OriZ

22 hours ago, EM_Vandaveer said:

I get where you're coming from but it's not ethically, morally or legally right to do that. We can't stoop to their level. Any person in our captivity: needs to get fed, be able to sleep and be given medical attention. If we want to kill them, we need to have a proper trial first.

I'm not referring necessarily to the ones arrested since Oct 7. Although those as well once they have a trial. But I was specifically referring to those already with lengthy prison sentences. Change the law or their sentences if you have to, I'm generally not a fan of capital punishment but for terrorists? Sure.

On 12/25/2023 at 1:46 AM, TBoneTX said:

She needs to claim victim status immediately.

You need to claim victim status on the basis of deficient melanin.

Problem solved.

I have no better solution; however, this would exponentially increase anti-Israel sentiment worldwide.

That would say something now wouldn't it. 

Executing israeli civilians in captivity = good

Executing terrorists in prison = bad

On 12/13/2023 at 3:17 AM, EM_Vandaveer said:

I'm for changing the law on death penalty in Israel: right now it only applies to Nazis complicit in the Holocaust, I think it should be "crimes against the Jewish people" to include the atrocities of 7th October. IMHO terrorists who took part in 7th October are simply not fit to live among humans. Since we're not going to drop them on a deserted island they need to be executed. After due process, of course. Hang them, because we're civilized people, unlike them. (Otherwise I'd say kill them very slowly, chopping off a small body part a day until they die....) But we're civilized......

 

I'm not an international lawyer but IMO they're not POWs. Nevertheless, they should be treated humanely in the meantime simply because you treat people who are in your captivity humanely. That's a universal ethical obligation. One that they ignored but we shouldn't.

On 12/13/2023 at 12:18 AM, TBoneTX said:

Thoughtful discussion after reading this, please:  How should the terrorists be dealt with; should they be dealt with differently because Hamas hold hostages; and, if death is appropriate, by what method?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What to Do With the Terrorists?

 

One of the critical questions emerging among the Western commentariat regarding the Israel-Gaza war is what to do with the Hamas terrorists captured by the IDF.  Should these be detained as POWs and treated tolerantly, as specified by the Geneva Conventions of 1949?  A second question on which the answer to the first depends entails the [...]

 

https://pjmedia.com/david-solway-2/2023/12/12/what-to-do-with-the-terrorists-n4924696

My take on ALL Palestinian inmates is they should be used as leverage. We already know hamas executed some hostages and is threatening to execute more. It's going to become more dicy the closer Israel gets to them. Imo Israel should put hamas and the world on notice that for every hostage they execute, Israel will execute 10 hamas prisoners

On 12/21/2023 at 10:03 PM, TBoneTX said:

And because Arabs/"Palestinians" are oppressed brown minorities and Jews are all lily-white*.

     *apparently including Ethiopian Jews

Always thought it was crazy jews were considered white when we are literally brown (Jesus, anyone?). Yeah, nowadays european jews have lighter skin but I guess that would make my wife a Muslim since she's polish/American yet has darker skin than I do (even though I'm half sephardic) Makes zero sense.

Progressivism is a mental illness

On 11/20/2023 at 10:18 PM, Boiler said:

There is footage out there, not that I would post it here.

 

And IDF did have a showing for sceptical journos.

Yeah I've seen alot of it. Almost "live" the night it happened on mainly telegram and X. And some in the days following (including new stuff still coming out now). I didn't get to see what the idf made, but from what I heard about the things in there about 80% of it is on the internet as well. There's a few things that are in the film though that aren't, and those I did not see.

You can't watch that stuff without being reminded every single time why it's crucial to completely do away with the nazis of the 21st century. I don't mention nazis lightly and in the past have always been hesitant to agree with anyone calling nazis any people other than, well, the original nazis. But make no mistake - these are not only nazis; they are worse nazis than the nazis of the 20th century. And that statement includes any of their sympathizers worldwide too.

They, like many gazans, sympathized and identified with hamas. The material they filmed was alot of basically hamas propaganda (in addition to the head camera footage by the terrorists themselves) in the guise of "journalism". I don't think they knew way ahead because most hamas members didn't, but they definitely knew what they're about to film when they rode the same bikes and trucks as the terrorists, and they definitely had a good time filming it. To me, they are terrorists and if they were directly targeted by the IDF, I would not shed a tear 

This one is also worth watching, from the 18th minute

The irony is that now alot of the anti Israel dimwits keep saying "there is no hamas in the west Bank so why is Israel attacking there too". Just more lies from the pathological liars side. Israel is fighting hamas there all the time which is why it's been weaker ever since 2003. But it's definitely there and if Israel didn't do what it does it would have already taken over the west Bank as well

11 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Be sure to play the <3-minute video at bottom here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Israeli Psyche and How It Got That Way

 

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2023/11/10/the-israeli-psyche-and-how-it-got-that-way-n591562

100%. Saw the video the other day on X. But yes, what's been proven Is that more concessions don't translate into more peace but the opposite is true. Once Israel withdrew from Gaza they were able to build the tunnels, get a ton of rockets and more explosives etc. All much worse than before. After the Oslo accords the west Bank was going the same way, operation defensive shield which I mentioned a few weeks ago and following up on it with smaller operations since (often referred to as "lawn mowing") have made things calm down somewhat (but still worse than what it was before the deals). 

Current model I think for gaza is similar. To go back to being like Area B of the west Bank. I think it's doable. I would say I was never part of the extreme left, but also not the right. Growing up, I believed in peace, wanted to see it happen and was excited whenever they televised any new signings.

That has changed for me as well. It's now obvious to anyone with a brain (seems half the world + is missing one) that if Israel doesn't retain control over security in those areas it will very quickly come under existential threat. 

Also about hezbollah I personally think they've already taken it too far. I'm really tired of over a month of nothing but threats from Israel as well as the US while this ####### for tat is ongoing and escalating almost daily. I say Beirut needs to get buried now, not later. Or as always, the "later" will carry a much heavier price 

On 11/10/2023 at 2:06 AM, TBoneTX said:

What do we think about VDH's points?  They seem to point to jihad as the destabilizing force in the world.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Squeezing the World's Vulnerable Peoples

 

https://townhall.com/columnists/victordavishanson/2023/11/10/squeezing-the-worlds-vulnerable-peoples-n2631042

I mean...to me it seems for several decades now like stating the obvious

11 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Israel celebrates breaching ground Hamas didn't foresee as war enters second month

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke to members of Israel's elite Egoz unit on Tuesday, exactly one month after Hamas' surprise attack on the country flipped the world upside down.  The Egoz unit specializes in guerilla-style warfare and is part of Israel's commando brigade.  It uses special weapons and tactics.

 

"I would like to tell you that what we see on the ground, from the reports the War Cabinet and I receive, and the conversations with commanders and soldiers, it is an extraordinary success.  I tell you, the Americans were here.  They explained to us what was in Fallujah and what was here and there, and they are amazed at what we have achieved," Netanyahu told the soldiers at a base in the Negev desert.  [...]

 

https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2023/11/israel-celebrates-breaching-ground-hamas-didnt-foresee-as-war-enters-second-month.php?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=israel-celebrates-breaching-ground-hamas-didnt-foresee-as-war-enters-second-month

This takes me back a bit to the conversation right after it happened about what would be considered a success or otherwise a defeat. I think, one month in, it's becoming a little easier to see that the objectives are achievable...it won't be easy, it will take time (i see people talking about 2-3 months, i think its closer to a year), and there will be a cost. But it's possible, as long as the politicians don't try to stop the military from completing what it knows how to do for whatever dumb reason. If they have to go house house, tunnel tunnel then that's what they have to do. Israel has surprised the world before by doing the "impossible" many times and it can do it again

19 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Man gathers petition signatures for 'Palestine' and hilariously includes 'Terms and Conditions'

 

[...] The modern leftist, being historically unique in his lack of knowledge and intellect, forces we conservatives to get very creative in our efforts to educate him and bring him up to speed on reality and critical thinking!

 

Now the video is only a minute long—I think you'll get quite a kick out of it—and you'll see exactly what I mean:  [...]

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/11/man_gathers_petition_signatures_for_palestine_and_hilariously_includes_terms_and_conditions.html

I saw that one the other day, hilarious but sad. Also not sure if you guys have seen this, been trending this week, from my favorite satire show in Israel

https://youtu.be/rbfccVBo9tE?si=ntgojozXvCeoqaM7

12 hours ago, EM_Vandaveer said:

 

It was a plan he released a few years back, can't find a link for it rn, but basically to only annex area C. That's where majority of Jewish settlements are anyway and will only need to give citizenship to some 100k Palestinians or so. It will also ensure we don't have a new gaza a few miles from Ben Gurion Airport

The rest they can handle on their own like they already are, no military of course etc

The problem with annexing anything right now though is basically the Abraham accords or any potential deal with Saudi prevents it, so will be interesting 

16 hours ago, EM_Vandaveer said:

Because ultimately it's bad for us & bad for them to rule over them on a non-equal footing. So for both our sakes.

Yes, all these. My family lives in TX, also don't encounter it much but it exists. Not so long ago in Dallas Jews were kept in a hostage situation in a synagogue....

Meh, I don't think that's the right solution. You'll end up either truly an apartheid state (right now people just like to claim it is, but it's not because Palestinians are not israelis), or you'll be a Muslim state run by sharia law. No third option.

I'm alot closer to Naftali Bennetts plan than anything else on this at this point

Also, I don't really go to the synagogue...but if I went into a specialty (kosher) store or bakery or something like that I'd probably be very aware of my surroundings. Can never be too safe 

4 hours ago, EM_Vandaveer said:

Annex, annex, annex, then force citizenship.

Tbh I've never been a fan of forcing citizenship. Why would you want such a major change to your demography? You'll end up being a minority in a few decades 

21 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

 

Is there even a power plant, if Israel supplies the electricity?  Perhaps again sensitivity to world reaction.

 

Jews worldwide are going to live in conscious fear for a very long time.

There is a power plant but it only supplies a few hours worth a day (when it's working, rn it's out of fuel). Israel supplied the rest but not anymore. Important to mention that while they did plan it for a couple of years and do have stockpiles of fuel and other supplies for their own uses, they just don't care about the people in gaza so ofc didn't feel the need to make sure they have enough as well. I'm sure their thinking was Israel will just give in and supply it, or the world will.

Also about jews living in fear...I do think that there's a ton of anti semitism out there, but personally can't say I encounter it or live in fear of it. Might be because I'm in Saint johns County, FL which is 75% republican (also i dont really "look jewish", im not religious etc). I've long told people that if I could walk into a bar with a bunch of bds supporters and other progressives, or a bar with alt right folks I would feel alot safer going into the latter. I've had so many people raise their eyebrows at me for that. Maybe now they understand it better, who knows

19 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Comments on this?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why Israel must win this war — and why it cannot

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4281199-why-israel-must-win-this-war-and-why-it-cannot/

I decided against a long answer here...just gonna say there's alot of nonsense there

17 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

So what's the solution?

Well it won't be easy but the only path forward would be to eliminate all terror groups and get the Palestinian authority to reform their education system if they want to even negotiate anything ever again. That should be, and is (with recent israeli governments) a precondition. That's one of the main reasons there haven't been negotiations for so long - because they refuse. 

There have been plenty of examples where this is possible if they actually want to do it. Some other countries in the region that used to be very hostile have already started doing it, including Saudi. If they don't - then oh well. It won't advance their cause, and fighting will continue 

On 10/26/2023 at 12:54 AM, TBoneTX said:

Sobering.  Look at the results of those polls.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Palestinian Arabs Overwhelmingly Support Hamas And Its Genocidal Aspirations

 

[...] In fact, Hamas overwhelmingly represents the Palestinian people.  [...]

 

https://thefederalist.com/2023/10/25/palestinian-arabs-overwhelmingly-support-hamas-and-their-genocidal-aspirations/

One thing to point out, is that while there is a minority within Arab Israelis who also support this, the majority of them do not. Considering that they are also, basically palestinian and some even have families in the west Bank or gaza, it serves to prove that it's mainly a product of your environment and education. In gaza and the west Bank they teach them from a young age to be martyrs and kill jews. In Israel you have Muslims that even serve in the idf. 

 Quick math, at least 13% of that age range are justifying admitted genocide

Especially insane to me, even if you don't believe everyone should be able to own a gun, that even those kibbutz's literally a couple miles from the border only had a team of a few armed people ready to defend it. Seems to me like it's a no Brainer that anyone this close to the border who doesn't have a criminal record should be able to get one. 

However better late than never, things are changing there, slowly. It's still not like in the US of course, but my understanding is now anyone with combat training (from their time in the military) will be able to own a weapon even in their civil life. People were literally left defenseless for hours while counting on police or the military, when their neighbors are a literal combination of isis and nazis, mind blowing to me.

It's interesting but I definitely don't agree with his definition of victory for the idf. I don't think anyone expects to go after 40k people. The most important thing, in my opinion, is going after all or most of the weapons and not allowing them back in, assasinating the leaders and those responsible for the attacks, and getting hostages out. Fighters can be left... as long as they don't have weapons to fight with

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

President of a Detroit synagogue found stabbed outside her home
Samantha Woll had led the Isaac Agree Downtown Detroit synagogue since 2022, and had worked for congresswoman Elissa Slotkin

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/21/samantha-woll-killed-detroit-downtown-synagogue

Can thank the hamas coucas for that one

On 10/17/2023 at 6:23 PM, Boiler said:

Yes that bit is true 

 

If you are thinking of the film overall a lot of it was a long way from the truth

Yeah I thought the movie was decent but didn't base it on that

On 10/17/2023 at 9:41 PM, TBoneTX said:

It would go a long way toward clearing up the murkiness in people's minds if everyone simply called this what it is:  Jew-hatred.  It's not just the semitic Jews who are endangered.  And Arabs are semites, but almost no one hates them as a group, to this extent.

Its just what kind of became common. I used to fight it i just got used to it lol

22 hours ago, Boiler said:

I assume they chose the ones that were not seriously abused.

And isolated. You wouldn't want to pull them out of somewhere or even near somewhere you have a bunch of others, that would way tip off where some of them are

46 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

No one can ever question Roger Kimball's scholarship.  This is a quick, punchy read.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who or what are 'the Palestinians?'

 

It's so cute when politicians like AOC and Rashida Tlaib, to say nothing of hysteric undergraduates and ill-informed lefties across the country, complain that Israel is an "apartheid state" that is illegitimately "occupying" the land West of the Jordan River [...]

 

https://thespectator.com/topic/palestinians-plo-yasser-arafat-soviets/

If there is anything the "gaza experiment" if you will, teaches us, it's that "two state solution" is not the solution. I'm saying that as someone (like most Israelis) who used to support it and now (again like most israelis) realizes it will never work. Israel left gaza, hamas could have turned it into Las Vegas of the Middle East, what did they do instead? 

So you've got the twats indoctrinated by the domestic terror org that is BLM claim there's still occupation cause there's a blockade etc. Why is there a blockade? Because hamas took over the strip shortly after Israel left it. Israel did try to provide better conditions and each time hamas started shooting rockets and it was back to square one. It was all based on good faith. If there is quiet then conditions will gradually improve and vice versa. There were almost 20k gazans working inside of Israel before this attack started. One of the first locations they attacked was the same passage/s that allowed workers out (and earning 12x what they do in gaza) and supplies in. Literally bit the hand and slaughtered everyone in there.

I know I'm preaching to the choir but I think this is an important point because even in my own family (from my wife's side) I've got people who think hamas is just trying to break out of the "open air prison" and that Israel is treating the "natives" so horribly, completely ignoring the fact that the indigenous people of the land are not Arabs but jews. Ignoring the fact Israel was doing more to better gazans life before this than any other country. If they wanted a good life, all they had to do was try to not kill all jews for a year or two.

There are two reasons why I think people blame Israel for this instead of just realizing it's dealing with basically isis, who wants to kill people no matter what, and has absolutely nothing to do with nonexistent occupation. The first, anti semitism, plain and simple. But not everyone is anti Semitic. The second reason is as I said above, they allow themselves to be indoctrinated against Israel by BLM and the likes. It's insane but it is what it is.

There is no way Israelis will ever let what happened in gaza over the last 20 years happen to the west bank; if that means there needs to be "apartheid" so be it. South Africa wasn't facing murderous isis and nazi like terrorists. Israel's utmost priority is to defend its citizens, jews AND arabs.

7 hours ago, Boiler said:

A little bit before my time, but I think it was up to 10 years, the embellishments came later.

Reminds me of the awful way they treated Alan Turing