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MRTravels

PLEASE HELP! I-130 Petition For Alien Relative Refused 2 TIMES!

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Hello everyone. My sister is a US Citizen (unemployed, has 2 children, but is married to a US Navy) and she applied for "Petition of Alien Relative" for our mother in the Philippines. On February 4, 2019, the day of her visa interview in the Philippines, the consul refused her visa application under section 212(a)(4) or "refused because the applicant may become a public charge at any time". But the letter indicated that the refusal in not permanent and may be overcome if the applicant and the petitioner can provide more financial evidence to convince the consul that the ineligibility no longer applies. So, on February 7, 2019, my sister sent additional financial evidences and they made sure that the new evidences meets the HHS poverty guidelines, and it turns out it was even more than the required income. After that the US embassy notified my sister that the documents has been received on February 11, 2019 and is under review. Now, on March 4, 2019, we received a new mail indicating that her visa application has been refused again due to the same reason. Take note, the new letter looks exactly like the one our mother got from the US Embassy on the day of her interview. We are wondering if the visa application has been refused again despite of the amended total income or is this just a notification of the initial visa refusal? 

 

I am enclosing a copy of the refusal letter for your perusal. Appreciate your clarifications and help regarding this matter. Thank you so much in advance, we are really worried.

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12 minutes ago, MRTravels said:

the visa application has been refused again despite of the amended total income

I think it’s that one, because they already gave her the first one at the interview, so this is for the second attempt.

 

So is there a joint sponsor or your sister was just using her and her husband income? Meeting the minimum income threshold does not guarantee they will approve. The letter explains it pretty well. They look at other factors such as: age, health, other resources, ... and make a decision based on the totality of circumstances.

 

What are the sister and husband’s income combined, the amended one?

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Unlockable said:

Basically, the officer looks at the totality of circumstances when meeting financial guidelines. Assuming her husband is the cosponsor is the only source of income, then her mother migrating her could be a heavy financial burden for the household.

^ Exactly this. The CO makes a decision not on minimums but the totality of the circumstances. For a parent, especially if older, it tends to becomes more difficult to show they won't become a public charge (healthcare/insurance + OOP expenses are very expensive). Just being at or near the minimum income level just isj't going to cut it.

 

Edit: Also, you must address the issue of the petitoner's domicile in the US.

Edited by geowrian

Timelines:

Spoiler

AOS (I-485 + I-131 + I-765):

9/25/17: sent forms to Chicago

9/27/17: received by USCIS

10/4/17: NOA1 electronic notification received

10/10/17: NOA1 hard copy received. Social Security card being issued in married name (3rd attempt!)

10/14/17: Biometrics appointment notice received

10/25/17: Biometrics

1/2/18: EAD + AP approved (no website update)

1/5/18: EAD + AP mailed

1/8/18: EAD + AP approval notice hardcopies received

1/10/18: EAD + AP received

9/5/18: Interview scheduled notice

10/17/18: Interview

10/24/18: Green card produced notice

10/25/18: Formal approval

10/31/18: Green card received

 

K-1:

Spoiler

I-129F

12/1/17: sent

12/14/17: NOA1 hard copy received

3/10/17: RFE (IMB verification)

3/22/17: RFE response received

3/24/17: Approved!

3/30/17: NOA2 hard copy received

 

NVC

4/6/2017: Received

4/12/2017: Sent to Riyadh embassy

4/16/2017: Case received at Riyadh embassy

4/21/2017: Request case transfer to Manila, approved 4/24/2017

 

K-1

5/1/2017: Case received by Manila (1 week embassy transfer??? Lucky~)

7/13/2017: Interview: APPROVED!!!

7/19/2017: Visa in hand

8/15/2017: POE

 

 

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Thank you so much for your reply. My sister is the primary petitioner and her husband is the sponsor who signed the affidavit of support and that's it. They doesn't have any joint sponsor anymore. Their total income is about $100K+ per year and based on 2019 HHS Poverty Guidelines, Household of 5 (including my mother) should meet a minimum of $73K per year. So we don't know if the issue were based on their income. 

 

Whats should we provide then if the US embassy still need more documents from us? :(


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1 hour ago, USS_Voyager said:

I think it’s that one, because they already gave her the first one at the interview, so this is for the second attempt.

 

So is there a joint sponsor or your sister was just using her and her husband income? Meeting the minimum income threshold does not guarantee they will approve. The letter explains it pretty well. They look at other factors such as: age, health, other resources, ... and make a decision based on the totality of circumstances.

 

What are the sister and husband’s income combined, the amended one?

 

 

Thank you so much for your reply. My sister is the primary petitioner and her husband is the sponsor who signed the affidavit of support and that's it. They doesn't have any joint sponsor anymore. Their total income is about $100K+ per year and based on 2019 HHS Poverty Guidelines, Household of 5 (including my mother) should meet a minimum of $73K per year. So we don't know if the issue were based on their income. 

 

Whats should we provide then if the US embassy still need more documents from us? :(

 

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4 minutes ago, MRTravels said:

Thank you so much for your reply. My sister is the primary petitioner and her husband is the sponsor who signed the affidavit of support and that's it. They doesn't have any joint sponsor anymore. Their total income is about $100K+ per year and based on 2019 HHS Poverty Guidelines, Household of 5 (including my mother) should meet a minimum of $73K per year. So we don't know if the issue were based on their income. 

 

Whats should we provide then if the US embassy still need more documents from us? :(

The minimum income level for a household size of 5 is $36,775. See https://www.uscis.gov/i-864p.  Where did $73k come from?

They make the public charge decision based on the totality of the circumstances. That said, generally $100k+ would not raise an issue unless there is a reason for the CO to believe there are significant other costs involved.

She must have provided an I-864. Her husband would provide an I-864A to join his income with her. Is that what they?

What financial evidence was provided?


Timelines:

Spoiler

AOS (I-485 + I-131 + I-765):

9/25/17: sent forms to Chicago

9/27/17: received by USCIS

10/4/17: NOA1 electronic notification received

10/10/17: NOA1 hard copy received. Social Security card being issued in married name (3rd attempt!)

10/14/17: Biometrics appointment notice received

10/25/17: Biometrics

1/2/18: EAD + AP approved (no website update)

1/5/18: EAD + AP mailed

1/8/18: EAD + AP approval notice hardcopies received

1/10/18: EAD + AP received

9/5/18: Interview scheduled notice

10/17/18: Interview

10/24/18: Green card produced notice

10/25/18: Formal approval

10/31/18: Green card received

 

K-1:

Spoiler

I-129F

12/1/17: sent

12/14/17: NOA1 hard copy received

3/10/17: RFE (IMB verification)

3/22/17: RFE response received

3/24/17: Approved!

3/30/17: NOA2 hard copy received

 

NVC

4/6/2017: Received

4/12/2017: Sent to Riyadh embassy

4/16/2017: Case received at Riyadh embassy

4/21/2017: Request case transfer to Manila, approved 4/24/2017

 

K-1

5/1/2017: Case received by Manila (1 week embassy transfer??? Lucky~)

7/13/2017: Interview: APPROVED!!!

7/19/2017: Visa in hand

8/15/2017: POE

 

 

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1 hour ago, Unlockable said:

Hi @MRTravels,

 

In order for anyone here to help you we will need more details. What is the additional financial evidence she sent? How many members are in her household?  She is unemployed with 2 kids, how is she showing that she will provide for her mother? Has your sister ever had a job? What is the age and health condition of the mother (if she is older in age, healthcare may play a role in the decision)? 

 

Basically, the officer looks at the totality of circumstances when meeting financial guidelines. Assuming her husband is the cosponsor is the only source of income, then her mother migrating her could be a heavy financial burden for the household.

Hello. Thank you so much for the reply.

 

1. What is the additional financial evidence she sent?

- Initially, the total income they provided was only $40K without including the other income they have. So when they sent the amended one, The total income became $100K+ which included all other incomes they have.

 

2. How many members are in her household?

- 3 members (her husband and her 2 kids)

 

3. She is unemployed with 2 kids, how is she showing that she will provide for her mother?

- Probably from her husband's income?

 

4. Has your sister ever had a job?

- She was a flight stewardess in different country. But she has no job here in the US yet.

 

5. What is the age and health condition of the mother (if she is older in age, healthcare may play a role in the decision)?

- She is 66 years old. Very healthy and can still work here in the US.

 

The second letter indicates that they still need more documents to convince the consul that my mother will not be a public charge, so what else can we send? Thank you so much again. Maybe you can help us clear some things. 


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11 minutes ago, geowrian said:

The minimum income level for a household size of 5 is $36,775. See https://www.uscis.gov/i-864p.  Where did $73k come from?

They make the public charge decision based on the totality of the circumstances. That said, generally $100k+ would not raise an issue unless there is a reason for the CO to believe there are significant other costs involved.

She must have provided an I-864. Her husband would provide an I-864A to join his income with her. Is that what they?

What financial evidence was provided?

According to my sister, Trump administration amended the 125% of HHS poverty guidelines to 250% (read the article: https://www.boundless.com/blog/public-charge-rule-explained/) and they think it has been imposed already this year. Hence, we thought it has been increased to $73K for household of 5. 

 

Yes she provided I-864 under the name of her husband and they included his Tax Transcripts, W2s, TSP for military (or 401K), Stocks, Bonds, Savings, Housing and Employment Verification. 

 

What else should we provide then if the CO still need more documents?

 

Thank you so much again for the big support. Appreciate it very much!


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It's difficult to get the full picture here when OP is getting information second-hand.  The $40K to $100K without a joint sponsor seems fishy, something doesn't add up here.  Maybe assets were included in the second affidavit of support submitted, not additional income.  We don't know enough details because OP is not the petitioner.  An immigrant parent of retirement age would be a concern for health care expenses, perhaps not today, but in the years down the road, and they are not eligible for medicare so that could be a big concern for the CO, as even one short hospital stay without insurance could be $100,000.  OP, you might suggest to your sister that they price out health insurance premiums for a full coverage plan for a 66-year old female in good health and show the CO that they can afford this, in addition to her living expenses.  What about her medical exam?  You said she is in good health, but you cannot see the medical exam results, the CO can.  So much missing information here that all we can do is speculate.  

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6 hours ago, MRTravels said:

Hello everyone. My sister is a US Citizen (unemployed, has 2 children, but is married to a US Navy) and she applied for "Petition of Alien Relative" for our mother in the Philippines. On February 4, 2019, the day of her visa interview in the Philippines, the consul refused her visa application under section 212(a)(4) or "refused because the applicant may become a public charge at any time". But the letter indicated that the refusal in not permanent and may be overcome if the applicant and the petitioner can provide more financial evidence to convince the consul that the ineligibility no longer applies. So, on February 7, 2019, my sister sent additional financial evidences and they made sure that the new evidences meets the HHS poverty guidelines, and it turns out it was even more than the required income. After that the US embassy notified my sister that the documents has been received on February 11, 2019 and is under review. Now, on March 4, 2019, we received a new mail indicating that her visa application has been refused again due to the same reason. Take note, the new letter looks exactly like the one our mother got from the US Embassy on the day of her interview. We are wondering if the visa application has been refused again despite of the amended total income or is this just a notification of the initial visa refusal? 

 

I am enclosing a copy of the refusal letter for your perusal. Appreciate your clarifications and help regarding this matter. Thank you so much in advance, we are really worried.

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do u have facebook? probably our admin can help you this matter add us in IR5 Parents VISA journey

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4 hours ago, MRTravels said:

According to my sister, Trump administration amended the 125% of HHS poverty guidelines to 250% (read the article: https://www.boundless.com/blog/public-charge-rule-explained/) and they think it has been imposed already this year. Hence, we thought it has been increased to $73K for household of 5.

 

There is no such amendment in effect.  The minimum income requirement is still 125% of the Federal poverty level.

 

4 hours ago, MRTravels said:

Yes she provided I-864 under the name of her husband and they included his Tax Transcripts, W2s, TSP for military (or 401K), Stocks, Bonds, Savings, Housing and Employment Verification.

 

As the petitioner, your sister is the primary sponsor and should have submitted I-864 in her name even if her income is $0.  Her husband should have submitted I-864A.

 

Retirement accounts, stocks, bonds, and savings are assets, NOT income.  For assets to be considered, they must be considered "liquid assets" and should be much higher than the income shortfall.

 

Even if your sister had filed the correct forms, I can see why the consul officer did not believe that a single-income family with 2 kids could support an elderly immigrant.  As previous posters have pointed out, the CO makes a judgement call based on the totality of the family's circumstances.  I suggest your sister look into getting a joint sponsor.

 

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4 hours ago, MRTravels said:

Hello. Thank you so much for the reply.

 

1. What is the additional financial evidence she sent?

- Initially, the total income they provided was only $40K without including the other income they have. So when they sent the amended one, The total income became $100K+ which included all other incomes they have.

 

🤔 hmm, that should be enough. I sponsored my mom and my household size is 5 (myself, wife, mom and 2 kids) and I used only my own W2 income (filed form I-864EZ) which is like more than twice the minumum for household of 5,I did not include my wife’s income (she didn’t file the I-864A) or other income we have ( rentals,...). My mom was approved without question. So it must be something else.

 

What is “the other” income they have but not include the first time? Is that something temporary and not permanent? I can infer the husband’s salary is $40,000, because unless he’s an Admiral, he’s no where near six figures. Sorry not trying to be intrusive, just trying to solve this.

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