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Prime minister’s Brexit deal is lost by 432 votes to 202

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Russia
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1 minute ago, yuna628 said:

They can certainly have a redo.  Referendum democracies do not work, that is why a lot of countries that have this as an option, get special protections in place. Do you know why the UK is the 5th largest in the world? Do you know how they got that way? Controlling a currency does nothing if it has no value. And it wouldn't matter even if you thought countries would be willing to trade - as of right now the UK government has no viable plan in place to handle any of it.

Personally I think referendum government, essentially "majority rules" government is not good, but hey, this is the UK, it is their rules, but I suppose a lot of folks wouldn't mind a rule change midstream.  You are right, their is no real plan, and Brussels negotiates like the Democrats, that is why I suggest the bandaid removal approach, it will shorten the pain. 

 

By the way, considering that the UK is a major exporter and importer, I think they may have some infrastructure for trade.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Ireland
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I think the UK is in a real tough bind, a no deal and the EU will put tariffs in place and I am not too sure the UK could withstand a trade war in the way the US does. Straight away the auto industry would be dead in the water, most of their cars are exported now.

 

"The impact of a no-deal Brexit on the automobile industry would be potentially catastrophic. There is no other industry that is more tightly integrated than the European automotive industry, with highly complex supply chains stretching across Europe and production relying on ‘just-in-time’ delivery.

Indeed, as this new fact sheet illustrates, the EU and UK automotive industries are closely interwoven today.

54% of all UK-built passenger cars were bought by customers in the European Union last year. In fact, 8 out of 10 passenger cars made in the United Kingdom are exported. The other way around, less than 3 out of 10 passenger cars made in the EU are exported (27.4%), with roughly one third of total exports heading to the UK. The EU represents 85% of the UK’s passenger car imports by volume."

 

https://www.acea.be/news/article/fact-sheet-brexit-and-the-auto-industry

 

 

 

 

trading partners.JPG

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Russia
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1 minute ago, Mr&Mrs G. said:

They wouldn't be the first country within the EU to hold second or third referendum's on the same subject. If I remember correctly Ireland has done it on more than one occasion, the Lisbon Treaty comes to  mind off hand. Normally it's just a way of restructuring a deal, but this time the pro Brexiter's said the vote couldn't be undone and Nicholas Farage beat a quick departure from what he started and ended up in tv land. 

 

Maybe I am biased being Irish and the UK leaving the EU is bad for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, a no deal here puts a hard border back on the island of Ireland and that is unacceptable after all the years it took to get to where we are now.  Peace in Ireland was a long time coming, sure I want a united Ireland but I will take what we have now and it is not something the people of Ireland want to give up easily. 

This is something that I do not understand, couldn't Ireland negotiate their own border with the UK?

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Ireland
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2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

This is something that I do not understand, couldn't Ireland negotiate their own border with the UK?

No they are bound by rules from the EU, the only way it could happen would be for Ireland to leave the EU also but the Irish people will not leave. Ireland is bargaining for both sides but in reality it must support the EU first. 

 

So in negotiations it is every other country as one vs the UK, Spain even tried to get Gibraltar in to the mix but it was rejected.   

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Filed: H-1B Visa Country: Ireland
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I just checked the UK Facebook page.  The relationship status is "It's complicated" 


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I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. But from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice -Theodore Parker

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3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

This is something that I do not understand, couldn't Ireland negotiate their own border with the UK?

Ireland is it's own country and EU member and utilizes all the regulations and framework in place, which makes it very successful. It also has a robust banking economy. However, remember Northern Ireland is part of the UK. They are all Irish people and attached to the same land mass, but there is a deep divide on so many levels (religious and socio-economic) that still drives violence and dissent to this day. DUP, which very much supports the wants of one faction within Northern Ireland, but not the rest of the population has been seen by some as very extremist but trying to moderate themselves by cozying up to the Tories (of which don't actually really respect DUP anyway). The previous peace agreement and EU customs agreement made the free travel and trade back and forth between the people (of really the same country) possible. Without figuring out how to handle this, the country is split into two, people lose their freedom and potentially the peace treaty could be in violation. Imagine it kind of like East and West Berlin... but maybe worse. This has brought some to consider reunifying with Ireland and breaking from the UK. The UK does not want this, anymore than they would want Scotland to break. If the UK breaks away, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland becomes the only physical border (remember the UK itself is an island) where a landmass 'owned' by the UK is touching landmass owned by another country and a part of the EU. Nobody wants to return to the days before the peace agreement. It was a dangerous time. So the UK initially brought up the idea of a backstop, effectively moving the border into the Irish sea, which DUP objected and has successfully held the Tories over a barrel. Additionally since different immigration rules kind of apply to Northern Ireland, people often use this route to get into England. Ireland and Northern Ireland do not use the same currency either.  https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-borderlands-the-irish-times-maps-ireland-s-border-crossings-1.3758997 

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brexit/borderlands

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404

 

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Filed: H-1B Visa Country: Ireland
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35 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

This is something that I do not understand, couldn't Ireland negotiate their own border with the UK?

This would be a bit like asking Ontario to Negotiate customs, duties and borders with New York.


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I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. But from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice -Theodore Parker

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Ireland
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15 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Ireland is it's own country and EU member and utilizes all the regulations and framework in place, which makes it very successful. It also has a robust banking economy. However, remember Northern Ireland is part of the UK. They are all Irish people and attached to the same land mass, but there is a deep divide on so many levels (religious and socio-economic) that still drives violence and dissent to this day. DUP, which very much supports the wants of one faction within Northern Ireland, but not the rest of the population has been seen by some as very extremist but trying to moderate themselves by cozying up to the Tories (of which don't actually really respect DUP anyway). The previous peace agreement and EU customs agreement made the free travel and trade back and forth between the people (of really the same country) possible. Without figuring out how to handle this, the country is split into two, people lose their freedom and potentially the peace treaty could be in violation. Imagine it kind of like East and West Berlin... but maybe worse. This has brought some to consider reunifying with Ireland and breaking from the UK. The UK does not want this, anymore than they would want Scotland to break. If the UK breaks away, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland becomes the only physical border (remember the UK itself is an island) where a landmass 'owned' by the UK is touching landmass owned by another country and a part of the EU. Nobody wants to return to the days before the peace agreement. It was a dangerous time. So the UK initially brought up the idea of a backstop, effectively moving the border into the Irish sea, which DUP objected and has successfully held the Tories over a barrel. Additionally since different immigration rules kind of apply to Northern Ireland, people often use this route to get into England. Ireland and Northern Ireland do not use the same currency either.  https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-borderlands-the-irish-times-maps-ireland-s-border-crossings-1.3758997 

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brexit/borderlands

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404

 

To complicate it even more anyone born in Northern Ireland is effectively a dual citizen of the UK and the Republic of Ireland, they can choose to hold a passport from either or both as a result of the Belfast agreement. Since Brexit there has been a huge increase in anyone in the UK who has ties to Ireland applying for passports so they will still have freedom of movement within the EU.

 

The old militarised border with Northern Ireland was terrible and very scary to go through, not something I would want back on the island.

Edited by Mr&Mrs G.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Russia
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3 hours ago, Mr&Mrs G. said:

No they are bound by rules from the EU, the only way it could happen would be for Ireland to leave the EU also but the Irish people will not leave. Ireland is bargaining for both sides but in reality it must support the EU first. 

 

So in negotiations it is every other country as one vs the UK, Spain even tried to get Gibraltar in to the mix but it was rejected.   

This is interesting, the Irish/UK border allows relatively free movement today, but the UK’s other land border between Spain and Gibraltar is much more controlled.  What is also interesting is that Ireland is beholden to the EU as to its own international borders.  Regardless, it appears May survived the no confidence vote, so I guess th folks of the UK and Ireland will have to wait and see.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Russia
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2 hours ago, refugee said:

This would be a bit like asking Ontario to Negotiate customs, duties and borders with New York.

Are you suggesting the Republic of Ireland is a sub national entity of the EU similar to the province of Ontario or the state of New York?  I didn’t think the member countries of the EU looked at themselves in such a light?

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Ireland
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1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

This is interesting, the Irish/UK border allows relatively free movement today, but the UK’s other land border between Spain and Gibraltar is much more controlled.  What is also interesting is that Ireland is beholden to the EU as to its own international borders.  Regardless, it appears May survived the no confidence vote, so I guess th folks of the UK and Ireland will have to wait and see.

The Spain - Gibraltar border is controled differently because Gibraltar is tax free shopping and not bound by the same rules. Spain is still kinda peeved that they can't get the island back under their sovereignty and at random times of the day they slow down cars trying to cross the border back into Spain. On a really hot day it's a real pain to be stuck in very slow moving lanes trying to get back to your hotel, traffic nearly backs up as far as the airports runway and mostly during the holiday season.

 

Last time we crossed over we thought it would be funny to stick my brother in laws prosthetic legs sticking towards the back of the truck so it looked like a body in the car, border police were not amused. 😜

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Filed: H-1B Visa Country: Ireland
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1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Are you suggesting the Republic of Ireland is a sub national entity of the EU similar to the province of Ontario or the state of New York?  I didn’t think the member countries of the EU looked at themselves in such a light?

 

The Union has exclusive competence to make directives and conclude international agreements when provided for in a Union legislative act as to …
Member States cannot exercise competence in areas where the Union has done so, that is …
Union exercise of competence shall not result in Member States being prevented from exercising theirs in …
  • research, technological development and (outer) space
  • development cooperation, humanitarian aid
The Union coordinates Member States policies or implements supplemental to their common policies not covered elsewhere in …
The Union can carry out actions to support, coordinate or supplement Member States' actions in …
  • the protection and improvement of human health
  • industry
  • culture
  • tourism
  • education, youth, sport and vocational training
  • civil protection (disaster prevention)
  • administrative cooperation


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I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. But from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice -Theodore Parker

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