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Jacen7

Birth Certificate

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Hi everybody

 

Kind of a weird situation with my fiance's documentation as we prepare for K-1.   My fiance was born in Thailand, but is a Burmese citizen.  So he has a Thai birth certificate, but a Burmese passport.  Don't ask me how, the Myanmar government 25 years ago wasn't great at record keeping to put it mildly.  So we are working to correct this discrepancy.

 

My fiance is planning to go to the Myanmar government office and obtain a Myanmar birth certificate stating he was born in Myanmar in the city that will match his passport.  He can do this because he has connections to the government office, so assuming he is able to get this and knowing he can probably only do this one time, I want to make sure the right info is put on the birth certificate.  Is there anything important besides place and date of birth and parents information?  Anything we are not thinking of with this plan?  We would the pretend the Thai birth certificate doesn't exist.

 

Again the intent is to get him status as a documented citizen of Myanmar by birth which matches his Myanmar passport and can be used for K-1 visa.

 

 

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A couple of things come to mind. First, he should see if he can obtain several copies of this once-in-a-lifetime document. Getting more later is likely not a great option. He should attempt to get a certified translation done for each of the documents while there. It would be fair guess to say that translation of that document could be a bit pricey in the US.

 

He should make several good color laser copies of the document and translation, place the originals and translations in plastic presentation page savers. Present the copies for viewing/comparison at interviews, etc., with the originals. Giving the copies for IOs their records.

 

Good luck on your immigration journey.


Completed: K1/K2 (271 days) - AOS/EAD/AP (134 days) - ROC (279 days)

"Si vis amari, ama" - Seneca

 

 

 

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Sorry this is kind of consfusing so, he has a thai birth certificate with the correct place (the actual place he was born) listed on it. However his Burmese passport lists a different city of birth and now you want to get a birth certificate from Myanmar with a place of birth he was not actually born in?

 

35 minutes ago, Jacen7 said:

I want to make sure the right info is put on the birth certificate

I don't think when you request a birth certificate you can dictate what gets put on it...

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Don't do this.  Submitting fraudulent documents is very serious and lying about his place of birth and the existence of his genuine birth certificate is a terrible idea.

 

I assume a lot of people born around that time are in the same position, and presumably his Burmese citizenship is based on something other than his place of birth  - parents' citizenship, naturalization, even refugee status.  The country of birth doesn't need to match the nationality of the passport anyway,  and a lot of people have applied for K1 successfully where this is the case.  In any case, forgery definitely isn't the answer.

 

As long as he has proof of citizenship (the passport), my understanding is that the place of birth does not matter.  The most important thing is submitting genuine documents. 

 

If there is some other reason that this is a concern (should he not have been eligible for Burmese citizenship? Is his name/date of birth incorrect on the original document, anything else wonky) I would consult an immigration attorney instead of forging documents. 


 

K1 Process:

 

Spoiler

8/20/2016: I-129F packet mailed
10/20/2016: NOA2

1/20/2017: Interview (approved!) 

1/27/2017: Visa received 

2/20/2017: POE Philadelphia

3/18/2017: Wedding!

 

 

Adjustment of Status:

 

Spoiler

 

5/11/2017:  I-485, I-131, and I-765 packets mailed to Chicago lockbox

5/18/2017:  Three text/email NOA1's received

5/22/2017:  Three hard copy NOA1's received with a priority date of 5/15/2017

5/26/2017:  Biometrics appointment letter received

5/30/2017:  Biometrics completed (walk-in, East Hartford, CT ASC) 

6/15/2017: I-485 case status changed to "ready to be scheduled for interview." 

8/9/2017:  Service request for I-765 submitted online

8/28/2017: Second service request submitted online

8/28/2017: Submitted case request to Congresswoman. 

9/7/2017: Third service request for I-765 submitted online

10/7/2017:  EAD/AP combo card received (146 days from PD)

12/14/2017: Interview! (214 days from PD)

12/18/2017 Approval notice received with a notice date of 12/14/2017

12/30/2017: GC received (230 days from PD)

 

 

Removal of Conditions:

9/15/2019: ROC window opens

9/16/2019: Packet mailed to Dallas lockbox

9/18/2019: Packet delivered to Dallas lockbox

9/24/2019: Check cashed by USCIS

9/25/2019: Text receipt notice received

9/27/2019: Hard copy NOA received with a notice date of 9/23/2019

10/15/2019: Biometrics appointment letter received (notice dated 10/4/2019) 

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1 hour ago, Jacen7 said:

Hi everybody

 

Kind of a weird situation with my fiance's documentation as we prepare for K-1.   My fiance was born in Thailand, but is a Burmese citizen.  So he has a Thai birth certificate, but a Burmese passport.  Don't ask me how, the Myanmar government 25 years ago wasn't great at record keeping to put it mildly.  So we are working to correct this discrepancy.

 

My fiance is planning to go to the Myanmar government office and obtain a Myanmar birth certificate stating he was born in Myanmar in the city that will match his passport.  He can do this because he has connections to the government office, so assuming he is able to get this and knowing he can probably only do this one time, I want to make sure the right info is put on the birth certificate.  Is there anything important besides place and date of birth and parents information?  Anything we are not thinking of with this plan?  We would the pretend the Thai birth certificate doesn't exist.

 

Again the intent is to get him status as a documented citizen of Myanmar by birth which matches his Myanmar passport and can be used for K-1 visa.

 

 

It's a bad horrible idea to present a legal document that contains FRAUDULENT information.  The one thing you are not thinking of with this plan is how bad it will be if the fraud is discovered.  

 

Here's the how your fiance was born in Thailand but is considered a Burmese citizen.  Thailand specifically outlawed jus soli citizenship because of illegal immigration by Burmese.   This is well understood by the US embassies.  This has absolutely nothing to do with not being great at record keeping.  

You are creating a HUGE problem where there is none.  

Edited by aaron2020

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1 hour ago, Jacen7 said:

My fiance was born in Thailand, but is a Burmese citizen.  So he has a Thai birth certificate, but a Burmese passport.  Don't ask me how,

Not every country has jus solis - citizenship by just being born someplace like the US does. It looks as though Thailand had a period of not recognizing jus solis due to Burmese citizens coming to have children there. What year was your fiancé born as there seems to be a Thai regulation that some can petition for Thai citizenship if born in Thailand during that time though it might be a pain to get. As others have said using ‘connections’ to get fraudulent documents is a stupid idea and could get him banned from the US forever. 


K-1 Met:2002 Dating :2003 I-129F Sent : 2013-06-01 I-129F NOA2 : 2013-08-20 Medical: 2013-12-20 Interview Date : 2014-01-22 POE: 2014-02-19 Wedding: 2014-03-18

AOS/EAD Date Filed : 2014-04-04 BioAppt: 2014-05-13 EAD in Production: 2014-07-08 Interview date: 2014-07-14 Green Card received: 2014-07-19

ROC Date Filed: 2016-04-26 Cheque Cashed: 2016-05-10 NOA1: 2016-04-28 Biometrics: 2016-06-30 Approved: 11-08-2016 Green Card Received: 11-18-2016

 

Citizenship Date Filed: 2017-04-18 Cheque Cashed: 2017-04-24- NOA1:2017-04-21  Biometrics: 2017-05-19 Inline: 2017-07-12 Interview Date: 2018-02-13 Oath: 2018-03-15

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1 hour ago, designguy said:

Sorry this is kind of consfusing so, he has a thai birth certificate with the correct place (the actual place he was born) listed on it. However his Burmese passport lists a different city of birth and now you want to get a birth certificate from Myanmar with a place of birth he was not actually born in?

This is correct.

 

Thank you for shedding light on the reason he is a Burmese citizen despite being born in Thailand.  He was born in 1994.  I am fairly ignorant on the history and laws of that region.  I guess I never really considered this as forgery or fraudulent but wasn't thinking it through fully.  For example - I am a dual US/Italian citizen and I have two birth certificates, one for each country (although both list the same place of birth).  I assumed him getting a Burmese one would not be a big deal but now its looking like that is not the right thing to do.

 

Last year my fiance did try to change his passport place of birth to the correct location in Thailand, but the government officer in Myanmar refused to do so ("How can you be a Burmese citizen if you are born in Thailand?" was the officer's question).  Maybe this is a better avenue to attempt a second time?  But not sure if this is even possible.

 

The issue I am hoping to resolve is the discrepancy in place of birth between Thai birth certificate (with correct place of birth) and passport (with incorrect place of birth).  Since both documents are presented to the consulate.  Are you saying that this is not as big of a problem as I originally thought?  And we should submit documents as is?

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9 minutes ago, Jacen7 said:

The issue I am hoping to resolve is the discrepancy in place of birth between Thai birth certificate (with correct place of birth) and passport (with incorrect place of birth).  Since both documents are presented to the consulate.  Are you saying that this is not as big of a problem as I originally thought?  And we should submit documents as is?

The resolution to your problem is not to get a fraudulent document stating a place of birth in Myanmar. Knowingly presenting a birth certificate with his incorrect place of birth would be a huge misrepresentation and grounds for a permanent ban from entering the United States. Don't do it.

 

You need to clarify how your fiancé received Burmese citizenship without being born in Myanmar. Was it through relatives or marriage? How was it possible that his passport had the wrong place of birth printed on it? 

 

Edited by designguy

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27 minutes ago, Jacen7 said:

This is correct.

 

Thank you for shedding light on the reason he is a Burmese citizen despite being born in Thailand.  He was born in 1994.  I am fairly ignorant on the history and laws of that region.  I guess I never really considered this as forgery or fraudulent but wasn't thinking it through fully.  For example - I am a dual US/Italian citizen and I have two birth certificates, one for each country (although both list the same place of birth).  I assumed him getting a Burmese one would not be a big deal but now its looking like that is not the right thing to do.

 

Last year my fiance did try to change his passport place of birth to the correct location in Thailand, but the government officer in Myanmar refused to do so ("How can you be a Burmese citizen if you are born in Thailand?" was the officer's question).  Maybe this is a better avenue to attempt a second time?  But not sure if this is even possible.

 

The issue I am hoping to resolve is the discrepancy in place of birth between Thai birth certificate (with correct place of birth) and passport (with incorrect place of birth).  Since both documents are presented to the consulate.  Are you saying that this is not as big of a problem as I originally thought?  And we should submit documents as is?

Okay, this makes a bit more sense.  But the solution isn't forging a birth certificate, especially because the fake would have an incorrect place of birth anyway, so he's not even correcting the error. 

 

I have no idea about how citizenship works in either country, but do you think it's possible that someone (his parents) might have lied about his place of birth to get Burmese citizenship?  The fact that it's not just different towns but different countries as the place of birth is pretty odd.  Can you figure out on what basis he has Burmese citizenship? 

 

It's not that it doesn't matter that the places of birth don't match, or that they won't notice.  They definitely will, and you'll need to be proactive about providing an explanation with your application (don't wait for an RFE).  Again, I think you should consult an attorney who has more experience with this sort of thing.  

 

Just spitballing here, but did he formally apply to get the place of birth changed on the Burmese passport, and did he receive a written reply? If not, I would request the change formally and submit written proof of the request with the K1 application, even if it hasn't been approved yet or never gets approved for whatever reason.  That shows bona fide attempts to correct the mistake, and that he's not intentionally lying. 

Edited by Hawksquill

 

K1 Process:

 

Spoiler

8/20/2016: I-129F packet mailed
10/20/2016: NOA2

1/20/2017: Interview (approved!) 

1/27/2017: Visa received 

2/20/2017: POE Philadelphia

3/18/2017: Wedding!

 

 

Adjustment of Status:

 

Spoiler

 

5/11/2017:  I-485, I-131, and I-765 packets mailed to Chicago lockbox

5/18/2017:  Three text/email NOA1's received

5/22/2017:  Three hard copy NOA1's received with a priority date of 5/15/2017

5/26/2017:  Biometrics appointment letter received

5/30/2017:  Biometrics completed (walk-in, East Hartford, CT ASC) 

6/15/2017: I-485 case status changed to "ready to be scheduled for interview." 

8/9/2017:  Service request for I-765 submitted online

8/28/2017: Second service request submitted online

8/28/2017: Submitted case request to Congresswoman. 

9/7/2017: Third service request for I-765 submitted online

10/7/2017:  EAD/AP combo card received (146 days from PD)

12/14/2017: Interview! (214 days from PD)

12/18/2017 Approval notice received with a notice date of 12/14/2017

12/30/2017: GC received (230 days from PD)

 

 

Removal of Conditions:

9/15/2019: ROC window opens

9/16/2019: Packet mailed to Dallas lockbox

9/18/2019: Packet delivered to Dallas lockbox

9/24/2019: Check cashed by USCIS

9/25/2019: Text receipt notice received

9/27/2019: Hard copy NOA received with a notice date of 9/23/2019

10/15/2019: Biometrics appointment letter received (notice dated 10/4/2019) 

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Hi all - I will try to get some more background information later today and report back.

 

6 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

Asking for this to be locked. Can NOT discuss or advise what to put on a fake birth certificate. 

Locking this will only prevent me from getting help with the right way to do this along with others who might read this later.  As mentioned in my second post I have immediately realized a "fake" birth certificate is not a good idea and am now asking different questions - I'm not purposely asking anybody to help me do something malicious or illegal, I'm just ill informed and looking for information.

 

Edited by Jacen7

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***** Mod note:  This thread will not be locked as Op was mistaken, and did not truly intend to comitt fraud (which could lead to a lifetime ban from US immigration).  However, there will be NO discussion/ advice on/ encouraging of fraudulent activity, just what OP should actually do.  ******


Bye: Penguin

Me: Irish/ Swiss citizen, and now naturalised US citizen. Husband: USC; twin babies born Feb 08 in Ireland and a daughter in Feb 2010 in Arkansas who are all joint Irish/ USC. Did DCF (IR1) in 6 weeks via the Dublin, Ireland embassy and now living in Arkansas.

mod penguin.jpg

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1 hour ago, Jacen7 said:

This is correct.

 

Thank you for shedding light on the reason he is a Burmese citizen despite being born in Thailand.  He was born in 1994.  I am fairly ignorant on the history and laws of that region.  I guess I never really considered this as forgery or fraudulent but wasn't thinking it through fully.  For example - I am a dual US/Italian citizen and I have two birth certificates, one for each country (although both list the same place of birth).  I assumed him getting a Burmese one would not be a big deal but now its looking like that is not the right thing to do.

 

Last year my fiance did try to change his passport place of birth to the correct location in Thailand, but the government officer in Myanmar refused to do so ("How can you be a Burmese citizen if you are born in Thailand?" was the officer's question).  Maybe this is a better avenue to attempt a second time?  But not sure if this is even possible.

 

The issue I am hoping to resolve is the discrepancy in place of birth between Thai birth certificate (with correct place of birth) and passport (with incorrect place of birth).  Since both documents are presented to the consulate.  Are you saying that this is not as big of a problem as I originally thought?  And we should submit documents as is?

The ONLY choice you have is to use your (accurate)birth certificate to correct your (inaccurate) passport.

 

Otherwise your fiance should present the documents provided with explanation.

 

Every application filled out should reflect the original place of birth. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jacen7 said:

Last year my fiance did try to change his passport place of birth to the correct location in Thailand, but the government officer in Myanmar refused to do so ("How can you be a Burmese citizen if you are born in Thailand?" was the officer's question).  Maybe this is a better avenue to attempt a second time?  But not sure if this is even possible.

Maybe the officer doesn't even know the law: http://eudo-citizenship.eu/NationalDB/docs/1982 Myanmar Citizenship Law [ENGLISH].pdf "Chapter II"

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3 hours ago, HRQX said:

Maybe the officer doesn't even know the law: http://eudo-citizenship.eu/NationalDB/docs/1982 Myanmar Citizenship Law [ENGLISH].pdf "Chapter II"

Wow, thanks for citing the literal letter of the law.  Per that link, my fiance is certainly a Burmese citizen by law since both his parents are Burmese.  Despite being born in Thailand this qualifies him as a Burmese citizen.  Unfortunately, as he explains it to me, not everybody that works in the Myanmar government sees it this way- it's possible the officer didn't know the law, but also possible he just didn't care.  So the officer refused to put the Thailand city on the passport when it was being issued...not sure if anybody else has experience with the Burmese government but I guess that's just how it is sometimes.

 

We will do our best to get the passport changed to properly reflect the city of birth.  If we can't do that, we will try to get a refusal in writing but that may also be difficult.

 

At one point in the process will this discrepancy come up?  It looks like in submitting the I-129F petition none of my fiance's documents are required, so we are okay to go ahead and submit the petition (with Fiance place of Birth listed as Thailand) and work on getting the documentation corrected in the meantime- is that a good plan?  Or do we address the discrepancy in 129F somewhere

 

Thanks again everybody 

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