cnm2001

Well, then we are in agreement. It IS rare enough to be a cultural aberration. The problem here is not of one red flag (which possibly can be countered or explained), it's when you add all of them (the FB meeting, the age gap , difference in race, the minimal time spent together in person -- all text book red-flags) up, that things don't begin to look too good and invites heavy scrutiny.

As far as what I am drinking, last night, it was margaritas (yay for Monday margaritas!). This morning, though, I promise, it's merely my morning cuppa.

Anyway, It's always so lovely to meet a fellow-countryman. Wonderful, so which part of India are you from?

I am from Hyderabad. Great to meet you as well. And best wishes.

I was doing another good deed as a VJ Samaritan and pointing out to her the (supremely obvious) reasons that the visa was denied (since she showed zero acknowledgement of them). Because once she's done raving and ranting, recognition of those very factors that led to the denial will actually help her in the second round, should she decide to embark on Round II. B!tching to internet strangers is no doubt cathartic but in the long term, kind of pointless.

Meh, I am no champion defender of the consulate officers -- I just recognize that their job is not easy. Here's the thing, though, do you think if the CO had been rude and insulting to her fiance and still issued the visa at the end, she'd be up in arms writing letters to Congressmen? I'm guessing not. That tells me that she's p!ssed off that 1. her fiance was denied (and 2. ill-treated) as is her right. But overcoming all those red-flags with substantial evidence (no doubt an uphill task especially if they charge him with material misrep) is ultimately going to be more fruitful than letter-writing and venting. I am still not sure where I disrespected her, though. If you think about it, actually, my comments are a lot more practical, elaborate and actual in terms of advice than a lot of these supposedly helpful and supportive comments that don't offer anything else beyond "God Bless" and "how dare they!"

You still haven't said why you could not ignore SunDancer's original post, if you didn't think she was asking for suggestions. You say that you "just recognize that [the Co's] job is not easy." Were you feeling bad for them? Or, did you want to defend (by way of gratitude) the CO who granted you a visa in less than three minutes? In either case, you did not have to say anything disrespectful of SunDancer.

By Indian you mean, of Indian origin? If not, where in India are you from? I am having a hard time believing that you personally know of 4 cases where a 20 year old Indian boy was engaged/married to a nearly 40 year old Indian woman who had previously had a child out of wedlock. You're telling me that this couple, according to you, would be deemed totally normal and acceptable in Indian society circles? In your experience, this is a routine case?

If so, what are you smoking? And can I get in on some of it?

I spent the first 25 yrs of my life in India, and still hold an Indian passport. I travel to India at least once or twice each year. Why do you have such hard time believing that I know of four such cases? Does it bother you when someone disagrees with you? The four couples that I know are urbanites who have transcended traditional notions of marriage. The difference between isn't 24 yrs but close (BTW, SunDancer's fiance is 24yrs old, not 20 as you say. I suggest that you reread her post). I never said their situation would be deemed normal. In fact, I explicitly stated that "it is not "normal." You seem to be having trouble comprehending posts. So, the question is, what are you drinking when you are on this site?

I was doing another good deed as a VJ Samaritan and pointing out to her the (supremely obvious) reasons that the visa was denied (since she showed zero acknowledgement of them). Because once she's done raving and ranting, recognition of those very factors that led to the denial will actually help her in the second round, should she decide to embark on Round II. B!tching to internet strangers is no doubt cathartic but in the long term, kind of pointless.

Meh, I am no champion defender of the consulate officers -- I just recognize that their job is not easy. Here's the thing, though, do you think if the CO had been rude and insulting to her fiance and still issued the visa at the end, she'd be up in arms writing letters to Congressmen? I'm guessing not. That tells me that she's p!ssed off that 1. her fiance was denied (and 2. ill-treated) as is her right. But overcoming all those red-flags with substantial evidence (no doubt an uphill task especially if they charge him with material misrep) is ultimately going to be more fruitful than letter-writing and venting. I am still not sure where I disrespected her, though. If you think about it, actually, my comments are a lot more practical, elaborate and actual in terms of advice than a lot of these supposedly helpful and supportive comments that don't offer anything else beyond "God Bless" and "how dare they!"

Thanks for your response. Wishing you a wonderful night.

Population of India is c 1,170,938,000

So what sub culture is this normal and what sort of percentage would such cases make?

10% plus

5% plus

....1% plus...

I can mention at least four such cases. You can't say that it doesn't exist just because you haven't seen any such cases. It amounts to making an argument from silence.

Enough not to cause a read flag?

Don't let's forget whose opinion matters more here, and I believe that the CO stated it though I may have to go back and reread it.

You are right that it might be enough to cause a reg flag, but SunDancer has the right to feel that justice was not served. I have no right to suggest that she is wrong to feel that way.

I await the answer with bated breadth.

My point was that in a country of more than a billion people, folks marry in all sorts of ways. It is simplistic to talk about "Indian societal norms."

So in which subculture is this normal.

It is not "normal" in the sense that it happens on a regular basis, but it is not unprecedented.

And if you knew anything about India or Indian societal norms you would know that a child from a previous "relationship" would be considered much "worse" than a child from a previous "marriage." At least, when it comes to consulate officers who are well aware of prevalent cultural attitudes in India and how an average 24 year old Indian male's parents are likely to feel about these circumstances.

I am from India, and I can say that there is nothing monolithic about "Indian societal norms." The societal norms are as varied as the subcultures themselves, and there are hundreds of subcultures.

Well, I am glad that my posts finally convinced you to delurk. Let's call that my good deed for the day. I also thank you for your concern regarding my social skills. Here's the kicker. I didn't join VJ to display my social skills or make friends. I have enough of those in real life. The comment I made earlier, that my interview took less than three minutes wasn't bragging on my part, merely a fact. I know plenty of people whose interviews were a breeze, too. Others who had a torrid time and were humiliated and berated for hours. My point was rather simple: all cases are unique and that, your mileage may vary. A huge factor that led to a relatively uncomplicated immigration journey was the enormous amount help and wonderful advice I got on this site. And the best help came from some fantastic veteran members who gave sharp, precise advice. No BS, no fuzzy-wuzziness -- just straight-talking. That's what I try to emulate. Because sometimes people need to hear things that they don't particularly want to hear. Nothing chaps my hide more than these "supportive" comments that are nothing but empty platitudes and offers nothing more than false hope. Contact your ambassador. Is that the US ambassador to India? The Indian ambassador to the US? Anyway, what on earth is an ambassador going to do?

Not once did the OP in her opening post ask for help or suggestions. I can't find a single sentence where she says that. I don't see an instance of "what do I do now?" All I see is a lot of blustering and blithering about how horrible those people were, how they yelled at her fiance, how she's going to contact her Congressman, yada yada yada, and something about panties and how she's not going to take this lying down. Not once in her opening paragraph does she show any (implicit) acknowledgement that perhaps, her case is full of several holes and for a high-fraud consulate, this outcome (denial) was not surprising. The treatment of the beneficiary (which I am not saying I agree with) was frankly, pretty much in keeping with the norm and similar to what I witnessed when seated at the embassy for three hours. This is how I see it, you are under no compulsion to remain in the embassy and be yelled at for eight hours. You're not being kept there against your will, ergo, you're free to leave at your convenience. Till date, I haven't attacked her personally or anyone else on this site (although, I tell ya, it's getting hard trying to remain polite). I suggest you re-read her opening paragraph and feel free to correct me if my comprehension skills are lacking.

In the meantime, have a nice night.

You say "Not once did the OP in her opening post ask for help or suggestions. I can't find a single sentence where she says that."

If you didn't think she asked for suggestions, why did you feel the need to respond? I am sure you could have ignored her post. Were you upset that she was complaining about the CO?

No one comes to VJ to display social skills, but any interaction, even a faceless one like this, calls for respect for others.

I wish you also a nice night. As I said, none of this intended to be harsh on you. Just a suggestion that everyone deserves respect.

Sachinky is one of the most intelligent, literate, thoughtful, no-bullsh!t members of VisaJourney -- wise beyond her years, and a breath of fresh air.

"Intelligent and literate?" - certainly. "Wise beyond her years?" I am not sure! I am sure she is thoughtful, but not in the most prudent fashion. She has a proclivity to articulate (and publish) every thought that occurs to her, whether it has any value or not.

I am a new member but I am not exactly new to VisaJourney. I have relied on this website extensively during my immigration process but never registered..until now. I felt the need to register after reading sachinky's comments regarding SunDancer's situation. I could be wrong but I get the impression that sachinky has a bit of "I am better than others" attitude. Her thinly veiled judgmental comments about SunDancer's relationship and her statement about how the CO granted her a visa in less than three minutes are just two examples. When I applied for a visa several years ago it was granted very easily and quickly. I did have a strong case, but two others I knew were denied at the same consulate, despite the fact they also had strong evidence. The point is that it is not always possible to explain (much less explain away) the CO's decisions simplistically. Nor should one try to. Sundancer felt that justice was not served in her case, and she approached this site seeking suggestions. I have no idea whether justice was served or not. But the best I can do is to offer her helpful suggestions, if I have any. If there is nothing helpful to say, I should at least have the courtesy to stay quiet. This is not meant as an attack on sachink. Not at all. Perhaps she is too young and needs help in terms of social skills.