3AD

Hello everyone. Thanks so much in advance for clarifying an issue for us.

1. If a naturalized USC petitions for sibling (the long "10+ year process") and that sibling later applies for non-immigrant (i.e. tourist) visa, could it jeopardize the first immigration petition?

2. Since the wait for a sibling is so long, what if the USC later decides to petition for parent (they can't come first and petition child, the ideal process), then that immigrated parent as LPR petitions for the sibling (their child) -- which we know is faster -- will that cause any problems with the first petition by USC for sibling? In other words, we want to get the ball rolling with a sibling petition, but the USC's parent might be able to come later and "speed things up." Is that just an upgrade in immigration petition (from USC sibling petition to LPR parent petition)?

3. I've read in various threads that multiple petitions can be filed at the same time. That seems logical if they are all immigrant petitions. But what if the sibling, while waiting the long 10+ years, wants to enter on student visa? Will this mess things up? This is a variation of my first question above ...

Thanks!

Scott

Also note that if she comes as a tourist, she has to maintain legal status for the whole period (which is pretty much impossible for 10 years) - otherwise when her priority date becomes current she will be denied.

I might be misunderstanding. A few questions to clarify:

1. If a USC petitions for sibling (the long 10+ year process) and that sibling later applies for non - immigrant (tourist) visa, it could jeopardize the first petition?

2. Since the wait for a sibling is so long, what about other options, like USC later petitioning for parent, then that immigrated parent petitioning for the sibling (their child), which we know is faster?

2a. But does doing that while waiting for the initial petition cause any problems?

3. Earlier in the thread it appeared that multiple petitions could be filed at the same time. What if the sibling, while waiting, wants to enter on student visa?

Thanks!

Scott

What the F***?

Exactly.

The earlier quote about Marc giving the straight facts ... that's exactly right. He doesn't B.S. in either direction. That's why they respect him over at the Consulate I believe. He's successfully navigated many visas through there. So I guess that is a sales pitch for him after all. :-) But I'm here to say ... he's worth every penny and more. If you want his personal information, PM me and I will send it to you. I don't want to post it here in a public forum so as to prevent spam.

Now we've just got to get her over here before it's too late to travel as a pregnant woman.

See ya'll. I'm off to VN next Tuesday.

Best,

3AD

To address a few replies...

My attorney is Marc Ellis (EllisIsland). I prepared my original I-129F and had already sent it in before I thought I might need a lawyer due to special circumstances in our case. So, Marc did not prepare my original petition. He advised me on interview materials (Packet 3 preparation) but I did the preparation. Obviously he provided advice on interview protocol, customized to our situation, which was very crucial. He's very aware of what is being asked by CO's and how that changes over time. In the end, I am a stickler for detail and didn't need someone to do paperwork for me. I needed advice and representation in case of a problem, which ended up being the case. I know in the Vietnamese communities in Washington, D.C. and California there are many lawyers who offer "visa services." Basically, they are just doing paperwork for you. They've never stepped foot in HCMC Consulate. Bascially they are "middle men." Choose a lawyer like you would any other professional service provider.

Marc has been in Vietnam and/or dealing with immigration cases there for a long time. I'm not going to speak for him or even make a "sales pitch." But I will say this: We would not have the visa in hand right now if not for my attorney. I simply do not have the means of getting to "management" like he does. Eventually, I think we would have gotten our visa. But who knows how long it would have been until that happened. Anxiety is not a good thing, especially when my fiance is expecting a child.

3AD

This is the post I had hoped to write one day. My fiance got her K1 visa. Original post describing her interview is here. After President Bush finally left town, my attorney in HCMC was able to meet with the immigration chief and cleared things up in a matter of minutes. To be honest, there was no good reason for them to give her a blue slip (221g) in the first place. My attorney said because our application was so well prepared. To quote him:

"There was nothing specific about your case that

caused them to delay it. In fact, the reason they

gave me the pink slip was because you had such

a strong case. They could not justify delaying it

any longer. So your immaculate petition actually made a

difference."

Again, actions at the HCMC Consulate seem very arbitrary. As it turns out, this wasn't about "luck." It was about having a good lawyer who had good relations with the consulate and was prepared by knowing the laws.

Anyway, I truly wish you all the best in dealing with this place. I don't want to sound pessimistic. In the end, we knew things would work out because our relationship is legit. Keep that in mind as you are buffeted by the turbulence. We're excited. Our little girl will be born here so that, as my lawyer joked with the immigration chief about, she'll be able to be president one day. :-)

Best,

3AD

"Regardless of whether you have a marriage paper "

It worked for us!

Congratulations. How old is your child? How far along was your wife during the interview?

"Marriage visa...That's about another year-and-a-half process"

Really?

Yes. I'm not sure about your situation, but it's not recommended to travel on a long international flight within a few months after giving birth. How old was your little one when your wife left Vietnam?

"lLackadaisical advice............perhaps even capricious"

No, it's not arbitrary/implusive feedback; The USCIS doesn't recommend a lawyer and many other successful petitioners who have gone through HCMC, including myself, didn't use a lawyer.

Can you point me to where a United States government entity explicitly does not recommend legal counsel for a citizen in dealing with immigration?

"There was no issue with the adjudication (referring to your own case)"

Then, why did their blue letter response ask you to call the ASC office?

It didn't. Again, you failed to read the original message carefully. It said that our child (?) is eligible for U.S. Citizenship.

Thanks for being so sensitive in my situation. Thanks to smart folks like you, this forum is a god-send for visa hopefuls, regardless of the complexities of their situation. I'm kicking myself now wondering why I hired a lawyer instead of coming on here and finding you.

I look forward to seeing evidence of your claims. I'll pass them along to my lawyer.

Take care,

3AD

because from what I read, at the interview the decision has already been made ( 98 % ) ?

Andrew,

I'd support this conclusion. The reason being is that my fiance's 221g form, which is the infamous "blue slip," has all of her information neatly typed in (name, case number, date, etc.). The CO that interviewed her already had it in hand at the end of the interview. She just scribbled her signature on it and handed it to my fiance.

Also, with regard to your situation and the dam hoi, you are absolutely correct. Age would have an effect on to dam hoi or not to dam hoi, or at least the largess and fanfare. This is especially true if either or both have been previously married. Thanks so much for the (implied) compliment. I guess it depends on what you consider young. While my fiance is considerably younger, I'm 32 and holding. :-)

Good luck to you both.

3AD

3ad

Go ahead and call the ACS and let us know what their response is? Then ask them if you can re-apply for a marriage visa, If that would improve your eligiblity status given a newborn beneficiary? and then ask them what the requirements for a marriage visa are?

P

There is no connection between marriage and legitimacy of child, if that is in fact what they are concerned with. While they don't clearly state it, they probably are concerned about legitimacy and I think speculation from others on this thread, like Tony&AnhThu, is correct. Personally, it makes sense to me too. The problem is, they are not explicit in their reasoning and moreover, there is no guideline for their denial. Just like STL_HCMC's question about why they won't accept a DNA test. It's because they are venturing into a legal gray area and since they have no guideline for a fiance's pregnancy (or a spouse for that matter), concomitantly they do not have a policy for DNA testing. For the record, DNA testing is used for other State Department matters and there is a third party company that is authorized by the DoS to conduct DNA testing that satisfies their requirements in those situations (e.g. kidnapping, questions of paternity where a foreign parent does not want to own up to parenting the child, etc.).

I think I am now seeing your logic. You are suggesting that if we were married, that would some how improve our chances by making us seem more "legitimate." I'm here to tell you that the consulate in Vietnam does not consider marriage any more of a "legitimate relationship" than engagement. I'm not sure if you've been to Vietnam, but it's about as easy to set up a wedding and marriage as it is to buy a bowl of pho noodles on the street corner. Getting a marriage certificate for any two people is matter of anywhere from 300,000 to 10,000,000 Vietnam Dong (about US$20 - 600) paid to the right government clerk. Middlemen will arrange everything for you, right down the ceremony, pictures (with multiple changes of clothes to make it look like you were there longer), chat logs, fake emails, love letters, etc. And in the end, you are officially married and have a paper to prove it. The consulate officers know this. So they are essentially looking for proof of relationship, regardless of whether you have a marriage paper issued by the overtly corrupt Vietnamese government or not. To them, the process of scrutiny is the same. In our case, we would have had a visa with or without a marriage certificate. Again, as per answers to my inquiry by calling the consulate, there was no issue with the adjudication of our relationship evidence, financial support, etc.

I am aware of the requirements for a marriage visa. Anyone can get that information from DoS web sites. Sure, I can cancel the K1 and apply for a K3. That's about another year-and-a-half process. My little girl would be about 2 years old by then. It's essentially the exact same process as the K1, I'll just have a piece of paper from erstwhile Vietnamese authorities that says I'm married. That would have no bearing on the CO's belief in a legitimate relationship or, now it seems, their belief that my pregnant fiance's child is actually mine.

Telling people to ignore lawyers who have years of experience with that specific consulate and instead get their information free from the internet is lackadaisical advice I'm afraid -- perhaps even capricious.

Obviously they do have a problem with it and your case was delayed for being ineligible.

Patricks,

You didn't read my message carefully. I was referring to the dam hoi ceremony. The consulate does not have a problem with dam hoi ceremony. Also, that's not why my case was delayed. The case was delayed to establish citizenship for an unborn person. Not the dam hoi.

3AD

i heard one time and everyone keeps telling my girl we will be denied coz we didnt have a engagment party.for one i didnt know know about that custom there,i met her mom and sister and her uncle too but most of her family as well as her dad was north viet cong since he was 14 .he dosent know about me yet.is haveing i engagment party really required ?GREEN/TRAN

Go with the dam hoi. Don't think like a "practical" American. Think like a status-conscious Vietnamese. This is a very crucial part of the change of status from being a single woman to an engaged/married one and the acceptance of this by both families. Vietnamese put heavy emphasis on pomp and circumstance -- I would even go so far as to say style over substance. Many VN will go into significant debt to have a big show for their dam hoi/dam cuoi. Showing the community your status is one of the main reasons for having a dam hoi. What you pay for any level of a ceremony over there is pittance compared to a similar ceremony here. The less humble, the better. Others can refute this, but I base my opinion on dealing with the Vietnamese community for over 10 years, living and working there quite extensively, and studying contemporary Asian culture as my major during undergraduate education.

Vietnamese on the forum should be able to back me up on this one. I've seen VN-American relationships sour because of the "American rationale" imposed by the American partner (which 99% is the male).

The consulate officer knows of this importance of the ceremony in Vietnamese culture. Not having it (or trying to diminish it) would appear odd to them. The Vietnamese never "down play" a ceremony like this.

Also remember that Vietnamese will generally be humble in asking for things, perhaps even from their fiance (at least in the beginning). They don't "speak their mind" like Americans. They may say no when they mean yes, which is typical of Asian interpersonal communications. This is in response to "thinking" your fiance might not care if you don't have one. Trust me, she does.

3AD

Let me see:

Yes Marriage Ceremony

No Marriage Certificate

Pregnant Visa Applicant

Applying for Fiancee Visa

It just doesn't add up correctly?

Sorry, I think this delay can't be blamed on the Consulate

Patricks,

I'm not sure I follow at all. Marriage ceremonies followed by not signing the marriage registry are common in Vietnam. Even for those not going through the visa process, many Vietnamese are "married" without a paper. In our case, this is not an attempt to game the system. The ceremony is to satisfy Vietnamese customs since once my fiance arrives in US, while we will obviously get married and have a ceremony here, it would be years before we could go back and do the same in Vietnam. So having a symbolic (dam hoi) ceremony is not unusual at all. Many people on this forum have done the same. Attorneys don't have a problem with it. The consulate doesn't have a problem with it. Which is why they are not concerned with seeing pictures of people in ceremonial wedding outfits who are filing for a K1 Fiance visa. In fact, as others on the forum will tell you, not doing that can lead them to be suspicious because they know how important that ceremony is in Vietnamese culture.

As to the pregnancy, since visa applications often take a year or more, do you wait to start a family? Again, in the eyes of Vietnamese (her family, the community at large) we are for all pratical (i.e. customary) purposes, married. We would be officially married (if a paper from a government authority is what people consider marriage) before the baby is born if the consulate would adjudicate based on the law and not some arbitrary notion. Nothing in our application points to denial on grounds as dictated by the immigration act. This is even evident in their 221g explanation. It doesn't give reasons like "no ability to financially support" or "lack of relationship evidence" which are clearly spelled out in legislation. It starts talking about citizenship for a person who does not exist. The United States government operates on a rule of law as created by elected officials, not case-by-case construction of the law. If the State Department wants to include paternity checks of beneficiary's unborn children, I'm all for it. Makes logical sense. But that has to be spelled out in law first and then enforced. No other embassy operates on a such an arbitrary nature as the one in HCMC.

Provide me with a little more elaboration on why you don't think this adds up and should cause a delay. I honestly don't see the evidence or rationale for it.

3AD

An update to my original post here.

Update:

My fiance sent me the 221g form. Under reasons for ineligibility, it says:

* Your child may have a claim to U.S. citizenship. Please contact the American Citizen Services Setion of the Consulate for more information. Please submit a copy of your child's passport if applicable.*

Weird. I don't have a child (yet). Reference to 221(g) of the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act makes no mention of unborn children or their effect on issuance of a visa. So they are basing their decision on circumstances involving someone who doesn't exist yet. I'm failing to see the connection to immigration law.

Someone in a reply to my original post had mentioned needing to marry and changing to K3 status. This is not the case. There are provisions for claiming American citizenship for children born abroad out-of-wedlock. It is not the U.S. government's purview to determine whether children should be be born in or out of wedlock, therefore they have such provisions for both cases. As far as "losing face" in Vietnam ... we have already had dam hoi ceremony (pictures submitted with visa documents) which, in the eyes of Vietnamese, is sufficient. I've spent eight months total with my fiance, around their neighborhood, with family, etc., etc. Vietnamese will tell you the ceremony is worth more than a paper that shows marriage (which we never signed, of course, at risk of invalidating our K1).

So, if my fiance had gone in to the interview just a few months earlier, she'd have a visa now (??). The fact that she was visibly pregnant would be the only indicator to a CO. There are no requirements on any forms to disclose pregnancy. We did not need to mention it in our application (although I did in the cover letter, which the first clerk just threw in the trash upon getting our paperwork).

While I see the logic of making sure the fiance is carrying the petitioner's baby, paternity cannot be assessed based on the requirements for claiming U.S. citizenship for a child born abroad, which are available on the consulate's web site. Paternity can, however, be determined by way of a DNA test, which can happen before birth. I called to inquire about this and they said they wouldn't accept a DNA test (even through third party which historically supplies embassies with DNA test results). The Vietnamese woman on the phone at the embassy just kept saying come back after the baby is born. So what will she do, look at the baby and make a judgment?

Folks, here's the deal. The easiest way to get into the United States is to go to Mexico and cross the border, as did this political candidate to prove the point -- marching across on a parade of elephants with a mariachi band in tow.

As of now, I won't see my daughter's birth (which will happen mid-semester while I'm teaching at the university). I'll be out another $4000-5000 for short little trips over to see them during the next year (or however long it takes). I'm not criticizing the fact that the government needs to scrutinize to prevent freeloaders or worse from getting into the United States. But this defies logic. It certainly fails to be efficient.

At any rate, good luck to you all. I really appreciate all of your kind words, support, and consideration of my troubles. My hope is that each of you will face easier obstacles, or none at all. As for us, my lawyer will handle this from here on in.

Best,

3AD

Hi 3AD,

Sorry to hear this. What you can be sure of, is that there is an excellent resource of people here on VJ to support you and for you to bounce ideas off of in addition to your lawyer.

I wish you both the best of luck, strength and patience to get through this!

STL_HCMC

Thanks STL. I think we'll be able to work our way out of this. I appreciate your encouragement. The biggest downer is that we have a small window during which she could travel before becoming too close to delivery date. Now that's probably out of the question so I will not be around for my daughter's birth since it will happen in VN during which time I'll be teaching here at the university in U.S. :-( Anyway, we'll keep our heads up.

Best,

3AD

3AD: Do you know exactly what the wording is on the 221g? By law it is supposed to state the reason for the refusal whether it be Administrative Processing (AP), Administrative Review (AR), or Returned to the United States service center for further review.

Now, if it is due to AR or AP then this is normal (sometimes extensive) security/background checks and you will be fine. I know Marc can assist thoroughly. You need to know the exact wording of this 221g...can you have your fiance scan it and email it to you so you can see it for your own eyes?

I pray this is only AR/AP and not being returned to the US for further review. You do have the right lawyer for this what ever this 221g says.

~Kiyah~

Kiyah,

Thanks for your post. Actually, I did exactly what you suggested and asked my fiance to scan and send it once she gets back home. So, sorry to be incomplete in my original missive. I know that my fiance said there are checkboxes for "further documentation" and an area to write details, but nothing was checked or filled out apparently. I'll re-post once I get that info.

Thanks,

3AD

i havent seen my exwife since we got divorced

i hear you need proof in vietnam thats i am no longer living with her or something.i havent spoke to her since she left and i have court order not to do so.what do i do?

I thought this would be an issue in my case as I was previously married to a non U.S. citizen who eventually got a green card. I sent my divorce decree but also had my fiance take my entire divorce settlement and my ex-wife's contact information just in case. They never asked for it, only looking at the decree and didn't have any questiosn about that either. We were expecting the "Do you know your fiance was previously married? Where is his ex-wife? Why did they divorce?" line of questioning but it never happened.

3AD

I've not been on VJ in a while, but here's our story. Fiance had her interview yesterday.

We had a rock solid app going in. Marc Ellis (EllisIsland) is representing us. Everything in order, organized, all financials, even had a job offer. Everything notarized, organized, etc.

As usual, first person at embassy my fiance dealt with is very rude. As soon as she handed the clerk our paperwork the clerk snapped back and said "Where's this? Why don't you have this? Didn't you read the letter?" OK folks. Here's the deal. I had everything, I mean EVERYTHING they asked for. I spent over 20 hours putting the documents together. I am totally ####### about details. Absolutely everything was in the precise order that they asked for according to Packet 4 instructions. My fiance had to tell the clerk three times that everything was there. The clerk finally realized that we did have everything and reluctantly shut up, only after taking apart my neatly organized application and shuffling stuff around, throwing stuff back at my fiance, ignoring my cover letter that explained the contents and our situation.

First interview was unfortunately with another Vietnamese. This person just asked routine questions "Where did you meet, how many times has he been here to visit, etc. etc.?" in Vietnamese language. Took notes, took the paperwork and asked my fiance to wait again.

Hours of waiting and then an interview with (finally) a U.S. citizen consular officer who was very nice. She was a woman, probably around 25, who didn't look at any travel receipts or correspondence. Asked the routine questions, including how we communicated. My fiance said many ways, including chat, email, etc. CO said show her those evidences. Asked about my visits. Since I lived and worked in Vietnam for long periods, there was confusion over my "visits" (which were actually for work as well as to see my fiance -- I met her in person in VN while working there and spent a total of 8 months together over the past year and a half). The CO was very polite, asked to see a few pictures (which included dam hoi ceremony which my mother flew over and attended), flipped through 40+ pages of correspondence (letters, email, phone records) but didn't scrutinize too carefully. Looked at job offer letter for my fiance (which was from my maternal aunt who owns a salon). Asked about my line of work (I'm PhD student in business, there was some discussion about that). Very candid conversation, a little joking, a little "girl talk." CO asked if my fiance was pregnant and my fiance said yes. CO asked how far along and my fiance told her six months. Asked if boy or girl. We have a little girl on the way. CO smiled, said congratuations about that and then handed her a blue slip (form 221g). Got up, went to lunch and my fiance had to leave.

The 221g does not have any reasons listed on it, although there are places for that. My fiance returned to the embassy after their lengthy lunch break and the Vietnamese girl at the window told her to come back after she had her baby and fill out paperwork for American citizenship for the child. They kept all documents except for correspondence (proof of relationship) and travel receipts, which they gave back to my fiance.

I'm stumped. No explanation on 221g leaves me nowhere but stumped. Marc, my attorney, will be back in Vietnam in a few weeks and we'll hopefully get things straightened out.

I guess I'm in "AR" (Administrative Review)?

I'm upset. Not so much over our 221g, but the lack of courtesy from people who are State Department employees. When I've called before, they are very rude, condescending, etc. Typical Vietnamese style (remember, I've lived and worked there) of someone in "power" dealing with someone who needs their help. This is not the level of customer service taxpayers should be getting.

Don't know if this story will help anyone. But by the way, the embassy does not consider co-sponsors according to my attorney and many others I've talked to recently. They do, however, look favorably on legitimate job offers (which they asked questions about in detail). I just had that as backup (including all relevant business tax returns, letterhead, bank officer letters, etc.). Although my salary is low as a doctoral student, I've got significant funds in the bank and am a designated principal in a long-term successful business (had all documentation for that, business license, bank letters, financial statements, cashflow, etc.). I don't think the financials were an issue.

We'll see. It's a mystery. My fiance is sitting on a bus right now for the 8 hour ride back home. I'll update when I can.

Best to everyone.

3AD

I've not been on VJ in a while, but here's our story. Fiance had her interview yesterday.

We had a rock solid app going in. Marc Ellis (EllisIsland) is representing us. Everything in order, organized, all financials, even had a job offer. Everything notarized, organized, etc.

As usual, first person at embassy my fiance dealt with is very rude. As soon as she handed the clerk our paperwork the clerk snapped back and said "Where's this? Why don't you have this? Didn't you read the letter?" OK folks. Here's the deal. I had everything, I mean EVERYTHING they asked for. I spent over 20 hours putting the documents together. I am totally ####### about details. Absolutely everything was in the precise order that they asked for according to Packet 4 instructions. My fiance had to tell the clerk three times that everything was there. The clerk finally realized that we did have everything and reluctantly shut up, only after taking apart my neatly organized application and shuffling stuff around, throwing stuff back at my fiance, ignoring my cover letter that explained the contents and our situation.

First interview was unfortunately with another Vietnamese. This person just asked routine questions "Where did you meet, how many times has he been here to visit, etc. etc.?" in Vietnamese language. Took notes, took the paperwork and asked my fiance to wait again.

Hours of waiting and then an interview with (finally) a U.S. citizen consular officer who was very nice. She was a woman, probably around 25, who didn't look at any travel receipts or correspondence. Asked the routine questions, including how we communicated. My fiance said many ways, including chat, email, etc. CO said show her those evidences. Asked about my visits. Since I lived and worked in Vietnam for long periods, there was confusion over my "visits" (which were actually for work as well as to see my fiance). The CO was very polite, asked to see a few pictures, flipped through 40+ pages of correspondence (letters, email, phone records) but didn't scrutinize too carefully. Looked at job offer letter for my fiance (which was from my maternal aunt who owns a salon). Asked about my line of work (I'm PhD student in business, there was some discussion about that). Very candid conversation, a little joking, a little "girl talk." CO asked if my fiance was pregnant and my fiance said yes. CO asked how far along and my fiance told her six months. Asked if boy or girl. We have a little girl on the way. CO smiled, said congratuations about that and then handed her a blue slip (form 221g). Got up, went to lunch and my fiance had to leave.

The 221g does not have any reasons listed on it, although there are places for that. My fiance returned to the embassy after their lengthy lunch break and the Vietnamese girl at the window told her to come back after she had her baby and fill out paperwork for American citizenship for the child. They kept all documents except for correspondence (proof of relationship) and travel receipts, which they gave back to my fiance.

I'm stumped. No explanation on 221g leaves me nowhere but stumped. Marc, my attorney, will be back in Vietnam in a few weeks and we'll hopefully get things straightened out.

I guess I'm in "AR" (Administrative Review)?

I'm upset. Not so much over our 221g, but the lack of courtesy from people who are State Department employees. When I've called before, they are very rude, condescending, etc. Typical Vietnamese style (remember, I've lived and worked there) of someone in "power" dealing with someone who needs their help. This is not the level of customer service taxpayers should be getting.

Don't know if this story will help anyone. But by the way, the embassy does not consider co-sponsors according to my attorney and many others I've talked to recently. They do, however, look favorably on legitimate job offers (which they asked questions about in detail). I just had that as backup (including all relevant business tax returns, letterhead, bank officer letters, etc.). Although my salary is low as a doctoral student, I've got significant funds in the bank and am a designated principal in a long-term successful business (had all documentation for that, business license, bank letters, financial statements, cashflow, etc.). I don't think the financials were an issue.

We'll see. It's a mystery. My fiance is sitting on a bus right now for the 8 hour ride back home. I'll update when I can.

Best to everyone.

3AD

Can someone tell me how they tracked their approved petition after USCIS sends to NVC and NVC sends to HCMC consulate?

Also, how do you find out your case number?

Thanks,

3AD

Matt,

I'm in Vietnam now. Not sure if you've left, but need your help. Connection is not good here, but I'm wondering how you found out DHL had sent your package from NVC to HCMC consulate? In other words, how did you track it? And did you get a case number? If so, how?

If you can write me back, that would be great.

Have a great trip. I think this is your first time to VN. Don't worry about the ring. As they've said, just carry it in your carry-on, don't even put it in a special box (or separate them).

3AD

I discussed this with my lawyer, and he is clueless. He told me that an engagement party is not important to the consulate, and to just provide evidence of our relationship.

Mike,

I hate to say it, but your lawyer is dead wrong. How familiar is he with working visas through HCMC? This is one of those issues that is very specific to Vietnam. NOT having a dam hoi ceremony will throw up a definite red flag to a consulate officer in Vietnam, because they are familiar with the customs there and know that the family expects that.

I think those pictures (all of them) are fine. I'm actually having a dam cuoi (wedding) ceremony but not signing the marriage registry book. So it's not official. But for the same reasons (family cannont attend wedding in USA, etc.). The consulate in HCMC is familiar with seeing all of this.

3AD

Dress = 400 USD

Dowry = 500 USD

Engagement Party = 1500 USD

Engagement ring = $4000

Love = Priceless

Matt,

I'm going back to VN in May and will have my dam hoi/dam cuoi at that time. I looked at your itemization of expenses. I'm not sure if that's serious, but here's my two cents. I've been involved w/ Vietnamese culture and living and working in Vietnam on and off since 1997. This is just my opinion and you've got to do what you've got to do. Others may disagree. But here goes.

I think you're spending way too much on the ring. I did "both" traditions -- gave her a ring and asked her to marry me "American style" last year ... but knowing that the real deal was when we had a Vietnamese style engagement. I bought her a diamond in HCMC, set in white gold, for around $600 USD. That's about .3 carat. She was elated. (Keep in mind the average salary for VN is less than $1000 PER YEAR.)

But the ring is only part of the jewelry which is expected at the dam hoi/dam cuoi -- which is what is REALLY important to family, community and the consulate. We'll have about 150 people at the ceremony (which is really a dam cuoi/wedding, although we're not getting married on paper). I'll spend about $2000 on that, which will include beer or wine (very important -- you've really got to understand "face" and "community" and "status" and "family" aspects of Asian/Vietnamese culture). The other jewelry, which includes necklace, earrings, will be about $1000. I'm not sure if you've read up on dam hoi/dam cuoi and the trappings involved, but you could search on VJ or even Google and talk to your fiance about it.

So, you're going "American style" and really spending the bucks on the ring. I might recommend balancing your spending and leave more for the ceremony. The bigger the better (almost all Vietnamese go into debt on the ceremony, even though that's not rational, just to "show off" and show everyone in the community -- the ring won't do that) the same way people here might go into debt and "show off" a ring. The Vietnamese, in one word, are ostentatious ... especially with family status. An expensive ring is more individualistic and thus a bigger part of American/Western culture.

I hope this makes sense. I know a lot of this advice can seem confusing. I'd highly recommend talking to your fiance about working in at least a dam hoi (engagement ceremony) with opportunity for pictures, meeting with family, etc., and maybe ratcheting down on the ring. $3500 is a lot of wealth concentrated in one place by Vietnamese standards. I bought my fiance a real Movado watch (almost all in VN are fakes) which was about $400. She's afraid to wear it for fear of thieves sometimes.

That's my tooting of the horn. You guys need to work it out, of course. But keep the words "family," "community reputation," and "status" at the forefront of everything you do in Vietnam. Put "individual" and "American style" at the back.

And be prepared to be very, very patient with everything. Vietnam operates on a "rubber clock" -- things go very slow and rarely on schedule.

Best,

3AD

I am bringing it just in case.................since I submitted a copy with the petition.

I would kick myself if they did ask for it-Gav & I haven't been the luckiest people lately, so better for us to be safe than sorry

Yep, and be careful about making generalizations about what is required. It varies by consulate. The original post was by someone going through Vietnam. In Vietnam, they ask for the both the beneficiary's and petitioner's ORIGINAL birth certificate as well as a copy.

See here: http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/required_documents2.html

Best,

3AD

After receipt of Packet 3, how long does the recipient have to submit?

Also, the same question for Packet 4 ...

Thanks,

3AD

This was a couple of days ago. Can the person who found that link supply it? I have searched everywhere.

http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/

The email address is under "Contact Us."

Get to know this site well. :-)

3AD

I am getting everything together that I will need to send my fiancee for her interview, and I had a question about the birth certificate. Is a Certified copy obtained from the state department of vital records good enough to send her? Also I have seen people discuss the issue of affidavit of single status, is this required to send her? I haven't seen it mentioned in the requirements.

Thanks

Mike,

To be on the safe side, make sure your birth certificate has your parent's information too. Sometimes this is called the "long form" birth certificate. And original "certified copy" from VR should be sent ... not a copy of the certified copy.

Affidavit of single status is something required in Vietnam when applying for K3. We don't have that in the States.

3AD