Born in the USA...

[Mike E 11,723]

1 hour ago, little immigrant said:

Let her find out if she is a USC first

Unless renouncing as a teenager means 19 or 18, she is most definitely American.  She can even run for POTUS. 

[geowrian 22,335]

10 hours ago, Mike E said:

No they are not.   https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Renunciation-US-Nationality-Abroad.html

 

”Citizenship is a status that is personal to the U.S. citizen. Therefore parents may not renounce the citizenship of their minor children. “

Touche...parents cannot do it on their behalf.

 

10 hours ago, Mike E said:

This woman is an American and CBP should have been hassling her to use a USA passport to enter the USA.  

Still not necessarily...we don't know that for sure. A child can still renounce citizenship, although there are additional protections to ensure they know what they are really doing:

" Minors seeking to renounce their U.S. citizenship must demonstrate to a consular officer that they are acting voluntarily, without undue influence from parent(s), and that they fully understand the implications/consequences attendant to the renunciation of U.S. citizenship.  Children under 16 are presumed not to have the requisite maturity and knowing intent to relinquish citizenship; children under 18 are provided additional safeguards during the renunciation process, and their cases are afforded very careful consideration by post and the Department to assess their voluntariness and informed intent. "

 

Also, the fact that they obtained and used an ESTA is a bit odd, since USCs do not qualify for the VWP so that should have been caught as well.

She may well be a USC, but the jury is still out on anything definitive....they need to verify this with the embassy/consulate.

[Diane and Chris 651]

Well, I certainly hope OP lets us know how it goes. This is an interesting situation. 

[lierre 224]

21 hours ago, little immigrant said:

Is she still in possession of her US birth certificate? 

This. Does she have her US birth certificate?

 

And her US passport, was it given back or does she still have it with her?

 

Also, OP & girlfriend might wanna read this: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Renunciation-US-Nationality-Abroad.html

 

[Mike E 11,723]

On 10/22/2018 at 6:28 PM, geowrian said:

 

Also, the fact that they obtained and used an ESTA is a bit odd, since USCs do not qualify for the VWP so that should have been caught as well.

Not at all. Getting an ESTA is a common scam for dual citizens who've let their USA passports lapse but want to board the plane home. CBP don't like it, but they can't do anything about it.

 

On 10/22/2018 at 6:28 PM, geowrian said:

She may well be a USC, but the jury is still out on anything definitive....they need to verify this with the embassy/consulate.

She doesn't remember standing in from of a consular officer renouncing. If the USA lists her as renouncing, it was done illegally.

[James D 39]

On 10/22/2018 at 11:57 AM, Mike E said:

And btw, because she is an American, she should have been filing tax returns. She probably doesn’t owe any taxes but she is supposed to file to be sure.  She can file her 2017 tax return now.   

She should not forget to use Form 2555 where she can exclude a big chunk, US80,000 or more, of her foreign earned income.

[Going through 5,668]

On 10/24/2018 at 4:09 AM, Mike E said:

She doesn't remember standing in from of a consular officer renouncing. If the USA lists her as renouncing, it was done illegally.

Not necessarily illegal by any means....perhaps back then there was no needing to stand up, raise the hand, etc.  The norm back then (if this happened) could have been just her parents signing paperwork on her behalf since she was a minor and enough appropriate answers to questions asked by a CO.  

 

Remember we're talking at least a decade or so, if not more, right?  Back then many things were differently than how they are done now.  Heck---back then it wasn't even called "USCIS" (now I'm aging myself....)

 

Best way is for her to verify this with the consulate/embassy as suggested.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Going through

[jan22 2,898]

7 hours ago, Going through said:

Not necessarily illegal by any means....perhaps back then there was no needing to stand up, raise the hand, etc.  The norm back then (if this happened) could have been just her parents signing paperwork on her behalf since she was a minor and enough appropriate answers to questions asked by a CO.  

 

Remember we're talking at least a decade or so, if not more, right?  Back then many things were differently than how they are done now.  Heck---back then it wasn't even called "USCIS" (now I'm aging myself....)

 

Best way is for her to verify this with the consulate/embassy as suggested.

The requirement to renounce citizenship, under oath, in front of a consular officer, has been in place for more than 25 years. Likewise, the inability of a parent to renounce the citizenship of a minor child.  Supreme Court decisions in the 1980s made it almost impossible to lose your US citizenship absent a clear intent to do so.

[Mike E 11,723]

9 hours ago, Going through said:

Not necessarily illegal by any means....perhaps back then there was no needing to stand up, raise the hand, etc.  The norm back then (if this happened) could have been just her parents signing paperwork on her behalf since she was a minor and enough appropriate answers to questions asked by a CO.  

 

Remember we're talking at least a decade or so, if not more, right?  Back then many things were differently than how they are done now.  Heck---back then it wasn't even called "USCIS" (now I'm aging myself....)

 

Best way is for her to verify this with the consulate/embassy as suggested.

America is a nation of laws. The renunciation law was passed in 1952. 

 

OP's girl must be pretty old I guess.

[SFSgrad 4]

To all that commented on this topic..... Thank you....and we have finished the process....and are happy to announce, she has her "Eagle" in hand!  (Eagle is the nickname they give for American passports in Korea.)

 

For those that might run into this scenario, I will summarize.

 

The facts:  My GF was born in the US, and had some childhood passports in her possession.  Her parents had filed for a US birth certificate at her birth, but it had since been lost.  She left the US at around the age of 2, and lived the next 49 years as a Korean citizen.  Sometime in her late teens, her parents took some sort of action to tell the US embassy in Korea that they would not longer be pursuing passports for her.

 

The Process:  Based on comments here, and logic I had her make an appointment at the US embassy in Seoul just to explore the chances of her getting her passport back.  I had her bring all documents that we had, which was basically just childhood passports.   Within a minute, the embassy rep had told her unequivocally that she WAS a US Citizen, and could have a passport within two weeks.

 

Well..... it did not quite happen that fast, however from the time all requirements were met, she did have it "in hand" in 8 calendar days!  (Keep in mind, Korea is one of the most efficient countries on the planet...and maybe this has worn off on the US embassy there....hehehe.

 

The embassy asked her about 1/2 dozen questions that were tailored to her situation, basically a paper trail to what was discussed in her initial interview.  They also asked for a series of pictures, starting from her age of last passport, showing her age progression ....from child to current age.  I am not sure if this would be required of all, but she had a slight name change from US birth certificate to the name she used in Korea (Got to love those Asian Mother-in-laws....hehehe).

 

The embassy aspect was a well oiled machine, and everything worked as explained.  However, this story is not without the wheels coming off the bus at some point.....  The difficulty came when we tried to get a copy of her birth certificate....and man....did incompetence rein!!!  Clearly the system had no tolerance for a foreign origin request.  The staff (more on this later) that handled her application did not have a clue on how to handle her application, and each phone call generated a different answer...and I mean....not even similar answer.  The digital forms did not have nearly enough space to accommodate a foreign address, and so many entries had to be abbreviated, but not in such a manner that the mailman could not still get a correspondence through.

 

To make a long story short.... I noticed the application center was manned 24/7..... so since I live in Hawaii, I chose a time that would be middle of the night for mainlanders.....and got a hold of an agent....who not only knew his job, but was intelligent and had spent some years living overseas.  Wow....luck, fate, whatever you want to call it....I am not sure where we would be if our paths had not crossed.  Much of the issues involved long Korean addresses not matching the short ones that would fit into their digital fields....  He was able to look at the long one, and the shorter ones that we could enter....and simply conclude....YUP this is the same address.  WOW.... All others could not do this...let alone comprehend that their fields would not allow us to create mirror image addresses.  In summary, before I hung up the phone, I knew her birth certificate had been pushed through the system.

 

Once the embassy had BC in hand, they scheduled one more interview with parents (within one day), and I think this would not have been the case had her name on her current documents matched the name on her BC (again thank you Korean mother-in-law...hehee...it's own story).

 

At the conclusion of the clarifying interview, she was told she would have passport in hand within two week (took 8 calendar days).  They even took her picture for the passport at the embassy (see attached).  I can not say how pleased I was with the quality and quick service of the US Embassy Seoul.  Hehehe..... The US birth certificate….. a month plus which included several phone calls to the incompetents…. (sans the last one). 

 

And for the record, the name on her US passport is the name she was given at birth, hehehe....the name she prefers.  Only a couple of letters different, but easier for Westerners to pronounce...hehe.

 

Thank you all for your comments.  She arrives Hawaii on May 20th, 2019.

[SFSgrad 4]

…. Her parents were both Korean citizens, even at the time of her birth in the US.

 

[SFSgrad 4]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 6:16 PM, Diane and Chris said:

Well, I certainly hope OP lets us know how it goes. This is an interesting situation. 

See my response.

 

[Ontarkie 13,911]

That is great news. I'm going to move this thread now to General Immigration as a better forum from K1 Processing. I know it could fit in US passport sub forum, but feel it is better suited in General for others.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Ontarkie

[Mike E 11,723]

3 minutes ago, SFSgrad said:

 

The facts:  My GF was born in the US, and had some childhood passports in her possession.  Her parents had filed for a US birth certificate at her birth, but it had since been lost.  She left the US at around the age of 2, and lived the next 49 years as a Korean citizen.  Sometime in her late teens, her parents took some sort of action to tell the US embassy in Korea that they would not longer be pursuing passports for her.

 

The Process:  Based on comments here, and logic I had her make an appointment at the US embassy in Seoul just to explore the chances of her getting her passport back.  I had her bring all documents that we had, which was basically just childhood passports.   Within a minute, the embassy rep had told her unequivocally that she WAS a US Citizen, and could have a passport within two weeks.

 

Well..... it did not quite happen that fast, however from the time all requirements were met, she did have it "in hand" in 8 calendar days!  (Keep in mind, Korea is one of the most efficient countries on the planet...and maybe this has worn off on the US embassy there....hehehe.

 

Congrats! I knew she was a USC!

 

3 minutes ago, SFSgrad said:

 

This lady is 51 years old? She looks more like 25!

 

On 10/27/2018 at 12:27 AM, Mike E said:

America is a nation of laws. The renunciation law was passed in 1952. 

 

OP's girl must be pretty old I guess.

 

Definitely born after 1952.😂

 

On a more serious note, since she was born abroad and apparently didn't get a CRBA, it is crucial she always have an unexpired USA passport.

 

 

[SFSgrad 4]

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

 

Congrats! I knew she was a USC!

 

 

This lady is 51 years old? She looks more like 25!

 

 

Definitely born after 1952.😂

 

On a more serious note, since she was born abroad and apparently didn't get a CRBA, it is crucial she always have an unexpired USA passport.

 

 

Yup....gonna be 52 in about a month..... A real beauty (inside and out and that picture does not do her justice...hehehe... passport mug shot!)

PS:  I grew up in Korea.....we speak a mixture of Korean and English...with each other...