RFE Cirumcstances of meeting

[payxibka 10,044]

1 hour ago, Hughlyn said:

Well after speaking to a lawyer, i was informed that legally they have no ground to deny the petition unless I submitted the petition while I was still married. That is not the case. The official divorce date was FEB 8th, 2018. The petition was not submitted until APRIL 26th, 2018. That is good news. Additionally, the EX moved out before I even met Lyn online.

I was thinking you bumped into a mandatory cooling off period after the divorce but in Texas that is only 30 days

[Hughlyn 12]

9 minutes ago, Damara said:

@Hughlyn Again please read the form and instructions carefully and interpret literally.

 

met in person during the 2yrs immediately before filing this petition. During means anytime from the date filed- 2yrs prior. Doesnt matter if it was 1yr and 11 months or 1 week. They are both DURING the 2yrs immediately before the petition was filed.

 

describe the circumstances of your inperson meeting....Attach evidence to demonstrate you were in each others physical presence during the required 2yr period. 

 

You are also combining 2 different issues. One is establishing you met in person during the 2 yr period. The other is establishing a bonafide relationship. Showing you were separated but not officially divorced is the latter.  (and yes- you can submit the 129f and state you met in person and began a relationship while still legally married. You CAN NOT however submit the 129f unless you are free to marry hence the attny statement that they can not deny you because you didnt file the 129f while married therefore ineligible is true but not your issue. USCIS did not state anything about you not being eligible to file because you were still married. 

met in person during the 2yrs immediately before filing this petition. During means anytime from the date filed- 2yrs prior. Doesnt matter if it was 1yr and 11 months or 1 week. They are both DURING the 2yrs immediately before the petition was filed. ------------ All the times we met, OCT 2017, DEC 2017, JAN to March 2018 evidence (plan tickets.. pictures.. etc) have been provided which was prior to my petetion on APRL 2018.

 

describe the circumstances of your inperson meeting....Attach evidence to demonstrate you were in each others physical presence during the required 2yr period. ----------- yes.. ll the times we met, OCT 2017, DEC 2017, JAN to March 2018 evidence (plan tickets.. pictures.. etc) have been provided which was prior to my petetion on APRL 2018.

 

You are also combining 2 different issues. One is establishing you met in person during the 2 yr period. The other is establishing a bonafide relationship. Showing you were separated but not officially divorced is the latter.  (and yes- you can submit the 129f and state you met in person and began a relationship while still legally married. You CAN NOT however submit the 129f unless you are free to marry hence the attny statement that they can not deny you because you didnt file the 129f while married therefore ineligible is true but not your issue. USCIS did not state anything about you not being eligible to file because you were still married. ----------------- Yes I was officially divorced in FEB 2018. SHe moved out APRIL 2017 and filed for the divorce in NOV 2017.

 

good info, please reply

 

4 minutes ago, payxibka said:

I was thinking you bumped into a mandatory cooling off period after the divorce but in Texas that is only 30 days

correct, texas is 30 days

[Hughlyn 12]

1 minute ago, Hughlyn said:

met in person during the 2yrs immediately before filing this petition. During means anytime from the date filed- 2yrs prior. Doesnt matter if it was 1yr and 11 months or 1 week. They are both DURING the 2yrs immediately before the petition was filed. ------------ All the times we met, OCT 2017, DEC 2017, JAN to March 2018 evidence (plan tickets.. pictures.. etc) have been provided which was prior to my petetion on APRL 2018.

 

describe the circumstances of your inperson meeting....Attach evidence to demonstrate you were in each others physical presence during the required 2yr period. ----------- yes.. ll the times we met, OCT 2017, DEC 2017, JAN to March 2018 evidence (plan tickets.. pictures.. etc) have been provided which was prior to my petetion on APRL 2018.

 

You are also combining 2 different issues. One is establishing you met in person during the 2 yr period. The other is establishing a bonafide relationship. Showing you were separated but not officially divorced is the latter.  (and yes- you can submit the 129f and state you met in person and began a relationship while still legally married. You CAN NOT however submit the 129f unless you are free to marry hence the attny statement that they can not deny you because you didnt file the 129f while married therefore ineligible is true but not your issue. USCIS did not state anything about you not being eligible to file because you were still married. ----------------- Yes I was officially divorced in FEB 2018. SHe moved out APRIL 2017 and filed for the divorce in NOV 2017.

 

good info, please reply

 

correct, texas is 30 days

Here are the times I been there so far.

 

October 14 2017 - October 19,2017
December 4, 2017- December 20,2017
January 14, 2018- march 11, 2018 
June 28- 2018-July 23, 2018

 

That is A LOT of time after I was seperated and also officially divorced. Keep in mine my petition was received on APRIL 26th ,2018

[geowrian 22,335]

The RFE is either asking for evidence that you met in person and/or that you did not meet through an  IMB. I've seen the "circumstances of meeting" header for both cases.

 

Just saying you met through facebook may have been insufficient for the IO...you normally don't just message a random person on fb and start a relationship. I think they may want more details to ensure it wasn't through an IMB.

 

Also, they could be requesting evidence of meeting at least once within the 2 years prior to filing the petition, as required by IMBRA. What evidence of meeting in person within that timeframe did you provide?

 

Edit (I just saw your newest 2 posts):

Plane tickets only show you bought a flight, not that you actually boarded it. Passport stamps would be better to show.

Putting a date to a photo is very difficult. They want some hard evidence of meeting in person.

Edited November 8, 2018 by geowrian

[Hughlyn 12]

2 minutes ago, geowrian said:

The RFE is either asking for evidence that you met in person and/or that you did not meet through an  IMB. I've seen the "circumstances of meeting" header for both cases.

 

Just saying you met through facebook may have been insufficient for the IO...you normally don't just message a random person on fb and start a relationship. I think they may want more details to ensure it wasn't through an IMB.

 

Also, they could be requesting evidence of meeting at least once within the 2 years prior to filing the petition, as required by IMBRA. What evidence of meeting in person within that timeframe did you provide?

I have provided evidence of all the times we met in person (Dates below) To include airline boarding passes and many pictures.

 

IN PERSON DATES ARE:

October 14 2017 - October 19,2017
December 4, 2017- December 20,2017
January 14,2018- march 11, 2018 
June 28- 2018-July 23, 2018

[payxibka 10,044]

8 minutes ago, geowrian said:

The RFE is either asking for evidence that you met in person and/or that you did not meet through an  IMB. I've seen the "circumstances of meeting" header for both cases.

 

Just saying you met through facebook may have been insufficient for the IO...you normally don't just message a random person on fb and start a relationship. I think they may want more details to ensure it wasn't through an IMB.

 

Also, they could be requesting evidence of meeting at least once within the 2 years prior to filing the petition, as required by IMBRA. What evidence of meeting in person within that timeframe did you provide?

 

Edit (I just saw your newest 2 posts):

Plane tickets only show you bought a flight, not that you actually boarded it. Passport stamps would be better to show.

Putting a date to a photo is very difficult. They want some hard evidence of meeting in person.

The two year meeting requirement has been around way longer than imbra.  Imbra is not why it is required

[payxibka 10,044]

I read your example response and it sounds a bit patronizing.  My suggestion is a factual response 

[Villanelle 4,121]

Quote

In my letter on intent I clearly stated that met her several times on a close friend basis as we bonded very well and had spent lots of time together and discussing life's challenges and getting closer. Also that I proposed to her on March 11th, 2018.

Do you have a copy of what you sent? Can you please post exactly what your response was to #54- editing out of course names/personally identifying info. 

 

 

 

 

[Hughlyn 12]

13 minutes ago, Damara said:

Do you have a copy of what you sent? Can you please post exactly what your response was to #54- editing out of course names/personally identifying info. 

 

 

 

 

So at the time this was filled it, it was accurate. However I have been here on teh dates below and also plan going there end of htis month.

 

October 14 2017 - October 19,2017

December 4, 2017- December 20,2017

January 14,2018- march 11, 2018

June 28- 2018-July 23, 2018

[Hughlyn 12]

6 minutes ago, Hughlyn said:

So at the time this was filled it, it was accurate. However I have been here on teh dates below and also plan going there end of htis month.

 

October 14 2017 - October 19,2017

December 4, 2017- December 20,2017

January 14,2018- march 11, 2018

June 28- 2018-July 23, 2018

So to answer this RFE... i feel the response should be honest and to the points. such as:

 

I have been separated from my ex-wife since April 2017 when our relationship ended and our divorce was finalized on February 8th 2018.

 

Lyn and I did indeed meet on Facebook on June 2017 through a mutual friend and we became close friends. Our friendship grew stronger turning into a great relationship.  We met in person several times (See dates below) that strengthened our relationship. 

 

I proposed to Lyn for marriage on March 11th, 2018 and filed the petition on April 2018.  Since then I have also been to the Philippines to see Lyn in June 2018 through July 2018.  I have spent over 5 months in person with Lyn and plan to be at the embassy interview.

 

October 14 2017 - October 19,2017
December 4, 2017- December 20,2017
January 14,2018- march 11, 2018 
June 28- 2018-July 23, 2018

[wxman22 109]

I think Damara among others gave great advice. 

In looking at your latest response, I think (and I have no experience with this process) you could be more literal  and chronological in your response. 

They want to know about your meetings in person. Your response, while it may to obvious to you, could be interpreted in different ways, thus the RFE in the first place.

 

Something like this:

I have been separated from my ex-wife since April 2017 when our relationship ended and our divorce was finalized on February 8th 2018.

 

Lyn and I started to communicate on Facebook on June XX, 2017, after being introduced  thru a mutual friend.  

Our friendship grew stronger turning into a great relationship., at which point I decided to go visit her in XXX on October 14 2017

 

My first trip to see her was on October 14 2017. in XXX, I stayed int he XXX Hotel. We spent the days doing such and such. (pictures attached, [a couple not a 100]).  I departed October 19,2017

My second trip, December 4, 2017 until December 20,2017
My third trip, I was able to stay two months, from January 14,2018 to March 11, 2018 .I proposed to Lyn for marriage on March 11th, 2018 and filed the I-129F petition on April 2018
My forth trip was June 28- 2018 to July 23, 2018 

 

I have spent over 5 months in person with Lyn and plan to be at the embassy interview.

 

thanks my two cents worth. Good luck.

 

 

•  

[Villanelle 4,121]

The above by wxman22 is exactly how you should respond= editing the specifics as needed. You should also add (as silly as it seems) a statement that and proof that facebook is not an IMBRA (marriage broker website). Plenty of posts on VJ on how to do this- use the search feature. You want to cover all your bases. 

 

It seems you got a picky Officer and your statement was too broad and open to interpretation- which they did, just not in your favor. This happens. The main problem is the 2 questions on the 129f ask about in person meetings. There is nothing wrong with simply answering the question nor is there anything wrong with giving a more detailed statement including where and how you first met (interacted in person or online). If you give an expanded statement you open yourself up to having more questions thrown at you. Many people include that they met online and then check no its not an IMBRA but are then asked for more proof its not an IMBRA- because they put it out there that it was online. So some advise to not say more then it asks. On the other hand some situations (overlapping divorce/relationship situations, specific countries, etc) in those cases it is a huge advantage to 'frontload'. That basically means giving them stuff they didnt ask for right up front. If you do this it needs to be complete or as stated it will bring up more questions. 

 

Right now you are in a situation where you gave them extra info but it was inadvertently vague so it needs to be clarified in addition to providing an appropriate answer to the questions on the form. Also your divorce decree may state the date of separation that you can refer them to. It may be in the final decree or it may be in the settlement agreement or initial filing paperwork in which case provide the paperwork as evidence of the marriage not being viable when your new relationship started.y

[payxibka 10,044]

2 hours ago, Damara said:

The above by wxman22 is exactly how you should respond= editing the specifics as needed. You should also add (as silly as it seems) a statement that and proof that facebook is not an IMBRA (marriage broker website). Plenty of posts on VJ on how to do this- use the search feature. You want to cover all your bases. 

 

It seems you got a picky Officer and your statement was too broad and open to interpretation- which they did, just not in your favor. This happens. The main problem is the 2 questions on the 129f ask about in person meetings. There is nothing wrong with simply answering the question nor is there anything wrong with giving a more detailed statement including where and how you first met (interacted in person or online). If you give an expanded statement you open yourself up to having more questions thrown at you. Many people include that they met online and then check no its not an IMBRA but are then asked for more proof its not an IMBRA- because they put it out there that it was online. So some advise to not say more then it asks. On the other hand some situations (overlapping divorce/relationship situations, specific countries, etc) in those cases it is a huge advantage to 'frontload'. That basically means giving them stuff they didnt ask for right up front. If you do this it needs to be complete or as stated it will bring up more questions. 

 

Right now you are in a situation where you gave them extra info but it was inadvertently vague so it needs to be clarified in addition to providing an appropriate answer to the questions on the form. Also your divorce decree may state the date of separation that you can refer them to. It may be in the final decree or it may be in the settlement agreement or initial filing paperwork in which case provide the paperwork as evidence of the marriage not being viable when your new relationship started.y

Treat this like a deposition.  Respond to the rfe factually but only the rfe.  Do not go beyond and include items not in question.  Facebook being a IMB is NOT being questioned, don't add facts not in evidence

[bf__ 501]

Hi all! Is this a normal thing to happen?

 

My partner was legally married up until June 2018, although they hadn't actually lived together for 3 years at this point. She had even moved states. We didn't document this in writing, but included a divorce decree and the previous addresses indicated she moved away from the previous state before I ever met her. 

 

Can we expect an RFE because we didn't specifically say that they had lived apart? 

It's worth noting that we included a lengthy document about how we met, when we met, who spent time where, etc.

[debbiedoo 2,339]

35 minutes ago, brandonflude1 said:

Hi all! Is this a normal thing to happen?

 

My partner was legally married up until June 2018, although they hadn't actually lived together for 3 years at this point. She had even moved states. We didn't document this in writing, but included a divorce decree and the previous addresses indicated she moved away from the previous state before I ever met her. 

 

Can we expect an RFE because we didn't specifically say that they had lived apart? 

It's worth noting that we included a lengthy document about how we met, when we met, who spent time where, etc.

depends mostly on the officer who has your file. we were not questioned about anything in our petition and in hindsight, there are a few things they COULD have RFE'd for.