Bruce n Jen

ditto - you can't go through immigration with her - my fiancee has flown here twice on a visitor's visa - it really is a non-issue coming here.

I got word today that our paperwork moved from the NVC to the consulate in Joburg, South Africa. Is there any advice about dealing with this consulate other than what is on this site? Thanks in advance. I really hope everyones petitions are moving fast!

I have no info but I'm curious to hear what others post

Here's an interesting inteview report, concerning finances. Note the Consular post.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=44244&hl=

Finally O just gave her everything and she picked through it and tossed back the rest in a messy pile. She took the evidence of relationship photos, the I-134s, the DS-156, DS-156k, DS-230 part II, passport photos, birth cert, and police cert. She didn't accept the letter from my employer, my statement about finances, the extra stuff attached to the I-134 for me and for co-sponsor. (Which pissed me off because I carefully put it together to paint a better picture of the financial situation than just my tax return from last year shows!) She also gave him a DS-157 to fill out, but we had already filled it out, which was good, so O noticed that and turned it in.

...they will be able to issue the visa by Friday, they say

Sorry, but I have to laugh at that - we worry and go through so much to make it just right. That's why I've been persistent on this issue.

Not if you have personal accident insurance.

Cass (bebop the great)

AND you lose 2 weeks pay.

Cass, you can certainly do as you wish on this issue - but I would not put all your hopes on this insurance issue. It has no cash value, it's not something you'd put on a bank loan etc. It is not an asset. I think you're fishing. Good luck!

You're not amassing medical bills on top of those lost wages.....better a co-payment and deductible than the full bill.

A simple trip to the e.r. is around $600.00 to start without any tests, nevermind a catastrophic event.

HUH! I don't get your point at all.

Say you make $2000 per month. You're out of work 2 weeks, so you only get paid $1000. How ya gonna make up the missing $1000? Duh? Forget the bills, where ya going to get the missing $1000? Sheesh, this is simple math.

the point i was able to gather out of this debate is this;

you can not pay your rent/mortgage/car payment with health insurance benefits. however where there is none and a serious illness or injury occurs the cost can be catastrophic and the affect of that catastrophic event would significantly hinder ones ability to payrent/mortgage/car payment. the presence of insurance indicates the potential for a more secure financial picture overall.

HUH? seems to be a contradiction. Ok, you say you can't pay bills with health insurance benefits. Agreed. Then you say a catastrophic event will hinder the ability to pay bills. And you conclude the insurance indicates a more secure financial picture? I don't think so.

Let's see: you have a so-called catastrophic event, you're out of work in the hospital for 2 weeks. Great, your medical insurance pays the bills, oh but you have deductibles and co-payments, AND you lose 2 weeks pay. How are you in a better financial picture????? You have half your monthly income to pay the same monthly bills.

brucejg,

I do think that these things would be far down on the list of financial resources. But I also think - again - that for the right person, at the right time, and in the right place, it could be something that would tip the balance if the situation is on the edge. That's all. Don't read more into it than I've written.

Cass did not provide any information about her situation, and even if she had provided detailed information I could not begin to guess how the particular consular officer her fiance will face might decide. She asked if the information would give a fuller picture of her financial situation. It will. Will it make her more likely to be seen as an acceptable sponsor? Possibly it could, but I didn't even begin to suggest that it would in her case. So what was misleading?

Yodrak

Yodrak,

My intention is the best interests of the OP and not to mislead or give false hope. And I do realize you're quite knowledgeable all around here.

However as seen by other posters I am not alone in this view. You've also quite clearly avoided the issues I've raised regarding the overall aspect of insurance in regard to a statement of financial position.

Insurance for the most part IS a BENEFIT - it has NO cash value except for whole life insurance. The UK site clearly states cash surrender value of insurance policies. That DOES NOT exist with all the other insurance benefits an employee might have. Further, an insurance benefit ONLY kicks in when an insurable incident occurs.

I don't know what your personal experience is in this area, I know we cleared up the quarterly reports issue.

I've scanned through 9 FAM to get a sense of intent - they're looking for sources of support - that IS the bottom line. Insurance benefits don't complete a financial picture - they kick in when some loss occurs - so if someone is marginal, how the heck is a non-cash generating insurance benefit going to support them?

As I've said earlier, can you pay your rent/mortgage/car payment with these insurance benefits? And I think it's off base to remotely imply it goes to a support picture no matter how much you want to stretch it. Done!

brucejg,

True.

9 FAM 40.41 Notes. A brief mention, without detail, leaving it wide open. As I wrote, the public charge determination for non-immigrants is very subjective giving a lot of leeway for the visa applicant to present and make their case.

Yodrak

Yodrak,

I've looked at 9 FAM 40.41. Yes, a brief mention, insurance policies. Yeah, maybe that's a wide open statement, but I no longer think it's a stretch - it's way off base thinking ANY/ALL insurance policies.

Gees, the whole intention is income, cash flow, available means of support. That's the issue, yet I hear no response to that.

Go look at any loan or mortgage application, or net worth form, I just did - the ONLY insurance listed as an asset is life insurance - the cash value of it, nothing else.

I respectfully disagree and feel that it is misleading to the OP -

Yodrak,

Let me update my last response. I just saw the posting with reference to the UK post, Evidence Which May Be Presented to Meet the Public Charge Provisions of the Law. So I see where insurance is referred to as a financial resource.

But, the OP said this:

"So, my first question is, what is your opinion on this? Would having my benefit information (health insurance, vision insurance, dental insurance, life insurance, long-term disability insurance, and personal accident insurance) available to paint a fuller picture be beneficial?"

and the UK site says this:

"Applicants Own Funds

An applicant who expects to be able to meet the public charge provisions of the law through personal financial resources may submit to the consular officer evidence of funds or income from one or more of the following sources:

* statement from insurance company showing policies held and present case surrender value;"

I suspect that's supposed to say "cash surrender value."

Most of the insurance the OP lists does not have surrender value, only the life insurance if it's whole life.

"cash surrender value

Definition: The amount available in cash upon cancellation of an insurance policy, usually a whole life policy, before it becomes payable upon death or maturity. also called cash value or surrender value. "

And reviewing the UK data, I still believe they are looking for liquid available cash flow.

brucejg,

Yes, it's a stretch, and I think I indicated as much when I wrote "If your income is marginal and you have little or no savings then the benefits information could possibly be the grain of sand that tips the scale in your favor." But the information is relevant, even if of little significance in most cases, and I commend Cass for thinking 'out of the box' and not wearing the vision-narrowing blinders that so many VJers seem to wear.

The evaluation of the public charge requirements for non-immigrant visas are highly subjective, not nearly as strictly defined as the requirements for an immigrant visa or adjustment of status. People who are on or close to the margin would do well to take a hard look at all of their financial resources and put forth everything they have at their disposal that could show their financial situation in a more positive light. The chances that the adjudicating officer will consider the information may be low, but the chances are zero only if the information is not presented.

In your quotation you underlined the phrases "sufficient income" and "Salary paid" - why do you neglect the option of showing "and/or financial resources"? Why do you write about "un-asked for information" when people are invited to present any and all relevant information? And insurance is a financial resource that is specifically pointed out as information that one might provide for meeting the public charge requirements.

Yodrak

We could debate this ad nauseum - what I'm looking at is how they might - if a question says what it says, all the fluff in the world doesnt' answer the question. The only insurance benefit I have that could be construed toward this intent is my disability income insurance on my ability to practice my profession. Anything else is not going to pay my mortgage, debts or feed me. Yeah, some benefits may be listed on a W2 but that's vapor money.

Where is insurance mentioned as a financial resource? unless I'm misinterpreting your reference.

I would take financial resources as other means for you to have liquid cash - that are totally under your control, ie savings, a trust, an inheritance. I'm sure there are some who are retired with no job or salary at all, yet financial resources such as retirement accounts, social security, pensions are readily available for support.

brucejg,

Thanks for correcting me on that.

Yodrak

Yodrak - no problem, it's a group effort here - glad to help....

You haven't been making quarterly reports and estimated tax payments to the IRS?

Yodrak

Quarterly reports and estimated tax payments aren't going to document income. I do these actions for my practice and personal income. That would not show my present income for any real purposes. What would is below. The only quarterly reports are for paying withholding taxes on employees.

As for documenting 2006, an accountant should be able to produce some documentation, ie balance sheet, profit and loss statement. Those would be required if applying for a mortgage or some other loans.

NOA2 or Visa?

either way - congrats!!!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Judging by the timeline and "petition" I'd say it's NOA2 !!!!

Boy this is all a real stretch. Read the language of the form: "As the sponsor, you must show you have sufficient income and/or financial resources to assure that the alien you are sponsoring will not become a public charge while in the United States." and "Statement of your employer on business stationery, showing: 2. Salary paid;"

The intent is that you have cash flow, INCOME. Insurance is not cash flow in the main, true disability insurance can be, but usually there can be a 30-90 day wait. Insurance is a benefit, NOT income and not a salary.

You're not answering the question per the form, and adding in un-asked for information. Let's see, if I were loan collections officer and I needed you to make payments, are you going to offer me your insurance benefits?

I don't think so.

Do I need to use an attorney for filing/processing the K-1 visa for my daughter? I have interviewed couple of immigration lawyers and asked them to explain about their service during this process. All of them had mentioned that they have lot of experience with K-1 visa and they will guide us through the whole process. Is $750 - $2000 is justifiable for this process?

I am new to this web site/group. It seems like this web site has all the detail steps needed for the K-1 visa process. What extra help that a lawyer will provide? Has anyone self filed and then used a lawyer later because they found the process was too tedious? I would like to know your experience and the guidance.

Please give me your firm opinion with some explanation and please don’t tell me that it is up to me to use a lawyer or not.

Thanks,

Kabilan.

Do it yourself. All the info you need is in the guides and tips. Unless you have a complicated situation an attorney is going to do no more or less than fill out the forms, and you can do that yourself.

Finally I am back in the good'ol USA. Had a great time in Bangkok. I decided to upload some of my PRE-wedding photos in case anyone wants to take a look. We are planning to have our NON LEGALLY BINDING CEREMONY ONLY (hehe) in Bangkok on the 17th of February.

Everything looks good, we are anxiously awaiting our interview date.

(The photos are of a princess and a frog.. hehe!)

Bill

Gee I wondered when you'd get back!!!!! Welcome back!

My opinion, you give them what they ask for, the form instructions are quite clear. That's what I'm doing.

I'm self-employed and I'm doing A and C. And I have my own practice so it's simple for me.

I don't see where doing as you say goes to any of the areas below.

As the sponsor, you must show you have sufficient income and/or financial resources to assure that the alien you are sponsoring will not become a public charge while in the United States.

Evidence should consist of copies of any or all of the following documentation listed below that are applicable to your situation.

Failure to provide evidence of sufficient income and/or financial resources may result in the denial of the alien's application for a visa or his or her removal from the United States.

The sponsor must submit in duplicate evidence of income and resources, as appropriate:

A. Statement from an officer of the bank or other financial

institution where you have deposits, giving the

following details regarding your account:

1. Date account opened;

2. Total amount deposited for the past year;

3. Present balance.

B. Statement of your employer on business stationery,

showing:

1. Date and nature of employment;

2. Salary paid;

3. Whether the position is temporary or permanent.

C. If self-employed:

1. Copy of last income tax return filed; or

2. Report of commercial rating concern.

D. List containing serial numbers and denominations of

bonds and name of record owner(s).

As you can see from my timeline the Texas Service Center received my I-129 application on November 11. I understand that TSC sends the K1 packet to California Service Center. My check has not cleared, I haven't received my first NOA and it's already been 2 weeks! I've noticed others send theirs to the TSC and it's transfered to CSC and they recieve their NOA1 about a week later. I've also read in other posts that some people mailed in their packets and somehow some Service Centers never recieve them, im just worried that my packet is floating around somewhere and that the CSC never received it. My nerves will rest once I know that the CSC has recieved my packet but until then how can I find out if it's been transfered to the CSC?

Look at my timeline too - my NOA1 date was 2 weeks from mailing and received the receipt a few days later.

Coming to the U.S. with a tourist visa with the intention of marrying a US citizen, is visa fraud. If a person comes to the U.S. with a tourist visa, then meets and marries a U.S. citizen without any prior intent, that is a different matter.

It is not illegal, nor visa fraud to come to the US to marry on a tourist visa. The issue is only the immigrant intent.

LOL, how many times have you responded with that statement? I'm with you!

I hope a joke won't bother you Ed,

I see you are a lawyer and you got 2 separate RFE's on your own K-1. Perhaps you should have asked one of us to do it for you so it would be quicker!!!!!!1

LOL

Thanks aussiewench

While I get the point of what you posted - I still see that the so-called fraud route is not quite blatantly refused or penalized. What I mean is you can deceptively get in the US, apply for adjustment of status, stay here, and potentially get approved, thereby forego the arduous waiting that those of us do who are correctly following procedures of the K1 visa. Yes, you can potentially get denied and deported, but is it that risky? I don't know. And I'm not advocating that. It's just frustrating to see us wait and petition and follow the rules while others can shortcut that route another way.

What your acquaintance did could be found to be "wrong". She entered the US on a non-immigrant status with the intent to immigrate. Whether that is fraud, illegal or a material misrepresentation I can't say. What happens next, or inthe future for them depends very much on what exactly happened at the border/inspection, and IF it will be brought up in their AOS interview. Sometime, it doesn't work out.

A very high percentage of AOS cases are adjustments from other than a K visa.

Coming to the US to get married is not illegal. People do it every day. The issue is always about the intent to stay and adjust status.

You will sleep well at night for the rest of your lives. Their case is their case.

I certainly agree it's better to do the right thing. And I have no dispute with it being deceptive coming here with the intent to marry and stay -

but what's the law say? I'm not questioning all the responses on VJ about the fraud issue, I'm just curious what the INA says in writing on it.

If she gets a tourist visa and goes to the US with the intent of getting married, isn't that visa fraud?

It is not illegal, nor fraud to enter the US with intent to marry.

So I hear this both ways, it's fraud, it's not fraud - what does the law say?

I'm really curious because I know of another couple, an acquaintance of my fiancee, where the non-USC came here on a visitor's visa fully with the intent to stay and get married, and did, and is now merrily getting her work permit, advance parole, and interview for green card while we're waiting patiently for the K1 - so much for doing it the right way. What's the legal on all this?

Your getting a raw deal Dean. I hope your congressman or senator can help. Have you sent them my list? That helped to show them that I was left behind and got some action.

That's a GREAT idea Gary.

Dean, you should consider giving them proof like that of the disparity, especially the ones approved after your NOA1!

Hi! Quick question. When they ask you to submit a copy of your NOA2 for AOS, do you give a photocopy or the original NOA2? Thanks.

you answered your own question - a copy LOL

thanks for all the help!