sachinky

Tears Of The Giraffe -- Alexander McCall Smith

Groundhog Day.

7/10

Any updates?

Air Force One.

Still awesome.

"Liberty 2-4 is changing call signs. Liberty 2-4 is now Air Force One." Shite, that gets me every-bleeding-time.

Dr. Seuss' The Lorax.

I took my kindergarteners to watch it and they love it.

When traveling on an expired GC you need to have the original NOA1 letter that extends the GC for a year to pass through immigration.

Border. Bollywood flick about the 1971 Indo-Pak war.

THE AVENGERS.

Holy smokes, it was epic. Thoroughly enjoyed myself.

Thor.

7/10.

Getting ready for The Avengers later this evening.

Rick Riordan - The Lost Hero

I spent the first 25 yrs of my life in India, and still hold an Indian passport. I travel to India at least once or twice each year. Why do you have such hard time believing that I know of four such cases? Does it bother you when someone disagrees with you? The four couples that I know are urbanites who have transcended traditional notions of marriage. The difference between isn't 24 yrs but close (BTW, SunDancer's fiance is 24yrs old, not 20 as you say. I suggest that you reread her post). I never said their situation would be deemed normal. In fact, I explicitly stated that "it is not "normal." You seem to be having trouble comprehending posts. So, the question is, what are you drinking when you are on this site?

Well, then we are in agreement. It IS rare enough to be a cultural aberration. The problem here is not of one red flag (which possibly can be countered or explained), it's when you add all of them (the FB meeting, the age gap , difference in race, the minimal time spent together in person -- all text book red-flags) up, that things don't begin to look too good and invites heavy scrutiny.

As far as what I am drinking, last night, it was margaritas (yay for Monday margaritas!). This morning, though, I promise, it's merely my morning cuppa.

Anyway, It's always so lovely to meet a fellow-countryman. Wonderful, so which part of India are you from?

You still haven't said why you could not ignore SunDancer's original post, if you didn't think she was asking for suggestions.

Because this is a free country. God Bless, America.

Because VJ doesn't charge by the sentence. God Bless, VJ. I would be much more mindful of my verbosity if that were the case, I promise.

Because I am free to post as and when I please as long as I don't violate the VJ TOS. And I haven't. (So far).

The bigger question here is, why do YOU feel the need to continue to respond to me (when ignore user button has clearly been pointed out to you)? I am clearly not asking for help or suggestions, either, when according to your comment, those are seemingly the only reason somebody should be posting in response. Why do you feel the need to defend SunDancer? I am clearly not attacking her. You could just as ignore my posts and go on your own merry way.

Again, I just want to say that what I was upset and appalled at was the way my fiance' was treated. Yes I understand there is fraud out there and they only have a short amount of time to try to ascertain if the person they are interviewing is in fact trying to commit fraud. However there is still a proper and professional way to do that. I am not saying that they should have coddled him and acted like his best friend. But at the very least they should have treated him like a human being, but instead they screamed at him and interrogated him for over 2 hours. That is what I was originally stating when I posted this topic, not that I was surprised that they issued us a 221g, As I had stated before I knew this was going to be a journey. we had discussed this numerous times. I do not pretend to be an expert on India just because I was there for 2 weeks.There is much I do not know about India, every day when I talk to my fiance' I feel like I learn something new about India. My parents brought me up to not be judgmental,racist,sexist or anything. I was taught regardless of color,age,gender,religion,ethnicity or what ever that we are all human beings. No so long ago we had slavery, but now that has been abolished. Yes there is still racism but it gets better a little each day, yes there are different cultures all over the world. But my fiance' was told flat out,"You are Indian and she is a White American it is impossible for you two to have a valid relationship". If you want to get technical yes I am an American, however I am 3/4 French and 1/4 Native American Indian. Again why should it matter what nationality any of us are? Sorry I am just rambling off a bunch of nonsense but in my opinion age,race or if either of you have been married before or have kids should not be relevant in this process. I feel if there is fraud then it is fraud and should be dealt with accordingly with the law. Many of us do not choose who we fall in love with, yet it seems like we are being singled out and punished if any of us have any kind of difference such as in my case we are not both Indian so a valid relationship is not possible, who's right is it to say that we don't have a real valid relationship? Some of you on here or anyone in India just because you don't know anyone who has a similar relationship that my fiance' and I have. I am sorry but that is just ridiculous, again we are human beings so why can't we embrace other cultures? Just because it is not the "norm"? Makes no sense to me.

I am relieved to hear that because I didn't get that AT ALL from your OP which is why I was frankly, surprised at your outrage and shock. It is wonderful that you were brought up with wonderful values and that you are not sexist, ageist, racist, judgemental etc. But to be fair, it's not your intention or sincerity that is being questioned, at the end of the day. It's your fiance's. Indian society, by and large, still operates on a traditional set-up and relatively conservative values. A lot of people ARE racist, sexist, xenophobic etc. Some will hide it well. Others wear it like a badge of honor. There's not much sense of being politically correct. There are a lot of double standards that exist. (Don't get me wrong, I love my country -- but I can recognize its social ills). The concept of love and marriage are very different than what you would find in western countries. Yada yada yada. A relationship like yours veers far too much from the conventional to be ever deemed "normal" or "acceptable." I realize this may be a hurtful statement but again, it is not my intention to offend.

[i am surely making broad, general statements, of course, I would never claim that all Indians are monolithic in their attitudes or behaviors (I know that I am very different from what an archetypal Indian would be and have been told so many times) but despite several sub-cultures (different rules for different classes, castes, religions, urban/rural areas etc), society generally operates on a similar structure.] Indian society, let's say, simply hasn't evolved enough to the point that a relationship like yours wouldn't raise eyebrows. The consulate officers know that very well. That's the presumption that they are operating from. They know that if all other factors remaining constant, you were an Indian woman, it'd be fair to say that this relationship would not exist. They are also well aware how an average Indian male's parents would likely to feel about this situation. Now it could that yours is the 1 out of 1000 where it is a bona-fide (and yes, I would peg the odds that low) relationship but that's not the kind of odds you wanna be betting on. Especially not when the stakes are so high.

As one half of an inter-racial couple who successfully made it through, I always try to dispell this notion that US consulates have it out for all inter-racial couples. If they had an all-out bias against them, then I would not be here. The three or four couples who interviewed along the same time as I did wouldn't be filing for ROC right now with me. Another thread informs me that V&C received their visa on Friday. So clearly it's not the issue of race per se, but evolution and circumstances of the relationship that come into play. Unfortunately, right now you're asking them to swallow a lot and most of it is woefully unpalateable. I have written more here on another thread regarding inter-racial couples and I don't feel like copy-pasting all of it. The link's here. http://www.visajourn...ples-post-here/

I am in complete agreement with you in that all interviewing applicants should be treated with basic courtesy and respect. My guess would be that these are intimidation tactics. Yell and berate people enough, they'll probably squeal their guts and confess. Nervousness and anxiety are likely to reveal true motives, etc. That would be my guess.

All that said, I wish you the best in moving forward. Again, I am not trying to be "mean" to you or be "judgemental" about your relationship. My comments have very little to do with you or how I personally feel about your relationship; rather more with how a consulate officer is likely to see your relationship, given the average Indian mindset, social attitudes, and cultural norms. It's fair and fine to say, "oh, all Indians don't think the same way, etc" but consulate officers are looking at the law of averages and relationships with similar sort of fraud indicators generally don't have a positive history. That's all. I hope I have explained myself adequately.

T-Bone -- Btw, thanks for your kind comments. You sure know how to make a girl blush.

I can mention at least four such cases. You can't say that it doesn't exist just because you haven't seen any such cases. It amounts to making an argument from silence.

By Indian you mean, of Indian origin? If not, where in India are you from? I am having a hard time believing that you personally know of 4 cases where a 20 year old Indian boy was engaged/married to a nearly 40 year old Indian woman who had previously had a child out of wedlock. You're telling me that this couple, according to you, would be deemed totally normal and acceptable in Indian society circles? In your experience, this is a routine case?

If so, what are you smoking? And can I get in on some of it?

You say "Not once did the OP in her opening post ask for help or suggestions. I can't find a single sentence where she says that."

If you didn't think she asked for suggestions, why did you feel the need to respond? I am sure you could have ignored her post. Were you upset that she was complaining about the CO?

No one comes to VJ to display social skills, but any interaction, even a faceless one like this, calls for respect for others.

I wish you also a nice night. As I said, none of this intended to be harsh on you. Just a suggestion that everyone deserves respect.

I was doing another good deed as a VJ Samaritan and pointing out to her the (supremely obvious) reasons that the visa was denied (since she showed zero acknowledgement of them). Because once she's done raving and ranting, recognition of those very factors that led to the denial will actually help her in the second round, should she decide to embark on Round II. B!tching to internet strangers is no doubt cathartic but in the long term, kind of pointless.

Meh, I am no champion defender of the consulate officers -- I just recognize that their job is not easy. Here's the thing, though, do you think if the CO had been rude and insulting to her fiance and still issued the visa at the end, she'd be up in arms writing letters to Congressmen? I'm guessing not. That tells me that she's p!ssed off that 1. her fiance was denied (and 2. ill-treated) as is her right. But overcoming all those red-flags with substantial evidence (no doubt an uphill task especially if they charge him with material misrep) is ultimately going to be more fruitful than letter-writing and venting. I am still not sure where I disrespected her, though. If you think about it, actually, my comments are a lot more practical, elaborate and actual in terms of advice than a lot of these supposedly helpful and supportive comments that don't offer anything else beyond "God Bless" and "how dare they!"

I appreciate that personally.

Thank-you and best of luck on your visa-journey. I'm sending good vibes that you and your fiance are reunited by Christmas Eve!

"Intelligent and literate?" - certainly. "Wise beyond her years?" I am not sure! I am sure she is thoughtful, but not in the most prudent fashion. She has a proclivity to articulate (and publish) every thought that occurs to her, whether it has any value or not.

As a person of similar intelligence, I am sure you will be able to find the "ignore user" button on your own? Might I recommend it?

I hope you give more respect for the other's feeling, this place is maintained to help the others on their issues regarding the immigration. If you had a smooth process that doesn't give you the right to judge the people in this way. I think, from your picture , you and your husband from different race, and sometimes this is an issue when it comes to the immigration. But, Nobody asked you to defend your relation. you are telling us that the CO is doing his/her job, CO's & IO's sometime do a horrible judgment. I don't think you work for the DHS or DOS, so you defend them. I can get you so many stories about officers who did a stupid, unprofessional jobs when it comes to the decisions. When this poor lady wrote about her problem , she was seeking hints or suggestions so shat she can be with her lover. and I think she is older than you and she should be able to judge her partner's intentions more than you and more than me.

My last post was more of a general musing in nature, and not specific to this case -- I thought that this thread would be the most relevant one in which to post in. Like I have said before, it personally doesn't bother me if the OP is 20 years older or younger than her fiance or how many kids she has. Again, I am not judging her or anyone's relationship. I am writing my perspective from my experience of having being an Indian for the last 25 years. I don't poke my nose in cases where the beneficiary is from another country since I cannot authoritatively speak about another nation's cultural norms. I can however do that with India. Telling the truth doesn't automatically mean judgement, I don't know why people keep insisting that I must be judging them. Anyway, whatever, think what you will.

I will stand by my comment that the scenario of a 25 year old Indian male being engaged to a 40 year old Indian woman with a child from a previous relationship would never happen. In Indian society, it IS absurd. None of my male friends, of which I have plenty, would even consider it. And they all belong to the upper echelons of society, have university degrees, liberal upbringing, they grew up in urban, cosmopolitan cities, etc.

Of course, I don't work for the DHS or DOS, so I have no idea what you're trying to say there.

I am one half of an unconventional (by Indian standards) relationship so clearly I am not saying that only Indian/Indian relationships are legitimate. We both belong to different races and we had no real issues during our immigration journey to speak of, for which I am truly grateful. But I can tell you right now that if Mr. Sachinky were a black man, our immigration journey would've been a whole different ball game. If we hadn't met in college and instead, met on Facebook. If I was ten years older than him. If he or I were Muslim. If he had a kid. If I had been previously married. You could change one variable and the outcome could have possibly been radically different.

I do not envy the job of the consulate officers, I do not think it is easy to deal with blatant fraud on a day to day basis. Do they make mistakes? I am sure they do. But on the whole, I will say that most of the cases out of India who have been denied, I too would have denied them too, based on their profile picture alone. If I, a stranger on the internet, am having doubts about the validity of your relationship, you can be rest assured that the CO (who has extensive knowledge of the land, its people, its culture and normative societal expectations) has his doubts as well. I realize that this will not be a popular opinion but then, the truth is never popular.

The problem here is that you, I or even the lady in question is not the ultimate judge of the beneficiary's intentions. The consulate officer is. All the whining and "supportive" comments in the world is not going to change that. These text-book red flags invite scrutiny for good reason.

Any updates?

Congratulations and good luck!

I wrote this post some time ago on another thread but I think it is definitely relevant here.

I can't say I have ever been made to feel unwanted or unwelcome in the 6 years I have been in the US. Of course, four of those years were spent in Ithaca, NY -- ten miles surrounded by reality, as we like to say. I now live in Albuquerque, large diverse population, also my work-place is very multi-cultural. So I can't say that I have been on the receiving end of any form or type of "hatred/xenophobia/racism/ignorance." Also, there is a huge difference between true racism and just blissful ignorance. This is just me, but I am very forgiving of ignorance. When someone asks me if I live in a hut back home or if elephants stroll down the streets, I am certainly not "hurt" or "offended" by it. I find it wonderful, actually. I am happy to explain in depths about how things work back home, our festivals, food and filmstars, and different cultural norms. Most people are fascinated and excited to learn something new, it's never been met by agression or hostility. And frankly, why should I take offense? How much do I know about Nigeria or Vietnam?

However, even if one is at the receiving end of slurs or condescending remarks, I don't think it should necessarily retard an immigrant's transition. A lot, I'd say, would depend on the attitude. If one is open to new challenges, then one has a easier time fitting in. I used to be really shy before I left home. Not self-concious or diffident, just not comfortable around new people. Once in college, I realized that if I was going to spend Friday night watching a rented DVD and eating take-out Chinese, I was going to become lonely and friendless very quickly. So I took to keeping my room-door open and often took up invitations to go to dinner or parties, even with groups of people I didn't know that well.

Another thing I've noticed is the accent. I didn't have a strong Indian accent to begin with, it was mostly neutral and most of it has been erased by four years in the U.S. However, in the beginning, when some of my American friends either giggled at or corrected my usage of a word, I didn't take offense. I laughed along with them and would say "Oh, this is how you say it here, in India we pronounce it as such-and-such." Getting defensive and clamming up doesn't do any good. Rather, having a humorous attitude about such things help. For instance, a nurse at the health center once remarked to me, "Wow, your English is remarkably impressive." So I grinned at her and said, "Why, so is yours!" And we both had a right good laugh about it.

[Another time my boss at work asked me to stamp some books. He pointed to the stamp and asked, in all seriousness, "Do they have these where you come from?" I laughed so hard I nearly peed my pants. I think HE was almost offended by HOW funny I found his question to be.]

A few other tips:

--Have your foreign SO read a basic book chronicling U.S. history. It helps immensely. I didn't like the feeling of not knowing what people were talking about with regards to slightly obscure historical figures or events. It's not easy to go from a country where you presumably know everything about its history, culture and politics to feeling like an idiot in a strange land and feeling left out of conversations. I hated feeling "stupid" as I called it. 'A People's History of the U.S.

' by Howard Zinn is a good starting point.

--Teach him American words for certain things. Like "Bell Pepper" for Capsicum. God, you should've heard me trying to order a sub from a deli my first week. Holiday/Vacation. Shower/Bath. Movie theater/hall. Bracket/parenthesis. The different types of cheeses. I didn't know diddly squat from Amul cheddar cheese until my stint at the campus food station.