Having kids only means you have sex.

[Boiler 43,431]

I can think of quite a few posts on here where a child was involved and it seemed the father was unknown.

 

So that would suggest to me that  there was not much of a relationship.

 

Or a very bad memory.

[Ben&Zian 4,397]

1 minute ago, NuestraUnion said:

Don't know if you remember it but i remember a guy who brought over his wife and came on the board to find out if he could bring over his baby mama also. Imagine if that was actually allowed. 😳

 

 Think I remember someone asking something similar to that a year ago or so.

[Unlockable 7,306]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

I can think of quite a few posts on here where a child was involved and it seemed the father was unknown.

 

So that would suggest to me that  there was not much of a relationship.

Exactly!

[Umka36 781]

36 minutes ago, Ben&Zian said:

People have literally asked on here basically about "should we get pregnant to boost our chances of approval" as in using a kid for immigration benefits. That's in part where it came from too and why it shouldn't be considered at all. 

 

As was mentioned, people hook up, one time sex can get someone pregnant. Doesn't have to be a "mutual" we want to have kids plan. If it was strong evidence, everyone would be having kids for no reason other than to try to strengthen their cases for approvals. 

 

And it doesn't require two people for 18 some years to help co-raise a child. Single parents do it all the time with no assistance or help from the other partner whether mother/father. A lot don't even ask for financial assistance and a lot don't even discuss the other parent to the kid. So it isn't just a "mutual process" as you claim. Maybe in some magical fairy tale world of decent people  with unicorns and sparkles it is; but in the real world, it's far from it.

Folks have even asked if getting pregnant would expedite the process. Having a child is just one item that can be used to prove a bonafide relationship. Whether it is strong or not, I cannot say. We used it for my wife's ROC stage of the process as one of the many documents to prove bonifide relationship.

 

I know of a few couple's my wife has befriended that are immigrant spouses, and while they have a child together they don't communicate or do things with each other. It's interesting for me to meet them as I never see their husbands.

[Springrain22 427]

The fact that someone is having kids does not prove anything at all. Why would it? You won't believe how many people cheated the system by having kids and not having any love / relationship / family.

[geowrian 22,335]

I would also note that there are certainly numerous cases of AOS (and less common ROC) denials for married couples with children.

[SalishSea 16,770]

45 minutes ago, Ben&Zian said:

People have literally asked on here basically about "should we get pregnant to boost our chances of approval" as in using a kid for immigration benefits. That's in part where it came from too and why it shouldn't be considered at all. 

As evidenced by the fact that pregnancy does not = expedite.

[cyclone27 710]

Having a child is proof for some of a bonifide relationship when the totality of the case is examined. Otherwise it would not be listed as evidence on the I751 instructions.

 

 

[Michelle M 133]

1 hour ago, Tilia said:

No, no it doesn't.

 

I have seen this idea for a while now, and it is WRONG. I don't know where it comes from, but it seems to have made quite a career on this site.

 

In case people are not aware, having kids means co-parenting for at least 18 years with someone. It is very, very much a sign of good faith, especially since in case of separation, shared custody is almost impossible between people from two counties.

 

Compare this to the "strong evidence", aka common bank account. Seriously? All it takes for me to boot my husband off of mine is a call. Same for insurances, credit cards, and so on. Even a house owned in common is way, way easier to figure out than custody issues.

 

Lastly, I have spoken to two USCIS officers, one at my AOS interview and the other at my N-400 interview. They both said having children is the STRONGEST evidence a couple can bring.

 

Just wanted to get this off my chest, lol.

Thank God someone said it, that phrase annoys and pisses me off.

[Boiler 43,431]

It would be highly discriminatory against people who can not have children.

[carmel34 3,529]

The whole issue of evidence to show a "bona fide relationship" is really the point of this thread.  Many have expressed their opinion about different kinds of evidence like financial co-mingling, and getting pregnant/having a baby, etc.  Based on all the research I have done on this subject, it seems like the people who make these judgments, mostly officers in embassies and consulates abroad, use their policy manuals to arrive at a decision.  They consider the required documents and others submitted and try to determine if there are any reasons to think that the relationship might be fraudulent.  That seems to be a big concern that they have.  In addition to satisfying the minimum requirements, time spent together and evidence to show this appears to be the number one thing that couples can do to avoid being denied a visa.  Everything else is secondary to that and may or may not influence the decision of the officer.  I have read many threads on things like photos, chat logs, joint bank accounts, other evidence of financial co-mingling, and so forth.  And now this one on pregnancy/babies.  All of these could be submitted in a fraudulent case.  Yes, it is the "'totality of the evidence" considered that will determine the outcome, and not one thing alone, but time spent together is key from everything I have read.  A quick pregnancy in a short relationship could be viewed as a reg flag that might negatively affect the outcome of a visa interview, depending on the country and its culture.  I don't think posters here mean any disrespect for those who choose to have a baby in a real, genuine relationship, but because it will not be the determining factor in a visa decision, they are trying to downplay it.  For some people, having a baby is a big deal and shows commitment in a relationship, but for others, it just shows that unprotected hetero sex took place.   Just my two cents.

[Rocko20 159]

Having kids doesn't prove anything, only proves you had sex without protection. For example, illegal immigrants (from many countries) have kids every year in America just for birthright citizenship granted to them under the constitution.

 

And another example, the out of wedlock child birthrate for my community (African American community) is currently at 72%+. That means 72% of black kids are born to parents who are not even married, many of which with fathers who won't be actively involved in the lives of their kids or who have other babies from other mothers.

 

But the point is there are people waiting in the visa line who can't have children, refuse to have children, or are waiting later to have children and you don't get to cut them or expedite your visa process just because you have children.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Rocko20

[AshMarty 359]

Does having a child make a marriage real? Do joint credit cards make a marriage real?

 

Are you raising your child in a "Bona Fide" relationship is the question the officers are trying to answer.

 

Yes, having a child is often a traditional step in a lot of marriages, but it is also very common outside of "bona fide" relationships as well. Also NOT having a child is common in a lot of marriages (and becoming even more common in today's American culture). 

 

A spousal relationship is truly multifaceted. Just a child or just a joint credit card doesn't mean much for a relationship on its on, but if you put a child, pictures as a family with your spouse and you raising a child together, joint bank statements, pictures of vacations together, etc....... then you start to build proof of a relationship with your spouse.  

 

Honestly, if you are in a true relationship, the proof starts to build itself and it is just a matter of gathering it for an interview. 

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by AshMarty

[Jaquelly 1,647]

So, by that logic, are people with kids more deserving of a visa?

 

 

Absolutely not.

[dawning 212]

I also find it a little puzzling how insistent some posters on here are that children in common are not any kind of evidence.  While obviously everyone makes decisions differently, anyone wanting to have a child and a relationship to that child should probably think carefully about the who the other parent will be, as shared custody with someone from a different values set can be very difficult. 

 

I don't buy the idea that to accept children as evidence from couples that are able and want to have children is discrimination against those who aren't able or don't want to.  Having both parties' names on the deed to the house is good evidence, probably better than just a rental agreement which is more temporary and easier to modify, but that's not discrimination against those who can't afford a house or prefer to rent.

 

I also find it interesting that OP has had an answer from two USCIS officers that children are excellent evidence, and yet posters here continue to insist they aren't.  Were the officers lying?