Is it true? Can't refuse a visa for the same reason the second time?

[Love To Teach 161]

I read on here that a second application for a visa cannot be refused for the same reason? Is this true? If so, does this mean that USCIS can't use my husband's coerced false confession against him  again? We have another set of testimony papers by his kids, ex-wife, and neighbor that yes, he is divorced and has been divorced for 8 years, separated for 2 years before that. We are applying the second time for a CR-1. We will be married 3 years next month, have known each other for 7.5 years, and I just made my 10th visit to spend time with him.

[FlashLG 152]

That doesn't make any sense to me. For example, if a visa was denied due to lack of evidence of a credible relationship, applying again and submitting the same evidence would surely again result in a visa denial. Yet by your logic, they aren't allowed to deny again for the same reason? This sounds absurd.

[Ryan H 3,790]

27 minutes ago, Love To Teach said:

USCIS can't use my husband's coerced false confession against him  again?

 

USCIS has nothing and will have nothing to do with the actual decision on whether or not to issue your husband a visa, visa issuing decisions are the sole purview of CO's at an embassy or consulate.

 

Allow me to clarify what you have read:

• spouse visa applicant refused visa, stated reason is lack of bona fide relationship
• file sent back with recommendation to revoke
• USCIS receives file and reviews notes, they will see specific reasons why the visa was refused (the applicant will not have seen these)
• USCIS can either re-affirm their original approval or issue a Notice of Intent to Revoke (NOIR)
• If an NOIR is sent out, the petitioner will then have the opportunity to see the specific reasons why the visa was refused and will need to submit evidence refuting those reasons.  Additionally, a petitioner will have a deadline in which they will need to submit their rebuttal.
• When the rebuttal is received an reviewed, USCIS will either re-affirm their original approval and send the case back for another interview or they will revoke their original approval.
• If the case is re-affirmed and another visa interview takes place, a visa most certainly can be denied again for lack of bona fide relationship but it would require the CO to have new evidence as to why that conclusion was reached (i.e. a CO can not use the same underlying reasons as to why a relationship is not bon fide).

 

Now OP, since you filed a whole new petition, everything about the previous case is fair game and you have an extremely high hurdle to overcome.  If you can prove misconduct on the part of Embassy personnel then that is something you should have addressed by the appropriate authorities.

[SalishSea 16,746]

49 minutes ago, Love To Teach said:

I read on here that a second application for a visa cannot be refused for the same reason? Is this true? If so, does this mean that USCIS can't use my husband's coerced false confession against him  again? We have another set of testimony papers by his kids, ex-wife, and neighbor that yes, he is divorced and has been divorced for 8 years, separated for 2 years before that. We are applying the second time for a CR-1. We will be married 3 years next month, have known each other for 7.5 years, and I just made my 10th visit to spend time with him.

They can, and will, unless the evidence presented and totality of the situation has changed in your favor.

[Love To Teach 161]

On 10/6/2018 at 1:49 PM, Ryan H said:

 

USCIS has nothing and will have nothing to do with the actual decision on whether or not to issue your husband a visa, visa issuing decisions are the sole purview of CO's at an embassy or consulate.

 

Allow me to clarify what you have read:

• spouse visa applicant refused visa, stated reason is lack of bona fide relationship
• file sent back with recommendation to revoke
• USCIS receives file and reviews notes, they will see specific reasons why the visa was refused (the applicant will not have seen these)
• USCIS can either re-affirm their original approval or issue a Notice of Intent to Revoke (NOIR)
• If an NOIR is sent out, the petitioner will then have the opportunity to see the specific reasons why the visa was refused and will need to submit evidence refuting those reasons.  Additionally, a petitioner will have a deadline in which they will need to submit their rebuttal.
• When the rebuttal is received an reviewed, USCIS will either re-affirm their original approval and send the case back for another interview or they will revoke their original approval.
• If the case is re-affirmed and another visa interview takes place, a visa most certainly can be denied again for lack of bona fide relationship but it would require the CO to have new evidence as to why that conclusion was reached (i.e. a CO can not use the same underlying reasons as to why a relationship is not bon fide).

 

Now OP, since you filed a whole new petition, everything about the previous case is fair game and you have an extremely high hurdle to overcome.  If you can prove misconduct on the part of Embassy personnel then that is something you should have addressed by the appropriate authorities.

We appealed, provided proof he was divorced, but they said too bad, he signed a paper saying he was married. Even his ex and kids testified that he is indeed divorced. We refiled, got additional testimony, filed a complaint about the behavior of the CO at the embassy. The denial said they don't know why we didn't file a formal complaint then. Are they stupid? We wanted a second interview. Do they think we are gonna file a complaint at that point. BUT when refused, we did file the complaint.

 

But how do you prove it happened? They purposely do not film or record interviews because then it would be obvious how they treat people. All they had to do was be reasonable....why would my husband "willingly" write a statement that he is still married when he had all his divorce papers right there in the "terror" room? Reasonable answer: Nobody would unless they were terrorized to the point of blanking out. He still thinks they could accuse him of being a terrorist and hurt his family. And why not? They have that power. It's insane. We aren't giving up, no matter what happens.

 

IF he gets another interview in Pakistan, his ex, kids, and neighbor will be at the embassy for that interview. It's astounding that they refuse to accept the obvious.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Love To Teach

[Ontarkie 13,904]

Testimony from his ex, the kids, and neighbours means nothing. He needs something from the courts that will prove he is divorce. What ever papers he had at first are questionable, so get something from the courts that is clear with some sort of official stamp or seal.

 

I don't think replying is going to help. You need a lawyer before doing anything else.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Ontarkie

[Love To Teach 161]

He HAD and HAS the appropriate LEGAL divorce papers. They knew it. They counted on terrorizing him into a false confession because he is a quiet civilized guy....sad thing is, it worked. They scared him to death. He has had health problems as a result of that interview. Every time I talk to him about it, he gets physically ill. This is an educated man who works three jobs and has put his kids through college. Thank God he is now living and working in Dubai, away from that place. He was totally shocked at how they treated him and accused him of lying, while screaming Islamic prayers at him, getting in his face, threatening him, etc. It was totally against their rules of conduct. However, when you file a complaint, they just send an acknowledgement of it. We are going to see this through until the bitter end. There are some thing you have to stand up for, and this is one. Other people have had their papers literally thrown in their faces, threatened with hanging, intentionally harassed, etc. It's enough of that #######. You have to stand up to the bullies.

 

PS--It's a sad day when sworn testimony before a high court judge is not seen as "evidence."

Edited October 6, 2018 by Love To Teach

[SalishSea 16,746]

1 minute ago, Love To Teach said:

He HAD and HAS the appropriate LEGAL divorce papers. They knew it. They counted on terrorizing him into a false confession because he is a quiet civilized guy....sad thing is, it worked. They scared him to death. He has had health problems as a result of that interview. Every time I talk to him about it, he gets physically ill. This is an educated man who works three jobs and has put his kids through college. Thank God he is now living and working in Dubai, away from that place. He was totally shocked at how they treated him and accused him of lying, while screaming Islamic prayers at him, getting in his face, threatening him, etc. It was totally against their rules of conduct. However, when you file a complaint, they just send an acknowledgement of it. We are going to see this through until the bitter end. There are some thing you have to stand up for, and this is one. Other people have had their papers literally thrown in their faces, threatened with hanging, intentionally harassed, etc. It's enough of that #######. You have to stand up to the bullies.

Did the official dates line up though?  Was the date on the final decree of dissolution before your marriage, and by how much?   Do you have an immigration attorney?  Are you now trying to go through the Dubai embassy?

[Love To Teach 161]

His ex asked for a divorce in 2008, he continued to live there (but not as husband and wife if you know what I mean) until they got divorced in 2010, as he was hoping she would change her mind. The ironic thing is that she is the one who wanted a divorce as she did not love him anymore. We got married in 2015. We will be married 3 years this month. They accused us of paying for our papers. Of course, he denied that. We have an immigration attorney in Pakistan and in the US. He actually asked to go through the Pak embassy, which I think is kind of crazy. BUT his lawyer will come with him, his ex, and kids will probably go the embassy too, even if they can't go in. Ill be there too. This is just insanity. I mean, what the heck do you have to do to prove we are a real couple? They used tactics on him that are used on prisoners and terrorists to scare him into writing a false confession. He actually went blank because of all the abuse and screaming. I have heard from others that have endured the same thing. It's just wrong in every way.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Love To Teach

[SalishSea 16,746]

2 minutes ago, Love To Teach said:

His ex asked for a divorce in 2008, he continued to live there (but apart) until they got divorced in 2010, as he was hoping she would change her mind. The ironic thing is that she is the one who wanted a divorce as she did not love him anymore. We got married in 2015. We will be married 3 years this month. They accused us of paying for our papers. Of course, he denied that. We have an immigration attorney in Pakistan and in the US. He actually asked to go through the Pak embassy, which I think is kind of crazy. BUT his lawyer will come with him, his ex, and kids will probably go the embassy too, even if they can't go in. Ill be there too. This is just insanity. I mean, what the heck do you have to do to prove we are a real couple? They used tactics on him that are used on prisoners and terrorists to scare him into writing a false confession. He actually went blank because of all the abuse and screaming. I have heard from others that have endured the same thing. It's just wrong in every way.

The kids and ex will definitely not be allowed into the embassy.  

 

They accused you of paying for what papers, a marriage certificate?  In terms of the bona fides......have you lived together?  Has he been to the US?  Do you have commingled finances or other evidence?  

 

If you would be willing to move to live with him, that might really strengthen your case.

[Love To Teach 161]

They just pointed at all of our papers, which was 6 pounds, and snarled, "Who did you pay for these?" He kept protesting that he was divorced and we didn't pay for our papers. He can't come to the US from Pakistan...they never give travel visas. However, he is a travel agent and has traveled all over the world. I can't add him to my bank account (they say) because he doesn't have a SSN. He lived in Serbia. We have a bank account there. I've made 10 trips, spent tons of money. We help each other with some bills. 

 

Our second application (Aug. 7, 2018) weighed 13 pounds, so yes, we have a bunch of evidence." The irony of the interview is just crazy. He's the calmest guy I have known. He doesn't get mad or upset like I can. He hasn't lied and is very calm. He deals with pressure much better than me. That's one reason he fell for their tactics. They were nice to him at first. Then when they took him into the "torture room" they started in on him. Their first words were, "We know how to deal with people LIKE YOU!" He had no idea what that meant or where it was going. Then they proceeded to berate him, scream Islamic prayers at him (which apparently is a big insult as he takes his religion so seriously), accuse him of being married to his first wife still, and on and on until they broke him down. He said it was like being in an altered state (my words) and that all he could think of was writing what was dictated to him to escape that room. He actually feels they could set him up as being a terrorist, especially since he has traveled.  When I thought about it, I don't blame him. He lives in a police state with cops on every corner. They could easily frame him for something, even though he has never even gotten a traffic ticket.

 

I can't move away because of several things. I'm 67 and really slowing down. He's in his 50's, but he has developed several health problems as a result of that interview. That's what is so crazy. Why would we lie? I need to keep working for the health insurance, I have an elderly dog that can't travel and a brother who has advanced MD that needs help. I need the money to pay bills plus I love my job.  I have lots of health issues, one being I will have to have major ear surgery within the next year. I have to have my ear worked on/surgery every 2 months by a specialist because I have a hole in my ear canal. Even my doctor says I need to stay where I am for my health issues and to be near my specialists. I can't imagine having to give up my good health insurance and starting over. We have learned to take it one day at a time. I have no expectations any more because it's too painful.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Love To Teach

[SalishSea 16,746]

7 minutes ago, Love To Teach said:

They just pointed at all of our papers, which was 6 pounds, and snarled, "Who did you pay for these?" He kept protesting that he was divorced and we didn't pay for our papers. He can't come to the US from Pakistan...they never give travel visas. However, he is a travel agent and has traveled all over the world. I can't add him to my bank account (they say) because he doesn't have a SSN. He lived in Serbia. We have a bank account there. I've made 10 trips, spent tons of money. We help each other with some bills. 

 

Our second application (Aug. 7, 2018) weighed 13 pounds, so yes, we have a bunch of evidence.

 

I can't move away because of several things. I'm 67 and really slowing down. He's in his 50's, but he has developed several health problems as a result of that interview. That's what is so crazy. Why would we lie? I need to keep working for the health insurance, I have an elderly dog that can't travel and a brother who has advanced MD that needs help. I need the money to pay bills plus I love my job.  I have lots of health issues, one being I will have to have major ear surgery within the next year. I have to have my ear worked on/surgery every 2 months by a specialist because I have a hole in my ear canal. Even my doctor says I need to stay where I am for my health issues and to be near my specialists. I can't imagine having to give up my good health insurance and starting over. We have learned to take it one day at a time. I have no expectations any more because it's too painful.

I am so sorry to hear how painful this has been......

 

Do you think the age difference may be part of the problem?  Also, if he does move here, what will be your plan for his eventual health care needs, since he won't be eligible for medicare when you will?

[Love To Teach 161]

I forgot to add, I've been divorced 4 times, which they also honed in on. The first two I was a kid, then married 21 years to a guy who fell out of love. Then I brought a Moroccan over here that proved to be abusive. So I know that played into it also. That's why I wouldn't even meet him in person for almost 2 years while I checked him out. They screamed at him at the interview, "She's been married 5 times!!!" He said that was no problem for him. They are living 500 years behind the times. They told him he was a Muslim and was still married to his first wife, while he protested. I thought our ages would actually help us since we aren't kids. But they just decide what they want to do before the person even gets there. I have heard SO many horror stories about this embassy. It makes you wonder JUST WHAT would be enough for them? 20 years together? 20 trips? It's crazy. So many people get their visas with felony arrests, are in prison, have no money to support the person, and on and on.

 

Yeah, it's been hell on both of us. I will keep working as long as I can, and he can be on my health insurance if necessary. However, now he is a manager of customer service at  a Marriott Hotel here in Dubai (I'm visiting over here right now...my tenth trip.). So I know he could get a job doing that in the USA, but he's also managed a KFC in London, been a travel agent, and owns and manages 2 businesses. He's a hard worker and a smart guy. I have no doubt he could get a job in the US and have health insurance that way. Plus, he would take any job if need be, as he is not a lazy guy.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Love To Teach

[Boiler 43,397]

I forget where you got to, did you get a NOIR and refute?

[TNJ17 1,329]

No there is no such thing. They can refuse based on the same thing as many times as they want. If you didn’t fix what gave you a denial the first time around you will get a denial based on the same thing this time around.