Why my Family based visa petition requires Joint Sponsor?

[AndrewChou 1]

Hello everyone on Visa Journey.

My name is Andrew. I have a family of 5. My family has a family based immigrating case to the USA. In 2006, my aunt (My mom's sister) has filed a petition to the USCIS and was received. By the beginning of 2019, the NVC notifies us that they received the case from the USCIS, and we can begin submitting the required document to them. We have submitted everything including i-864, income tax of petitioner...etc. However, my aunt's annual income is not enough to sponsor a total household size of 6 (My family and her). But my aunt did have assets (Savings account bank balance) of over five times the difference between requirement 125% poverty guideline for 6 household members and her current annual income. All of that wasn't much of a problem. By May 2019,  the NVC received and approved all the documents submitted, and they send the case to the US embassy in Phnom Penh, Cambodia to schedule an appointment. We were being scheduled for an interview on July 16th 2019. We attended the interview. Everything seems to be fine at first until the consular requested for a joint sponsor in order to proceed to any further step. We have tried to convince the consular that we have a lot of assets; however, the consular still request for it anyway. I don't know why the consular won't accept the assets that my aunt has and still need the joint sponsor. Can anyone please provide me with any solution to this kind of situation?

PS: I have tried to submit the i-864 for joint sponsor into the CEAC platform. We have found 2 joint sponsor. The first sponsor is responsible for sponsoring my mom, my older brother and me. While the second is responsible for my dad and my younger brother. Even the joint sponsors' income is over the 125% poverty guideline for household size of 4 (First joint sponsor + my mom+ my older brother+ me) and 3 (Second joint sponsor + my dad + my younger brother), the CEAC platform keeps rejecting the documents stating their income is not enough. Need help!!!

Thanks in advance!

[SalishSea 16,746]

1 hour ago, AndrewChou said:

Hello everyone on Visa Journey.

My name is Andrew. I have a family of 5. My family has a family based immigrating case to the USA. In 2006, my aunt (My mom's sister) has filed a petition to the USCIS and was received. By the beginning of 2019, the NVC notifies us that they received the case from the USCIS, and we can begin submitting the required document to them. We have submitted everything including i-864, income tax of petitioner...etc. However, my aunt's annual income is not enough to sponsor a total household size of 6 (My family and her). But my aunt did have assets (Savings account bank balance) of over five times the difference between requirement 125% poverty guideline for 6 household members and her current annual income. All of that wasn't much of a problem. By May 2019,  the NVC received and approved all the documents submitted, and they send the case to the US embassy in Phnom Penh, Cambodia to schedule an appointment. We were being scheduled for an interview on July 16th 2019. We attended the interview. Everything seems to be fine at first until the consular requested for a joint sponsor in order to proceed to any further step. We have tried to convince the consular that we have a lot of assets; however, the consular still request for it anyway. I don't know why the consular won't accept the assets that my aunt has and still need the joint sponsor. Can anyone please provide me with any solution to this kind of situation?

PS: I have tried to submit the i-864 for joint sponsor into the CEAC platform. We have found 2 joint sponsor. The first sponsor is responsible for sponsoring my mom, my older brother and me. While the second is responsible for my dad and my younger brother. Even the joint sponsors' income is over the 125% poverty guideline for household size of 4 (First joint sponsor + my mom+ my older brother+ me) and 3 (Second joint sponsor + my dad + my younger brother), the CEAC platform keeps rejecting the documents stating their income is not enough. Need help!!!

Thanks in advance!

Not sure what type of help you’re looking for here, but the CO has discretion when determining an immigrant’s risk of becoming a public charge within the laws governing that.  

 

So, if they’re saying you need a joint sponsor, then you need one.  There is no waiver or way around that.

[designguy 1,179]

1 hour ago, AndrewChou said:

PS: I have tried to submit the i-864 for joint sponsor into the CEAC platform. We have found 2 joint sponsor. The first sponsor is responsible for sponsoring my mom, my older brother and me. While the second is responsible for my dad and my younger brother. Even the joint sponsors' income is over the 125% poverty guideline for household size of 4 (First joint sponsor + my mom+ my older brother+ me) and 3 (Second joint sponsor + my dad + my younger brother), the CEAC platform keeps rejecting the documents stating their income is not enough. Need help!!!

Thanks in advance!

Is it possible to even split up the joint sponsors to allocate them to specific beneficiaries as you are saying in CEAC if they are under the same case number?'

 

Keep in mind that the 125% poverty guideline is a minimum requirement to be met in order to be considered it does not mean once you cross the threshold you are guaranteed an approval. It might be the large family size is a concern for the CO and they want to see more substantial income from the sponsor(s). Also note the at the COs are not required to accept asset, its at their discretion. If you are getting a rejection that their income is not high enough then you will need to find a new sponsor to replace one of the current joint sponsors as you can use a maximum of 2 join sponsors

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

Just checking, your aunt and the joint sponsors have no other family members in their households?

 

 

 

[AndrewChou 1]

16 hours ago, Jorgedig said:

Not sure what type of help you’re looking for here, but the CO has discretion when determining an immigrant’s risk of becoming a public charge within the laws governing that.  

 

So, if they’re saying you need a joint sponsor, then you need one.  There is no waiver or way around that.

I’m just wondering why would the consular asked our family for a joint sponsor while my aunt’s money is over five times the lacking income gap...! I read the requirement on income and how to use assets to substitute the gap. However, the consular still ask for it anyway. And another thing to mention is during the interview, the consular didn’t even mention anything about my aunt’s money, and they only mention that her income is too low. Normally, when they see a petition with low income, are they going to assume that he or she doesn’t have enough assets to substitute? Is this the reason that a joint sponsor is needed? 

[AndrewChou 1]

15 hours ago, designguy said:

Is it possible to even split up the joint sponsors to allocate them to specific beneficiaries as you are saying in CEAC if they are under the same case number?'

 

Keep in mind that the 125% poverty guideline is a minimum requirement to be met in order to be considered it does not mean once you cross the threshold you are guaranteed an approval. It might be the large family size is a concern for the CO and they want to see more substantial income from the sponsor(s). Also note the at the COs are not required to accept asset, its at their discretion. If you are getting a rejection that their income is not high enough then you will need to find a new sponsor to replace one of the current joint sponsors as you can use a maximum of 2 join sponsors

For splitting up, I’m not sure if this would work. But I have asked a local attorney about this method, they said it’s not commonly used but it is POSSIBLE. And if splitting up wouldn’t work, so what is the point of having two joint sponsors? To have more assurance? 

What I’m not sure about splitting up is does each joint sponsor have to fulfill the income requirement of total household size (6) or only the income requirement of only the family members they are including in their i864?

9 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

Just checking, your aunt and the joint sponsors have no other family members in their households?

 

 

 

Yes, my aunt, she doesn’t have any family members. Same for the joint sponsors. 

[SalishSea 16,746]

45 minutes ago, AndrewChou said:

I’m just wondering why would the consular asked our family for a joint sponsor while my aunt’s money is over five times the lacking income gap...! I read the requirement on income and how to use assets to substitute the gap. However, the consular still ask for it anyway. And another thing to mention is during the interview, the consular didn’t even mention anything about my aunt’s money, and they only mention that her income is too low. Normally, when they see a petition with low income, are they going to assume that he or she doesn’t have enough assets to substitute? Is this the reason that a joint sponsor is needed? 

They do not have to consider assets.  In considering the totality of your family's situation, the CO evidently has concluded that there is a high risk of becoming a public charge.

 

If you want the visas, there really is no option but to comply with the requirements they have given you.

[geowrian 22,335]

What documentation was provided with each I-864 (from both the petitioner and each joint sponsor)? Full tax returns OR transcript? What evidence of current income was provided?

 

The CO makes a public charge decision based upon the totality of the circumstances. Under the minimum = no visa. Above the minimum = judgement call.

Some criteria used by the CO: https://fam.state.gov/FAM/09FAM/09FAM030208.html#M302_8_2_B_2

 

20 hours ago, designguy said:

Is it possible to even split up the joint sponsors to allocate them to specific beneficiaries as you are saying in CEAC if they are under the same case number?'

It is permitted.

Edited September 12, 2019 by geowrian

[AndrewChou 1]

4 hours ago, Jorgedig said:

They do not have to consider assets.  In considering the totality of your family's situation, the CO evidently has concluded that there is a high risk of becoming a public charge.

 

If you want the visas, there really is no option but to comply with the requirements they have given you.

Oh, I guess that is why they would ask for a joint sponsor for my case. 

So here comes another question, normally, we can a maximum number of 2 joint sponsor. In my case, a family of 5, can one joint sponsor sponsor for 3 and second sponsor for 2? But we are intending to travel to the US at the same time. Can the first joint sponsor just fulfill the 125% annual income requirement of household size of 4 and the second one fulfill for household size of 3?

[AndrewChou 1]

24 minutes ago, geowrian said:

What documentation was provided with each I-864 (from both the petitioner and each joint sponsor)? Full tax returns OR transcript? What evidence of current income was provided?

 

The CO makes a public charge decision based upon the totality of the circumstances. Under the minimum = no visa. Above the minimum = judgement call.

Some criteria used by the CO: https://fam.state.gov/FAM/09FAM/09FAM030208.html#M302_8_2_B_2

 

It is permitted.

For the petitioner, we submitted I-864, tax returns for 2016, 2017 and 2018, Bank statement (Which has five times the lacking income gaps), naturalization certificate, birth certificate and other optional documents such as pay slip, employment letter...etc

While for the joint sponsors, we submitted I-864 with tax return for 2018 for both sponsors (The reason for only one year tax return is because the embassy did specifically say it's okay to just include one most recent years for each).

[SalishSea 16,746]

4 minutes ago, AndrewChou said:

Oh, I guess that is why they would ask for a joint sponsor for my case. 

So here comes another question, normally, we can a maximum number of 2 joint sponsor. In my case, a family of 5, can one joint sponsor sponsor for 3 and second sponsor for 2? But we are intending to travel to the US at the same time. Can the first joint sponsor just fulfill the 125% annual income requirement of household size of 4 and the second one fulfill for household size of 3?

Not sure.  I'll defer to @geowrian to answer that one.  Seems that from previous comments in this thread, it may be a yes for the first part of your Q.  Best of luck.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Jorgedig

[geowrian 22,335]

3 minutes ago, AndrewChou said:

For the petitioner, we submitted I-864, tax returns for 2016, 2017 and 2018, Bank statement (Which has five times the lacking income gaps), naturalization certificate, birth certificate and other optional documents such as pay slip, employment letter...etc

While for the joint sponsors, we submitted I-864 with tax return for 2018 for both sponsors (The reason for only one year tax return is because the embassy did specifically say it's okay to just include one most recent years for each).

Documentation for the petitioner sounds fairly good (although a year of bank statements is generally preferred IMO...to show that the money is steady there and not due to a friend ro family member just putting money in there for immigration purposes).

 

What evidence of current income was provided for the joint sponsors? Are they self-employed? Or did they only use assets....and if so, what documentation of those assets was provided?

 

2 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

Not sure.  I'll defer to @geowrian to answer that one.  Seems that from previous comments in this thread, it may be a yes for the first part of your Q.  Best of luck.

Yup, it's allowed. Although as noted, the CO still looks at the totality of the circumstances....no double-dipping. haha

[AndrewChou 1]

5 hours ago, geowrian said:

Documentation for the petitioner sounds fairly good (although a year of bank statements is generally preferred IMO...to show that the money is steady there and not due to a friend ro family member just putting money in there for immigration purposes).

 

What evidence of current income was provided for the joint sponsors? Are they self-employed? Or did they only use assets....and if so, what documentation of those assets was provided?

 

Yup, it's allowed. Although as noted, the CO still looks at the totality of the circumstances....no double-dipping. haha

The bank statement, we put bank statements for almost a whole year (From June 2018 until April 2019). I think this much bank statement should have proved that the money in the bank is pretty steady, and we did not borrow it from friends just for immigration purposes right?

And the evidence of current income, I'm not sure what is included in that category, but we put W2 for previous year, the deeds of two houses in the USA (For the domiciles requirement),  Bank statement for the employment's wage direct deposit, and also the payslip from the employer plus the employment letter issued by the company my aunt working for.

While for assets, we only include the bank statement of her saving account for the whole year only. I'm not sure if this is enough or not...

[geowrian 22,335]

14 minutes ago, AndrewChou said:

The bank statement, we put bank statements for almost a whole year (From June 2018 until April 2019). I think this much bank statement should have proved that the money in the bank is pretty steady, and we did not borrow it from friends just for immigration purposes right?

Generally, yes.

 

14 minutes ago, AndrewChou said:

And the evidence of current income, I'm not sure what is included in that category, but we put W2 for previous year, the deeds of two houses in the USA (For the domiciles requirement),  Bank statement for the employment's wage direct deposit, and also the payslip from the employer plus the employment letter issued by the company my aunt working for.

The W-2 would show prior income, not current income.

Bank statements are not great to show income...the pay stubs are the norm. But it sounds liek that was provided as well, so you're good there. The employment letter is good, too.

 

Unfortunately, it sounds like sufficient documentation was provided. It just means the CO was not convinced that they would not become a public charge.

I was hoping for insufficient documentation, which automatically makes their income considered insufficient and therefore not be a suitable sponsor.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

12 hours ago, AndrewChou said:

I’m just wondering why would the consular asked our family for a joint sponsor while my aunt’s money is over five times the lacking income gap...! I read the requirement on income and how to use assets to substitute the gap. However, the consular still ask for it anyway. And another thing to mention is during the interview, the consular didn’t even mention anything about my aunt’s money, and they only mention that her income is too low. Normally, when they see a petition with low income, are they going to assume that he or she doesn’t have enough assets to substitute? Is this the reason that a joint sponsor is needed? 

It also depends on the type of assets. If for example the money is her life savings and using it on your family if necessary would leave her no money for her old age...they would not accept it. From the I864 instructions:

Only assets that can be converted into cash within one year and without considerable hardship or financial loss to the owner may be included.