jpaula

I nugget of wisdom at last. Let's take a breath and highlight it:

Intelligent people dont have to resort to personal attacks.

Intelligent people dont have to resort to personal attacks.

Intelligent people dont have to resort to personal attacks.

Intelligent people dont have to resort to personal attacks.

Intelligent people dont have to resort to personal attacks.

Then perhaps the best way to show your own intelligence and your own sense of self is just to stop.

If anyone wants to know about Algerian history there are plenty of reliable sources to be found, but I think we can all agree--those of us interested in Algerian history and those who could give a damn--that the Algerian-off that goes on here informs no one. Nor is it flattering to anyone. So, again, I ask you to stop.

Algerians and Palestinians are two completely different cultures. Algeria managed to free itself from its occupiers . Palestine did not. They are a completely different group of people with strikingly different lifestyles, food culture and history

Are you actually attempting to compare these two entirely different conflicts in any way, shape or form -- or even more outrageous, trying to insinuate that the outcomes of these two conflicts are in any way due to differences in "culture" ???????????

Lawdy somebody hold me back......

I don't think that is what she is trying to say. Flip the causality. I think she explains alot of Algerian culture by way of looking at the fight for independence and the civil war. Fair enough. The conclusions reached? Well those are debatable. Endlessly it seems.

W, For your own good I am asking you to stop. Whatever valid points you may have buried in your posts, you lose all credibility when you start lecturing a woman whose family is from Jijel what life was like in the civil war or how political violence effects culture.

Wahrania,

I do not think anyone is disputing your experience in Algeria or with your Algerian husband's family. The problem arises when you take that, add selective bits of Algerian history, and then make absolute statements about what Algerian culture is. The fact that Algeria is a Muslim country does not mean that no one is Christain or Jewish nor that Algerian men will not marry Christains or Jews or even allow their children to be named or raised as such. The fact that some women cover does not mean that everyone does nor that it is required by law or by culture. The fact that it is a Muslim country does not mean that all women are virgins when they marry.

Norms vary by family, by neighborhood, by city. Further, norms do not define every individual. There are many ways to live in Algeria (or anywhere) and for those of us who have lived there, we had to find a life that worked for us. It is absolutely possible, if not always easy, to do so. In a year and a half of living there and traveling extensively I covered only once to observe a Mawlid ceremony in Ghardaia. I wore Western clothes daily including to work where all of the other teachers (all Algerian, most married) and almost every one of the students (all Algerian) did the same. I walked hand in hand with my husband on the beaches of Oran watching Algerian women in bikinis walk by. I went to bars with my husband and his friends where we talked about politics and religion. I also sat with the women and made cous cous and ate cookies. I was accepted into his family even though I am not Muslim.

There is huge variety within almost any culture and Algeria is no exception. Were anyone to decide to live there (which I think was the original question) they could forge a life that suited them while still being respectful of local culture. There may be norms, but Algeria (by law and by vitrue of a very diverse and cosmopolitan past) allows much more variance from the norm than most Muslim countries described in this forum. It may be much more difficult with some families that others, but that is not a statement on Algerian culture but on the difference among families.

Your choice to marry a conservative man and to live a conservative Algerian life is your choice, not a requirement by any definition--legal, cultural or other. It is an idividual experience. Both your Algeria and Sarah's Algeria (and mine for that matter) exist. They exist simultaneously--a fact that shows the very idea of culture to be much more complex than you declarations allow.

There are also often basic inheritence laws that cannot be overwritten by the equivilant of a will or prenup. I assume this varies by country, so look for Egypt specific info.

edited to add: I cannot imagine that Egyptian laws could apply to anything except assets held in Egypt.

Oh, there is one of those too. These have floated around OT as well.

Source: http://www.islamicvoice.com/september.99/women.htm

HOW TO MAKE YOUR WIFE HAPPY by Sheikh Mohammed Abdelhaleem Hamed.

Warm Reception

After returning from work, school, travel, or whatever has separated you:

begin with a good greeting.

Start with Assalamau ‘Aliaykum (peace be with you) and a smile. Salam is a Sunnah and a du’aa for her as well.

Shake her hand and leave bad news for later!

Talking Sweet

Choose words that are positive and avoid negative ones.

Give her your attention when you speak or she speaks.

Speak with clarity and repeat words if necessary until she understands.

Call her with the nice names that she likes, e.g. my sweet-heart, honey, saaliha, etc.

Become Friends

Spend time talking together.

Spread to her good news.

Remember your good memories together.

Games and Distractions

Joking around & having a sense of humour.

Playing and competing with each other in sports or whatever.

Avoiding prohibited (haram) things in your choices of entertainment.

Help her in the Household Chores

Doing what you as an individual can/like to do that helps out, especially if she is sick or tired.

The most important thing is making it obvious that you appreciate her hard work.

Consultation

Specifically in family matters.

Giving her the feeling that her opinion is important to you.

Studying her opinion carefully.

Be willing to change an opinion for hers if it is better.

Thanking her for helping with her suggestions.

Visiting Others

Choosing well raised people to build relations with. There is a great reward in visiting relatives and pious people. (Not in wasting time while visiting!)

Pay attention to ensure Islamic manners during visits.

Not forcing her to visit those she does not feel comfortable with.

Conduct During Travel

Offer a warm farewell and good advice.

Ask her to pray for him.

Ask pious relatives and friends to take care of the family in your absence.

Give her enough money for what she might need.

Try to stay in touch with her by phone, e-mail, letters, etc..

Return as soon as possible.

Bring her a gift!

Avoid returning at an unexpected time or at night.

Take her with you if possible.

Financial Support

The husband needs to be generous within his financial capabilities. He should not be a miser with his money (nor wasteful).

He gets rewards for all that he spends on her sustenance even for a small piece of bread that he feeds her by his hand (hadith).

He is strongly encouraged to give to her before she asks him.

Smelling Good and Physical Beauty

Following the Sunnah in removing hair from the groin and underarms.

Always being clean and neat.

Put on perfume for her.

Guarding Privacy

Avoid disclosing private information such as bedroom secrets, her personal problems and other private matters.

Aiding in the Obedience to Allah

Wake her up in the last third phase of the night to pray “Qiam-ul-Layl” (extra prayer done at night with long sujood and ruku’ua).

Teach her what you know of the Qur’an and its tafseer.

Teach her “Dhikr” (ways to remember Allah by the example of the prophet) in the morning and evening.

Encourage her to spend money for the sake of Allah such as in a charity sale.

Take her to Hajj and Umrah when you can afford to do so.

Showing Respect to her Family and Friends

Take her to visit her family and relatives, especially her parents.

Invite them to visit her and welcome them.

Give them presents on special occasions.

Help them when needed with money, effort, etc..

Keep good relations with her family after her death if she dies first. Also in this case the husband is encouraged to follow the Sunnah and keep giving what she used to give in her life to her friends and family.

Training and Admonition

This includes

The basics of Islam

Her duties and rights

Reading and writing

Encouraging her to attend lessons and halaqahs

Islamic rules (ahkam) related to women

Buying Islamic books and tapes for the home library

Admirable Jealousy

Ensure she is wearing proper hijab before leaving house.

Restrict free mixing with non-mahram men.

Avoid excess jealousy. Examples of this are:

;

1- Analysing every word and sentence she says and overloading her speech with meanings that she did not intend.

2- Preventing her from going out of the house when the reasons are just.

3- Preventing her from answering the phone.

4- etc.

Patience and Mildness

Problems are expected in every marriage so this is normal. What is wrong is excessive responses and magnifying problems until a marital breakdown.

Anger should be shown when she exceeds the boundaries of Allah (swt), by delaying prayers, backbiting, watching prohibited scenes on TV, etc..

Forgive the mistakes she does to you (See item 17).

How can you best correct her mistakes?

1- First, implicit and explicit advice several times.

2- Then by turning your back to her in bed (displaying your feelings).

Note that this does not include leaving the bedroom to another room, leaving the house to another place, or not talking with her.

3- The last solution is lightly hitting (when allowable) her. In this case, the husband should consider the following: - He should know that Sunnah is to avoid beating as the Prophet (e) never beat a woman or a servant.

- He should do it only in extreme cases of disobedience, e.g. refusing intercourse without cause frequently, constantly not praying on time, leaving the house for long periods of time without permission nor refusing to tell him where she had been, etc..

- It should not be done except after having turned from her bed and discussing the matter with her as mentioned in Qur’an . - He should not hit her hard injuring her, or hit her on her face or on sensitive parts of her body.

- He should avoid shaming her such as by hitting her with a shoe, etc.

Pardoning and Appropriate Censure

Accounting her only for larger mistakes.

Forgive mistakes done to him but account her for mistakes done in Allah’s rights, e.g. delaying prayers, etc..

Remember all the good she does whenever she makes a mistake. Remember that all humans err so try to find excuses for her such as maybe she is tired, sad, having her monthly cycle or that her commitment to Islam is growing.

Avoid attacking her for the bad cooking of the food as the Prophet (e) never blamed any of his wives for this. If he likes the food, he eats and if he doesn’t then he does not eat and does not comment.

Before declaring her to be in error, try other indirect approaches that are more subtle than direct accusations

Escape from using insults and words that may hurt her feelings.

When it becomes necessary to discuss a problem wait until you have privacy from others.

Waiting until the anger has subsided a bit can help to keep a control on your words. (Translated by Abu Tallah)

I think it is one thing to become familiar with the Qur'an, but for the average Muslim to understand and implement the Sunnah to determine Sharia is quite another feat, and Sharia is comprised of both the Qur'an and Sunnah. People dedicate lifetimes studying Sunnah, there are different methodologies in approaching Sunnah texts, and there is no consensus as to what should constitute Sunnah when it comes to Sharia, as is the case of ahadith, which has its own science behind it. I think everyone should strive to continually learn, but an expectation of Muslims to understand and implement Sharia on their own without reliance on scholars is like expecting them to administer health care to their families without medical doctors.

ETA: Obviously a reliance on scholars carries its own responsibilities, and fly-by-night internet "scholars" should be no one's choice.

I understand that and perhaps made it all sound too easy. I just get really frustrated with the on-line scholar offs that discussions often devolve into. This applies rathern starkly to the debates about Islam here, but also to other realms, my own being discussion of political theory and policy. No matter what we have to take some responsibility for our own judgements, if not of the Quran and Sunnah directly then for which scholars we rely upon and why (as you noted).

There is no way to avoid having to think for one's self. I think we do great harm--in any religion, in politics, in relationships--when we abdicate our opinions and beliefs to others rather than take responsibility for ourselves. While never easy, our capacity to learn and to reason requires of us the time and effort. I worry that we have lost the filter that lets us sort through information and seperate opinion from reasoned argument. Modern life gives us more info and opinions than we care to keep up with, but less and less by way of thought and reason. Sometimes I wonder if the internet hasn't done the human mind more harm than good.

That is my melancholic Sunday evening take on the state of the world

sarra you are out of this cause she say she only go by sharia and sharia is quraan say regarldless fiqh.

so if we by sharia no excuse and the one who steal has to cut his hand

the one who kill have to be killed regarless human rights thats if we go by sharia as it is

u got me?

Do you not believe in following the Quran rather than fiqh when the two disagree? Or, how does one go about weighing two scholarly opinions that differ (for example, the ones you posted at the beginning of this thread regarding Muslim women and non-Muslim men) if not by looking to sharia? She is nowhere claiming that fiqh is in and of itself wrong; she is claiming that it is often not following sharia and that when it does not, sharia must be primary. All the more important combined with the observation that fiqh has recently been overrrun by salafi scholars with a sexist base and a big wad of cash to spread that base. But, most importantly, Muslims need to be self-educated and understand their own Book rather than relying on scholars to do it for them. When you can post on-line fatwa explaining why zina is punishable by death by stoning, but can not show the same in sharia, and then use this to support the practice, I cannot help but agree with her vehemently.

You can scholar shop and find support for anything you wish to find. At some point, you have to rely on your own knowledge to understand (rather than repeat) their arguments and to be able to decide for yourself.

If Islam today were judged solely on fiqh, I am afraid it would appear the misogynist violent religion it is often accused of being. It is people like VW, who force themselves to go to the source and understand the compexity of a rich religion and who then are able to speak with knowledge (if not always diplomacy ) for themselves, who are able to speak for a beautiful, if rigorous, religion. If there were more of them here, perhaps this discussion could be enriched by intelligent debate for I am sure that all do not agree on most points. So while answers may not be black and white or even easily derived, I just cannot understand arguing against self-education and original thought.

I speak here of marriage in general, not only of yours, but it does bring up important points.

My point is that for this discussion it does not matter why the judge will not register it. What matters is whether you can be married in the eyes of the political authority under which you live and that is responsible for enforcing laws--in this case Egypt and the US. The US, it seems, does not recognize it as a legally binding marriage. Does Egypt? What is the difference between it being recognized by the court and it being registered by the judge (who is, I persume, an agent of the court)? Could you take a marriage contract that was not registered and use it to obtain inheritence rights in the case of the death of a spouse? Is a child born of this marriage considered legitimate under Egyptian law? Is the father held to his parental responsibilities?

I really do encourage people to go back and read the threads where this was discussed and to try to do so without defensiveness, but with an attempt to understand what the arguements are. I think they are importnat and it is unfortunate that they are often burried under shouting, name calling and chest pounding.

You are comfortable with the way you were married and you do not have to defend it to me. But, I think the question with these "Islamic" marriages is whether the contract is enforcable. If the judge will not register it (for whatever reason--we can all agree that he should, but if he will not...) then how is the contract enforced? Because if the contract cannot be enforced then her rights are not protected. And, I do not fault anyone for pointing that out to people. Women should know their rights--for themselves and their children--and if they choose to overlook them, they should do so with knowledge of what it means.

There is a difference between saying "this is alright with me" and "this is alright according to Islam." Those two approaches require very different justifications and I think they are often confused in discussion here.

VW can speak quite well for herself, but I have read these threads over and over and I see it totally differently. She is not attacking anyone for getting married in whatever way they did. She is contesting the insistance that all that is required for a marriage to be Islamic is for it to take place in a mosque with two witnesses. She is insiting on the legal protections required and is frustrated that women are being talked out of these protections. She has outlined over and over what is required for an Islamic marriage and why. No one ever refutes this in an intelligent way. Saying it is hard, even impossible, to get married in Egypt does nothing to refute what she claims is required for a marriage to be Islamic. If people disagree they are welcome to ignore her, not care what she says. Or they can explain why they believe otherwise. But, that is not what happens. Instead, we get cut and paste and personal attacks. What is a shame to me is that there can be no intelligent debate or discussion.

I gave them originals of everything except the tax returns which were copies. Ask them, but it makes sense to me that they would want an origial signature. I found DHL reliable and fast sending things to/from Algeria.

To this non-Muslim, the biggest problem with Islam as practiced today is the watering down of what is an intellectually rigorous religion and the lack of personal responsibility that accompanies this. Had I dedicted my life to studying my own religion and then watched it become the sloppy recitation of either husbands or online "scholars" that is often presented here (and, in my exererience, elsewhere as well), I would be raging mad and I would stand up to it. The fact remains that no one here except VW has explained their own beliefs with any kind of Quranic backing nor with their own reasoning. Agree or disagree, but do so with some original thought and without resorting to personal attacks. Or, we should just move on as the discussion will lead no where.

I hope everone feels free to vent if it helps them. But, I also hope no one is drawing any conclusions about their own relationship based on what is presented of others'.

Thank you julianna,

I was replying to that as well as to the entire cut and paste post regarding the lost stoning passage of the Quran.

Seriously? Again, this is someone else's argument (although giving a source would help us understand exactly who is making it). And, it is a rather strange one. Do you agree with it? Why? Why not? Does it make sense to you that there are sections of the Quran missing/lost? How do we know? How do we decide what we can add to the Quran? How valid are the rather enormous changes made in [brackets]? Are they the word of Allah? What else is missing/lost from the Quran?

there is nothing missing in Quran. it is Allah words and no one can add or remove any thing from it

it is Allah words and Allah will protect it forever

I don't think you understand the the "evidence" you are cutting and pasting. And, thus, I do not think it is worth continuing this.

Upon the testimony of four witnesses, or if the husband caught his wife in the act, he is to swear "by Allah four times that he is truthful and the fifth that Allah's damnation be brought upon him if he was lying", the adulterer and adulteress are to be punished. It is said that the wife would be given the final word and would acquit herself completely if she takes a counter-oath "swearing four times by Allah that the man is a liar, and the fifth that Allah's damnation be brought upon her if he was truthful". Those who falsely accuse chaste women are to be flogged with 80 stripes (an-Nur 24:4-10). Though adultery is mostly considered a grave sin in Islam, in certain situations Muhammad commanded his followers to commit adultery!

Much controversy has surrounded the source of the punishment for adultery. The penalty prescribed in the Qur'an is 100 stripes (an-Nur 24:2). However, Muslim jurists have made a distinction between pre-marital sex and extra-martial affairs. Some traditions say that the verse is missing from the Qur'an. The sharia rests its authority on the hadiths to prescribe the penalty of stoning for married adulterers.

Umar recalls that Stoning verse was sent down by God as part of Scripture (Qur'an):

* ``Umar in his reign as Caliph recalled that "God sent Muhammad and sent down the Scripture to him. Part of what he sent down was the passage on stoning, we read it, we were taught it, and we heeded it. The apostle stoned and we stoned them after him. I fear that in time to come men will say that they find no mention of stoning in God's book and thereby go astray in neglecting an ordinance which God has sent down. Verily stoning in the book of God is a penalty laid on married men and women who commit adultery."'' (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulullah, tr. Guillaume, p. 684) (Also, Sahih Bukhari 93.21, Muslim, Hudud 1691, Tirmizi, Hudud 8.1431, Abu Dawud 41.1, Itkan 2.34)

Umar confirm that the Stoning verse was in the Book of God.

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

..... In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam, the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.

I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession. And then we used to recite among the Verses in Allah's Book: 'O people! Do not claim to be the offspring of other than your fathers, as it is disbelief (unthankfulness) on your part that you claim to be the offspring of other than your real father.' (Sahih Bukhari 8.817)

Similar reports were recorded by Imam Ahmad in part one of his Musnad (in the Musnad of Umar under the caption of the hadith Al-Saqeefah, pages 47 and 55). Ibn Hisham recorded similar things in his Sirah of the Prophet, part 2, page 658 (second printing, 1955).

certain verses were lost, including the Stoning verse,

* ``Again, there is a tradition from A'isha, the propet's wife, that a certain chapter which now consists of 73 verses once contained no less than 200, and that when 'Uthman compiled the Quran the missing verses could not be found. One of them was called the Verse of Stoning, and is said to have contained the order to stone a man or woman who had committed adultery. It cannot be affirmed with any certainty that this verse ever formed part of the Quran; it is more likely that it was either a genuine hadith of the prophet or very early invention of one of his followers. The fact remains that this verse is said to have been part of the original Qur'an. Many early authorities say so, and what is very significant is that the first Caliphs punished adultery by stoning; this is still the penalty prescribed in Muslim law-books, whereas the Quran (an-Nur 24:2) prescribes a hundred stripes. In this case there is not sufficient evidence in favour of abrogation to claim it as proof, though it remains to be explained why, if the Quranic penalty is scourging the shari'a should decree stoning.'' (Guillaume, Islam, 2nd ed. 1956, pp. 191)

Some Muslims have tried to explain this away by saying that God's book may not necessarily mean the Qur'an, but simply "the ordinance of God". It is not clear, however, whether such usage are common. One need to ask, what other God's book are there, and is everything binding (as in the case of adultery)?

``'Although Zina covers both fornication and adultery, in the opinion of Muslim jurists, the punishment laid down here applies only to unmarried persons. As for married persons, their punishment, according to the sunnah of the Prophet is stoning to death.'

The recorded tradition states:-

Abdullah bin Umar says that a group of Jews came to the Prophet and said, "A man and a woman of our nation have comitted adultery." The Prophet asked them, "What does the Torah says about pelting stones?" They replied, "We humiliate them and give publicly to their evil act and punish them by flogging." Abdullah bin Salam said, "You are telling a lie. Bring the Torah which also ordains pelting stones." So they brought the Torah and one of them having covered his hand the verse relating to the pelting of stones read out the verse preceding it and the verse after it.

Abdullah bin Salam said, "Take off your hand." And the verse about pelting stones was seen clearly. The Jew said, "Abdullah bin Salam is right. The verse about pelting stones is there." Then the Prophet directed that both the committers of adultery be stoned to death and they met their fate. (traditions collected by Muslim and Bukhari) (In Yusuf Ali's commentary no. 2954 on verse an-Nur 24:2)

"Ubadah ibn Samit reported that the Prophet said, "Take orders from me. Yes take from me orders. The Exalted Allah has fixed a procedure for women. If a virgin commits adultery with a bachelor, she should be punished with one hundred flogs and exiled for one year, and if a married man commits adultery with a married woman, then both of them should be punished with one hundred flogs each and both should be stoned to death." (Muslim)

Other hadiths on stoning for adultery, Sahih Bukhari 2.413, Sahih Bukhari 8.819, Sahih Bukhari 8.805, Sahih Bukhari 8.814.

Khalifites believe that the punishment should be whipping, as given in an-Nur 24:1-10, not stoning as prescribed in the hadiths, following that of the Bible.

Seriously? Again, this is someone else's argument (although giving a source would help us understand exactly who is making it). And, it is a rather strange one. Do you agree with it? Why? Why not? Does it make sense to you that there are sections of the Quran missing/lost? How do we know? How do we decide what we can add to the Quran? How valid are the rather enormous changes made in [brackets]? Are they the word of Allah? What else is missing/lost from the Quran?

W, I am very glad to hear your good news and hope you have more to come. Take care of yourself and the baby.

It is madness. And, it is a madness that is allowed to continute because people rely on scholars to understand their own religion. As I understand it, stoning is not found on the Quran. It is supported by hadith that contradict the Quran. Please, show me where in the Quran is it stated that stoning is punishment for anything? What does the Quran say is punishment for Zina?

Why is it that all of these discussion devolve into long scholar block quotes? Can no one other than VW show their own reasoning and knowledge of their own beliefs? It gets to be rather maddening. And, it is repeated here all too often. Let's spare ourselves another go round. Do a search for the previous posts on interfaith marriages. There are many. I think VW has laid out a pretty good case. Read it and judge for yourself. Or don't. But, please, please, please, long block quotes from scholars get really tiring.

Her position:

http://www.senate.gov/~clinton/issues/nati...srael/index.cfm

An article on Clinton's stance:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/200...el-problem.html

McCain: http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/8458

Gotta run, but there is alot out there and it seems worth reading everyone's policy. To think that Obama is taking a stance outside of the norm for US political hopefuls these days misses the point.

And Clinton's policy on the issue? McCain's?

Have you called the Consulate? Ask them if you can move forward with the CR1. They are good about answering questions.

Some people are able to marry without a problem in Algeria while some people are given a never ending runaround. Most laws there are applied capriciously so it really can be hit or miss. Just because others (but not everyone) have had a difficult time does not guarantee that you will. Ask your fiance if he knows what papers are required and if he is willing to do the runaround to try. If he is, I say it is worth a try. Were it me, the possibility of a CR1 would be worth the effort.

If I had listened to what everyone told me about how hard it was to get Algerian residency I would have been stuck flying back and forth to the US to renew my visa every three months. But for me, once we gathered all the papers required, residency was no problem at all. Didn't pay anyone a penny, was treated kindly by the police who interviewed me and got my residency quickly.

So, if you ask me, there is no harm in trying. What is the very worst case scenerio? You can't get married in Algeria so you go back and file for the K1.

I know it seems like one way would be cheaper, but do not try to find rhyme or reason in ticket pricing.

Nine hundred dollars seems about right. Of course, playing with dates may get you a better price. It also (mysteriously) might be cheaper if you price rt tickets and then just plan on not using the return. From San Francisco I've paid 800. I've paid 1400. Again, no rhyme or reason. Have him call the Lufthansa office in Algiers and see what price they give him. Or Air France, but they often didn't answer the phone when I tried--finally had to go in in person. Honestly, if anyone will sell you a ticket for 900 I would go for it. I would guess prices go up as spring drags into summer.

You can, if you choose, buy a ticket on line and then have him go in to either of these offices where they can print him a paper ticket. Just e-mail him the confirmation, have him print it out and bring it to show them.

Lufthansa office in Alger:

No. 6, Rue Emir El Khatabi, Centre d'Alger

tel: +213 (021) 643 643

lufthansa.algerie@dlh.de

Air France's website is being slow at the moment, but you can find the Algiers office contact on it.

I think he is saying that an airline won't sell an Algerian a ticket unless they know he has a visa. This hasn't been the case for me. They won't let him on the plane unless he shows the visa, but I have never had to show anything to buy a ticket, only give a passport number and tell them he has a visa. Call Lufthansa and Air France and see what they tell you.

Unrelated, but given the current exchange rate, if you have the option of paying dinar rather than USD for the ticket it might be a good thing.