Gaps in 'bona fide marriage' proof - tips, suggestions?

[eckoin 211]

You guys were right--my interview was scheduled today for Dec. 11, and I have way less time to prepare than I was hoping.  Here is my list of proof of bona fide marriage; I am missing three major things that I think most people have, and I can't get it in time.

 

1. Joint bank account - none.  We were going to go in and open it last month and never got around to it.  No point for AOS anymore (though I know we should still do it for ROC so we will).

2. Joint lease/mortgage - none.  My husband owns the home we live in, and though he does have a home equity line, I am not on the home equity line contract.

3. Photographs - I hate pictures and never took any.  We have one family picture I forced ourselves to take with a professional photographer so our kid knows what I looked like... 

 

What we do have:

 

1. Joint auto insurance - both names

2. Joint home insurance - both names

3. Joint medical & dental insurance - both names + baby

4. Joint cell phone bill - both names

5. A child born in the US after our marriage - both names on the certificate

6. Various joint memberships: Costco, Children's Museum, AAA, Amazon Prime

7. Various bills on one name or another, but to the same address - phone/internet in my name, electric in my husband's name, etc.

8. Driver's licenses with the same address

9. 401(k) + life insurance in my name through work - baby + husband as beneficiaries 

10. Pet insurance in my name, with both of us listed as emergency contacts

11. We can get statements from the pediatrician, daycare, and the vet that list all of us living together and both as emergency contacts

12. I did not include any travel information in the packet - we met in the US and lived together in the US the entire time we were dating.  However, I can include:

a. A few flights to visit his family for all three of us

b. A train ticket for the three of us

c. Various hotels we stayed at, but in one name only

d. Various AirBnbs we stayed at, but in my name only - though the reviews we got from hosts often mention all of us 

 

Questions:

1. Should we bring our one year old to the interview?  We already might have to, if the interview is early in the morning and we can't drop her off in daycare.  But in this case... could it help to bring her?  

2. Anything else I may have forgotten to include?

3. How do I deflect joint finances questions best?

4. Anything else to consider, or any tips/suggestions?

[Villanelle 4,121]

Lol you dont avoid the joint finances. Just because you do not have a joint account does not mean you do not have 'joint finances'. Do you each have a bank account or only one of you have an account? Do you both work or are you a stay at home mom to the 1yr old? If only one person earns income and theres only one bank account then you need to bring statements and show expenses for BOTH of you are paid out of the one account. If you guys have 2 accounts then you will want to show both accounts and be prepared to explain how things are divided. Does he pay mortgage and you pay groceries? 

If you can not find anyone to watch baby then she will have to come. Will it help? hurt? Eh. Some people dont like kids, others adore them. If the baby is fussing and crying it can irk the Officer. If the baby is warm and cooing or sleeping peacefully it might soften them. (nyquil anyone? lol, sorry that was a bad joke- never ever drug a baby!). Children are considered evidence when reviewing proof just like any other evidence is considered. 

[eckoin 211]

49 minutes ago, Damara said:

Lol you dont avoid the joint finances. Just because you do not have a joint account does not mean you do not have 'joint finances'. Do you each have a bank account or only one of you have an account? Do you both work or are you a stay at home mom to the 1yr old? If only one person earns income and theres only one bank account then you need to bring statements and show expenses for BOTH of you are paid out of the one account. If you guys have 2 accounts then you will want to show both accounts and be prepared to explain how things are divided. Does he pay mortgage and you pay groceries? 

If you can not find anyone to watch baby then she will have to come. Will it help? hurt? Eh. Some people dont like kids, others adore them. If the baby is fussing and crying it can irk the Officer. If the baby is warm and cooing or sleeping peacefully it might soften them. (nyquil anyone? lol, sorry that was a bad joke- never ever drug a baby!). Children are considered evidence when reviewing proof just like any other evidence is considered. 

That's helpful, thanks!  

 

I didn't mean avoiding the joint finance questions, just defusing being asked point blank, "do you have a joint bank account"--instead of "nope" I'd like to show other ways we've joined finances, if that makes sense.

 

We have two separate bank accounts and separate credit cards.  I bank with Chase, I opened an account when I was working in FL and there's no Chase branch in SC so I can't add my husband to my account without going out of state.  We're going to open an account with BoA since at least they have branches country-wide.

 

I have a job, and I used that job in our I-864 extensively--my husband opened his own business which is only now gaining ground, so I make the majority of the household income (and it will become permanent pending my permanent status).  He pays for the home equity line, the electrical bill, and the home insurance; I pay for auto insurance, cell phone, home phone/internet, and daycare (as well as medical/dental through my job).  We have the same address on all bills, but our individual names on both.  We can describe this for sure, but do you think this is where we have a binder of: bill--bill paid from this account; bill--bill paid form this account; etc.?  We have all the bills and all the payments, it's just not "joint" in the explicit sense of "joint".  Thoughts welcome.

 

I agree on the baby--it could go either way.  She's easy going, but if she gets fussy, then it'll just be annoying for the officer... Probably best to leave her at daycare.  Our interview is at 1:45pm, so it's not a major issue to do so; I'm sure the birth certificate is enough to prove we got one.

[USC4SPOUSE 506]

5 hours ago, Damara said:

Lol you dont avoid the joint finances. Just because you do not have a joint account does not mean you do not have 'joint finances'. Do you each have a bank account or only one of you have an account? Do you both work or are you a stay at home mom to the 1yr old? If only one person earns income and theres only one bank account then you need to bring statements and show expenses for BOTH of you are paid out of the one account. If you guys have 2 accounts then you will want to show both accounts and be prepared to explain how things are divided. Does he pay mortgage and you pay groceries? 

If you can not find anyone to watch baby then she will have to come. Will it help? hurt? Eh. Some people dont like kids, others adore them. If the baby is fussing and crying it can irk the Officer. If the baby is warm and cooing or sleeping peacefully it might soften them. (nyquil anyone? lol, sorry that was a bad joke- never ever drug a baby!). Children are considered evidence when reviewing proof just like any other evidence is considered. 

LOL, I thought the Nyquil joke was pretty funny. 

[USC4SPOUSE 506]

I would definitely spend time delineating in full sentences how you two pay for joint responsibilities/bills. I would also consider getting a financial power of attorney and an Advanced Health Care Directive. Both are supposed to be notarized to be valid. 

 

I would use the Table of Contents on this thread as a guide. Of course, CookieCat put it together for her I-751 filing. However, it's a great example of how to stage your evidence to connect the dots for the officer. 

Whether to bring the baby or not, that's up to you. Be mindful of the fact that not everyone wants a baby puking, peeing or pooping in their office. So that's something to consider. 

I would focus on the financial evidence behind the baby - medical bills, purchases, etc. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by USC4SPOUSE

[eckoin 211]

11 hours ago, USC4SPOUSE said:

I would definitely spend time delineating in full sentences how you two pay for joint responsibilities/bills. I would also consider getting a financial power of attorney and an Advanced Health Care Directive. Both are supposed to be notarized to be valid. 

 

I would use the Table of Contents on this thread as a guide. Of course, CookieCat put it together for her I-751 filing. However, it's a great example of how to stage your evidence to connect the dots for the officer. 

Whether to bring the baby or not, that's up to you. Be mindful of the fact that not everyone wants a baby puking, peeing or pooping in their office. So that's something to consider. 

I would focus on the financial evidence behind the baby - medical bills, purchases, etc. 

 

 

 

 

That list of evidence is freaking me out. 

[lierre 224]

The Costco, amazon prime etc memberships is overkill. Tax returns of you filing jointly is good. Order for at least the past 2-3 years.

 

Letters from peds etc would be overkill, too. I would rather you get notarized affidavits from a couple of people who were at your wedding... for example, one family member and one friend who was part of the wedding party.

 

For proof of joint travel, I just included maybe a couple, not everywhere we’ve ever traveled to.

 

Also, search for VJ guides on this. Don’t overkill it with the proof. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by lierre

[USC4SPOUSE 506]

Overkill all the way!

[USC4SPOUSE 506]

5 hours ago, eckoin said:

That list of evidence is freaking me out. 

LOL, it shouldn't freak you out. It makes sense to use it as your guide, since USCIS expects that level of evidence for your I-751. You might as well start it now. The only difference is that for AOS you start from the date you met/started dating. For the I-751, you start since the date of the marriage. There will be a lot of overlap. So again, you might as well start now and secure that conditional green card. 

 

 

[eckoin 211]

3 hours ago, lierre said:

The Costco, amazon prime etc memberships is overkill. Tax returns of you filing jointly is good. Order for at least the past 2-3 years.

 

Letters from peds etc would be overkill, too. I would rather you get notarized affidavits from a couple of people who were at your wedding... for example, one family member and one friend who was part of the wedding party.

 

For proof of joint travel, I just included maybe a couple, not everywhere we’ve ever traveled to.

 

Also, search for VJ guides on this. Don’t overkill it with the proof. 

OK, I clearly need to be grounded here so thank you both!  I have seen people include all their joint memberships in some of the write-ups, so I figured it can't hurt--but I think it could hurt (well, hurt as in, annoy the officer with the minutiae).  Is that what y'all are saying?

 

We had a courthouse wedding with no witnesses (I guess you don't need witnesses when the probate judge herself marries you).  I was like 7 months pregnant and we've been planning to do a proper honeymoon instead of a wedding for... well, a long time now.  Instead we just do little weekend road trips with the dogs and the baby.

 

We do have three (non-notarized) affidavits from a friend, a coworker, and my husband's parents that we included in the package.  Forgot about the joint tax return--included that, too, but only one since we got married in 2017.  Won't have the 2018 return until after the conditional GC interview, but we'll have it for I-751.

 

40 minutes ago, USC4SPOUSE said:

LOL, it shouldn't freak you out. It makes sense to use it as your guide, since USCIS expects that level of evidence for your I-751. You might as well start it now. The only difference is that for AOS you start from the date you met/started dating. For the I-751, you start since the date of the marriage. There will be a lot of overlap. So again, you might as well start now and secure that conditional green card. 

 

 

I'll consider ourselves to be doing pretty well if we can get one joint bank account setup and actually use it.  Everything's been on autopay on various individual credit cards for so long, and frankly, the only reason we're going to be getting a joint account is for the benefit of USCIS.  I'm not complaining that they want to see this sort of thing, I'm just saying that our current approach works best for us so I can't imagine getting multiple credit card accounts set up.  I can barely imagine the hassle of adding both names to our various bill accounts--what's the point of that, besides proving bona fide marriage to immigration?  I just don't get why couples who aren't in the immigration process would bother with that.  Who cares who's on the electrical or the internet bill?  

 

OK, rant over.  So you guys are saying that, while I should obviously start getting a lot more pieces of the puzzle together for the eventual ROC application, for now I should bring with me what I have listed in the OP, the joint tax return, the three affidavits I already have, minus: 

- various memberships no one cares about

- various write-ups from pediatricians and other silly stuff

 

And if asked why we don't have a joint bank account, just say the truth--my husband was already living at our current home when we started dating so he continued to pay for electrical, while I took over the cell phone and home internet bills which evened out, and then we progressed splitting the bills roughly down the middle as we added new ones, like pet insurance and other expenses, etc.  And I guess have a bunch of bills ready with an outline of who pays for what if the IO is oddly interested in this sort of break-down.  Is that fair?

[USC4SPOUSE 506]

It is your green card. It's all up to you. I sent history logs of my smart lock at home which show us coming an going through the front/back door. Why? Because I am not taking any chances and have nothing to hide. Overkill? Perhaps. That's how I do things. And that's how a lot of people approach things. I leave no stone unturned. Denial is not an option for my husband. We are a same sex couple and living in Malaysia in peace as a same sex couple is not an option. So we sent EVERYTHING and the kitchen sink. If that happens to raise the bar for others - it seems like that is a concern for some, then so be it. 🙂 

[eckoin 211]

17 minutes ago, USC4SPOUSE said:

It is your green card. It's all up to you. I sent history logs of my smart lock at home which show us coming an going through the front/back door. Why? Because I am not taking any chances and have nothing to hide. Overkill? Perhaps. That's how I do things. And that's how a lot of people approach things. I leave no stone unturned. Denial is not an option for my husband. We are a same sex couple and living in Malaysia in peace as a same sex couple is not an option. So we sent EVERYTHING and the kitchen sink. If that happens to raise the bar for others - it seems like that is a concern for some, then so be it. 🙂 

OH I misinterpreted your comment.  I thought you were agreeing that I'm overkilling it, not that overkill is the best thing since sliced bread.  I think I agree on overkill > underkill, especially since we apparently can't operate under the basic rules of marriage, which is like, removing all financial agency and consolidating it into one big thing for--what I fail to understand as legitimate but that's just me--reasons.  I think I'll have all of that fluff ready just in case the IO presses on why we suck at this joint account thing.  I imagine if they're really interested, it's a good idea to have a list of all the things where it made sense to consolidate (insurance, family-based memberships) and all the things where it has so far been largely irrelevant.  I'm also liking the idea of a financial power of attorney basically, but since we can't get to the bank at the same time, I'm unclear on whether we'll get to that.  Maybe we can get that drafted at the bank when (if...) we get that joint account set up.  

[lierre 224]

1 hour ago, eckoin said:

OK, I clearly need to be grounded here so thank you both!  I have seen people include all their joint memberships in some of the write-ups, so I figured it can't hurt--but I think it could hurt (well, hurt as in, annoy the officer with the minutiae).  Is that what y'all are saying?

 

We had a courthouse wedding with no witnesses (I guess you don't need witnesses when the probate judge herself marries you).  I was like 7 months pregnant and we've been planning to do a proper honeymoon instead of a wedding for... well, a long time now.  Instead we just do little weekend road trips with the dogs and the baby.

 

We do have three (non-notarized) affidavits from a friend, a coworker, and my husband's parents that we included in the package.  Forgot about the joint tax return--included that, too, but only one since we got married in 2017.  Won't have the 2018 return until after the conditional GC interview, but we'll have it for I-751.

 

I'll consider ourselves to be doing pretty well if we can get one joint bank account setup and actually use it.  Everything's been on autopay on various individual credit cards for so long, and frankly, the only reason we're going to be getting a joint account is for the benefit of USCIS.  I'm not complaining that they want to see this sort of thing, I'm just saying that our current approach works best for us so I can't imagine getting multiple credit card accounts set up.  I can barely imagine the hassle of adding both names to our various bill accounts--what's the point of that, besides proving bona fide marriage to immigration?  I just don't get why couples who aren't in the immigration process would bother with that.  Who cares who's on the electrical or the internet bill?  

 

OK, rant over.  So you guys are saying that, while I should obviously start getting a lot more pieces of the puzzle together for the eventual ROC application, for now I should bring with me what I have listed in the OP, the joint tax return, the three affidavits I already have, minus: 

- various memberships no one cares about

- various write-ups from pediatricians and other silly stuff

 

And if asked why we don't have a joint bank account, just say the truth--my husband was already living at our current home when we started dating so he continued to pay for electrical, while I took over the cell phone and home internet bills which evened out, and then we progressed splitting the bills roughly down the middle as we added new ones, like pet insurance and other expenses, etc.  And I guess have a bunch of bills ready with an outline of who pays for what if the IO is oddly interested in this sort of break-down.  Is that fair?

 

Sorry, I was on my phone and I couldn't do any further typing on it so my answers were so short. But, now I'm on a desktop comp! Yey!

 

So, a little context to my experience if that will help you frame my response... I did RoC. We lived apart for three-fourths of the time I was a conditional resident because of our careers. We don't have kids and we have lovely furkids. 

 

When I sent my RoC package, there was a major family issue (back home, not the US) so I just gathered a few things, sent it off, receive a GC extension letter in the mail, and got approved less than 3 months later. And those few things were:

• a cover letter describing why we have to live apart and enumerating all the documents in the package
• our tax returns reflecting married filing jointly for the past 3 years (my USC spouse was filing US taxes even before we moved to the US)
• the most recent monthly bank statement for our joint account
• a copy of the military-generated form (my spouse is military) where it listed me as a spouse
• joint auto insurance form
• forms that showed I was a beneficiary for all my spouse's life insurance policies and that he was the beneficiary in mine
• two utility bills: an electric bill for the house we own that was in my spouse's name & a water bill for the same house in my name
• a copy of the lease for a house we lived in briefly that was in both of our names
• a pet insurance policy for one of our dogs that had both our names
• a few pictures of our travels after we moved to the US, including one when we visited USC spouse's siblings

 

Looking back now, I realized the pet insurance policy was overkill. I thought about getting notarized affidavits from my spouse's mother and the Best Man at our wedding, but I didn't have the energy to take care of it (due to the major family issue occurring at that time).

 

I hope that helps you. 😊

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by lierre

[USC4SPOUSE 506]

24 minutes ago, eckoin said:

OH I misinterpreted your comment.  I thought you were agreeing that I'm overkilling it, not that overkill is the best thing since sliced bread.  I think I agree on overkill > underkill, especially since we apparently can't operate under the basic rules of marriage, which is like, removing all financial agency and consolidating it into one big thing for--what I fail to understand as legitimate but that's just me--reasons.  I think I'll have all of that fluff ready just in case the IO presses on why we suck at this joint account thing.  I imagine if they're really interested, it's a good idea to have a list of all the things where it made sense to consolidate (insurance, family-based memberships) and all the things where it has so far been largely irrelevant.  I'm also liking the idea of a financial power of attorney basically, but since we can't get to the bank at the same time, I'm unclear on whether we'll get to that.  Maybe we can get that drafted at the bank when (if...) we get that joint account set up.  

 

On 10/31/2018 at 1:53 PM, Damara said:

Just because you do not have a joint account does not mean you do not have 'joint finances'. Do you each have a bank account or only one of you have an account? Do you both work or are you a stay at home mom to the 1yr old? If only one person earns income and theres only one bank account then you need to bring statements and show expenses for BOTH of you are paid out of the one account. If you guys have 2 accounts then you will want to show both accounts and be prepared to explain how things are divided. Does he pay mortgage and you pay groceries?

 

Read Damara's comment. Just because you do not have a joint checking account does not mean you do not have joint finances. You are jointly responsible for keeping your household financially afloat right? Well, that means you do have joint liabilities and therefore, joint finances.

 

Literally state on your table of contents who pays for what and out of what account. Now, why is it useful to have your spouse on utilites/internet etc? Well, your spouse would then be able to call if there is an issue. 

 

It seems like you're fighting this. As the spouse of a US citizen you have the right to apply for adjustment of status BUT you are NOT entitled to adjustment of status. Refugees, asylees, NACARA folks are entitled to adjustment of status. You are not. 

 

Don't fight it. You don't come from a high fraud country. If you did, then I would say triple overkill it. 

[eckoin 211]

19 minutes ago, USC4SPOUSE said:

 

 

Read Damara's comment. Just because you do not have a joint checking account does not mean you do not have joint finances. You are jointly responsible for keeping your household financially afloat right? Well, that means you do have joint liabilities and therefore, joint finances.

 

Literally state on your table of contents who pays for what and out of what account. Now, why is it useful to have your spouse on utilites/internet etc? Well, your spouse would then be able to call if there is an issue. 

 

It seems like you're fighting this. As the spouse of a US citizen you have the right to apply for adjustment of status BUT you are NOT entitled to adjustment of status. Refugees, asylees, NACARA folks are entitled to adjustment of status. You are not. 

 

Don't fight it. You don't come from a high fraud country. If you did, then I would say triple overkill it. 

You're right, I am totally fighting this.  I don't know if it's the nerves or my crappy combatant personality.  Either way I think I know deep-down it's of no use to do so

 

I'll put together a package of how our finances are joint despite the lack of an actual joint account.  Thanks!