UmmSqueakster

Man, that sucks. I wonder what bug got up their butt that day?

If you need a little pick me up, might I suggest browsing through Cute Overload? It won't solve your problems, but it might give you a little smile

Well, since our old picture thread is now archived, how about we start a new one?

This is dh and I this weekend at the Como Park Conservatory. It's one of our favorite places to go, especially when it's freezing outside. This room is available for weddings, and DH has decided that we're going to have a ceremony there (how many ceremonies do we need?), even though it costs $5000

of expression. Rather, it is about the abuse of the freedom to spread hate and fuel stereotypes.

Which, again, the Muslim world and their mainstream media is just as guilty of (see the material linked to in the other thread). Haven't seen the angry mobs setting the Qatar and Saudi embassies on fire or kidnapping and killing their people for the Arab MSM publishing slanderous, libelous and hate promoting materials on a regular basis. Haven't seen Christians and Jews with hateful and threatening placards on the streets of Teheran and Riyadh. Haven't seen any religous leaders here calling for the anihilation of the Muslims.

Scrap that holier than thou attitude already if you want to engage in an honest discourse.

I didn't write the article, but mearly posted it as one of the multiple points of view evident in the muslim world. If you click on the link at the top of the article, the author is discussing it on the other forum.

This deep hatred and misunderstanding can only be solved within the muslim community. They need a leader. Once that leader is in place, the world and the world media also have a job to give the peace seekers just as much attention.

The silent majority muslim community needs to find it's voice.

We have plenty of religious scholars who are speaking up and out, but I don't know if their message gets much airtime in the non muslim world.

I know of three people who I would love to take a leadership roll ala Martin Luther King Jr.

Sheikh Qaradawi - One of the most popular clerics in the Middle East. He has the highest rated show on al Jazeera

Tariq Ramadan - definately one of the greatest thinkers in the muslim world today, possibly the greatest muslim thinker in Europe. He explores how one can be both muslim and western and be faithful to both.

Sheikh Hamza Yusuf - Sheikh Hamza has a tremendous following in the American Muslim community. If he speaks at your event, you can guarentee it will be sold out.

There is a genuine struggle going on in the muslim world, with various ideas and opinions being exchanged. I make dua (prayer/supplication) that it is people like the three I mentioned above that will become the most influencial.

Hmmm, no replies yet to my thread

One of my favorite music groups is Outlandish is Danish. It's made up of two muslims (of Morrocan and Pakistani background, both born in Denmark) and a catholic (Cuban/Honduran born in Honduras).

Their newest album is increadibly exciting from both a musical and social standpoint. You can listen to it online on their website. The lyrics, which are also available on the site, are thoughtprovoking and delve into social and spiritual issues facing young muslims, and all people today. They rap/sing in English, Spanish, Urdu, Danish and Arabic. They are some of the wide variety of voices and opinions in the Muslim world.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread...17&page=1&pp=10

Danish Cartoons: Islam vs. Freedom of Expression?

Sikander Ziad Hashmi, sunniforum.com

Cartoons are doing what so many couldn’t: Unifying Muslims across the globe.

On the other hand, a growing number of brave freedom-fighters, led by journalists, are standing up to “reaffirm the principle of free expression.” And non-Muslims are wondering why this unified outrage is a no-show when it comes to seemingly more important issues such as beheadings, honour killings, and suicide bombings.

As a Muslim journalist, that puts me in a tough spot, doesn’t it?

Well, not really.

Let’s get the facts straight. What exactly is the issue?

The Danish paper Jyllands-Posten printed a total of 12 cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad last September, one showing him wearing a headdress shaped like a bomb with the kalimah inscribed on it, while another had him saying that paradise is running short of virgins for suicide bombers. A Norwegian publication reprinted the caricatures in January and publications in at least four other countries jumped on the bandwagon in the last couple of days to express their support for the principle of free expression.

Muslim outrage has spurred protests, kidnapping and death threats, boycotts of Danish products, and diplomatic spats. Danish dairy firm Arla Foods has announced 125 layoffs as a result of the boycott; national leaders have jumped into the foray, and even U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has issued a statement in an attempt to cool the growing crisis. Editors have been sacked in what’s seen to be an attack on editorial independence.

Media reports are quick to point out that Islamic traditions ban depictions of the Prophet. Thus, the understanding is that the outrage has been caused by the seemingly blatant disregard for this “Islamic taboo” by the publications in question, which is why Reporters Without Borders and other journalists and non-journalists alike are resisting, if not fighting, this wave of rage.

I’m pretty sure many outraged Muslims will also point to that as the source of their outrage.

But I ask: Would Muslims express an equal amount of outrage had the Prophet been shown in a positive light based on his teachings, perhaps instructing a would-be terrorist not to kill innocents?

Probably not. Yes, there might have been some disappointment over the depiction of the Prophet, but it wouldn’t be anywhere near what we’re seeing now.

Thus, the main issue here isn’t the depiction of the Prophet, but rather, the depiction of the Prophet in an incorrect and dishonest manner.

As a journalist, I truly value our freedom of expression and as my colleagues on this message board know, I attempt to stand by that principle whenever possible.

We all know that the right to free speech is an integral element of a democratic society. Those of us living in democratic societies enjoy that right on a daily basis.

However, no right is absolute. There are always limitations and exceptions.

I can express myself by screaming, for as long as I wish, but not to the detriment of my neighbours. Similarly, I can publish whatever I want, as long as I don’t tarnish anyone’s reputation by spreading lies or promote hatred against anyone.

I can even publicly express damaging, unflattering comments about someone, as long as they’re in the public interest and I don’t do it with malice.

The cartoons of the Prophet , especially the one with his headdress shaped like a bomb, can be given three general interpretations in today’s context:

a) He was a terrorist.

B ) He supported terrorism.

c) Islam is a religion of terrorism, since he symbolizes the religion

Anyone who is familiar with the life and the teachings of the Prophet knows that he was not a terrorist. There is no such thing as a terrorist Prophet and if there was, it would mean he and his followers would live to terrorize others, which we know is certainly not the case.

Yes, he did lead and fight in battles. But since when did fighting wars become terrorism? If that’s the case, any leader that takes his nation to war should be considered a terrorist.

As for the second interpretation, once again, anyone who is familiar with the teachings of the Prophet knows that he did not support terrorism. He forbade the killing of innocents and even ordered his followers not to kill birds and other living creatures unnecessarily. And even though the Makkans had terrorized him and his followers, he did not retort with the same when he conquered Makkah later on, nor did he let any of the followers terrorize anyone either, even as victors.

As for the last possible interpretation, once again, if anyone studies the teachings of Allah and the Prophet Mohammad in their entirety, they will know that Islam is not a religion of terrorism. It’s just not true. Yes, there are groups and individuals who attempt to justify acts of terrorism through Islam, but that does not mean that Islam is a religion of terrorism. If it was a religion of terrorism, Muslims throughout history would have been terrorists, which just isn’t the case.

Therefore, we can conclude that if the cartoons are interpreted as a) and B ), they are slanderous and libelous, or if they’re interpreted as c), they promote hate by branding all followers of Islam as terrorists, and since no one likes terrorists, people will naturally be led to hate Muslims.

This issue is not about Muslims hating freedom of expression. Rather, it is about the abuse of the freedom to spread hate and fuel stereotypes.

There is no doubt that the cartoons were originally published with malice and spite, to spread stereotypes and provoke a group that has already been victimized as a whole for the actions of a few.

But that’s not the only reason for the outrage.

The level of love and sentimental attachment many Muslims have for and with Mohammad is unparalleled, and may in fact be very difficult to comprehend for non-Muslims.

Think of your dead parents or grandparents that you loved dearly. If someone were to slander them publicly and make a mockery of them, how would you feel? Would you not react angrily and defend them?

You probably would, except the chances of anyone paying attention may be slim, since you would be alone, or perhaps have the support of a dozen or two people.

For Muslims, their beloved prophet has been slandered and mocked. He is not here to defend himself, so his followers have taken on the task, out of their love and devotion to him.

What we see now is the result of compounded anger, which isn’t always expressed in the wisest manner, especially when emotions are running high.

The issue of incorrect attribution is an important one. If Osama bin Laden was the subject of the cartoons, hardly anyone would complain.

Thus, it must be understood that Muslims are not attacking freedom of expression. Rather, they are reacting to hateful, mean-spirited distortions.

As for the question about why Muslims are so sensitive about cartoons while they don’t speak out against other seemingly important issues, the fact is that these cartoons of the Prophet have struck a common, emotional nerve across the Muslim world, while unfortunately, there is no unanimous agreement on the other issues, with which some Muslims obviously do not have a problem since they take part in or support those actions, such as beheadings, honour killings and suicide bombings. It doesn’t make it right, but that’s the reason behind the muted or disjointed response.

Some have complained about the boycotts in response to the cartoons. What’s wrong with Muslims exercising their freedom of choice? Boycotting is a common tactic for expressing displeasure, even if it doesn't directly affect those at the root of the displeasure.

In fact, in 2004, a group of Americans residing across the border from the Canadian town of Nelson, British Columbia threatened to boycott the town if it went ahead with the construction of a monument to U.S. Vietnam War draft dodgers. The construction of the monument was a form of expression, yet the town was threatened with severe economic repercussions if it had gone ahead with the construction of the monument. It didn’t.

Publishing and protesting are both forms of expression, and they must both be exercised within reasonable limits.

Muslims deserve an apology. And they seriously need to learn how to contain their emotions and express their displeasure using non-violent means.

But as long as the incorrect analysis of the issue as a “freedom of expression vs. Islamic stigma” battle remains, I'm afraid the vicious cycle of publications and protests, and more protests and more publications, will continue.

editor@sunniforum.com

Ok, I'm confuseled. Which thread am I suppose to be posting in?

In any case, if ya'll have time, wander on over to my thread in Off Topic on the Complexities of the Muslim world. I spend a lot of time online and this last week, I've basically given up in frustration. I'm sick and tired of being the scapegoat for every stupid thing some muslim does somewhere. I know the thread will go right over some people's head, but maybe someone will read it and a light will go on in their head.

When some muslims somewhere do something stupid, message board commentaters, political pundits and tv talking heads often get on their high horses and paint us with a wide brush. The fact that there are a wide variety of views, opinions and actions in the muslim world is often ignored. Looking at the discussions and the news, it would seem all 1.5 billion muslims were out there burning embassies in Syria. However, even a cursory glance of the online islamosphere tells a very different story. One of my fav. websites, alt.muslim, has an excellent article on the growing debacle. I won't paste it here, because that would remove the hotlinks. However, I highly recommend following the link to read it, as well as paroosing popular muslim bloggers for a wide variety of opinions and views. Sunni Sister has a massive collection of blog links if you're looking for somewhere to start.

The Dirty Dozen (And The Damage Done)

This isn't the typical "Islam is a religion of peace" line that has been used so often in the last few years. It is a post in hopes that eventually people will realize that there is a diversity of opinion among muslims and in the muslim world. We aren't a monolith.

al-Muhajiroun... isn't that the British Muslim extremist group that "took over" a mosque somewhere in the UK? I vaguely recall reading about how they took it over and used it to preach hate for a few years before 'mainstream' Muslims, under pressure from Scotland Yard, took it back. Or am I thinking of a different group?

Hmm, not sure. I do know that they're a split from Hizbut Tahrir, who themselves are a fringe group. If you split from the fringe because the fringe isn't radical enough for ya, you know you're a little bit more than a wee bit crazy.

Some aquaintences of mine are hosting a peaceful gathering in Birmingham this Saturday. I hope it gets as much press as other protests, although I know it won't.

You don't get the media attention if you're not acting crazy. I have a beautiful protest sign that is arabic calligraphy of the words peace and love in the shape of a dove. At all the protests I've attended (anti war, etc), I've never made it into the paper, but rest assured, the ones that make fun of the president, or make outragious claims always do.

According to Indigo Jo, these are serial demonstraters, who show up at protests organized by the mainstream muslim community, and then hijack it with their crazy signs and own agenda.

There, I set about telling various journalists, and some who were not journalists, that the core of the people across the road were in fact "serial demonstrators" who have a history of attending other people's demonstrations, shouting slogans largely unrelated to the issue at hand, and casting a bad light over both Islam itself and the demonstration. So, last year the media reported that a demonstration had taken place outside Grosvenor Square at which former Guantanamo detainee Martin Mubanga spoke and violent anti-American slogans were chanted ([1], [2]). I later discovered that the demo had been crashed by people the organisers said were al-Muhajiroun. And I suspect that the same was true here.

She should be able to get her ss number before the EAD since she entered on a K1 visa only 1 month ago, just apply in her maiden name.

Yup. My DH got his a week after he applied, and we're no where close to getting the EAD yet.

Wow, Ramsy County, MN is really greedy it seems. It cost us $115 for some nurse's assistant to ask my husband if he had his medical records with him, and when he said he didn't, she noted that on the form, and sent him off to get shots.

What does this mean? Married Islamically but not legally? I was married the islamic way but our marriage is legal. What is the difference? Sorry to change the subject, but I am confused.

In Egypt, for a foreigner to marry an Egyptian takes a ton of paperwork and lots of running around between different bueracratic agencies. It can take many weeks, and completely ruin what little time the two parties have with one another.

For my husband and I, we did not want to live in an apartment together without being married. However, getting legally married was out of the question, since it took a lot of time, and would have meant that I would have lost my health insurance/financial support from my parents for school.

So, we had a little nikkah, Islamic ceremony, with the witnesses, but without turning in the paper to the officials. We never mentioned this during the visa process, and ended up just fine.

For us, it was a religious matter plus a time issue. However, it wasn't an orfi marriage, which is a growing problem in Egypt. Orfi marriages are also "religious" marriages without the legal strings attached. This allows bfs and gfs to hook up without feeling guilty, in secret. No one knows except the couple and the witnesses. The problem is that it leaves the women with no legal recourse if she gets pregnant and the man disavows their relationship. She's left with an illigitmate child, which in Egyptian society has very negative social stigma attached.

Our religious marriage was made public to his friends and to his family. If I had ended up pregnant (I didn't, thank God), he couldn't have disowned me and the child since his family would have shamed him into taking care of us.

I just want to say thank you so much to everyone for the support. I'm sitting here with tears streaming as I write this. I love Mohammed so much and I miss him something terrible. This process is beyond stressful. It's nice to have a little "family" here who understands. No one who has not gone through this could possible relate. I just remind myself often "enshaa Allah".

Thank you again.

The visa process takes time. At first, I had a very difficult time with it, but as time wore on, I made the best of it. My dh and I had a relationship online for 4 years (plus a few real life visits) before he made it here on a visa. During that time, we talked about every possible subject under the sun, got to know each other really really well, and knew that the process we were going through was right.

Take this time to write long letters to each other, chat for hours online, and just talk. Get to know your future husband. Hopefully, that will lead to less suprises once you're already together.

Oy the Egyptian embassy. How many ways can I complain about thee?

I went to Egypt this past June to help DH finish up the packet to send to the embassy (and to see him, as I hadn't been to egypt in a year and a half ). We double, triple, quadruple checked to make sure we had everything. We sent it in via TNT, which is expensive for the average egyptian. Well, low and behold, a week later, his mom called us up in Cairo and said that you have a package from the embassy. Of course, we get all excited, thinking it's the interview packet. His friend makes a trip down from Mahalla to Cairo to deliver it to us. Anticipation thick, we open the package, and wahhh? It's all the paperwork we just sent in, with a note saying that they can't accept it because we didn't include a copy of his birth certificate.

Now, we know we sent the birth certificate, so we shuffle through the stack of papers they sent back to us. Low and behold, what is there? The freakin birth certificate! At this point, I'm pissed. The embassy had also jipped us out of LE with the interview fee. It was suppose to be $100, but when we went to the bank, they said it was 600 LE. With the exchange rate at the time, it should have only been 520 LE. With the extra 40 le to send back the packet, it cost my husband an entire week's salery.

Yeah, so as I said, I was pissed. I went to the nearest internet office and penned off an increadibly rude email to the embassy staff, asking who was going to pay for us to send the packet back, since they sent it back to us in error. As soon as I sent it, I realized I should have waited until I calmed down, but ah well. So, they have a two day turn around time on answering emails, and what do we get back? An email stating that they never sent our packet back to us, we must be mistaken.

So, at this point, my head is going to explode. We send back the packet with a letter stating that everything IS included, and that they better check 10 times before sending it back to us again. I go home, no interview date.

So, they email my husband a few days after I leave, telling him he has an interview in one week. He's confused, because he doesn't receive a letter in the mail, nor his his number on the website. He goes to the embassy on July 7th. He's wearing a nice suit, got a hair cut, carrying a brief case, looking very nice overall.

But, at the gate they say, you have no interview. Go away. ARgggggggg Evidentitly, they forgot that they had scheduled him a rush interview via email. So, he waits an hour, and the interviewer comes in. He hasn't looked at the file, doesn't bother to open it, just asks my husband a few questions. He then sends him away, and we're in AR for a month and a half.

We received the visa on August 18th, DH got here October 3 and we were officially married October 14th.

That's my egyptian embassy story. I pray to God that I never have to deal with them every again.

Three months? Geeze! He's going to go nuts not working for 3 months. He's going nuts now. There aren't any jobs in Nicaragua. Oh well....he can do the dishes, make me breakfast in bed every morning, clean the house, and do the laundry! More importantly...give me a daily massage! Sounds like a plan to me!

I'll keep him busy.....with something.

Might I suggest he looks into volunteering? My dh went absolutely stir crazy being stuck in the house, not driving, etc etc etc. So, he started volunteering for the county. In addition to getting him out of the house, he now has good references in the United States and he has a few job prospects once he gets his EAD.

Congratulations! Mubarak!

I love the dress! Mubarak to the happy couple!

What does it mean "Islamic wedding"? Are you two already married ?!

"August 2005 - Amanda goes to Morocco to spend 6 weeks with Youssef and have our Islamic wedding" - from your timelime

Some muslims (and non muslims I would venture to guess as well) want to make the commitment to each other and to God ASAP, so they have unofficial weddings that aren't government sanctioned.

I married my husband Islamically in August of 03. That way, we could stay together in an apartment while waiting for the visa stuff, without breaking any rules in our religion. Why didn't we go the K-3 option? Because it took way too much time and running around between different egyptian bueracracies for a foreigner and an egyptian to get married in Egypt and we just didn't have that time to spare in our short visits together.

I can't speak for Amera, but that was my experience.

PS, Amera, I answered in the AOS forum. I would say get married asap, file the AOS/EAD stuff and have a fancy wedding later. The sooner you send in the forms, the sooner Youssef gets his green card and employment auth.

Start to get together all the materials you need (lal_brandow has a good list) asap! Especially go and get the vaccination suppliment right away. We waited on getting that until after we were married and it took them almost a month to get the paperwork filed.

If you have everything together, then you can send it in as soon as you get married and have a copy of your marriage certificate, which you can get right away if you actually physically take the signed papers from who ever performed the ceremony directly to the place they need to be, rather than send them in via mail.

The sooner you get married, the sooner you can turn in the AOS/EAD, and by extention, the sooner your dh can start working.

As for Saint Paul, as far as I can tell, they suck. Haven't gotten a bio appointment yet, no indications of an interview, bah.

Check the guides!

It may seem overwhelming at first, but most of the people on this board did K-1 (or K-3, or whatever the case may be) all by themselves, as well as the subsequent paperwork required once your significant other gets to the US.

Don't be scared, it's completely and totally do-able. My fiance got to the US a little over 9 months after we filed our the first paperwork.

Men in galabiya are In egypt however, it's usually considered farmer's garb, so I'm having a really hard time convincing my husband to buy one

From Shukr

Give me a man in a galabiya and a scruffy beard any day *rahma faints*