Judge Blocks Trump Administration From Adding Citizenship Question To The Census

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Ermagherd, I am rollin’ right now.  That’s three in a row!

[refugee 169]

3 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

You assumed they were referring to all non-citizens and as that poster clarified, they were not.

 

How about a happy result of shutting it down?  There are a lot of unfilled jobs out there.

Well: you even liked the post...

 

• Quote

Chris Duffy     93

Posted yesterday at 12:30 AM

  On 1/15/2019 at 6:07 PM, refugee said:

Non citizens pay Federal taxes, consume Federal services and are apart of the formula used to allocate Congressional districts, by law. 

Not many pay Federal taxes.

 

 

•  1

 

[Ban Hammer 12,836]

3 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

With ligaments and tendons attached?

someone has been watching spongebob..........

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

3 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

With ligaments and tendons attached?

you mods really need to provide a better spell check embedded.

[TBoneTX 43,058]

Making unreasonable demands of the staff, si man!  Reported!!!

[abum 324]

On 1/18/2019 at 7:45 AM, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

So you got anything about the econmy? Jobs , minorities unemployment,  ISIS in retreat, North Korea not firing muscles at Japan, 

 

I know small things 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stancollender/2018/04/15/on-the-deficit-gop-has-been-playing-us-all-for-suckers/#75e43e8b4694 on Economy, i believe small thing too. 

 

Quote

Just a few months after the tax bill was signed, the GOP-controlled Congress agreed to increase federal spending and the budget deficit by another $130 billion or so.

Think about this. The same congressional Republicans who over the previous eight years wanted everyone to believe they were fiscal conservatives hell-bent on balancing the budget and not increasing the national debt, sponsored, passed and then danced around the fire because of legislation that will result in a permanent $1 trillion deficit and a debt that will soar to close to 100 percent of GDP by 2028.

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

On 1/17/2019 at 9:54 AM, refugee said:

 

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/immigrants-in-the-united-states

Immigrants in the United States contribute billions of dollars in taxes.

• Immigrant-led households across the United States contributed a total of $223.6 billion in federal taxes and $104.6 billion in combined state and local taxes in 2014.
• Undocumented immigrants in the United States paid an estimated $11.7 billion in combined state and local taxes in 2014. Their estimated contribution would rise to $13.9 billion if they could receive legal status.
• DACA recipients paid an estimated $2 billion in combined state and local taxes in 2016.

As consumers, immigrants add hundreds of billions of dollars to the U.S. economy.

• In the United States, residents of immigrant-led households had $926.9 billion in collective spending power (after-tax income) in 2014.

Immigrant entrepreneurs in the United States generate tens of billions of dollars in business revenue.

• 3.3 million immigrant business owners accounted for 20.3 percent of all self-employed U.S. residents in 2015 and generated $72.3 billion in business income.
• In 2015, immigrants accounted for 21.9 percent of all business owners in 50 of the largest U.S. metropolitan areas

Forgot to get back to you on this the other day.  But here is an article (don’t get upset, it’s from 2012!!) that discusses the tax burden illegals place on our economy.  

 

Bear in mind, when this discussion first started, I was talking illegals, you were talking non-USC.  Kind of apples and oranges, but just to clarify, I mean illegal immigrants, not ALL immigrants.

 

https://www.wthr.com/article/tax-loophole-investigation

 

(Also, while the article started in 2012, it has been updated in 2018)

[refugee 169]

10 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

Forgot to get back to you on this the other day.  But here is an article (don’t get upset, it’s from 2012!!) that discusses the tax burden illegals place on our economy.  

 

Bear in mind, when this discussion first started, I was talking illegals, you were talking non-USC.  Kind of apples and oranges, but just to clarify, I mean illegal immigrants, not ALL immigrants.

 

https://www.wthr.com/article/tax-loophole-investigation

 

(Also, while the article started in 2012, it has been updated in 2018)

Thanks for clarifying. I weighed in because that distinction with was not made. 

We definitely subsidize undocumented residents if you count health care and public services,  but those folks are not hanging out like you nephew in moms basement.They are out in the fields, farms and worksites doing work we dont want to do, and directly or indirectly, we prosper from that system.

[yuna628 9,528]

9 minutes ago, refugee said:

Thanks for clarifying. I weighed in because that distinction with was not made. 

We definitely subsidize undocumented residents if you count health care and public services,  but those folks are not hanging out like you nephew in moms basement.They are out in the fields, farms and worksites doing work we dont want to do, and directly or indirectly, we prosper from that system.

Inherently though, whether we prosper from that system or not, it is a system that is directly harmful to the undocumented immigrant that basically utilizes them for slave labor. Certain aspects of this system have indentured servitude all over it. No doubt they are very hard workers, and do a great job, and yes we prosper from the riches and supply of cheap labor. But ask yourself, does that make it right? Is it fair to that person? Do we know if they are treated fairly?

 

 

[refugee 169]

15 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Inherently though, whether we prosper from that system or not, it is a system that is directly harmful to the undocumented immigrant that basically utilizes them for slave labor. Certain aspects of this system have indentured servitude all over it. No doubt they are very hard workers, and do a great job, and yes we prosper from the riches and supply of cheap labor. But ask yourself, does that make it right? Is it fair to that person? Do we know if they are treated fairly?

 

 

No it does not make it right, and in many cases these people are treated poorly, imorally. But the remedy is to dry up the demand for labor with programs like e-verify, and there seems to be little stomach for that politically. Because, we like our cheap lettuce and our ranch fences painted white. Dry up the demand for labor and the flow across the border slows. 

Sorry for the typos, my tablet checker stinx and I  cannot even edit this.

Edited January 21, 2019 by refugee

[Dashinka 23,240]

On 1/18/2019 at 4:44 PM, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

you mods really need to provide a better spell check embedded.

Keep wishing!

 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,315]

32 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Inherently though, whether we prosper from that system or not, it is a system that is directly harmful to the undocumented immigrant that basically utilizes them for slave labor. Certain aspects of this system have indentured servitude all over it. No doubt they are very hard workers, and do a great job, and yes we prosper from the riches and supply of cheap labor. But ask yourself, does that make it right? Is it fair to that person? Do we know if they are treated fairly?

 

 

slave labor is a bit dramatic and if its unfair why are they risking their lives to come do it

[yuna628 9,528]

53 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

slave labor is a bit dramatic and if its unfair why are they risking their lives to come do it

I don't find it to be that dramatic at all, and there are a lot of parallels between some forms of slavery and indentured servitude (if I had more time this week I could wrangle up the names of a few good documentaries and there is one good reporter writing a book on the subject). They are risking their lives because the alternative in many cases is death, no liberty at all, and the little money they receive is mostly going towards making either their children or some relative have a better future... the reasons are numerous and likely ones that any of us could make in that situation. The larger point is without that cheap labor, which we all benefit from, the costs of products and services rise, supply chain would likely have problems coping, and farms and other markets would struggle or fail. Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of e-verify and other harsh measures against employers (even though I have understood e-verify has some potential issues) BUT, how do we potentially solve the compounding issues it creates.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

8 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Inherently though, whether we prosper from that system or not, it is a system that is directly harmful to the undocumented immigrant that basically utilizes them for slave labor. Certain aspects of this system have indentured servitude all over it. No doubt they are very hard workers, and do a great job, and yes we prosper from the riches and supply of cheap labor. But ask yourself, does that make it right? Is it fair to that person? Do we know if they are treated fairly?

 

 

It's not slave labor.  The illegal immigrants choose to come here without the proper paperwork, illegally, and therefore cannot get a better paying job and perhaps they risk not being treated humanely.  But they are willing to do this to escape a worse life back home, they are not being bought and sold against their wills.  They are no more a slave than any housewife is.