dindo and patty

I think people see this as obvious, yes. The less obvious thing to be looking for is manipulation by the "victim" regarding money in particular. We are accustomed to the story of the Filipina who manipulates her Americano for money, and some of it may be pertinent in this situation, but insight into the reverse is important too.
When you observe someone saying they are bringing them to Manila on the red carpet ride in order to show them how frugal you are, and putting all this thought into what their next "move" is given your last move - then you have crossed a couple of important lines. The first line is about open communication: you sit people down and explain what you are doing, and make agreements with them. If it is a budgeting 101 exercise, you sit down with a calendar and the regular bill schedule, along with the father's weekly masonry salary and work up a plan. If it is a trip then you chalk up the travel, lodging, and walk-around money. The easiest thing to do, and which shows a little more respect to them, is to just give a sum and say "that is for the trip to Manila" and give them the dignity of making their own decisions.
If there is any ambiguity in your position - then you have to ask who is "testing" or manipulating whom? When the alleged lesson is planning and budgeting then why has that very thing not been made clear? It is impossible to teach it without showing them how to do it. So this is one of those "what's wrong with this picture" moments. Which is the second line crossed: doing the opposite of what you are saying. If your lesson is in scrupulous frugality and personal responsibility then you do not go to Manila in the first place. You do not bring the family to Manila. You do not take taxis and planes, you take ships (economy class), jeepneys and buses. Better still, the girl demonstrates the aptitude and maturity to do it herself. Of course, we like to play the white knight on the horse rescuing the poor helpless little waif, but we have to be honest about how much respect it shows for someone if we keep acting like she's a helpless baby.
Laying out the red carpet when the picture is supposed to be frugality means they see you as someone who does the opposite of what they are saying. To us, this kind of money is not such a big deal. But to a poor Filipino you have to multiply by a hundred to appreciate the gravity of the lesson. When someone sees more money being pissed away in a week than they have seen their whole lives then that's what they remember about you, not that you are frugal. They see you are a money spigot and furthermore are unclear about how the spigot works because the words do not match the actions. Therefore the most rational thing to do is watch actions instead of listening to words. They hear "Don't ever ask me for money because blah blah blah..." and then they ask for money because every time they ask, you give a long-winded speech and give them the money anyway.
I can't come down on Darren and say this as a mark against him as a person, my God nobody is better than anyone else. I hope we look inside ourselves instead - we who have more money - and think carefully about how we interface with our spouse's family over it. Money can do more harm than good when it is applied wrong. It isn't any wonder why some families are corrupted by lazy greed. If we teach them to burn money like cigars, isn't that a lesson a little too easily learned?

hehehe,,I guess they thought you have all the money in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if they thought so. You're always talking about all the money you're spending for your 'girl' and her family in this website. After all, you're DA MAN, right? I am actually expecting a scanned copy of all the receipts from you after that TGI Fridays dinner with her family.
You talk too much. I am hoping you are getting all the attention that you desperately need - whether it's good or bad - it's still attention, right? And you are obviously in need of it.
Goodluck to Gretchen.

super LOL!!as in LMFAO!!!!

I wish that logic was a component to all of this, but it is not. The waiting game is very subjective.
I am a state employee and it would take DOS only 2 seconds to do my background check since I have a "LIVE SCAN" file due to being a bonded employee. However, my fiancee comes from a non-first world country where records might be less available, and on top of that is living on a green card in another country at the moment. Add in, we are 2nd marriage applicants...I divorced and she a widow.
As was mentioned above, case work, I am sure is divided randomly amongst the IO department handling I-129f's. One works quick with little concern for national security, another is Gen. Patton. One gets sick and their sub hasn't a clue. Another loses a parent mid-case and finds it hard to even read about your love affair. They are humans (although I wish a barcode scanning machine could zip through my petition).
We must give them a little slack and have faith that they are doing their job, as we would in their position. Of course, the shifting of priority from one application to another based on lag is also possible. If the summer left to many K3's lying around it is only fair they catch up on those before starting a new batch of ours.
I write all of this because I too am frustrated, but only out of selfishness deep down inside. I wish we could all be in and out in 90 days, and that everyone would be reunited at the same time. Then I remember that in my life I have lived in many countries and had machine guns stuck in my mouth...and I think; okay, a little waiting, a little frustration, and perhaps we help this great nation weed out those coming who would destroy what we have.
So be it.
1Corinthians 13:4-8  
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
If we love...we will wait...and in the end WE WILL BE HAPPY!
Hang in there, the real rollercoaster ride is after we say "I do!"

Some people's documents are easier to verify than others. It's easier to verify information from the UK than to verify information from Vietnam. It's easier to verify information when it would be a first marriage for both fiancees than it would be for people with prior marriages. It's easier to verify the information when a couple send in exactly what is asked for than for a couple who may have sent in something else.
For example, John and Mary files first and it's hard to verify their information. Dave and Beth file much later and their information is easy to verify. As soon as their information are verified, they can be approved. It's not unfair for Dave and Beth to have their case approved before John and Mary's when Dave and Beth's information have been verified while John and Mary's information is still being verified.

Be careful! You're going to need the NOA2 approval notice for the adjustment of status filing. Since you've already gotten an RFE that means an adjudicator already has your petition. It probably won't be long before it's approved, presuming you don't get another RFE. Even if you fire your attorney now, there's a good chance the NOA2 is going to be sent to him. If his terms say that he isn't required to surrender any documents to you then you might have to pay to get another copy of the NOA2.
I would cool my heels a bit and wait for the approval. Once the petition is approved then the attorney is out of the picture for the remainder of the K1 visa process. Try to get the original NOA2 from the attorney. If they won't give you the original then at least get a good quality copy of it. A second generation copy will probably be good enough for AOS. Once you've got that then you can fire your attorney without any future negative consequences.

Your posts are getting weirder and weirder. Do you expect anyone to believe that pile of jebs?
Do you even realize that Markieboy is Filipino? Sheesh...
I'm going to enjoy reading the responses from the rest of the tribe!!!
By the way, I find it strange that you would whine about how your inlaws are pissing away money, then go on to describe how you didn't stick to your own budget.
It must be h*ll when a control freak loses control.
Gretchen...we will pray for you!
OK tribe...Magdasal na tayo.......

Darren, I haven't said much yet, but have read all of your threads this past month. As some have said, I think you have a serious lack of ability to express yourself as you mean to. At least, I HOPE that's what it is that's leading to all your woes.
But about the money... it's wonderful that you sent it. And I know full well money doesn't grow on trees. But you sent it. It's gone. The moment it left your bank, it was NO LONGER YOURS, and unless you sent a certain amount of money, with instructions on how to spend it, it's none of your business how it got spent. And since you brought it up first... if you didn't have the money just laying around to throw at the trip, then you could have saved LOT by staying in the US and working. Not only would you have completely eliminated all the SLEC and USEM drama, you would have saved all the costs of YOUR travel, plus you would have a paycheck this week. Not the smartest decision you could have made, considering your dire financial status now.
And another thing... why even mention the PHP160,000 that you have sent? Do you think it matters to anyone here? That is personal business, and you should know better than publish it publicly. And FWIW, considering the amount of time you were sending it, it really isn't all that much. More than they had before, and I am sure it was appreciated by Gretchen's family, but not an amount worthy of bragging about (or complaining about, depending on your point of view) on VJ. If you have it to send, and won't miss it, by all means, share away. But quit trying to make it sound like you are some sort of champ because you did. Most on here do. And even if they send less in total than you, I am sure it is a significant part of ALL their budgets, trying to help out another family halfway around the world.
I understand where you are coming from, saying Gretchen "is yours". While it is a foreign concept to many of us, my Asawa has told me that is how she feels about our relationship... she is "giving herself" to me; she "is mine". But bear in mind that it means more about fidelity, love, honor, and commitment than it does anything physical. As long as the respect, love, & fidelity are given back equally, you will be alright, in spite of how it may sound to some on here. I'm sure if I don't treat her as an equal, she will slap the (insert your favorite expletive here) out of me, and set me straight, or leave me for someone who WILL respect her.
As for the MIL part of it, you have been given some good advice thus far. Namely, like them or not, agree or not, they are now part of your family. And while Gretchen may love you, which I am sure she does, as much as she knows how, remember that she has been loving her mama for 100% of her life, and you only 3.5% of it. Blood/water was mentioned, and is very true. Respect her parents as much as you love Gretchen, and it will prolly work out ok for you. And to help sweet, young Gretchen understand the money situation, a monthly tally of your income and expenditures for the past few months, as well as the future, might help a lot. People who aren't used to the money that Americans "throw around" have virtually no grasp on what bills and such cost over here. A good example was when my fiancee and I were discussing plane fares... Our round trip for two from MNL to TAG is costing me a whole $178. Imagine her surprise to find out that a visit to my parents from Alaska will be more like $800 EACH. Absolutely no frame of reference to someone who has never traveled outside the PI.
Good luck to both of you, you're both gonna need it. And while this piece of advice may seem counter-intuitive, you may wish to seek advice from those that know you better than most on here.
Best wishes to you and Gretchen!

Darren, you voluntarely paid all the money to impress her family so you could gain a 19 year old in your possesion. You have'nt had her here one week and turned into a Control Addict. Your not even married yet but now you have her here and laying down your rules.
You have Issues. Are you going to hide her in the closet and only take her out of it when you decide. She is a young child (Adult) and will learn what you were and what your turned into. How are you going to act when she adjusts and meets other Pinays and they look at her situation with you and your behavior. Your butt is cooked. She will get smart.
You taken a young woman from her Villidge and promised the world and in less than a week destroyed all that but she don't see it yet. Oh, she will see eventually. And you are stuck. Modify your behavior.
You taken advantage of this young ladies life. You brought her to the States and now wish to be treated like a King from a 19 year old.
She is going to notice other men/husbands wifes. She is trapped. And she will get out of that trap eventually.
You talk about money in all your replys. No trust and even doubts. Well, you did it.
You would be a fool to not realize Sucker! Blood is thicker than water and your blood is running thin and crystal clear.
I just hope after the fake presentation you showed over there did not shame the family.
They trusted you. Now your complaining. Never heard of Marrigde Counsil before being married. YOU HAVE ISSUES Darren. Your behavior will intensify because Grethchen is pretty and men will look. She is going to be your wife and not a barbie doll to hide in the closet and pull out when you want to play with it.

Oh boy...here we go again...
I understand the fact that you're not the most articulate person in the world, but do you think about what you say before you say it???
Some comments you made are very degrading and humiliating. Other comments just contradict themselves.
I believe much of the problems you are experiencing are the same problems YOU created.
Do you really believe this? Even though she may marry you in the near future, you must remember that she'll always have ties to her parents. She probably holds their advice and opinions with very high esteem and respect. That doesn't mean that her parents "control" her, and neither should you. I'm hoping you would want Gretchen to be a successful, independent woman who is capable of making her own intelligent decisions.
I highly doubt both of these claims.
In general, women don't appreciate being treated like #######. They don't like to have their minds made for them. Instead, they prefer to be treated with love, respect and admiration. Putting these qualities into practice helps improves relationships.
Again, contradictions. Is she capable of making her own decisions? Or do those decisions need approval from you first?
It upset you that Gretchen willingly decided to give her mother P6,000? Seriously?
Perhaps if you weren't so controlling and dominating, Gretchen wouldn't feel the need to hide things from you. Have you considered that?
Nope, not in the slightest.
That's not necessarily a good thing.

Darren,
As I mentioned in a previous post quoting you, you have a lot to learn. I hate to say it, but the way you are setting up this relationship I think you are creating some problems for the two of you. I also mentioned earlier not to leave the wrong impression with her family but I may have been too late on that comment. I'm sure their expectations are higher than you imagined.
I think you really need to scramble at this point. It's going to take a lot of long conversations between you and your future wife to set things straight. Concentrate on your relationship with her now. It may be hard for her to open up to you and express her true feelings at first. Be prepared for that. Don't try to control her every move, it will only lead to trouble.
Have you introduced her to any Filipinos here yet? They will be able to help explain things to her in her own language about your relationship with her family. She needs another friend here besides you. Preferably someone who has gone through what she's going through.
Good luck to both of you,

Okay, I'm assuming that you really are sincere when you're asking how to deal with mama in law? So, I'm going to just answer that question and ignore all the controversial parts of the post.
I'm going to assume that you meant the part about respecting Gretchen's parents; but the problem is, your actions don't seem to show that respect. If mama doesn't want Gretchen associating with certain people, I think it's disrespectful to totally ignore her wishes. Plus, you haven't even told Gretchen that the people will be at the wedding. Doesn't Gretchen get to help decide that? Would Gretchen want to go behind her mother's back? You're showing a lack of respect to both Gretchen and her mother.
You also have a problem with mama trying to influence Gretchen. If you have respect for the person Gretchen is, then you should have respect for her mother because there is probably nobody who has been more influential in her life. And to start talking about the gravy train also shows a lack of respect. You get to make all the decisions now because you're the man with the money. Do you seriously want to say that? What happened to the respect?
My advice is start showing real respect to her parents and even more importantly, show respect to Gretchen. Don't make decisions without her being a part of it. Don't deceive the mother in law. Think about the point of view of others. And do a lot more listening.
Hope that helps.

My input.....it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Often times the intended audience gets caught up in how things are presented and not the message that was attempted to be relayed.....Public speaking 101. Works in the real world too. If one's going to use controversial terms and language then it should be explained in detail to defuse any unintended fallout.
Bob

If you really said it to your fiancee and her MIL. I already sorry for your soon to be wife. Control??? are you seriously using those words. Did you got a slave for you or a wife?
Sorry but it is just frustrating to read your post.

A partner is and supposedly your equal / balance and not a property you own or control. A controlling attitude takes away the identity of the other person as herself. One can't be happy losing who she is. Realize that when you married somebody from different culture, you should be understanding of the way people are raised from the place where they came from. Of course we understand your concern. It's never so easy to find work and earn there. However, do remember that the moment you hurt your wife's family would hurt her too. Between who wears the pants or not. You should also remember blood is thicker than water. If it is really about family matter, I think the best way to deal with it is to talk with your wife. Express to her your feelings by letting her know that you respect them and do care that the relationship between you , her and the family stay close. Don't ever create that wall in between her and her family, especially this time when she will be adjusting. Its no way good to pile up more stress.

Darren has started another thread....... ................ I'm sorry but you'll not get too much sympathy airing out your 50's man/woman mentality here. I understand it may work for you but there's going to be many who have a problem with it. Best of luck with the MIL problems. Sometimes it's not what you say, it's how you say it to convince/encourage others to do the right thing or to modify behaviors.
Bob

i don't know but somehow i feel sorry for her already.... tsk... tsk... tsk... all i can say to her is "Good Luck!"

She is mine now?
I control you?
Who wears the pants and dresses?
Purpose of your post? You have a fiancee not property.

My son and I have done a lot of photography of weddings, so I may have a different point of view than most. Comming from the guy's side if things there are a couple things you should really consider.
1) If this is a international wedding, then one of two of you aren't really going to be able to have a lot of their friends and family at the wedding. While the man wants to give his bride everything to make her dreams come true, if the wedding is very unballanced, is that really going to accompolish what you are wanting?
2) What is the wedding really about and who is it about? To me, it is about the man and wife, God, the pastor, and possibly their children. For everyone else it is basically just a show and a party.
3) Planning and executing a wedding can add a lot of stress both financially and emotionally to a new couple. The bigger the wedding the more stress. The more people, the more there is a chance that someone is going to do something unexpected or just basically wrong.
4) A lot of people think that they need a big church wedding, but a church is really where people come to meet, it isn't the house that God built, it's the house that men built for people to worship God. God created the outdoors and in many ways He created places that are much more beautiful than man would ever build. Outdoor weddings also have the opportuinty for a whole lot more varity of colors and backgrounds for the pictures that will help you remember that day for the rest of your lives. That being said, a rainny day outdoor wedding isn't such a good thing.
5) As others have said, consider the expense. Plane tickets, visa's, medical exams, trips back and forth, phone bills and all the stuff that comes with an international wedding can create a financial strain on most people. Plus, do you want to spend the money on a wedding and big party or would you rather go see the new country together and have a nice honeymoon where you can enjoy each other?
6) I think you need to consider not just the financial expense, but also the "time" expense of a wedding. I know in my case, time is a huge factor, between work, keeping up housework, and keeping up with all the other stuff around my house, there are weeks that go by where time is just a major issue. Add to all of that the idea that he has been trying to get things ready for his bride to be living with him. Now add on all of the paperwork and such that the Immigration process has added into the mix, and the candle is certainly burning from both ends. Then keep in mind the expense and paperwork that is yet to come if you have to file for AOS and such.
7) This guy obviously loves you very much to do all that he has to make an international couple come together. I am sure he wants everything for his new wife, but some understanding and returning that love can go a long way.
8) Think of the marriage, not the wedding. Marriage is hard work and even harder when the two of you have to adjust to different cultures and such. One of the biggest rules of making a marriage work is to not do harm to the marriage. Find a way to compromise on things, including the wedding if necessary, so that you keep the marriage solid. Protect that marriage with your life, because that is what you are promising each other that you will do. I have seen too many big weddings ruin a marriage from the start. So think about it, is the marriage the fairy tail or the wedding, and what is most important?
9) Go to premarriage counseling and take it very seriously! Start things off on the right foot with good communications and some help so that you don't make the mistakes that damage the marriage. This also helps you to get to know each other better. Yes, this probably means that you won't get married right off of the plane, but building a successful marriage takes work and a solid foundation.
10) Do special and unique things in the wedding to show your love to each other! This doesn't mean go buy each other some gift, it means do something for each other that means a whole lot to the both of you.
11) I am probably going to get flamed for this, but do not do everything and just expect him to show up! The wedding and the marriage is about the two of you and is the beginning of your lives together, you should start out with solid communications and working together, because you are going to have to work on and communicate with each other about a whole lot of things from that day forward! Make sure you both are on the same page from the very start. Certainly, you can agree on what parts each of you are going to do, but you need to walk the highway of life together, you had better get on the entrance ramp together.
I hope this helps and I pray that you have a long and happy marriage.
--Jim

This is what happens when selfish men go shopping abroad for women like they're a pair of shoes you can take back.
Divorce your wife, and try acting with some dignity and respect not only for yourself and for her, but for the law.

Off topic - just a bit:
I think if the OP actually knew anything about Latinas in general perhaps he would not have the problems he's had...
First of all, most Latinas are posessive of their men (in varying degrees). You need to understand their upbringing and family attitudes. They were raised to be loyal to their men with very strong family values. BUT - most Latinas (and I know more than a few) have been cheated on or abused by their Latin boyfriends / husbands, etc... I am not putting down the Latino male species, just that without exception my fiance and ALL of her friends and acquaintces have has these experiences with their Latin mates. So - this in general makes Latinas more suspicious of their men and more possessive. They simply don't want any more pain or disappointments.
So - when the OP met his beautiful wife at first I'll bet that he found her attention as a positive attribute. It's a wonderful thing when a beautiful woman makes you the center of her world. Then when she arrived here the same attuitudes she displayed when they dated in Argentina continued and all of a sudden they became unacceptable?
Getting to know a person AND their culture is the most important thing when it comes to mariage. When men see their foreign fiance in their environment the romance overwhelmes the senses and most guys don't see that the relationship they have in "Argentina" is not the same as what they have here on Main Street USA. That is why repeated trips and truly getting to know the person is crucial to a sucessful marriage.
Back to topic:
Deserting your wife back in her home country is the worst thing you cna do to her AND your child. Just so you know, to even remove your child from Argentina will be impossible without the WRITTEN consent of the mother - the police will stop you from boarding the plane. No judge will award you full custody and prevent the mother from having access to her child. Bribing a jusge will get you put UNDER the prison for a very long time, it's not the same as "paying the policeman" for a speeding ticket.
Do the correct thing. You made the child, whether by "accident" or by the grace of God and you'd better be prepared for the reaction to your actions. YOU could wind up not being able to see your own child and still having to pay support to your spouse, even if you desert her in Argentina.

Wow, really??? You're coming on here asking us how to dump your wife off in her country...and to kidnap your child???? Oh...and you want to "pay off" a judge. You sound like great husband and father material.

I understand that when you're looking at a hot sports car or a hot young girl, you can sometimes make a quick decision out of the spur of the moment, like buying that Lamborghini on credit or marrying the smoking hot chick from the Copacabana.
If the car or the chick doesn't perform as desired, it helps to have purchased a "money back guarantee." On the same token is "having a child by accident" to be seen. Having a child is not an accident. It happens if you don't use birth control or fail to pull out in time. That's not an accident, that's extremely irresponsible, as the outcomes does not only effect you, but two more people. So it appears to me that you show a pattern of making irrational decisions in the spur of the moment without using much or the capacity the Almighty himself has given you so generously.
my thoughts to you therefore: think, think first, and think carefully, before you make any further decisions that can have a life-changing effect.

Since both you and your fiancé are single, I think you are good to go.
Read post #18 in this thread.
2) If the Filipino citizen gets married in the Philippines, and then gets divorced in the US, and it was the Filipino citizen who initiated divorce, it will not be recognized in the PI. However, if the Filipino citizen has naturalized at time of filing/granting of divorce, then the divorce will be recognized in the PI. If petitioner, on the other hand, was Filipino citizen at time of filing, and then has become a US citizen by the time divorce was granted, divorce will not be recognized.
I trust Pinay Wife's advice.

I love that you're blaming USCIS for YOUR decision to import someone, for YOUR decision to marry them, for YOUR decision to not read the fine print. But all this would be moot if you had actually known the person you married better.
I am the immigrant. Do I know the rules of the I-864? Yes. Divorce, giving up GC and USC are the "easiest" options. Does my USC husband. Yes. I told him and made him read the form. He really wasn't/isn't worried though. I won't be claiming benefits, I'd return to Aus first or get help from my family. I'll be getting USC as soon as I'm eligible. He knows that.
Here's the thing. The contract is between you and the US government if your ex claims means tested benefits... which she's not eligible for until she's been an LPR for 5 years. At the 5 year mark she's eligible to become a USC. If she's a deadbeat then yes you'll end up paying the price for YOUR choices. As it should be. Rather than other tax payers paying for your choices and your mistakes.