JOB TERMINATION- HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS?

[Mrs Ryan Carreras 247]

21 minutes ago, 2019Xray said:

Didn't you ask me technical questions during the 1/2 round of interviews that we had regarding this position and I answered them? 

Then I loose the job, apply for another. And the same cycle repeats itself. 

Did you maybe sign a non compete ? Are you from a small town where word travels fast ? 
I ask this as I have had this happen in my industry. 
I would still mark “no” on the application. 
They then can not verify anything with your last employer when you check this box. 
I would say 90 percent of my applications that is checked as normally. 
That should avoid them even in a back ground besides seeing you were employed through the check. However, they do not contact them to verify.   
Be careful not to get blacklisted in your industry and when interviewing .. if and when they ask for why you left than tell them you were looking for a better fit. 
I only ask since you said the potential employers bring up your supervisor and/or your being told “hear-say” from other employees still there. 
 

I only ask to help. Make sure and mark “no” and I’d stop any talk about your last employment with others just in case. 

 

Is it right? No, I hate termination but always try and help the applicant move on. 
 

I’m sorry this happened to you. 
 

Also make sure no “non-compete” was signed during PIP or prior. companies will try and do this and then future employment in your area is difficult. 
 

If you have done so than that could be another reason this is happening and I would seek an attorney. 
 

You can always PM me if you have questions but I can only go based on my experience and what I’ve seen in the IT/Sales industry. 
 

 

[2019Xray (2) 0]

2 hours ago, JeanneAdil said:

The employer still could face a defamation (libel or slander) lawsuit from the employee or a negligent referral lawsuit from the prospective employer if care was not taken in limiting the type of information provided and making sure that the information was given to the correct person.

States that do not have an immunity statute, including New York and Massachusetts, make it more difficult for the employer to provide reference information to prospective employers,

 

This was stated on the following  and we were told (at my former job) to not provide references unless we wanted to be held personally responsible 

 

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/can-employers-give-a-bad-reference-for-a-former-employee.aspx

 

each state has different laws and each company different rules,  but seems you have a good law suit and should follow up on it 

lawyer can file a civil suit for lost wages and ruining your career 

just be sure of your proofs and witnesses

This was informative. I don't know if I can send a letter stating that for any further inquiry,  I should get a copy of a written response sent to potential employer.  

 

I am just tired and hoping for an end to this drama.

[Nitas_man 3,100]

6 hours ago, 2019Xray said:

 

Yes. You're right. 

Nonetheless, as much as you can fire me for no reason, it's not ethical to be fired then again taint your image to the point where you cannot get another job. That's where I'm disagreeing with. It would have been better just to ask me to put my 2 weeks notice and leave. I don't know what the hurry was to push me out. I had personal files on the computer.  They are already wiped out and as such, I have no evidence. 

 

Then HR called and tells me they have a lot of evidence against me. I asked for a share, they refused saying it's company property. Basically,  they accused me, gathered evidence, fired me yet they don't want to even verify those accusations? To them, I'm guilty. 

“Evidence” of what?  

 

My only comment:  Blackballing former employees is dangerous.  We are prohibited from saying anything positive or negative about former employees due to potential liability.

 

https://checkyourreference.com/reference-checking-services-for-job-seekers/

 

Call them, pay the fee, and you’ll find out exactly what your former employer is saying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Nitas_man

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, 2019Xray said:

Never heard of this before. I thought references were former colleagues? And why would I put a colleague who will talk negative about me?

 

 

  As a matter of policy, HR departments don't want to say anything that could get them in trouble. When a potential new employer is contacting an old employer, this will be the call they are making to HR.  If they choose to call your references, that will be the people you list on your resume. Unfortunately it is still common that someone at the new company might know someone at the old company and just call and ask what they think "off the record". This may be what is causing you issues.

[Mrs Ryan Carreras 247]

4 minutes ago, Nitas_man said:

My only comment:  Blackballing former employees is dangerous.  We are prohibited from saying anything positive or negative about former employees due to potential liability.

However, other colleagues “hear-say” is not. 
Many communication with the last employer should be HR only as something appears signed that he is not aware of or terms. 
If he signed he would not use computer or phone for personal use, not good. 
 

unfortunately in small towns the competition is fierce and the “hear-say” is like telephone and people chat amongst themselves. 
 

Find the source of your issue. It’s somewhere in your last employment. 
 

I see why and how they fired but the rest is a bit of a mystery. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 hours ago, geowrian said:

That's fine for an opinion, but no such right is recognized in the US. Employment is at-will and one can be fired for any reason (barring a very limited set of discriminatory circumstances). You do not "let somebody fire you"....they fire you if they choose to do so and no reason is required.

 

 

  In practice, it's very common to have a step process and have everything documented and have a valid reason given. A reason is not required to fire someone, but not giving a reason is something that leaves an employer open to allegations that the employee was fired for a reason that is not allowed by law. 

 

  Everyone I know who has been fired has gone through the process of a verbal warning, written warning, corrective action and final warning. HR has documented everything the employee does as if it's a legal case, because they are preparing to defend against that eventuality. Obviously every employer's policy is different, but I think in general, it's rare as an employee not to see something coming and also rare not to know why. It does happen though.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

So you applied for jobs, they initially offered you a job dependent on completing their normal hiring process.

 

They withdrew the offers, you do not know why, you have a suspicion.

 

I do not see where any legal action arises, what would be the basis?

 

  Possibly anything the previous employer said about the former employee to the potential new employer.  Except hire date, separation date, and if the employee is eligible for rehire.

 

  

[geowrian 22,335]

4 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

In practice, it's very common to have a step process and have everything documented and have a valid reason given. A reason is not required to fire someone, but not giving a reason is something that leaves an employer open to allegations that the employee was fired for a reason that is not allowed by law. 

 

  Everyone I know who has been fired has gone through the process of a verbal warning, written warning, corrective action and final warning. HR has documented everything the employee does as if it's a legal case, because they are preparing to defend against that eventuality. Obviously every employer's policy is different, but I think in general, it's rare as an employee not to see something coming and also rare not to know why. It does happen though.

I agree that employers do tend to document things beforehand to protect themselves. My point was they do it out of an abundance of caution - they don't have to turn it over unless compelled by court or arbitration. It's a CYA maneuver in case somebody tries to make such an allegation.

That said, there is no claim that the firing here was illegal, so it's a bit of a moot point. It would only be an issue if they released that information to others, such as potential employers (which is extremely unlikely IMO).

 

1 minute ago, Steeleballz said:

Possibly anything the previous employer said about the former employee to the potential new employer.  Except hire date, separation date, and if the employee is eligible for rehire. 

Yes, but how does one get at that info? Right now it's just suspicion.

Edited September 26, 2019 by geowrian

[2019Xray (2) 0]

19 minutes ago, Sarah n Ryan said:

Did you maybe sign a non compete ? No

Are you from a small town where word travels fast ? No. One in the top 6 biggest towns in the state. 
I ask this as I have had this happen in my industry. 
I would still mark “no” on the application. I always do this too
They then can not verify anything with your last employer when you check this box. 
I would say 90 percent of my applications that is checked as normally. 
That should avoid them even in a back ground besides seeing you were employed through the check. However, they do not contact them to verify.   
Be careful not to get blacklisted in your industry and when interviewing .. if and when they ask for why you left than tell them you were looking for a better fit. I understand. This is what I say 
I only ask since you said the potential employers bring up your supervisor and/or your being told “hear-say” from other employees still there. 
 

I only ask to help. Make sure and mark “no” and I’d stop any talk about your last employment with others just in case. 

 

Is it right? No, I hate termination but always try and help the applicant move on. 
 

I’m sorry this happened to you. 
 

Also make sure no “non-compete” was signed during PIP or prior. companies will try and do this and then future employment in your area is difficult. 
 

If you have done so than that could be another reason this is happening and I would seek an attorney. 
 

You can always PM me if you have questions but I can only go based on my experience and what I’ve seen in the IT/Sales industry. 

12 minutes ago, Sarah n Ryan said:

However, other colleagues “hear-say” is not. 
Many communication with the last employer should be HR only as something appears signed that he is not aware of or terms. 
If he signed he would not use computer or phone for personal use, not good. 
 

unfortunately in small towns the competition is fierce and the “hear-say” is like telephone and people chat amongst themselves. 
 

Find the source of your issue. It’s somewhere in your last employment. This is my point exactly.  Yet they don't seem interested in letting me go
 

I see why and how they fired but the rest is a bit of a mystery. How do you see that? Maybe share with me. I don't bite. Hahah

 

 

[Mrs Ryan Carreras 247]

7 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

In practice, it's very common to have a step process and have everything documented and have a valid reason given. A reason is not required to fire someone, but not giving a reason is something that leaves an employer open to allegations that the employee was fired for a reason that is not allowed by law. 

He was put on a PIP- that is what you are describing by the way just another term for it. 
Performance Improvement Plan. 

[2019Xray (2) 0]

22 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  As a matter of policy, HR departments don't want to say anything that could get them in trouble. When a potential new employer is contacting an old employer, this will be the call they are making to HR.  If they choose to call your references, that will be the people you list on your resume. Unfortunately it is still common that someone at the new company might know someone at the old company and just call and ask what they think "off the record". This may be what is causing you issues. Off the record is what I was inclining to since these people personally know each other. Heck, even the first company that rescinded the offer is right across the street. 

 

28 minutes ago, Nitas_man said:

“Evidence” of what?  I don't know. God knows I asked. She said it. I asked for it. She refused. I cited this in the email I sent back to the CEO regarding this issue. They've all ignored me.

 

My only comment:  Blackballing former employees is dangerous.  We are prohibited from saying anything positive or negative about former employees due to potential liability.

 

https://checkyourreference.com/reference-checking-services-for-job-seekers/

 

Call them, pay the fee, and you’ll find out exactly what your former employer is saying.

 

Hold on. I did not know I can do this. Lemme get this done later tonight and hopefully there is some insight.  Nonetheless, I'll share my findings with VJ. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by 2019Xray (2)

[Steeleballz 7,550]

5 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I agree that employers do tend to document things beforehand to protect themselves. My point was they do it out of an abundance of caution - they don't have to turn it over unless compelled by court or arbitration. It's a CYA maneuver in case somebody tries to make such an allegation.

That said, there is no claim that the firing here was illegal, so it's a bit of a moot point. It would only be an issue if they released that information to others, such as potential employers (which is extremely unlikely IMO).

 

Yes, but how does one get at that info? Right now it's just suspicion.

 

  Other than hiring an attorney I'm not sure how you would get any of that information. 

 

  Nitas_man had the suggestion above about using a reference service. I'm not really familiar with that, but it sounds like something to look into. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

6 minutes ago, Sarah n Ryan said:

He was put on a PIP- that is what you are describing by the way just another term for it. 
Performance Improvement Plan. 

 

  It might be the same thing. For ours, the employee will meet with the supervisor and HR, but they also will be aware that they are being given a verbal warning, or written warning or final action or whatever step it is at the time. The only time it is different is if someone does something that warrants immediate termination. They are always given the reason though.

[2019Xray (2) 0]

15 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  In practice, it's very common to have a step process and have everything documented and have a valid reason given. A reason is not required to fire someone, but not giving a reason is something that leaves an employer open to allegations that the employee was fired for a reason that is not allowed by law. 

 

  Everyone I know who has been fired has gone through the process of a verbal warning, written warning, corrective action and final warning. None of this applied to me. As I stated,  I walked in on the 26th of June 2019, only to find an email saying I had a PIP. That PIP was supposed to be my dismissal date but HR had "intervened" for a second chance. As soon as they got my signature on that PIP, they fired me. I've seen other people go back to their desk to pick their stuff. My case was different. I was told I cannot do that. VP went to my desk and brought my stuff. He then escorted me through the side door into the hallway, took my entrance card, shook my hand and poop. That was it. Calls followed me later from friends who were actually surprised.  I swear, if I know why I was fired, I won't even be here. 

 

HR has documented everything the employee does as if it's a legal case, because they are preparing to defend against that eventuality. Obviously every employer's policy is different, but I think in general, it's rare as an employee not to see something coming and also rare not to know why. It does happen though. Up until the PIP, HR had nothing on me. It seems they needed something, hence the PIP

 

[2019Xray (2) 0]

18 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I agree that employers do tend to document things beforehand to protect themselves. My point was they do it out of an abundance of caution - they don't have to turn it over unless compelled by court or arbitration. It's a CYA maneuver in case somebody tries to make such an allegation.

That said, there is no claim that the firing here was illegal, so it's a bit of a moot point. It would only be an issue if they released that information to others, such as potential employers (which is extremely unlikely IMO).

 

Yes, but how does one get at that info? Right now it's just suspicion.

I am trying to avoid these suspicions. It's been 2 months. But how can it end while HR has refused to even share what they have? It's my personal career info. They gave me a generic dismissal letter yet it seems they have one which has more explanations. They don't want to share it.