NY_BX

I will be devil's advocate here with the intent of sheding a limelight in an underlined issue. By no means my intentions are to rude or judgemental. I am simply posing some questions as an advocate and even a psychologist, just to help out and get some clarification.
As mostly everyone in these boards, I am baffled by the CO response and the discriminatory behavior they bluntly projected. It is highly disrespectful and no professional should ever treat anyone in that manner.
All that said, I must bring up with dubious, doubtful hunches about the bullet point summary of events that transpired at the interview. I find it extremely hard to believe that a CO will tell an interpreter, several times, in your fiancee's face that he doesn't trust him. Reading that, to me only shows one huge red flag and it is not on the CO's or interpreter's side. I'm sorry, but I truy honestly believe your fiancee is not being straight forward with you. He must have done or said something to trigger such an offensive comment from two professionals. As you mentioned, the answer "by luck" would have triggered a red flag as well. It sounds as if he was surfing the wed in search of a victim. Sounds a little dramatic, but as you cleverly explain, Egypt is high fraud and I'm so sure they've heard those dubious answers before. Now, to the core of the debate: your age difference is a problem. If I was a CO, I would think there not one, but two desperate folks here trying to outsmart the system. Does that mean you're bad people? Absolutely not. I personally have big issues with the legality of marriage and the bubble it has been secluded in, but that's topic for discussion right now. What I believe, and God as my witness knows I want to be totally wrong, is that your fiancee was not forthcoming with the entire truth. I truly believe there are many elements of this interview he weeded out to make it seem the CO's fault. Unless you were there with him in the interview, how sure are you he didn't make another mistake and answered a question somewhat "shady"? "By luck" is not a solid answer and that sets out a precedent to judge the rest of the interview. Also, his demeanor, body language, and overall communication skills are observed thoroughly. The CO had looked at the file before; he knew your ages prior to the interview. So yes, he/she was prejudiced from the get-go. But you both needed to prepare a little bit better to knock that interview out of the park and break down the walls the CO has put up before even meeting him. Let's say the CO didn't know your ages, you still have to prepare to hit a homerun.
I have a personal belief system about age ranges in marriages, exclusively. I am 6 years older than my fiancee, but we both have the same educational level, we both are liberal political activists, we both enjoy the same indie art and are hippies, etc. We both have the same lifestyle level. I hope a 27 year old is in the same lifestyle level that an older partner, by 20 years. I've seen it happen, trust me, I work for artists. Two actors I represent are married to younger partners by far and they are very happy. However, that's not the norm, at least in the bubble I live in. So, I apologize if I'm being harsh. As a woman, I'd hate to read a post from you claiming you've been hurt and even defrauded. I'd hate not to speak up for women, or men, out there that are being scammed. I tell you this because I just closed a case of a 26 year old Egyptian male that married a 43 year old American lady. He did everything right, including nailing the interview. He landed in the US and 2 months after they sign marriage papers, he picked up and abandoned her. She had to hire a private detective to find him and divorce him. The lady pressed charges against him and needless to say it was a battle because he claims that he was a victim of domestic abuse. Because of cases like this, we are all paying the price. As they say in my Puerto Rico: "pagan justos por pecadores." By no means I implying this will happen to you, and again, God as my witness I wish I'm spraying ####### out of my fingertips. I just want you to be more aware of the circumstances so you're more prepared for the next round.
God bless you and keep on trying. Look at this with fresh eyes.

First of all, this is NOT your fault. This has nothing to do with calls or text messages, for god's sake. This is serious.
Now, I may be completely wrong here, but I have never heard of agents calling and holding basically a Stokes interview, especially when the passenger is arriving at his/ her country. Furthermore, there's no such thing of returning at POE people for "no reason." There's a reason, or many. Did you petition for him already? Are you in the middle of a CR-1 or IR-1? Does he have a tourist visa? What valid visa he had?
I believe tourist visas for Egyptians are meant to stay up to 30 days at a time. You said he came in July and left October. If that's the case, then he overstayed his visa, therefore he is deportable. Which means, he does NOT have a valid visa. Now, if I'm wrong about the timeframe, then something far serious has ocurred and you may be unaware.
Hopefully an expert can help you. My hunch tells me there's something going on in Egypt that you may not know about.
You MUST get surgery without him. That's the crucial thing! You can't fix that now. Take care of your health.
Good luck!

We sent out our RFE response today.
Our packet contents are:
TAXES (again) 2012, 2013, 2014. This time I highlighted both our names and address and social security numbers. Bills of Verizon, every month until literally yesterday when I received the bill on HIS name. That worked. Joint account bank statements, every month since we opened it. Leases for both apartments; affidavit of my mom saying we pay her mortgage with receipts. We explained that utilities are included in the rent so that's why we didn't have any other bills except the mobiles. In 2012, he couldn't be added to the lease, so to prove residency we showed paystubs showing our address and dates. ALso some promotional junk mail (who knew it would work for something), dated 2012. 401K showing me as his beneficiary. 2 notarized letters of friends 27 photos Health insurances. I hope this works out!

It doesn't have to be you signing a fraudulent form; it can mean for example that they think your marriage is for immigration purposes only. How often have you guys met, and for how long? Are you of similar ages, educational level and religion? Are either of you recently divorced?

People are not denied based on personal opinions or whims of consulars or any such nonsense. Not understanding the process, or having very little actual knowledge of the process seems to often fuel that absurd conclusion, but that doesn't make it true. People's real red flags are often embarrassing though, and personal, and it's a whole lot easier to pin blame on consulars than aspects of one's own personal life, or the lives of friends and family. If anything, throughout MENA, even though a couple consulates are some of the most difficult in the world, overall they seem to err on the side of giving a visa in the most absurd of circumstances, rather than denying them. They're far more generous, forgiving, and understanding than they're given credit for here.

the reason is not that there is no enough evidences, i believe that the reason is your spouse did not do well in the interview with the CO, like language thing made the CO doubtful about how do you both communicate with such language, add to that, if you filled in the DS-260 that he speaks english and then ask for translator or do not speak english good enough, that will rise some red flags
I believe the evidences you have are more than enough, you really have strong evidences

I personally would say 50 pages is a lot of chat evidence.
My husband had his interview at the Casablanca Consulate on 10/10 and they gave him a 221g - because they wanted W2's, an i864A for my mothers spouse - as my mother is the co sponsor not her spouse and not the 1040s or IRS Tax Transcripts simply because they were to lazy to sit down and throughly go through the income information provided IMO and to then interview me the next week regardless that I was sitting outside the consulate and could have been easily called in the same day.
Before we even went to the interview I tried both via phone and email to call and clarify with the consulate immigrant visa section why they wanted this specific evidence with regards to the W2's and the i864A - which I had made the corrects to my mothers I864A per NVC instructions. No one responded to my emails except to finally email me to confirm my husband's interview date - so he could see the panel doctor.
So did you get a 221g or an out right denial just to clarify?
Did you or your spouse have any other evidence such as physical letters, photos, emails, receipts from trips etc that could back up your two year relationship that you took to the interview? Did the CO even ask to look at the items??
I personally find MANY denials are just based on the personal opinion of the consular officer rather than the evidence being lacking on the part of the couple going through the visa process. One such example is my friend who's husband was denied because when he was interviewed - he requested a translator because he felt shy and unconfident using his English with a stranger and wanted to make sure he understood what was being asked or said to him.
The CO who denied my friends husband did so because he couldn't convince the CO that he communicated with his wife in fluent English. If the CO wanted proof of the language skills of the person being interviewed - they should have asked for the results from a TOEFL exam - instead of believing my friends husband - they denied them and they had to reapply and wait another year and then got approved.
InshaAllah you soon get through this process and its a good first step to get legal immigration advice from a lawyer.
Ally & Omar

Exactly.....

You don't know what your "red flags" are and there are far more than you believe. It's not just the age difference, the secrecy from your family, the religious differences, and the pile you already know about.
But you keep on, knowing everything, and trying to find work-arounds. Let us know how that works out for you.

This thread is no place for bickering. And you will find you might get further, and may one day be taken seriously, if you drop the bolded, coloured, CAPS LOCK style of responding. Your post is hard on the eye, and difficult to read due to those affectations. If you think you have something useful to say, just do that.
When you have been around VJ long enough, you will understand why posters with experience do not sugar coat their responses. This OP has many issues, some of which he was unaware, and some which may be insurmountable. The "there, there, your love is true, your love is real" blather will not get the job done.

For those saying the OP situation is not uncommon, or claiming some posters may be judging him, please keep in mind the OP is looking for 'visa' advice, not relationship counseling. Egypt is top 5 most fraudulents countries when it comes to fiance/ marriage visa petitions. MENA countries are notorious for AP and denials due to red flags.
This will sound very very harsh and my intention is not to offend, but to shed light bluntly: going by the miniscule information the OP provided, this already sounds like textbook fraud. I am not accusing anyone; I'm simply pretending I'm the Consulate/ interviewer. The consular will see the older lady- assuming she's outside of child bearing age (which is another big red flag), who already has 2 kids, got separated and who petitioned for her fiance shortly after her divorce is finalized. This is not the cultural norm in the OP's country. So the consular will scrutinize tremendously.
Other red flags:
Religious differences? If none, did the petitioner convert after the relationship started?
Educational level?
Did the petitioner meet the OP's family and friends?
Is the petitioner sending money? (in some countries a red flag is all the way around: is the OP is sending money to the petitioner? It mey be seen as a pay out for the 'favor.')
Has the OP been petitioned for before by someone else?
Language barriers? (Someone in Egypt recently got denied for this particular reason)
There are others. Feel free to list them....

Thank you for this quote. The OP got very defensive and called this thread a waste of time, when indeed we've provided him with more answers than he expected. It is a BIG problem that a petitioner hasn't met the family, let alone an OP having a secret relatinoship. The day of our interview, 2 couples were denied exactly for this reason.
I'm glad you were approved.

Thank you for this quote. The OP got very defensive and called this thread a waste of time, when indeed we've provided him with more answers than he expected. It is a BIG problem that a petitioner hasn't met the family, let alone an OP having a secret relatinoship. The day of our interview, 2 couples were denied exactly for this reason.
I'm glad you were approved.

Hi Romet. I answered you in the age difference thread.
I understand about the divorce taking a long time; mine took 3 years and 26 court dates. Yes, 26 court dates. Thankfully it was finalized before I even met my husband, but things happen. It seems you can explain the timeline, so I don't think it's a huge issue.
The advice and suggestion I gave to you in the age difference thread still holds true. I wasn't really concerned about your petition until now. The fact that your parents and family don't know about her is potentially a big, big problem.
You are probably not familiar with what a Stokes interview is, but is a technique where the husband and wife are separated and they are interviewed apart from each other. This type of interview only happens when the CO expects fraud. This happened to me and my husband during our adjustment of status from his F1 student visa to legal permanent resident. These interviews usually last hours. Ours lasted 10-15 minutes. Why? Because, as we were going over photos, the CO came across one at his college graduation in Jordan with his parents, which I also attended. The conversation went something like this:
"Who are these people?"
"Those are O's parents."
"Oh, so you've met them?"
"Yes, many times. I've spent a lot of time at his house for dinners and meeting his siblings and other family."
"Okay, we are going to interview O now."
I also had tons of photos with me with O's friends. We went to coffee houses and to the woods to BBQ and all over the city.
He was in and out of the interview in a matter of minutes and we were approved the same day.
I'm not saying it is impossible for you to be approved with your secret relationship. I am saying, however, that this makes the red flags that you know about much more difficult to overcome, because it is not culturally nor religiously normal for a MENA man who is Muslim to marry without family approval.

IMHO, consider calling off the engagement and not marrying him. Your post is filled with scenarios that you believe will make you unhappy. You mention your fiance a couple of times and associated with the expectation of a bad experience. It seems obvious he won't change his lifestyle for you and expects you to make all the concessions. IMHO this is a recipe for a very unhappy marriage.
I don't mean to be insensitive or cruel and I apologize if that's how I sound, but it seems there is nothing in this relationship for you. Pragmatically, people need far more than love to make a happy union.
Good luck whatever your decision.

I disagree with previous posters.
If it was fraud then why would he say he wants to go back to his own country?
Being a bad husband doesn't make it fraud.
Possibly being a cheat doesn't make it fraud.
It only proves he's a jerk.
If the marriage is over then let him go back to his own country and both of you can move on.

Could it be that they have suspicions that the relationship isn't real since you were childhood friends and your parents are friends? The Consulate may suspect that you are only getting married so she can immigrate. What type of evidence did you submit and she have with her to support the validity of your relationship? That is the only thing I can really think of from what you have provided - for some reason they doubt the authenticity of your relationship.
Good luck on identifying what the problem was, because you will need to know what it is in order to address it so it doesn't cause any problems with a spousal visa. When your fiancee is able, do dissect the interview question by question. It may not be one specific question but a series of questions that will reveal their concerns.

You are lucky to be a country where you can say what you want and take this action to sue your own government. Have you filed the lawsuit yet? Or are you going to be like Congress and simply take a vacation to get in some more rounds of golf?
Have you contacted your Congressman and Senators to demand their voting record on immigration issues? Make an appointment with them to see them in person in their local office while they are on vacation so you can ask them in person.

What a bunch of nonsense. Seriously, blaming Obama for this is silly and childish.

What has NOT been mentioned, is what was the offense, that caused the 5 years probation?
Could this lead to a denial, even if you did meet?
Good, Luck, you are going to need it, regretfully, but this would be a truely miracle, by not having the "together time".,.,.positive proof., I am a short timer here, but I have not seen an approval, without, evidence of the "required meeting".,.,..,and the other requirement, "you are free to marry".,.,.,that is the two requirements for a K-1.
The attorney is probably a good idea.

Unless she applied for a tourist visa at least a couple of times and got denied, no chance of having the meeting requirement waived.
So you are on probation for another 5 years? Will you be able to travel at all during that time, say to Mexico for a weekend, or will you not be allowed to leave the country at all?

Does god approve of finding a new woman while still married? That's not defiling anything?

Dwheels runs the interview thread and takes note of how long it takes from Case complete from the NVC to get an interview date. If she is saying she still has people waiting from October 2013 for their interview dates, then that's likely how long it's taking. Whether you want to hear it or not, that's the way it is.
Also it takes 4-8 months for the I-130 unless both people live abroad, then it may take less time, sometimes. Then 2-4 months for the NVC stage. Then they need to assign an interview date, which for your country is about 6 months (180 days). Then if you are male, you likely have Administrative processing, where they do name checks and background checks. That can take a few weeks to years. It's best to be prepared.

lol. No, it is not an "other" story. It is an integral part of the present story, which is impossible to comment on effectively without you telling the whole story. YEARS ago, you had ample demonstration that something was terribly wrong.
Whenever you are trying to appeal to authorities as a victim, and you leave off 90% of the story in order to present the 10% that you want to hang your hat on, you are toast. Especially when that 10% is you marrying someone who is already married and you are by law required to put down on the application forms any previous marriages for both parties. Naiive is not an excuse for this. It says to write down previous marriages and dates of divorce. They are going to laugh in your face if you try to pull the "naiive" story because even if you believed the marriage was not valid in the USA that would not nullify it in Jamaica - and you were instructed to write ALL previous marriages down, not just the ones in the USA.
Immigration officials have heard it all. The police and judges have heard it all. and what they do when they hear a story like this is conclude you can't be trusted to tell the truth. Don't take this as a personal attack. Take it as frank advice that trying to pull the wool over the eyes of experienced people specifically charged with sniffing out fraud is going to make things worse for you, not better.

Before you leave the country, YOU NEED TO SPEAK WITH AN IMMIGRATION AND FAMILY ATTORNEY ASAP