raymondreason

Is it possible to apply for the DV Lottery and a K1 or K3 visa at the same time?

Agreed! If it had the ability to protect the US taxpayer, then I could understand. However, because people who make very little money are the ones being asked to sign it, it clearly does not protect the US taxpayer.

People post that both parties make sacrifices etc. My idea of a sacrifice for a fiance or foreign spouse is altering my life, providing and protecting her, making sure she lives a happy and fulfilling life, helping her adapt to integrate into US society and make new friends, being the best husband and father that I can. This form is not the correct trade-off when talking about sacrifices both parties make. It is simply an "attempt" to protect the US taxpayer (which it does not), and it places a potential lifelong burden (assuming she never files for citizenship nor meets the required number of qualifying quarters of work) on the USC in the event the marriage fails and by doing so it gives the beneficiary the ability to purposely financially destroy and sabotage the USC's life... forever if she/he so wishes. This is why I am absolutely dumbfounded that anyone would ever co-sponsor for another individual or that the US government even allows co-sponsors. So much for the US government looking out for citizens.

Yeah, i've seen this over and over through life. People just don't read contracts. And i mean really, can you blame them? The fine print on insurance policies comes to mind. You basically just end up trusting your agent and just hope you don't have a claim and find out what the policy really says.

But this I-864 must have been passed by some affluent busy-bodies with an agenda. Well, screw them.

Have you actually done some research to see how often the I-864 has been used to extract money from someone? When this topic came up before I did some research and there were under a dozen total cases out of the hundreds of thousands that have been signed. They have been used as a basis to increase alimony in a *very few* successful cases. The last successful case I found was from several years ago but then I did not put much effort into it..

Yes it is a Risk - but then so is the reward

Good point. I just looked around a little yesterday, and found 10 or 12 examples. Whether that represents a trend or just some anomalies i don't know. And i don't really understand how the whole process works, but it looks like the immigrant has to have permanent resident status to file suit. And that takes a couple of years here to obtain?? (guessing after a quick look-through). So, if that's true, that gives a pretty good period of time....well kind of like novice monks wait a couple of years before they take the irrevocable vows of tonsure.

But to me, it boils down to this. After that point, i will not get divorced, i don't care how "for better or worse" it gets. And if one party is not agreeing to it(divorce), i think the lawsuit would be pretty hard to win. So yeah....i've got to be really sure about this. And i think i am. I've known her for six years, i'm in love, i'm dead sure of her love for me, so i'm mean...i'm done with the due diligence. I'm ready jump out of the plane. It's time, baby.

1. You CHOSE to bring your foreign SO to the US, which means that you must guarantee they will NOT become a burden to the US. You could've married an American and not have to face this, but since you're bringing in a foreigner, it's your job to ensure they won't need assistance from the US.

2. She's making a HUGE sacrifice coming to the US too! You think leaving your job, family, friends, everything you've ever known, behind, is easy? You sign a few papers and one day your wife will come and you'll meet her at the airport. She however, has to re-start her life: make new friends, try to get a new job (which, if you read the jobs forum here, isn't easy for foreigners), get to know your family, maybe even learn a new language.

3. Relationships are wonderful, but they involve compromise and sacrifice. If you're truly against this, move to her country, or don't marry her at all.

What i'm saying is that this is a bad law, designed to discourage marrying a foreigner. What if Russia passed a law that said:" If you move to America and marry, you can never set foot in Russia again, because you are no longer contributing to the tax base, and have left your parents as a burden to Russian society"? That would be outrageous, yes? It would be a vulgar law designed to limit the choices of Russian singles.

This i-864 isn't designed to protect the American taxpayer, believe me.

Raymondreason- You are absolutely correct. I can honestly say that for myself, signing this document will be one of the most foolish things I have ever done in my life. The things we'll do for love. Fortunately, similar to you I have been with my fiance for over 5 years... but signing this document will still be one of the stupidest things I have ever done.

I know what you're saying. I hate to sign a bad contract. But a lot of these guys and gals are right. Love is crazy. If we all waited for something that was sane and rational, we probably wouldn't be in love. ....and love trumps all.

"But this I-864 is certainly not fair. If the spouse doesn't receive alimony equal to 125% of poverty (which changes every year UP), he/she has a license to sue. I mean child support is fair, community property is fair, even alimony is basically fair when it is applied. BUT THIS IS WAY UNFAIR."

How do you construe this as being way unfair? If you bring a foreign person here and things don't work out then why should the US taxpayers have to foot the bill if your wife would happen to receive benefits? I wouldn't expect you to pay for my misfortune, so please don't ask me to pay for yours if it should happen down the road.

I have no problem with reimbursing the govt for benefits. It's the part about suing the former spouse for lifetime support. You didn't read the contract. Remember, there is a huge incentive NOT to work 40 quarters. This is a terrible law.

I'm inclined to agree with the above comment - I think there are a lot of people that probably don't think this through and while it may sound like a negative outlook, it is realistic to at least consider it. The worst scenario is pretty extreme and its important to know what the financial obligations are should this happen. It doesn't necessarily mean it is the OPs only consideration.

Yes, thanks for all the comments. I didn't mean to start a firestorm. I was/am simply in a state of shock. I haven't filled out any papers yet. I haven't even asked her to marry me, but i've known her for six years and love her and we've finally decided to do this (i still have to formally propose). I'm just doing a little research before i get started.

Look, i understand the negative reactions of many posters. I myself have always been against a prenuptial agreement. Not because i want to throw caution to the wind, but because the state has fair community property laws to protect both parties should the worst happen, and a prenuptial brings conflict....between trust and prudence...between love and wisdom. I've been through a divorce with assets and children, we had no prenuptial, and i felt the state laws really made the whole miserable process fair, at least.

But this I-864 is certainly not fair. If the spouse doesn't receive alimony equal to 125% of poverty (which changes every year UP), he/she has a license to sue. I mean child support is fair, community property is fair, even alimony is basically fair when it is applied. BUT THIS IS WAY UNFAIR.

I am Greek Orthodox and am around a lot of foreign immigrants...mainly Greeks, Serbs, Romanians, and Russians. I've always heard the big sticking point for them bringing family is "whose going to be the sponsor". Sponsors are hard to come by. Now i know why.

And it's all quite ironic, because most of the foreigners i know came here under "refugee" or "asylum" status, and are entitled to major govt support. I mean illegals get support, for crying out loud. Govt giving support justifies it's own existence. WHEN HAS THE GOVT EVER BEEN AGAINST SPENDING MONEY ON PEOPLE WHO CAN VOTE? (Маybe that's the answer...they can't vote yet???)

I can see people in love doing this. I'll probably end up doing it myself. But i am really infuriated that the govt would require this. Why would they discourage bringing a foreigner here legally?????

I mean people make mistakes. I know...i made a big one in the past and paid my dues honorable. But this kind of a law, well it encourages abuse.

If you have any doubts, don't do it!

As far as Federal Government liabilities, that only applies to some, not all, long term periodic payments. As far as support payments in the case of divorce, I-864 does not apply. However, state law does, and whether you marry the girl down the block, or the lad from down under, identical risks applies.

Here is a quote from the I-864 itself: "If you do not provide sufficient support to the person who becomes a permanent resident based on the Form I-864 that you signed, that person may sue you for this support."

Another quote from same form: "Note that divorce does not terminate your obligations under this Form I-864."

It's right there in the fine print folks. This doesn't end after 10 years, which I keep reading on this site. It ends after 40 quarters of full-time employment, deportation or death.

I ran a lumber company with many employees for years and was in numerous lawsuits. A contract like the I-864 is something an attorney will take on consignment, because it is a slam dunk.

I'm not saying i've decided not to marry my foreign girlfriend, but i realize now, there can never be a divorce. Financially speaking, this is like a student loan. It cannot be forgiven, or nullified. The marriage will be permanent.

Your comittment ends when these occur:

1) Your wife works 40 qualifying quarters here in the USA (10 years)

2) She becomes a US Citizen

3) You die.

All people who petition for a foreign fiance or wife are required to sign this affadavit and it's only purpose is to guarantee repayent to the Government of benefits paid to her (if this ever occurs).

Well, she has the option of not working and suing you for maintenance at 125% if poverty level for the rest of her life. (It's a big incentive to work a cash job, or not work.) For a single person w/o children that is + $13,000 per year. In addition, there is the repayment to govt. I've searched the internet and these lawsuits are common and not easily defeated. Most end up settling for somewhere close to $1000 / month into perpetuity. Possible they could waive the right to sue with a pre-nupt?

Plenty of people would and DO sign it. I don't suggest signing it if you think it's "giving your spouse a loaded gun" ... doesn't sound like you'd trust your spouse.

Well, I'm just trying to be realistic. 50% of marriages fail. I've been through a divorce, and believe me, we started out with the best intentions and completely trusted one another.

I'm just baffled by this I-864 Affidavit of Support. This is insane. The govt must be astounded that there are any legal immigrants into America! Who are the financial suicide volunteers who are signing these papers? Would you marry someone and sign a pre-nupt that says: "If you are ever divorced that you will pay ex-spouse $13,000 MINIMUM for the rest of their lives, and have additional liabilities with the govt? No one would get married. I mean the sponsor is putting himself / herself at a complete disadvantage. It's giving your spouse a loaded gun and saying, okay honey, when we have an argument, let's try to forget that you are holding a loaded gun. And yet people sign this form.

I am baffled. Am I missing something here?

I was going to try to bring a fiance here to the USA, but after reading this form....I'm utterly floored. This can't be right.