criticized. In these times of distress, when your devotion and obedience are put to the greatest test, you must let Scripture guide and comfort you. Never let the faithlessness of others determine what you do. Turn to the Scriptures and allow them to reorient you to God and_His activity.

Even as a young boy, Jesus was already well acquainted with the Scriptures. He was never surprised by events; He lived with confidence because the Scriptures had prepared Him for everything that He would face.

If you will immerse yourself daily in the word of God, you will not be caught off guard when crises come. Your focus will already be on God, and He will safely guide you through your difficult moments.

By Henry and Richard Blackaby

Hope you are encouraged today!

Rob

Nope. It doesn't prove the Bible. Same thing with 1+1=2. It applies everywhere. Does that prove the Bible?

Asymmetry doesn't prove the bible.

You don't rerally know what Chirality is then. It is absolutely conclusive and endorsed by the best scientific minds in the world. It is the One thing that all evolutionists cannot refute because it is so compelling,.

Rob

You have to be kidding me. This is non-sense. Show me where chiralty is used to prove the Bible then? Who is this scientific mind? Anthropologists? They are not really scientists, more like historians.

I am sorry that you dont' know that Chhirality is incontrovertible evidence for creation. Tell me what Chirality is then, explain the process...

Rob

Rob, why do most Christians the world over believe in the resurrection based on faith? Are you the only one that considers it true based on fact? If so, how did you come to this conclusion alone and if you have found real historical proof then why have you not shared it, and why are you so reluctant to share it, with the rest of the Christian community?

No I am not the only one.

I belong to to one of the fastest growing churches in the world that began with the Jesus People in the 60's and we teach this to all of our members, as does most of the solid Bible believing churches around the world. The church I belong to has more than 32,000 people a week that attend services. We are a Teaching ministry.

Disclaimer, this is not an endorsement to join my church or any church, join Jesus!

Our "Faith" is based upon FACTS. God doesnt ask you to take your brain out when you become a Christian. He gave us the solid historical evidence So that you would know for sure.

Rob

Nope. It doesn't prove the Bible. Same thing with 1+1=2. It applies everywhere. Does that prove the Bible?

Asymmetry doesn't prove the bible.

You don't rerally know what Chirality is then. It is absolutely conclusive and endorsed by the best scientific minds in the world. It is the One thing that all evolutionists cannot refute because it is so compelling,.

Rob

But Rob, you've already said that there are people who have done the research and they've concluded that it didn't happen. Then you say that they concluded that because they hate Jesus or do not want to accept the truth.

So if someone here were to tell you that they've done 31 years of research and do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead, you would dismiss them anyway.

Quite a convenient way to never have to make a reasoned argument.

No I don't believe that I said that. I said that people have done the research on THE RESURRECTION and come to the conclusion that it did happen, It is possible that I typed didn't instead of did...So hope that clarify's that for you.

Or are you talking about non believers who write books about the so called contradictions in the bible, "SO CALLED". These were all debunked by Bible schollars many times.

Rob

Sorry, you're right. I see you did say that they *did* conclude it happened but rejected him anyway. Well, that makes me even more confused then. Are you really saying that anyone who does enough research is guaranteed to conclude that the resurrection is an historical fact? That's just absolutely not true.

Yeah it absolutely is true, HAVE SOME FUN AND DO IT YOURSELF...You will be blown away!

Rob

One more thing I would like to add to my prior post. Anthropology uses methods of science to discover the past, however, they cannot prove science itself. Hence, the bible cannot be used to prove science. Thus far, creationism have conflicted with evolution. Science have shown proof that mountain ranges have deposits of sea dwelling organisms in their soil, and this occurs after million years of change. If in the case of the creationism, derived from the bible, that mountain region was already there in place for humans.

Now, nobody can prove that. Sure, the book of Genesis mentions that the Earth was created in a few days, then there was a 'blank' time in between Genesis and the existence of humans; however, there's no proof of existence of GOD nor is there proof that science can prove that. It's at a stand still. Now, some would dispute what I've said because I have no knowledge of the Bible, but you should believe in yourself and your own heaven instead of having somebody do the thinking for you such as instilling their strong beliefs unto others.

Really, are you familiar with the science of "Chirality", The scientific work on the role of molecular asymmetry in both biologically active and non-biologically active molecules cause.....it proves the Bible.

Rob

But Rob, you've already said that there are people who have done the research and they've concluded that it didn't happen. Then you say that they concluded that because they hate Jesus or do not want to accept the truth.

So if someone here were to tell you that they've done 31 years of research and do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead, you would dismiss them anyway.

Quite a convenient way to never have to make a reasoned argument.

No I don't believe that I said that. I said that people have done the research on THE RESURRECTION and come to the conclusion that it did happen, It is possible that I typed didn't instead of did...So hope that clarify's that for you.

Or are you talking about non believers who write books about the so called contradictions in the bible, "SO CALLED". These were all debunked by Bible schollars many times.

Rob

I challenge you to try and dissprove the resurrection of Jesus Christ...everyone who has taken up that challenge came away with two conclusions.

1. Jesus did rise from the dead on the third day as the Bible says, and they commited their lives to Him.

2. Jesus did rise from the dead on the third day as the Bible says, and they rejected Him anyway.

Here's my problem with that - you said early on something along the lines about the resurrection being the most historically verified event in human history. That is a specific claim. Specific claims can be backed up with specific evidence to prove the point. If you're making a specific point like that, its logical to assume that you have that specific reasoning and evidence to hand to back it up. Otherwise its going to raise eyebrows. Naturally.

So far - your only defense for that claim is to fall back on the bible, which of course is going to say that the resurrection took place. The claim that the event itself is the most historically verified event in history implies (at least to some degree) more than one source. So far I've not seen those - but then again I have no real desire to prove or disprove the event anyway. To each his own.

Truth does not have to be proven if it is a matter of the historical record. It is there for you to discover yourself. I take it that you have never personally done any of your own reseasrch on the authenticity of the Resurrection. You let other people think for you without verifying it.

I have been challenging everyone on this forum to think for yourself and do your own research, DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, THINK FOR YOURSELF, FIND OUT YOURSELF... but all I get accused of is thinking for you. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I on the other hand, I have challenged YOU to do something with your claim that it didn't happen, find out for yourself.

Some of the greatest minds the world has ever known have rersearched the Resurrection of Jesus Chirst and come away with the same conclusion: the resurrection of Jesus did happen from the historical record, Exactly as the New Testament describes it.

Another case in point, the New Testament is now Viewed as the Most accurate Historical document ever written. Through Archeological discovery, Science, Mathematics and the shear number of the original manuscripts that we have, make it the most accurate document evern written.

When people write here in this forum that there are contradictions in the New Testament, that is amazing to me, because all of those so called contradictions were debunked by Schollars many years ago.

People write that stuff here as if it is true, when they have never read the other side of the story by the schollars that have debunk those claims of contradictions many, many times

Rob

No. The bible is not science. I know because I'm an Engineer. If I relied on the bible, then your life as well as everyone else here would probably suffered major consequences from my errors.

Engineers' Ethic Code:

You must never jeopardize the safety of the public.

Are you also an expert on the Bible? or have you been taught what the bible says is myth, fantasy or heresay?

I challenge you to try and dissprove the resurrection of Jesus Christ...everyone who has taken up that challenge came away with two conclusions.

1. Jesus did rise from the dead on the third day as the Bible says, and they commited their lives to Him.

2. Jesus did rise from the dead on the third day as the Bible says, and they rejected Him anyway.

Rob

Well gee there are so many contradictions about the crucifixion and resurrection I don’t know how anyone could prove or disprove it.

From the 101 contradictions in the bible: http://www.kronosofia.dk/frames/side/biblioteket/101.html

49.Did Jesus bear his own cross?

(a) Yes (John 19:17)

(B) No (Matthew 27:31-32)

50.Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn?

(a) Yes (Matthew27: 50-5 1;MarklS: 37-38)

(B) No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

52.Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?

(a) On the cross (Mark 15:23)

(B) In Pilate’s court (John 19:14)

53.The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?

(a) Yes (Mark 15:32)

(B) No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)

54.Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?

(a) Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, "Today you will be with me in Paradise"(Luke 23:43)

(B) No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, "I have not yet ascended to the Father" (John 20:17)

65.What was the exact wording on the cross?

(a) “This is Jesus the King of the Jews� (Matthew 27:37)

(B) “The King of the Jews� (Mark 15:26)

© “This is the King of the Jewsâ€? (Luke 23:38)

(d) “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews� (John 19:19)

69.Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?

(a) After (Mark 14:12-17)

(B) Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilate’s judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)

73.What did the centurion say when Jesus dies?

(a) “Certainly this man was innocent� (Luke 23:47)

(B) “Truly this man was the Son of God� (Mark 15:39)

74.When Jesus said “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken Me? � in what language did he speak?

(a) Hebrew: the words are “Eloi, Eloi…“(Matthew 27:46)

(B) Aramaic: the words are “Eloi, Eloi... “(Mark 15:34)

75.According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died?

(a) “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!� (Luke 23:46)

(B) "It is finished" (John 19:30).

81.Was Jesus’ body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs?

(a) Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40)

(B) No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices “so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus)� (Mark 16: 1)

82.When did the women buy the spices?

(a) After “the Sabbath was past� (Mark 16:1)

(B) Before the Sabbath. The women “prepared spices and ointments.� Then, “on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment� (Luke 23:55 to 24:1)

83.At what time of day did the women visit the tomb?

(a) “Toward the dawn� (Matthew 28: 1)

(B) “When the sun had risen� (Mark 16:2)

84.What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb?

(a) To anoint Jesus’ body with spices (Mark 16: 1; Luke 23:55 to 24: 1)

(B) To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28: 1)

© For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the Sabbath (John 20: 1)

85.A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived? (a) They saw that the stone was “Rolled back� (Mark 16:4) They found the stone “rolled away from the tomb� (Luke 24:2) They saw that “the stone had been taken away from the tomb� (John 20:1)

(B) As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)

86.Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus’ body?

(a) Yes. “A young man in a white robe� (Mark 16:5). “Two men ... in dazzling apparel� later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote)

(B) No. Mary met no one and returned saying, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him� (John 20:2)

87.When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?

(a) Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)

(B) On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus’ body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him “Teacher.â€? Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me...â€? (John 20:11 to 17)

98.How many disciples did Jesus appear to after his resurrection?

(a) Twelve (I Corinthians 15:5)

(B) Eleven (Matthew 27:3-5 and Acts 1:9-26, see also Matthew 28:16; Mark 16:14 footnote; Luke 24:9; Luke 24:3 3)

btw i have no idea how to get rid of those sunglass smiley dudes....the smiley should be a "( B )", not a cool smiley.

There have been numerous books published by non believers that suppose there are contradictions in the Bible. Every one of those supposed contradictions have been disqualified as error by Bible schollars many, many times. I have those books in my library and I have looked at all of the so called contradictions and they are a Joke, not one onf them has any credibility.

Rob

Check all that apply!

*mawilson puts on asbestos underwear, flameproof suit and hood*

I think that you are a good guy with some firm convitions and I enjoy the exchange of ideas with you...

I checked "mawilson is a nice person..."

Rob, The Jesus Freak

Nope. Eventhough, I'm not educated in the bible I do know that if I rely on god to control your life. You would die already.

Constructing and controlling power systems, etc...cannot be based on faith. And, the I've read a few pages of the bible and I find it disturbing that people follows these things that's been translated by a King.

I will never accept the bible as fact because everyone would probably die.

So what you are saying is that you have disscounted the Bible and the ressurection of Jesus Christ without ever doing a serious search yourself. You have based your whole eternal life on the teaching of people who dont believe the Bible either.

If you want a real challenge, take up your own education and prove to yourself that Jesus DID NOT raise from the dead.

Don't take my word for it or any other man, you find out for yourself...unless of course you dont really want to

Rob

The reason that you are "Offended" and keep coming back here is that the spirit within you knows that the words of Jesus are true, and it is tugging on your heart even right now. Your anger at me is just a wall you put up to protect your heart from the truth. You know that God loves you and that Jesus died for you, What could be more desirable than knowing God on HIS terms.

If I never see you again here on these posts that I started then I will assume that you dont care what Jesus has to say. If you keep coming back here, I will assume that you want to know Him and are just awaiting more information.

You can keep assuming and predicting reasons for people's behavior all you like. But you are deluding yourself.

I must say that I think people have been very tolerant of your preaching, much more than I would have expected here on VJ.

At this point, I have completely lost respect for you and your opinion.

I'm sure you will say that it's because I hate Jesus. So be it. Maybe just think about doing a little bit of self-reflection.

You know the only problem with all that is that you have not stopped to consider that perhaps everything Jesus said and that the Bible says is really true. If it wasnt I woulld be here taking all this!

I am here because I care, that's all. I don't get anythng here by answering all the same questions I have answerd hundreds of times. I am here because there is so much interest in Jesus.

If there is not this interest, then why all the questions, and why all the friction? The post Got Jesus is the biggest response post on the polls section. That frankly surprised me. I thought that this generation wasn't interested in Jesus Christ or the Bible anyore. I have found that the opposite is true here.

The opposition that I have encountered here is proof to me that you still have something inside of you that wants to know God. I have been around long enough to know that opposition is really interest.

Case in point, I challenge everyone that posts here on Got Jesus and the Babies poll, if you dont want to hear this anymore, stop posting and I will go away...

BTW I am not pursuing you, you are coming here to the posts I started.

Rob

Rob, I am just trying to help you, honestly. If your mission is to open people's eyes to Jesus' love, you are seriously going about it in all the wrong way. I don't know why you keep ignoring that suggestion that's been brought up to you so many times by believers and nonbelievers alike.

Thanks for the concern but I have heard all of these things from everyone who rejects Jesus and the Bible for a very long time.

At first when I was saved I was really hurt that everyone couldn't see how wonderful Jesus was, so I tried not to offend anyone.

Then as I educated myself and learned how incredible the Bible is, I became more bold and learned that those people who put up the biggest front of argument are often the ones that are the closest to accepting Jesus love for them.

They fight so hard to ignore Him and His love for them, but finally they just cannot take it anymore, the Love of God is so overhwhelming that they finally realize how much they are loved and all that Jesus did to prove that love to them.

So it is worth it to me if people really want to know answers, I will try to give them WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.

I have not been angry, tired, or hateful towards anyone here, I have only told the truth. When the truth hits home, it really hurts. When you have cancer it takes a scalpel to remove it, and there is some pain involved. I cannot save or change anyone and I have no desire to. I am a fisherman, not a cleaner of the fish. Whatever needs to be done in your life, Jesus will do once you come to Him, I am only a messenger...

Rob cannot save anyone, only the precious blood of Jesus can do that. (The Bible's Words, not mine)

Rob

No. The bible is not science. I know because I'm an Engineer. If I relied on the bible, then your life as well as everyone else here would probably suffered major consequences from my errors.

Engineers' Ethic Code:

You must never jeopardize the safety of the public.

Are you also an expert on the Bible? or have you been taught what the bible says is myth, fantasy or heresay?

I challenge you to try and dissprove the resurrection of Jesus Christ...everyone who has taken up that challenge came away with two conclusions.

1. Jesus did rise from the dead on the third day as the Bible says, and they commited their lives to Him.

2. Jesus did rise from the dead on the third day as the Bible says, and they rejected Him anyway.

Rob

The reason that you are "Offended" and keep coming back here is that the spirit within you knows that the words of Jesus are true, and it is tugging on your heart even right now. Your anger at me is just a wall you put up to protect your heart from the truth. You know that God loves you and that Jesus died for you, What could be more desirable than knowing God on HIS terms.

If I never see you again here on these posts that I started then I will assume that you dont care what Jesus has to say. If you keep coming back here, I will assume that you want to know Him and are just awaiting more information.

You can keep assuming and predicting reasons for people's behavior all you like. But you are deluding yourself.

I must say that I think people have been very tolerant of your preaching, much more than I would have expected here on VJ.

At this point, I have completely lost respect for you and your opinion.

I'm sure you will say that it's because I hate Jesus. So be it. Maybe just think about doing a little bit of self-reflection.

You know the only problem with all that is that you have not stopped to consider that perhaps everything Jesus said and that the Bible says is really true. If it wasnt I woulld be here taking all this!

I am here because I care, that's all. I don't get anythng here by answering all the same questions I have answerd hundreds of times. I am here because there is so much interest in Jesus.

If there is not this interest, then why all the questions, and why all the friction? The post Got Jesus is the biggest response post on the polls section. That frankly surprised me. I thought that this generation wasn't interested in Jesus Christ or the Bible anyore. I have found that the opposite is true here.

The opposition that I have encountered here is proof to me that you still have something inside of you that wants to know God. I have been around long enough to know that opposition is really interest.

Case in point, I challenge everyone that posts here on Got Jesus and the Babies poll, if you dont want to hear this anymore, stop posting and I will go away...

BTW I am not pursuing you, you are coming here to the posts I started.

Rob

Everyone is saved exacty the same way. The people alive on the earth before Jesus made His sacrificce on the Cross, knew from Gods Word about a coming Savior, if they believe that word from God, they were saved.

How did they know? From what exactly?

You are really not reading the former posts I already made on this subject are you?

Are you asking me these questions because you really want to know the answers so that you can know If you could put your faith in Jesus Christ? Or are you just asking so that you can argue with me. If that is the case then my further answers serve no useful pupose for you. It does give others a chance to see how hardened some people are to the Love of God, and they get to see how God really feels about them as I tell them of His love for them. But I dont really want to keep repeating the same answers over and over again...

Rob

I'm just a little perplexed that you keep making specific references to overwhelming historical evidence, when what it really comes down to is entirely about faith and is entirely unspecific and outside of "that book" is entirely unproven.

It seems to me you're accepting as fact certain political judgements made about classical (non-christian) civilisations by the early church - which purged the older religions by demonising them (hence the reason why Pan so closely resembles the classical image of the devil).

Not true at all. The Christian faith as you put it, is based upon Historical fact, eyewitness testimony, Science, Astronomy, Mathematics, Logic and Revealed prophecy, just to mention a few.

I would recomend a few books to you, Creator Beyond time and space, God and the Cosmos, and any of Chuck Misslers books on the authenticity of the Bible.

If you are REALLY intrested I will give you scientific and other basis for "Faith" in Jesus Christ...

Rob

I don't doubt the bible has historical significance - but when people start introducing political discourses like creationism and intelligent design into the mix, then I tune out. I don't need mumbo-jumbo to understand symbolism and metaphor.

Oh but in history, science and mathematics is where the Bible really gets interesting and overwhelmingly convincing.

Rob

I have nothing against the average Christian who doesn't proselytize. I can think of many on VJ whom I like a huge amount and respect their views. But, and I'm going to be brutally honest here, if heaven is full of Christians like Rob then I don't want to go there anyway. Simple. If it means I have to listen to this ####### over and over again for eternity then I'll GLADLY go to hell. See ya...

You won't miss heaven because of Rob, you will miss it because you missed Jesus.

I have nothing to do with you making it or missing heaven, it all depends on what you do with Jesus Christ.

And why in the world would you want to go to heaven anyway since that is the home of the God you don't seem to believe?

The reason that you are "Offended" and keep coming back here is that the spirit within you knows that the words of Jesus are true, and it is tugging on your heart even right now. Your anger at me is just a wall you put up to protect your heart from the truth. You know that God loves you and that Jesus died for you, What could be more desirable than knowing God on HIS terms.

If I never see you again here on these posts that I started then I will assume that you dont care what Jesus has to say. If you keep coming back here, I will assume that you want to know Him and are just awaiting more information.

I didn't go after you, you came to me...

Rob

Everyone is saved exacty the same way. The people alive on the earth before Jesus made His sacrificce on the Cross, knew from Gods Word about a coming Savior, if they believe that word from God, they were saved.

How did they know? From what exactly?

You are really not reading the former posts I already made on this subject are you?

Are you asking me these questions because you really want to know the answers so that you can know If you could put your faith in Jesus Christ? Or are you just asking so that you can argue with me. If that is the case then my further answers serve no useful pupose for you. It does give others a chance to see how hardened some people are to the Love of God, and they get to see how God really feels about them as I tell them of His love for them. But I dont really want to keep repeating the same answers over and over again...

Rob

I'm just a little perplexed that you keep making specific references to overwhelming historical evidence, when what it really comes down to is entirely about faith and is entirely unspecific and outside of "that book" is entirely unproven.

It seems to me you're accepting as fact certain political judgements made about classical (non-christian) civilisations by the early church - which purged the older religions by demonising them (hence the reason why Pan so closely resembles the classical image of the devil).

Not true at all. The Christian faith as you put it, is based upon Historical fact, eyewitness testimony, Science, Astronomy, Mathematics, Logic and Revealed prophecy, just to mention a few.

I would recomend a few books to you, Creator Beyond time and space, God and the Cosmos, and any of Chuck Misslers books on the authenticity of the Bible.

If you are REALLY intrested I will give you scientific and other basis for "Faith" in Jesus Christ...

Rob

Are you 100% sure that politics didn't play a hand at the Council of Nicea when they were deciding which books can and cannot go into the bible?

How well did Matthew Mark Luke and John know Jesus? Did any of them ever meet him in person?

Why did an all powerful God need to send anyone to save his people. Is he not powerful enough to grant them His own mercy that He needs to have help?

If Jesus had to leave in order for the holy spirit to arrive, why the heck was John the Baptist baptizing in the name of the holy spirit while Jesus was still alive?

Why would Jesus, who is God according to the trinity, have to beg God to let this chalice pass him by? Isn't that like begging himself? And why did God not answer his prayer? And if he was to be the sacraficial lamb because God is not poweful enough to forgive people on his own accord, why did he try to hide in the garden of Gethsemane? Why not just walk right up to them since this was his main purpose for being?

Just askin'

I know the anwer to all these questions, they have been asked of me many, many times. Why do you want to know these things?

Are you a sincere seeker of the truth of God and do you want to know Him? Or are you asking me for the same reason that they asked Jesus the same kinds of questions, just to trap Him?

I don't mind answering questions from honest motives, but very often these same questions have been asked for the sole purpose of more argument. I could be wrong, but It seems that is the purpose of these questions from you...by the way that you framed them and by the quick manner of each question, it seems like your just want an argument.

So what is your TRUE motive for asking?

Rob

What is your TRUE motive for making all of these religious topics on this forum?

Hate to burst the ole bubble but no one asked Jesus about the politics involved in the council of Nicea. That happened after his ascension into heaven.

That is just as I thought then. You don't REALLY want to know the anwers do you?

Your looking to pick a fight. Sorry, not interested.

Those questions you asked are so basic and have such simple answers, too bad you never took the time to look at it seriously for yourself. Could be wrong, but I suspect you hold those possitions because someone else taught you that. Did you learned that from Religious course in College?

Rob

Are you 100% sure that politics didn't play a hand at the Council of Nicea when they were deciding which books can and cannot go into the bible?

How well did Matthew Mark Luke and John know Jesus? Did any of them ever meet him in person?

Why did an all powerful God need to send anyone to save his people. Is he not powerful enough to grant them His own mercy that He needs to have help?

If Jesus had to leave in order for the holy spirit to arrive, why the heck was John the Baptist baptizing in the name of the holy spirit while Jesus was still alive?

Why would Jesus, who is God according to the trinity, have to beg God to let this chalice pass him by? Isn't that like begging himself? And why did God not answer his prayer? And if he was to be the sacraficial lamb because God is not poweful enough to forgive people on his own accord, why did he try to hide in the garden of Gethsemane? Why not just walk right up to them since this was his main purpose for being?

Just askin'

I know the anwer to all these questions, they have been asked of me many, many times. Why do you want to know these things?

Are you a sincere seeker of the truth of God and do you want to know Him? Or are you asking me for the same reason that they asked Jesus the same kinds of questions, just to trap Him?

I don't mind answering questions from honest motives, but very often these same questions have been asked for the sole purpose of more argument. I could be wrong, but It seems that is the purpose of these questions from you...by the way that you framed them and by the quick manner of each question, it seems like your just want an argument.

So what is your TRUE motive for asking?

Rob