Hawaii considers ban on cigarette sales

[millefleur 5,034]

5 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

Google just told me that 2 lbs of apples is about $5.71 in today.  FAR less than cigarettes AFAIK.

I said in certain parts. Tokyo has certain luxury fruit shops where you can easy drop some serious cash on fruits. If you were in certain rich areas of Tokyo where there are not many grocery stores within reach, a cigarette vending machine (which are EVERYWHERE) will offer up cheaper prices than most fruit stores. Trust me, it's bizarre but true. This is the country of the $6,000 watermelon after all: https://www.postindependent.com/news/watermelon-sells-for-more-than-6000-in-japan/

 

5 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

Have you ever visited the leper colony in Hawaii?  I have, and would not wish that on ANY human being.  Sad state of affairs. 

Is there an actually a leper colony there....? Hard for me to tell if that's sarcasm or real....hoping sarcasm.

Edited February 5, 2019 by millefleur

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

49 minutes ago, millefleur said:

I said in certain parts. Tokyo has certain luxury fruit shops where you can easy drop some serious cash on fruits. If you were in certain rich areas of Tokyo where there are not many grocery stores within reach, a cigarette vending machine (which are EVERYWHERE) will offer up cheaper prices than most fruit stores. Trust me, it's bizarre but true. This is the country of the $6,000 watermelon after all: https://www.postindependent.com/news/watermelon-sells-for-more-than-6000-in-japan/

 

Is there an actually a leper colony there....? Hard for me to tell if that's sarcasm or real....hoping sarcasm.

Very much NOT sarcasm. Kaluapapa leper colony on Molokai island.  Have taken supplies to them before (though I was not allowed to interact with the people; we just left the supplies for them to pick up after we left).  Saw a documentary on it once, sad stories.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalaupapa,_Hawaii 

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

And I believe you about the fruit thing in Japan.  Just wanted to show that the prices are not ALL as high as you mentioned.  And it’s all fruit that is pricey, I believe, though I have not visited there since 2009.

 

Part of the issue is HOW they grow their fruit.  One method is to remove all but one fruit from a branch, which makes for bigger fruit, but obviously, many pieces are wasted, driving up demand as well as prices.

[millefleur 5,034]

1 hour ago, ALFKAD said:

And I believe you about the fruit thing in Japan.  Just wanted to show that the prices are not ALL as high as you mentioned.  And it’s all fruit that is pricey, I believe, though I have not visited there since 2009.

 

Part of the issue is HOW they grow their fruit.  One method is to remove all but one fruit from a branch, which makes for bigger fruit, but obviously, many pieces are wasted, driving up demand as well as prices. 

It was just culture shock for me when I was there that cigarettes were so accessible but fruit was often times viewed as a luxury item that was hard to come by, literally in the neighborhood I lived in (residential area) I would pass by tons of cigarette vending machines in order to walk very far to get to one extremely expensive grocery store where most of the fruits were way more expensive than the cigs being sold in the machines. I even brought this up to the locals and they just shrugged passively, smoking is just extremely accepted in their culture, probably because of the long and hard working hours they see it as a way for people to relieve stress...it's probably a symptom of that bigger issue more than anything.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

2 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

The major tribe in the U.S., the Casino Indians, have a very powerful lobby.

Thats why I said $$$$

The Ga Car Dealers lobby , got a law passed where you pay 7 % Ad valorem  Tax intesd of sales tax. Buys your tag as long as you own the car. It also means on a private sell the title office collects the tax, and its based on value not sales price and a private individual can not reduce that amount with  trade.

 

It really shut down a lot of the private sells that use to get around taxes and drove that business to dealerships 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

I once bought a Cured ham.  Wonder what it had?

 

  These days, probably better not to know.

[fascinating123 38]

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 3:23 PM, OriZ said:

Problem is cigarettes hurt more than just themselves. I don't accept the argument from many libertarians AT ALL comparing cigarettes to other things politicians try to tax or ban. I am all for getting rid of them.

And to what lengths are you willing to go to get rid of them? Are you willing to use violence to do so? I smoke cigars (I understand cigars are not part of this bill), are you willing to use violence against me to stop me from doing so? Or to stop cigar companies from selling to me?

 

There are things I don't like. But I'm not willing to use violence to stop anyone from doing them.

[OriZ 3,157]

24 minutes ago, fascinating123 said:

And to what lengths are you willing to go to get rid of them? Are you willing to use violence to do so? I smoke cigars (I understand cigars are not part of this bill), are you willing to use violence against me to stop me from doing so? Or to stop cigar companies from selling to me?

 

There are things I don't like. But I'm not willing to use violence to stop anyone from doing them.

Define violence 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

18 minutes ago, fascinating123 said:

And to what lengths are you willing to go to get rid of them? Are you willing to use violence to do so? I smoke cigars (I understand cigars are not part of this bill), are you willing to use violence against me to stop me from doing so? Or to stop cigar companies from selling to me?

 

There are things I don't like. But I'm not willing to use violence to stop anyone from doing them.

 

    I don't think that violence was suggested or implied anywhere in this thread. A ban on sales would probably lead to black market activity or home grown, and we have a real case study in American history from the time of alcohol prohibition on what would likely happen. If anything,  prohibition proved that banning sales doesn't really work when something is relatively easy to obtain. Tobacco is easy to grow. It's cheap to grow. A sales ban won't stop people from smoking.   

[fascinating123 38]

3 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Define violence 

The use of physical force.

[fascinating123 38]

4 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    I don't think that violence was suggested or implied anywhere in this thread. A ban on sales would probably lead to black market activity or home grown, and we have a real case study in American history from the time of alcohol prohibition on what would likely happen. If anything,  prohibition proved that banning sales doesn't really work when something is relatively easy to obtain. Tobacco is easy to grow. It's cheap to grow. A sales ban won't stop people from smoking.   

Behind every law is the threat of violence. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad, but it's the reality nonetheless.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, fascinating123 said:

Behind every law is the threat of violence. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad, but it's the reality nonetheless.

 

   I suppose that is true. I would guess that people who can't buy cigarettes anymore to be the ones who are most likely to react that way if a law was passed.

 

   

[OriZ 3,157]

4 hours ago, fascinating123 said:

The use of physical force.

Huh, who said anything about physical force

(btw, the reason I asked is because some people consider some acts of government to be violent even though they don't include physical force).

[Dashinka 23,162]

17 hours ago, millefleur said:

Actually it just occurred to me that Hawaii might be a good place for smokers because it's a remote island, we could turn it into a kind of "smoker colony" like a leper colony and send them all there to live in isolation...  but really I don't think outright banning tobacco will work at all, anywhere. The only place I know that did it ever was tiny the Himalayan country Bhutan, because the absolute monarch there hated smoking, lol.

 

I don't have the perfect solution to the answer but it seems to be that banning smoking in public at least has had wonderful results here in the US and even in Europe. Heck, the overwhelming majority of Europe is smoke-free now in enclosed public places, with Austria being the extreme outlier, no idea why but that country is just filled with militant smokers. I was in Japan for a while where the clock on smoking seems to be set back to the 1950's, it's insane how many people are smokers and how every eatery has a "non-smoking" section that is literally right next to a "smoking" section so the entire place becomes filled with smoke. A pack of cigarettes also costs less than AN APPLE in some parts of Tokyo...and we wonder why their population is dwindling...? It's a public health issue for sure and countries need to treat it that way.

 

 

I can still remember starting my first job in an office where co-workers could smoke at their desks, there were ashtrays in the conference rooms and by the end of the day there was a smoky haze at the ceiling.  Heck, I went to a Detroit Lions game once in the mid-eighties and even though the Pontiac Silverdome was supposedly smoke free, there was a blue-grey smoky haze just under the dome by the end of the third quarter.  It is funny, back then smoking never really bothered me, I had a roommate in college that smoked in the dorm room, but now, even the fastest odor of cigarette smoke bothers me.  

[yuna628 9,525]

18 hours ago, fascinating123 said:

And to what lengths are you willing to go to get rid of them? Are you willing to use violence to do so? I smoke cigars (I understand cigars are not part of this bill), are you willing to use violence against me to stop me from doing so? Or to stop cigar companies from selling to me?

 

There are things I don't like. But I'm not willing to use violence to stop anyone from doing them.

I don't think anyone here ever said or implied they would use violence against you to prevent you from consuming a life-altering cancer causing product. If you want to damage your body in your own way you have a right to, unless you partake of the substance in a way that exposes others to those same dangers.

5 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

I can still remember starting my first job in an office where co-workers could smoke at their desks, there were ashtrays in the conference rooms and by the end of the day there was a smoky haze at the ceiling.  Heck, I went to a Detroit Lions game once in the mid-eighties and even though the Pontiac Silverdome was supposedly smoke free, there was a blue-grey smoky haze just under the dome by the end of the third quarter.  It is funny, back then smoking never really bothered me, I had a roommate in college that smoked in the dorm room, but now, even the fastest odor of cigarette smoke bothers me.  

My grandma was a heavy smoker, and died from it. She smoked around all of her babies and as they grew up.. it wouldn't surprise me if she also smoked while pregnant. Each of her children, including my dad have had cancers and other life-altering diseases and I also note have had some proclivity to addiction. Mom wouldn't let grandpa in the house because of his racism (he was more of a casual cigar smoker though), but grandma was allowed until she insisted upon smoking around me as a baby and despite knowing my sister had severe asthma. I cannot stand the smell of smoke, and sometimes the smell on people is so strong it really causes me breathing problems. It really is the lack of care about themselves and others that a lot of smokers have in attitude that's frustrating.