Engagement Photos with K1 petition?

[Ty/Ir 32]

7 minutes ago, payxibka said:

I am curious as to where is proof of engagement is required evidence for the petition?

My understanding is that the letters requested to indicate an intent to marry constitutes proof of engagement. That is precisely what an engagement is: an intent to marry. I can't remember whether or not these letters were required or if it was just something that was strongly recommended. In either case every material used to supplement the I-129f packet is meant to illustrate the authenticity of a serious relationship that will lead to marriage (an engagement). To be clear, since it looks like OP misunderstood my post, I did not participate in an engagement ceremony. I just proposed with an engagement ring. That said, I did look into engagement ceremonies and apparently they are a separate event from a wedding. Perhaps this will confuse the case and damage OP's chances of success but I don't know; someone more knowledgeable than me should be making that prediction. Anyways, I've never heard of "too married" anywhere outside of this site. So if OP is maybe-sorta-kindaish-married and would therefore be ineligible for a k1 visa does that mean they would need to get a divorce to prove they are 'divorced enough' to reapply for a k1? Or should they get all-the-way-married and apply for a spousal visa?

[Ash.1101 1,755]

32 minutes ago, payxibka said:

I am curious as to where is proof of engagement is required evidence for the petition?

 

Its not 🤭

 

the only requirement is that you’ve met in person in the last two years and that you have enough relationship evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to say you’ll probably get married and you like each other.

 

people can’t seem to understand that USCIS runs this show and if they believe you are religiously or legally married then yes they can deny you. This visa is to become fresh married, not get married a second time or to become married legally after being married in the eyes of your religion.

 

You cant prove that you’re not married (aside from the countries that actually do provide that info), with USCIS you’re guilty until proven innocent.

 

 

The intent to marry letters aren’t as much a letter saying that you’re engaged, but that you are free to marry and are promising the government you will do so within 90 days of the foreign finance coming into the US. It’s just an agreement to uphold your end of the deal with the government, not your agreement to actually marry. That’s why this visa gets so abused.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Ash.1101

[SJordanS 342]

Thank you all for your comments and feedback.  I just might be a new case study for this group. I know that in Russia a lot of engagements take place in church and those petitions are not denied. So if it does come up during the CO interview My fiancé will give the honest explanation and hopefully they would have seen this before  because I’m not going to be the first doing  this in the country of Jordan or the last. NOTE:  for those who asked me why I did it this way and who not aware if I can just give a little bit of background.  In Jordan and even here in the states if a Christian arab girl ir arab-american is going to get engaged the family ALWAYS invites the priest of the church to the home or banquet hall to do the blessing of the rings and a prayer for them. So a lot of people choose to do it in their home or venue to accommodate the families who want to attend then they follow up with a big party.  My fiancé’s apartment is too small to invite all those people so we settled to do it in the church.  Normal to have a family and friends gathering at an engagement. We did not have a party afterwards as soon as we were done we all went home and we had a barbecue. I noticed a lot of the examples here or with people who did a ceremonial engagement in Pakistan or India. That could be a different case. So let’s wait-and-see what happens to me and hopefully I’ll be able to help us all out. 

[SalishSea 16,770]

3 hours ago, Tyler26 said:

You're either married or you're not; I don't understand the concept of being "too married" or "too engaged". Since when are there degrees of it?

USCIS has had to learn how to determine this as a fine point, as many married couples have tried to use the K-1 to expedite the process (particularly when K-1 was so much faster).

 

Also, FYI:  "engaged" is not a legal status.  A ring and a formal engagement are personal choices, but are in no way required for petition approval.  

[Paul & Mallory 1,398]

37 minutes ago, Tyler26 said:

My understanding is that the letters requested to indicate an intent to marry constitutes proof of engagement. That is precisely what an engagement is: an intent to marry. I can't remember whether or not these letters were required or if it was just something that was strongly recommended. In either case every material used to supplement the I-129f packet is meant to illustrate the authenticity of a serious relationship that will lead to marriage (an engagement). To be clear, since it looks like OP misunderstood my post, I did not participate in an engagement ceremony. I just proposed with an engagement ring. That said, I did look into engagement ceremonies and apparently they are a separate event from a wedding. Perhaps this will confuse the case and damage OP's chances of success but I don't know; someone more knowledgeable than me should be making that prediction. Anyways, I've never heard of "too married" anywhere outside of this site. So if OP is maybe-sorta-kindaish-married and would therefore be ineligible for a k1 visa does that mean they would need to get a divorce to prove they are 'divorced enough' to reapply for a k1? Or should they get all-the-way-married and apply for a spousal visa?

FYI, it is recommended to show proof of intent to marry when submitting an I-129 for a K1 visa with something along the lines of a "letter of intent". It's basically a (well) written letter affirming yours and your partner's intent to marry one another, upon entry into the US with a K1 visa for the beneficiary, signed by the aforementioned parties. Engagement photos, proof of an engagement party, or proof of an engagement ring being offered is not required.

 

Also - if one becomes denied for a K1 visa based on evidence leading the officer(s) to believe the couple is already married ("too married"), then they would need to fulfill any remaining legal requirements for marriage, if applicable, and then file for a CR1 as a married couple.

[Roel 7,191]

I hope this thread will be updates when OP gets a decision. 

[beloved_dingo 1,932]

Hopefully it will work out in your favor, but one thing to keep in mind is that it is very difficult to "prove" you are not married. This is why officers err on the side of caution and will deny K1 petitions for appearing to be married. It's a very American mindset to say "you are either married or your not!". That's not how it works with immigration; there are shades of grey. Many countries have traditional marriages that would not be considered a legal marriage here in the U.S., but they will cause K1 visa denials. There are also countries where having multiple spouses is perfectly legal and accepted, whereas in America it is a crime and will cause denials of any marriage-based visa.

 

The fact you included a lot of detail and explanation into what was actually taking place may help, but only time will tell.

 

Also just to reiterate a couple of points based on other posts - having professional engagement photos taken is a common occurrence in the US. It is also a common occurrence for the person proposing to give their partner a ring. It is not, however, a normal tradition in the U.S. for both parties to exchange rings and have a ceremony in a church. The USCIS employee(s) reviewing these petitions cannot be expected to know what may be considered normal for the beneficiaries' country, but they will know what a typical American engagement entails. On the flip side, the CO at the embassy/interview stage will be aware of local customs and will take this into account, regardless of whether it affects the visa application positively or negatively. These are things that everyone needs to take into consideration at each stage of the visa process.  

[Carpe Vinum 2,310]

Every case is a 'one-off.' Even if your case gets through it does not set a precedent for cases that follow...

[Carpe Vinum 2,310]

1 hour ago, Jorgedig said:

USCIS has had to learn how to determine this as a fine point, as many married couples have tried to use the K-1 to expedite the process (particularly when K-1 was so much faster).

 

Also, FYI:  "engaged" is not a legal status.  A ring and a formal engagement are personal choices, but are in no way required for petition approval.  

This ^^^^

[Dashinka 23,243]

3 hours ago, SueSaed said:

 Please don’t respond if you’re going to make comments not related to the subject matter. Thank you.  

Thank you so much Nicole. 

Just a word of caution, telling someone not to post is against the terms of service of this site.  You may or may not like what a person posts, but they are free to post it and you are certainly free to ignore it.

 

Apart from that, thank you for the education you have provided in this thread.  I look forward to hearing the outcome and hopefully it is in your favor.

 

Good Luck!

[iwir 337]

4 hours ago, Ash.1101 said:

USCIS considered ceremonial/religious ceremonies to be almost one in the same as legal.

Only if the ceremony is considered as legal under the law of the place where it's performed.

 

According to USCIS Manual( https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartG-Chapter2.html#footnote-1)

 

"The applicant must establish validity of his or her marriage. In general, the legal validity of a marriage is determined by the law of the place where the marriage was celebrated (“place-of-celebration rule”). Under this rule, a marriage is valid for immigration purposes in cases where the marriage is valid under the law of the jurisdiction in which it is performed."

 

I think, the CO at the embassy will have the final say if it's legal or not because they know the custom of the host country better. If under Jordan law, it's a legal ceremony, then your K1 visa would be likely denied.

[George & Roth 1,485]

Congrats on the wedding, best of luck. 

[ajay007 43]

14 hours ago, SueSaed said:

Hi VJers,

 

I’ve been reading a few posts this evening and got a little nervous. As I am waiting for my NOA2, I’ve been reading that USCIS can see formal engagement photos as being too engaged or almost married. My fiancé and I got engaged in our Orthodox Church in Jordan. I sent a few photos with my petition and its on our FB. Of course I’m wearing a simple red dress.  Not white! I included a certificate from the priest who stamped it who blessed our rings, and he wrote the date, our names and that he commenced our engagement. Will this be a problem with USCIS? I’m so confused now! All we wanted was a beautiful engagement ceremony! 

it seems like a red flag to k1 petition.

[Sammy 1 13]

You should save the money on a lawyer and do it yourself.  It's not that hard.  Cr1 is really better imo wish I had chose to go that way. I am sorry to say it is very close to a wedding.

[SJordanS 342]

7 hours ago, Najee & Maan said:

I APPRECIATE ON YOU EXPLAINING THE INSTANCES TO EVERYONE HERE. I also love how you respond to the opinions and negative reactions that might come your way per your story. Please know we all want the best for your situation as we all want for everyone here ❤️

Thank you so much ❤️❤️❤️🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 i appreciate YOU for that.