Raspect

are you sure they don't belive in population control dev?

yes, they do have campaigns for responsible procreation, but there's one big problem.. the church.. when my dad started practicing medicine they'd send him to small towns to give birth control talks and whatnot.. but, padre would talk about it on sunday mass, and.. condoms in the trash.. sad..

I think you answered your own question.

As I see it people are angry at the migrants because of the govts inability/unwillingness to do diddly squat about the problem. In the meantime you have people living in poverty on the other side of the border who have, for whatever reason decided that their immediate needs supersede considerations of immigration law. That is that reality - regardless of whether you want to wag your finger in the face of a person for being "immoral", or lacking "personal responsibility".

a.k.a. lacking personal responsibilty to find work/feed their family legally.

C. works with a couple Hispanic guys. Mexican originally, but here legally as far as he knows. As I've mentioned before, it's not really a personal responsibility thing, or a greed thing. They're from Mexico, and they hope to go back, but making $1200 a month as an assistant on an oil rig is like making $12,000 back home. There are no jobs back home. It's easy enough to say 'find work legally', but Mexico has 25% underemployment in a poor nation. Working legally probably means watching your family die.

This is not an argument for open borders. But when you say, 'why don't they just work legally' it sounds a little bit like a celebrity wondering why if the Ethiopians are so hungry in the famine, why don't they just go to the grocery store.

Mexico's population doubles every 20 years, perhaps they should have smaller families... I mean if you cannot afford to feed 3 (example) children, prehaps you shouldn't HAVE 3 children. Personal responsibility...

Scroll back 2 pages, 'they' don't believe in it.

Where does Hillary stand on immigration, Dev?

And whta does Hillary have to do with this conversation about an Oklahoma law?

Oh come on, Dev - this thread went into several different directions several pages ago and it hasn't stopped you from talking about other aspects of the debate.

Seriously though, how does Hillary's stand on illegal immigration stand with you?

I am not discussing my politics here, remember? And Hillary was not brought into this until you did it. Lame attempt at stirring it up!

Yeah Mr. FancyPants, bringing up politics in this convo!!!! How dare you!!!!!!!!!!! How could you even think of asking her that. It just has no relevance. Back to the subject!! hahaha It was a definite legitamate try to see what is going on. But hate to admit it, you got shot down with pure logic. NO TALKING ABOUT POLITICS!! hahahahah what??????????????

ENRICH is the word you used? hahaha dude open your eyes! SURVIVE is the word, try to make a living w/2-4 dlls an hour and lets see if you feel the same way.

People are just too damn self centered, and it is nonesense to try to change them,

YEAH

CHARLES IS ALL CATTLE AND A LITTLE HAT WITH BIG TROUSERS FULL OF SH!T

AS WE SAY HERE IN BOBOFOOL LAND

THIS GUY IS A PURE BOBO

A PURE FOOL

AND ANYONE WHO SAYS ANY DIFFERENT, JUST READ THIS POST, MAKES YOU WANT TO CRY TO KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE THIS, AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST

IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CORNFIELD, THERE ARE 4 NORTHS, WITH ALL HAT AND NO BULL AND COW TO RIDE!!

And yes, there is nonsense to try to change them. They love hate. It is good, to some. That is why I dont try to hate, I just go the republican route and throw hate around. I figured "go the high road, be better" Then I look at the ###### that has gotten us. 6 years war, more poor people, more ultra rich people, less middle, a severely divided country and i said fucque it!! Charles is a a$$hole, and really it makes me sad saying this, as I truly think Nessa is a lawful, uprite, honorary citizen(world citizen)

Charles nothing flies with you except your ideas and ideals. It's useless to try and get you to see any other side of any argument you don't agree with. Haven't you noticed I don't try anymore? I have a million better things to do than try to convince you to have some compassion for someone in a worse situation than yourself. It's still mind boggling to me how some one can be so heartless.

Pretty amazing to me also how heartless this a$$hole is. for sure. Alot of these people. I read where you talked about dying of hunger or jumping the border. That is a easy desicion for me. But thank goodness most of the people in here would never have to think about that. That makes me happy, just sad to see how heartless some are here. No love at all. All I will say is I think Nessa is a cool person just judging from her posts here. HUMBLE, i like it.

What is post stalking? Educate me, please!

Thanks.

check out his replies, lately a majority of them have been only at goodvibes.

Yes...people are still illegally immigrating. There's your proof.

And its not just from Mexico.

oh i get it. because it still occurs we should stop trying to do anything, just throw up our hands and admit defeat?

the fence is one part of a many pronged solution. it's not meant to stop illegals 100% (unless of course we want to make it something like 100' deep and 200' high.....)

Post stalking - hmmm not really, I just see such HateVibes coming through I must address them, and anyway I got sick of talking with you, lets just say cause I read the posts of your wife, Nessa, and she definitely seems alrite and like a good person and also well lets just say there isn't so much stuff for me and you to talk about that was polite heh?

Put since you put your little mind out here to start yelling in my dirrection, I will address you, although I was not going to..... you say "because it still occurs we should stop trying to do anything, just throw up our hands and admit defeat?"

I feel like I have heard this before!

"Birds of a feather, are flocking together"

People shout 'racial profiling' because that's exactly what happens. Perfectly legal US citizens who happen to look 'wrong' are questioned disproportionately. If you were constantly required to prove your legal status, you might think twice about making such a statements.

Not if it meant ensuring our nations security, safety & Freedom.

I am all for enforcing immigration laws with all the illegals Swedes, Asians,Scottish, & Irish. profilimng is neccesary it is used in every aspect of law enforcement. Drug enforcement, homicides, Gang activity task force, & Illegal Immigrant raids. If the shoe fits!

If they are Illegal then they should be rounded up deported, if someone if Knowingly harbouring or employing thme they should also be arrested & prosecuted.

Definitely!!! GOOD VIBES!!! i love it!!!!!!

And i see you fell for their "ensure FREEDOM" line they gave you. I can see you don't mind giving up your freedoms and others, the ones that make this country so great and free, for some percieved security they have convinced you about!

I am not saying you don't deserve liberty nor security, no way, to the contrary, but you unfortunately are BADLIES with the BADVIBES

"Those who give up liberty for the sake of security deserve neither liberty nor security."

- Benjamin Franklin

I, myself, just love haters, that is all. Not even going to weigh in on this debate. I will start and stop only by saying I love people who hate!!!

another reminder for raspect.

ganja tends to make one forget things........

And make people alot more funny. Good thing you are so funny you don't need any!!

You ARE a funny guy, Remind yourself.

Take a step back, light up your cigarette, and tell yourself 3 times

"I am funny, hehehe I am funny, hehehe and people like me"

They DON't pay taxes because they hav eno social Security number, they drain the tax system and they earn money working illegally anything earned illegally should be forfieted.

More misinformation. You do not need a SS# to pay taxes. Ther IRS has issued almost 7 million Tax ID Numbers that allow workers to pay taxes. SEVEN MILLION. Now when you take the 20 million illegals and subtract out the children and stay home moms, that is almost approaching the same percent of legal taxpayers per household.

As for the rest of you would are pulling numbers out of the air about how much the illegals are costing this country, spare us that misinformation as well. There are no conclusive studies that prove either way that the country and its economy are damage or benefit from the illegal workers. In order to even attempt such a comprehesive study, you would have to determine how many are here and they have no clue...13 million...20 million....no one knows.

Sure, there are areas hit hard, like the emergy rooms. But those are offset that benefits in other areas such as labor and growth. It is just plain ignorance to claim EITHER WAY that the overall effect is positive or negative in regards to the economy.

GOODVIBES, please stop spreading your BADLIES.

or atleast change your nickname!!!!

If you did that illegaly, and got caught, you would more than likely spend mandatory jail time in Mexico and a jail in Mexico is not anything as nice as a US prison.

Stop making sense. The socialists and hardcore leftists just don't understand the OTHER SIDE of every argument.

Yeah, stop making so much sense, these leftits wouldn't understand. Maybe you two could help these crazy, wacky, loud, leftist by telling them what a jail in Mexico is like, or if you even what to start with a prison in the States, that would be fine. Enlighten these folk who just don't understand!!

there is middle ground. DO IT THE RIGHT WAY! get a visa! and don't expect the US taxpayers to support the worlds poor.

That's hilarious. The US government and by extension taxpayer keeps plenty of the world in poverty, not the other way around.

Lots of people left my county looking for a better life, and went to America. They worked hard and were welcomed becuase the country needed the labour. These days I can't just get on a boat and show up. So I don't. But I know that if I lived in the poverty that my ancestors grew up in, I would be on a boat to somewhere better, the second I could. It would just be my bad luck that I decide to do so after the land grab is over, and the people who got there first don't want anyone else to come and ruin the party.

And by the way, I wouldn't be ruining the party. Most illegal immigrants pay taxes, but cannot recieve the benefits that they bring becasue of their lack of status.

RIGHT ON!

I LIKE WHEN PEOPLE THINK WITH OTHERS IN MIND

AND NOT JUST THEMSELVES, LIKE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE

"GET A LIFE, GET A JOB, AND STAY THE HELL OUT!! BASTARDS"

MY GREATGRANDPARENTS ALSO CAME FROM IRELAND ON A BOAT.

AS YOU SAY, THIS PARTY IS TOO GOOD TO INVITE ANYONE ELSE!!

NO WAY!!

6 of the 9/11 terrorist entered uninspected through our southern border.

hahahahaah

I was wondering who would have said something like this, so I went back to look, and what do I find....

man this thread is really hurting me

GoodVibes, why you spreading such bad lies??

Why don't you make good on your nickname and start doing a little research before you start throwing you hate all over the place. ESPECIALLY when your hate is facts that you made up in your head!!

Know I know why they say LionVibes and not GoodVibes, you are making me sad, giving me straight up Bad Hate Vibes

USA is not the only country in the world where people migrate to...they migrate to all different sorts of countries for all different sorts of reasons...also USCs migrate to other countries cuz they prefer living somewhere else....people who migrate are still people (not things like some other people try to treat them) and a lot of them are good people Let´s be nice to each other

This is not about being nice or de humanization, These " good people" as you so kindly labled them are lhurting out country, compromising the security, wellbeing prosparity of our nations future.

They are a drain on the education, Health care, Housing and social services. Americans are being forced into a permanant sub middle class due to the influx of all these "good people" these "good people" like to steal from the govt,. they like to drive illegally, commit violent crimes such as rape , robbery or murder, they like to drink & drive unliscensed. These people are not "nice people" thye are a drain to the USA economy and safety.

What about all the Good people who happen to be USA citizens or leghal residents who have families to support, who have to pay for the education and health care for all these CRIMINAL ILLEGALS, USA citizens pay more for helath care often resulting in thme not being able to support their family, USA citizens & Legal residents PAY TAXES on their earnings, so social services are there for LEGAL residents or USA citizens. Children of illegals Drain the education system taking resources away lowering education standards. thes ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ALIENS or as you like to call them "good people" are doing more than simply working they are detroying America. There is Legal Migration and illegal, Thiose who chose to go about the process Illegally deserve no respect or leniancy. They deserve a swift kick in the ####### back to where they came.

JUST READ THE NICK

GOODVIBES!!!!!

NOW YOU KNOW!!!

OPINION | October 28, 2007

Editorial Observer: What Part of 'Illegal' Don't You Understand?

By LAWRENCE DOWNES

America has a big problem with illegal immigration, but a big part of it stems from the word “illegal.” As a code word for racial and ethnic hatred, it is detestable.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/opinion/...70&emc=eta1

I'd love to see people here reconsider their use of this derogatory term on this forum. Something to think about.

Those who find the word "illegal" Detesable are destetable.

The word has NO racial suggestion it desrcibes those immigrants who are in the USA Illegally who entered the USA without inspection, continue to remain in the USA Illegally. There may be some profiling or suggestion that certain population makes up the majority of illegals due to the fact that there is a majority population that accounts for the illegals in this country.

They do NOTHING positive for USA They drain the tax system, Takke from US Citizens & legal residents.

Illegals are like a cancer the more they are allowed to remain it will spread detroying everything it is path.

Immigration needs to enforced to the fullest extent of the Law. That means deportation, fines ect. NO benefits for those who chose to willingly break federal and state laws no hand outs no leniancy they are criminals and derserve nothing more than a swift kick in the ####### back to where they came from.

I saw the nickname Goodvibes, and of course that is what I am looking for, so I read on, of course, tired of all the hate that is consuming this post. And what do I see, nothing but goodvibes!!!!!

- NOTHING positive

- are like a cancer

- detroying everything

- NO benefits

- derserve nothing

- kick in the #######

That is exactly the pure POSITIVITY and GOOD VIBES I was looking for

I, myself, just love haters, that is all. Not even going to weigh in on this debate. I will start and stop only by saying I love people who hate!!!

To one of the funniest Republicans I've known....Happy Birthday, Brother!

jumbo shimp

tight slacks

new classic

act naturally

funny republican

advanced beginner

alone together

big baby

Gary C is the best!!

besides the others, but then he is close!

He cares alot about others, if caring for others means caring about yourself only!!

No need for personal attacks...he's a good man with strong convictions, regardless of whether you agree with his politics or not.

Yes sir, I do agree with you that I made a personal attack, and that there is no need for it. That is really why I have made an effort not to come to VJ very often and post. Cause sometimes I engage in personal attacks and it is just no right. I am sorry for that, and I agree with your advice.

The only thing I am not so sure I agree with is he is a good man. Of what I have read from his convictions, that I doubt. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt here, and There is NO need for personal attacks, which I use too often.

Gary C is the best!!

besides the others, but then he is close!

He cares alot about others, if caring for others means caring about yourself only!!

Yes. Homeopathy.

If that is a foto of you, and yes, I am imagining that it is.

I would think about a chiropracter for the back and a physical trainer

YES

I do find this word extremely offensive too

Just not proper, means people are not thinking, not reasoning in their own mind.

and to me that is very sad.

and this ARIIIT guy or girl, i am sure it is a guy, to be so silly and absent minded

you are just being very rude, you are trying to be funny, and no offense, but maybe english is not your first language, no problem at all, not even trying to persuade you not to TRY humor, but your humor is not translating at all in English.

BUSH IS GOOD!!!

GARYLUZ AND CAROLMARC

You both are not very nice people. Not at all!!!

Well instead of having her leave

and waiting and all the uncertainty with the things you described about taxes , why not get married to her now, and then she wont have to leave, and can stay with you, and then for the AOS you will be making enough

I am not sure where exactly to be able to help you fully

but if I remember correctly, there is a sample of the bank letter, under the GUIDES section.

if not there, there is a sample letter for sure somewhere on the site. Maybe it is under supporting evidence or I-134 not quite sure. BUt it is there

I will try to be a bit more helpful here.

I would have him get a letter from his employer stating when he started, that it is a full time job, what he will make, etc.

Also the last 5 paystubs is a good idea.

I also got a statement from the bank, telling of all my transactions from the last year, and how much money I have in the bank now.

He still had to pay taxes while he was a dependent, no?

If the taxes says he did not make enough, that is ok, they just want to see he paid taxes. I had to do the same, send in my tax forms saying I didnt make enough. But I did, and it was ok.

Hillary looks like a b1tch. I don't trust her either.

You sound like I drunk idiot! I don't trust her nor you!

I agree with you AlaskaOne

I do not think that immigration is fair at all

but also the reason I think it is unfair stems alot deeper than just 9/11

it has to due with the borders, which in turn equals the political system we use, well just alot alot of things

but I do agree with what you say Alaskaone