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My roc evidence list... is it good enough?

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i didn't opt for health insurance with my wife cos it was expensive and i have been to doctor once in 20 years. i never felt need for insurance, if i need to i will pay cash. 

we have joint cd account , savings , checking and five or six joint credit cards with good amount of usage every month.

6/4/20             Approved

 

10/30/2019    I-751 accepted  SRC

 

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2 simple rules with ROC evidence:

  • Submit evidence across the following domains, but especially the first two: 1) cohabitation (you live together), 2) co-mingling of finances (you share financial arrangements), 3) shared life experiences, and 4) planning for the future together.
  • For whatever you submit, where possible, submit evidence from marriage to application date. Yes, from marriage.

So, assuming you got married in 2017:

 

On 11/3/2019 at 11:12 AM, gp123 said:

Cohabitation

  • Driver’s License of Petitioner and US Citizen Spouse with same address

  • US Citizen Spouse, Petitioner pay stubs (2018 - 2019) - I disagree with some other comment; this is very strong evidence, as it should have your address

  • USPS mail received for me and spouse at same current address (2017 - 2019)

  • Natural Gas Bill with both our names listed and current address (2017 - 2019) - 1 bill per quarter (roughly)

  • Water Bill with both our names listed and current address  (2017 - 2019)- 1 bill per quarter (roughly)

  • At&t internet Bill  (Petitioner) with our current address  (2017 - 2019) - 1 bill per quarter (roughly)

  • Electric Bill  (US Citizen Spouse)  with our current address  (2017 - 2019) - 1 bill per quarter (roughly)

  • House payment paid from joint bank checking account (2018 - 2019) - highlight this in your cover letter, use pencil to point to this on statement

  • Lease agreements with both names, 1 per year. If not, have your affidavit writers say what your address is, whether they attended parties there, etc.

Co-mingling finances (You have several bank/credit card statements. I've crossed out some, but you can better choose the ones with the most transaction history or corroborate other evidence, like your "house payments." Quality over quantity).

  • Car Insurance for two cars with both our names listed (2017 - 2019)

  • Joint Tax filing IRS Transcripts, W-2’s and Returns (2017, 2018)

  • Joint Petitioner and US Citizen Spouse car purchase Honda(2018)

  • Joint Petitioner and US Citizen Spouse car purchase Chevrolet (2019)

  • Joint Capital One 360 Checking account (2017 - 2019) - 1 statement per quarter (roughly)

  • Joint Citibank credit card statements (2018 - 2019) - 1 statement per quarter (roughly)

  • Joint Barclays credit card statements (2018 - 2019) - 1 statement per quarter (roughly)

  • Bank Quick Pay, Zelle Pay transfers between me and Spouse  (2013 - 2019) - 1 confirmation per year (roughly), beginning in 2017

  • Bank Savings account with spouse listed as beneficiary (2018 - 2019) - 1 statement per quarter (roughly)

  • Joint best buy credit card statements (2018 - 2019)

  • Joint walmart credit card statements (2018 - 2019)

  • Joint Amazon, Capital One credit cards 

  • House Lawn Care paid with joint bank checking account check’s (2018 - 2019)

  • T-Mobile Family Plan cell phone Bill with current address (2016 - 2019)

  • New car Hyundai Tucson joint registration

  •  

Shared Life Experiences

  • Photos - 40 is a lot; I'd choose 8-10 that best corroborate other evidence of shared life experiences, as shown with SD trip below.

  • Birth certificates of kids you have together, if applicable

  • Paid with joint Barclays credit card

    • US Citizen Spouse hospital admit bill

    • San Diego vacation bookings for Petitioner, Spouse and Step Daughter + photos from trip

    • Other trip bookings and photos (1 per year, if possible)

    • US Citizen Spouse work trip flight ticket

  • Two affidavit letters from people who know both of us and our marriage

  • Paid with joint Citibank credit card

    • Step Daughter Birthday gift apple airpods, Christmas gift xbox console

    • Apple Iphone 11 for US citizen spouse purchased with joint citi credit card

    • Amazon.com purchases (2018 - 2019)

    • Petitioner british airways flight

    • Youtube TV live TV service monthly subscription (2018 - 2019)

    • US Citizen Spouse car PikePass (2018 - 2019)

    • HP printer ink purchased with joint citi credit card

    •  

  • Apple ipad for US citizen spouse purchased at best buy

Joint Planning for the Future (Not super-important, but you probably have some)

  • Retirement account statements with each other listed as beneficiary (2017, 2018, 2019) - 1 per year
  • Education savings account statements for kids
  • Wills, etc.

 

Edited by afrocraft
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Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: China
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2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Wills etc are very good evidence to send. Yes they can be changed, but they are good legal documents to have that show a co-mingling of life and in some states require witnesses or notarization. We used legal zoom, and though we will probably use a lawyer and change them at a later date they do express important wishes and decisions that are important for future or emergencies.

 

Do you have anything that shows joint health insurance, or pension plans, or life insurance policies showing beneficiaries? 

As I mentioned before, it is all about presenting in your petition marital bonafides to the satisfaction of the USCIS adjudicator that finally processes your petition. Included in this topic: adequate evidence of cohabitation, adequate evidence of joint child-rearing, adequate evidence of commingling of finances, adequate evidence of intimacy, and affidavits. Speaking specifically about commingling of finances, you need to show joint bank, stock, loan documents, credit card statements, tax returns; all manner of joint insurance (health, home, life, property, etc.); joint utility bills; joint property deeds, titles, etc.; life insurance policies, trusts, wills, where the spouse is the beneficiary. A change in beneficiary in the last category is possible, but may be restricted by law, or requires current beneficiary's signed approval (depending on the instrument and/or local/national laws/regulations). Or could be a subject of future litigation....

 

I daresay, that the last category, affidavits is the weakest marriage bonafide evidence of the entire lot. It would be relatively easy to get someone or multiple people to sign  document(s) saying that they have known both of you for "x" number of years, you are the salt of the earth, leap tall buildings at a single bound, and you guys make such a cute couple, etc..... and get the signature on the piece of paper notarized. This could be accomplished by simply employing  coercion, inducement, intimidation, etc. 

 

The slow, trudging USCIS bureaucracy get it wrong sometimes, but generally, they do a pretty good job at weeding out the scam or fraudulent marriages. 

 

Good luck on your immigration journey.

Completed: K1/K2 (271 days) - AOS/EAD/AP (134 days) - ROC (279 days)

"Si vis amari, ama" - Seneca

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Pitaya said:

As I mentioned before, it is all about presenting in your petition marital bonafides to the satisfaction of the USCIS adjudicator that finally processes your petition....The slow, trudging USCIS bureaucracy get it wrong sometimes, but generally, they do a pretty good job at weeding out the scam or fraudulent marriages....

I disagree with the sentiment expressed in the underlined portions above. I get what you mean, but in fact: 1) adjudication of ROC applications isn't as subjective as you make it to be; and 2) the big scam about ROC is that it's possible even for fraudulent marriages to evade detection. The reason is for these is that the legal standard for reviewing evidence (preponderance of the evidence) and the scope of evidence requested (from marriage to the time of application) are clear and not overly burdensome with advance planning.

 

The problem is that most applicants just mash together evidence without a clear framework, and often do so a few weeks to application date. They blindly follow evidence lists on VJ and other forums without applying them to their own specific contexts (e.g., submitting joint bank account statements a few weeks before applying, so have limited history of transactions showing joint financial responsibility).  

 

I almost wish we didn't have such lists of suggested evidence. People just need to understand that they only have to:

  • Show that they live together, share everyday financial responsibilities, share life experiences, and plan for the future together as a married couple;
  • Show that they have been doing all the above from marriage to the present time; and
  • Show the above through different kinds of evidence that corroborate each other.
Edited by afrocraft
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How does pay stubs prove anything other than the petitioner was being paid and apparently lives at said address.  It doesn't show co-mingling of finances.  at BEST it may show co-habitation.  But it's pretty flimsy.  You may as well include a piece of junk mail that says "petitioner name or current resident."  

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.  - Dr. Seuss

 

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there is no hard and fast rule that roc is all about commingling finances. its all about you guys say what your are.. actually married and living together and doing stuff. if it was a marriage for green card it's pretty rare you actually have access to each others pay stubs.

 

i believe that is more important for roc than some will which can be nullified next day by making a different will after the package is sent.

6/4/20             Approved

 

10/30/2019    I-751 accepted  SRC

 

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14 hours ago, gp123 said:

there is no hard and fast rule that roc is all about commingling finances. its all about you guys say what your are.. actually married and living together and doing stuff. if it was a marriage for green card it's pretty rare you actually have access to each others pay stubs.

 

i believe that is more important for roc than some will which can be nullified next day by making a different will after the package is sent.

Buying a tv with a joint credit card and showing that receipt is useless.  So is someone's pay stubs. 

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.  - Dr. Seuss

 

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depends on what's on the receipt,  most of my best buy receipts show my card or her card and who picked up the order.

they don't have time to go through each statement to see what was purchased, sending it like this  just makes it easy for them to see quicky what and who purchased it.

 

paystubs with same current address is way better evidence than wills or power of attorney as they are not binding as one can change them anytime.

6/4/20             Approved

 

10/30/2019    I-751 accepted  SRC

 

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OP: You asked if your list was good enough. Many posters have made suggestions of how to improve. If you think what you have got is the best, then how can we help you?

Our Journey Timeline  - Immigration and the Health Exchange Price of Love in the UK Thinking of Returning to UK?

 

First met: 12/31/04 - Engaged: 9/24/09
Filed I-129F: 10/4/14 - Packet received: 10/7/14
NOA 1 email + ARN assigned: 10/10/14 (hard copy 10/17/14)
Touched on website (fixed?): 12/9/14 - Poked USCIS: 4/1/15
NOA 2 email: 5/4/15 (hard copy 5/11/15)
Sent to NVC: 5/8/15 - NVC received + #'s assigned: 5/15/15 (estimated)
NVC sent: 5/19/15 - London received/ready: 5/26/15
Packet 3: 5/28/15 - Medical: 6/16/15
Poked London 7/1/15 - Packet 4: 7/2/15
Interview: 7/30/15 - Approved!
AP + Issued 8/3/15 - Visa in hand (depot): 8/6/15
POE: 8/27/15

Wedding: 9/30/15

Filed I-485, I-131, I-765: 11/7/15

Packet received: 11/9/15

NOA 1 txt/email: 11/15/15 - NOA 1 hardcopy: 11/19/15

Bio: 12/9/15

EAD + AP approved: 1/25/16 - EAD received: 2/1/16

RFE for USCIS inability to read vax instructions: 5/21/16 (no e-notification & not sent from local office!)

RFE response sent: 6/7/16 - RFE response received 6/9/16

AOS approved/card in production: 6/13/16  

NOA 2 hardcopy + card sent 6/17/16

Green Card received: 6/18/16

USCIS 120 day reminder notice: 2/22/18

Filed I-751: 5/2/18 - Packet received: 5/4/18

NOA 1:  5/29/18 (12 mo ext) 8/13/18 (18 mo ext)  - Bio: 6/27/18

Transferred: Potomac Service Center 3/26/19

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i did but some of you guys seem to think the standard template of generic stuff is the only important stuff.

i sent them anyway, i take advice but ultimately i decide what i want to send.  no harm in sending what i feel will help my case. 

 

all the posts here are reference only nobody actually knows what they actually look at when deciding roc.

 

infact my IO for 485 actually told me to collect all receipts  when filing for ROC.

 

i will let you guys know how my case went in a year or so.

 

Edited by gp123

6/4/20             Approved

 

10/30/2019    I-751 accepted  SRC

 

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