US Students Lag in Science, Math

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Learning should not be a chore, as soon as it becomes one, you've lost.

That's ridiculous. Learning is hard work -- it's silly to suggest otherwise.

The world belongs to the self-disciplined. Children should form the habit of doing

things they don’t like, otherwise they'll have problems later in life.

Well said. I agree with that.

Edit: Learning should be challenging.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Learning should not be a chore, as soon as it becomes one, you've lost.

That's ridiculous. Learning is hard work -- it's silly to suggest otherwise.

The world belongs to the self-disciplined. Children should form the habit of doing

things they don’t like, otherwise they'll have problems later in life.

Well said. I agree with that.

Me too. My dad always told me that. I used to skip hw assignments if I didn't like them, he always told me that wasn't a choice. Some chores you just gotta do. Getting "turned off" isn't an option.

[Ban Hammer 12,830]

Learning should not be a chore, as soon as it becomes one, you've lost.

That's ridiculous. Learning is hard work -- it's silly to suggest otherwise.

The world belongs to the self-disciplined. Children should form the habit of doing

things they don’t like, otherwise they'll have problems later in life.

but little johnny still should get an A

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Learning should not be a chore, as soon as it becomes one, you've lost.

That's ridiculous. Learning is hard work -- it's silly to suggest otherwise.

The world belongs to the self-disciplined. Children should form the habit of doing

things they don’t like, otherwise they'll have problems later in life.

but little johnny still should get an A

LOL when I was young (in India, 5th grade) I remember a teacher telling me I get a 40/100 in General Science means I'm a "donkey" (i.e. I'm stupid). I sulked for months, I wouldn't study after that. Heck, I'm a donkey ####### is the point? Heehawww! Anyway so my parents got me into private tutoring for the stuff and I picked it up quick. Sometimes you need different strategies for different kids but the key is to not let them give up.

If the teacher hadn't given me that 40/100, I probably would have never gotten the extra help I needed.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Learning should not be a chore, as soon as it becomes one, you've lost.

That's ridiculous. Learning is hard work -- it's silly to suggest otherwise.

The world belongs to the self-disciplined. Children should form the habit of doing

things they don’t like, otherwise they'll have problems later in life.

but little johnny still should get an A

That's a whole other argument. The grades given in elementary school should be primarily a reflection of the children's proficiency more than anything. The report cards do reflect that. So little johnny would still show A's on his test scores, while only a C for not turning in all his homework.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Not every parent has an hour to spend with their child every night helping them with homework.

If you don't have one hour to spend with your child, maybe you should reconsider having children?

I think the problem isn't the time to spend with the kids, but that the school does a half-assed job of teaching and then sends the kids home to learn it from their parents. It's like all those science projects where you can tell the kids that won had mom or dad do it for them, except it's daily homework. And if the kid doesn't learn, it just must be because his parents aren't any good.

Cute. But if the curriculum says that the kids are in school seven hours a day and need to do four hours of homework in first grade, that's bad curriculum design. Probably not be the fault of the teacher, who has to put up with a lot of external regulation. But if we were getting better results thirty years ago with less homework, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it's just possible that the newest requirements aren't actually reasonable.

I'm not sure why we expect parents to be school teachers. We should expect them to make sure their kid does the homework, and have a quiet place to do it, but that's not at all what homework looks like.

Curriculum has changed over the last 40 years...I seriously doubt parents have changed all that much...something isn't working.

Want to take a stab at comparing the number of two parent households 40 years ago vs. today and maybe the percentage of households with one major breadwinner and one homemaker then and now? The American family - or broader: the American household - has undergone dramatic changes over the last 40 years and I suspect that these dramatic changes yield a good bit of the explanation for today's student achievement or lack thereof.

That doesn't explain the extra homework in wealthy districts with stay-at-home moms and careerist dads, which is actually where a lot of the trend of overparenting is happening. Plus, 30 years ago, your mom wasn't told that part of her 'job' in ensuring 'your child's academic success' was to spend four hours a night drilling you in new math. There have been societal changes, but NCLB is a bad law and it isn't working.

Did I say anything to the contrary?

[Peikko 1,575]

That's ridiculous. Learning is hard work -- it's silly to suggest otherwise.

The world belongs to the self-disciplined. Children should form the habit of doing

things they don’t like, otherwise they'll have problems later in life.

Clearly you don't have kids

Young kids learn intuitively, that's their job, that's what they do. If they learn things without realising they are learning, they learn it easily, it's not consciously difficult.

That's not to say they have a life of ease, or that they don't have to do things they don't like. They should and they do. However, making school learning more difficult than it needs to be, or more boring than it needs to be is really just giving the teacher work they don't need.

[Peikko 1,575]

I am talking elementary level, not high school.

[mawilson 2,133]

Young kids learn intuitively, that's their job, that's what they do. If they learn things without realising they are learning, they learn it easily, it's not consciously difficult.

There's only so much you can learn without realizing you're learning.

It's also deceptive. There's nothing wrong with telling the kids straight out

what you think they should learn. Why do you assume they're not going to

like learning if they knew what they were doing? Just because you don't

like it, doesn't mean they don't. Perhaps you're the one who needs the help?

[Peikko 1,575]

Help with what exactly? Not sure I follow you.

I am all for learning, I just don't believe that it should be made out to be harder than it needs to be, or that it should be a drudge. Many things can be learned in a way that is fun and in so doing, the learning is easier on everyone. Why do you want it be be boring or a chore?

One example, a kid who reads a lot learns how to spell and how to use grammar without having to sit and learn lists. They can be fine tuned but they have learned most of it without knowing they are doing it.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Purple_Hibiscus

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Help with what exactly? Not sure I follow you.

I am all for learning, I just don't believe that it should be made out to be harder than it needs to be, or that it should be a drudge. Many things can be learned in a way that is fun and in so doing, the learning is easier on everyone. Why do you want it be be boring or a chore?

One example, a kid who reads a lot learns how to spell and how to use grammar without having to sit and learn lists. They can be fine tuned but they have learned most of it without knowing they are doing it.

But learning isn't just on a cognitive level. Developing habits of self discipline is also a form of learning.

[almaty 19]

Learning should not be a chore, as soon as it becomes one, you've lost.

That's ridiculous. Learning is hard work -- it's silly to suggest otherwise.

The world belongs to the self-disciplined. Children should form the habit of doing

things they don’t like, otherwise they'll have problems later in life.

but little johnny still should get an A

LOL when I was young (in India, 5th grade) I remember a teacher telling me I get a 40/100 in General Science means I'm a "donkey" (i.e. I'm stupid). I sulked for months, I wouldn't study after that. Heck, I'm a donkey ####### is the point? Heehawww! Anyway so my parents got me into private tutoring for the stuff and I picked it up quick. Sometimes you need different strategies for different kids but the key is to not let them give up.

If the teacher hadn't given me that 40/100, I probably would have never gotten the extra help I needed.

#######? you should have been proud...a donkey/burro is a noble beast..i hope the teacher got stoned too death

[Peikko 1,575]

Developing habits of self discipline is also a form of learning.

It is but it doesn't have to be associated with homework at elementary level. Within the home there are many, many opportunities to learn self discipline. Why would I want a child to associate "I have to do this because I need to learn self discipline" with something that should be fun, like reading and Math?

[edp333 9]

But learning isn't just on a cognitive level. Developing habits of self discipline is also a form of learning.

Learning falls into three categories: objective, cognitive, and constructivism. Let's not fprget about the Einstein Factor. Albert was told he would amount to nothing in school.

[HAL 9000 96]

Interesting bump