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Canadian ‘First Man’ actor defends omitting American flag planting on moon: Achievement ‘transcended countries and borders’

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On 9/3/2018 at 4:31 PM, Randyandyuni said:

Would you be ok with a similar omission of a particular fact of history if it affected your native country and your national pride of it's accomplishments if the person telling the story consciously chose to ignore it?

You mean how Hollywood has often had a habit of omitting or even completely changing other countries part in great world events in favour of U.S. glory?

 

U-571

Saving Private Ryan

Pearl Harbour

August 2000: We start e-mailing. I'm in Bosnia, she's in Florida

October 29th 2000: She sends me e-mail asking if I would marry her

October 29th 2000(5 seconds later): I say yes

November 2000: She sends me tickets to Orlando for when I get back

December 6th 2000: Return from Bos

December 11th 2000: Fly to Orlando, she meets me at airport

December 22nd 2000: I fly back to UK

January 3rd 2001: She flies to UK (Good times)

Mid February 2001: Pregnancy test Positive

Mid February 2001: She flies back to US

March 2001: Miscarriage, I fly to US on first flight I can get

May 2001: I leave US before my 90 days are up

June 2001: I fly back to US, stopped at airport for questioning as I had only just left

September 2001: Pregnancy test Positive again

September 2001: She falls sick, I make decision to stay to look after her as I am afraid I may have problems getting back in.

April 16th 2002: Our son is born, we start getting stuff together for his passport

March 6th 2003: We leave US for UK as family

Early April 2003: Family troubles make her return to US, I ask Embassy in London about possibilities of returning to US

April 16th 2003: London Embassy informs me that I will be banned from the Visa Waiver Program for 10 years, my little boys first birthday

June 13th 2006: I-129f sent

August 11th 2006: NOA1 Recieved

After our relationship breaks down she admits to me that she had never bothered to start the application process

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4 minutes ago, MacUK said:

If we're going to get all worked up about representing all the great minds behind the lunar mission then surely the flag they should have sent up would be a swastika?

could as easily been British then, Sir Isaac don't you know and that pesky gravity thingy

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MacUK said:

You mean how Hollywood has often had a habit of omitting or even completely changing other countries part in great world events in favour of U.S. glory?

 

U-571

Saving Private Ryan

Pearl Harbour

I get U-571

 

not sure on the other 2

 

 

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1 minute ago, Randyandyuni said:

could as easily been British then, Sir Isaac don't you know and that pesky gravity thingy

Nah, at that time we were just getting away from the embarrassment and hassles that came from wantonly planting our flag all over this planet, we couldn't be bothered with another one.

 

I was referring more to all the NASA scientists who had formerly been Nazis scientists

August 2000: We start e-mailing. I'm in Bosnia, she's in Florida

October 29th 2000: She sends me e-mail asking if I would marry her

October 29th 2000(5 seconds later): I say yes

November 2000: She sends me tickets to Orlando for when I get back

December 6th 2000: Return from Bos

December 11th 2000: Fly to Orlando, she meets me at airport

December 22nd 2000: I fly back to UK

January 3rd 2001: She flies to UK (Good times)

Mid February 2001: Pregnancy test Positive

Mid February 2001: She flies back to US

March 2001: Miscarriage, I fly to US on first flight I can get

May 2001: I leave US before my 90 days are up

June 2001: I fly back to US, stopped at airport for questioning as I had only just left

September 2001: Pregnancy test Positive again

September 2001: She falls sick, I make decision to stay to look after her as I am afraid I may have problems getting back in.

April 16th 2002: Our son is born, we start getting stuff together for his passport

March 6th 2003: We leave US for UK as family

Early April 2003: Family troubles make her return to US, I ask Embassy in London about possibilities of returning to US

April 16th 2003: London Embassy informs me that I will be banned from the Visa Waiver Program for 10 years, my little boys first birthday

June 13th 2006: I-129f sent

August 11th 2006: NOA1 Recieved

After our relationship breaks down she admits to me that she had never bothered to start the application process

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Just now, MacUK said:

Nah, at that time we were just getting away from the embarrassment and hassles that came from wantonly planting our flag all over this planet, we couldn't be bothered with another one.

 

I was referring more to all the NASA scientists who had formerly been Nazis scientists

I knew what you were referring too.

 

You do realize that when the American flag was planted the United States was signatories to the UN proclamation stating no country could own the moon, it was symbolic of the effort

 

 

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Just now, Randyandyuni said:

I get U-571

 

not sure on the other 2

Other than a couple of lines of dialogue in Saving Private Ryan the contributions of 100s of thousands of soldiers from the UK, Canada and all over the Commonwealth is completely ignored.

 

The Pearl Harbour one is a bit more obscure, the short section where the hero volunteers to fly with the RAF.

It implied that the USAAF was regularly sending volunteer pilots to the UK to help with the war effort. While there were many brave U.S. pilots who volunteered for the RAF it wasn't a USAAF thing, it was young U.S. civilians who just wanted to help defeat Germany.

August 2000: We start e-mailing. I'm in Bosnia, she's in Florida

October 29th 2000: She sends me e-mail asking if I would marry her

October 29th 2000(5 seconds later): I say yes

November 2000: She sends me tickets to Orlando for when I get back

December 6th 2000: Return from Bos

December 11th 2000: Fly to Orlando, she meets me at airport

December 22nd 2000: I fly back to UK

January 3rd 2001: She flies to UK (Good times)

Mid February 2001: Pregnancy test Positive

Mid February 2001: She flies back to US

March 2001: Miscarriage, I fly to US on first flight I can get

May 2001: I leave US before my 90 days are up

June 2001: I fly back to US, stopped at airport for questioning as I had only just left

September 2001: Pregnancy test Positive again

September 2001: She falls sick, I make decision to stay to look after her as I am afraid I may have problems getting back in.

April 16th 2002: Our son is born, we start getting stuff together for his passport

March 6th 2003: We leave US for UK as family

Early April 2003: Family troubles make her return to US, I ask Embassy in London about possibilities of returning to US

April 16th 2003: London Embassy informs me that I will be banned from the Visa Waiver Program for 10 years, my little boys first birthday

June 13th 2006: I-129f sent

August 11th 2006: NOA1 Recieved

After our relationship breaks down she admits to me that she had never bothered to start the application process

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On 8/31/2018 at 2:59 AM, jg121783 said:

Its funny a majority of world changing events in the last 200+ years came from one country. 

Such as?

August 2000: We start e-mailing. I'm in Bosnia, she's in Florida

October 29th 2000: She sends me e-mail asking if I would marry her

October 29th 2000(5 seconds later): I say yes

November 2000: She sends me tickets to Orlando for when I get back

December 6th 2000: Return from Bos

December 11th 2000: Fly to Orlando, she meets me at airport

December 22nd 2000: I fly back to UK

January 3rd 2001: She flies to UK (Good times)

Mid February 2001: Pregnancy test Positive

Mid February 2001: She flies back to US

March 2001: Miscarriage, I fly to US on first flight I can get

May 2001: I leave US before my 90 days are up

June 2001: I fly back to US, stopped at airport for questioning as I had only just left

September 2001: Pregnancy test Positive again

September 2001: She falls sick, I make decision to stay to look after her as I am afraid I may have problems getting back in.

April 16th 2002: Our son is born, we start getting stuff together for his passport

March 6th 2003: We leave US for UK as family

Early April 2003: Family troubles make her return to US, I ask Embassy in London about possibilities of returning to US

April 16th 2003: London Embassy informs me that I will be banned from the Visa Waiver Program for 10 years, my little boys first birthday

June 13th 2006: I-129f sent

August 11th 2006: NOA1 Recieved

After our relationship breaks down she admits to me that she had never bothered to start the application process

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1 minute ago, MacUK said:

Other than a couple of lines of dialogue in Saving Private Ryan the contributions of 100s of thousands of soldiers from the UK, Canada and all over the Commonwealth is completely ignored.

 

The Pearl Harbour one is a bit more obscure, the short section where the hero volunteers to fly with the RAF.

It implied that the USAAF was regularly sending volunteer pilots to the UK to help with the war effort. While there were many brave U.S. pilots who volunteered for the RAF it wasn't a USAAF thing, it was young U.S. civilians who just wanted to help defeat Germany.

Saving Private Ryan was the actual story of a group of Army Rangers actually seeking out a Private Ryan because his siblings were all killed within days of each other, it was done as a humanitarian effort conducted by the war office, it was a certain microcosm of the war, not a movie about the war in general.

I'll take your word on the RAF volunteers, although in the flying tigers many were actual US Military pilots who were "wink" "wink" discharged from the military to allow them to volunteer to gain combat expertise

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

Saving Private Ryan was the actual story of a group of Army Rangers actually seeking out a Private Ryan because his siblings were all killed within days of each other, it was done as a humanitarian effort conducted by the war office, it was a certain microcosm of the war, not a movie about the war in general.

I'll take your word on the RAF volunteers, although in the flying tigers many were actual US Military pilots who were "wink" "wink" discharged from the military to allow them to volunteer to gain combat expertise

You know Saving Private Ryan wasn't a true story right?

It was based loosely on the story of the four Niland brothers who served in WWII. After D-Day one of the brothers tried to visit one of the others only to find out he had been killed and it was thought that all three of his brothers were dead. He was sent home straight away. 

There was no team of Rangers sent out to look for him.

After the war it was found out that the third brother who was thought to be dead was actually still alive and had been a prisoner of the Japanese.

 

So Saving Private Ryan was a fictional story set during a historic event that omitted the contributions of other countries. Even down to the small detail of the landing craft during the D-Day landings. The movie had it as an all American thing when actually the landing craft were crewed by Royal Navy personnel.

August 2000: We start e-mailing. I'm in Bosnia, she's in Florida

October 29th 2000: She sends me e-mail asking if I would marry her

October 29th 2000(5 seconds later): I say yes

November 2000: She sends me tickets to Orlando for when I get back

December 6th 2000: Return from Bos

December 11th 2000: Fly to Orlando, she meets me at airport

December 22nd 2000: I fly back to UK

January 3rd 2001: She flies to UK (Good times)

Mid February 2001: Pregnancy test Positive

Mid February 2001: She flies back to US

March 2001: Miscarriage, I fly to US on first flight I can get

May 2001: I leave US before my 90 days are up

June 2001: I fly back to US, stopped at airport for questioning as I had only just left

September 2001: Pregnancy test Positive again

September 2001: She falls sick, I make decision to stay to look after her as I am afraid I may have problems getting back in.

April 16th 2002: Our son is born, we start getting stuff together for his passport

March 6th 2003: We leave US for UK as family

Early April 2003: Family troubles make her return to US, I ask Embassy in London about possibilities of returning to US

April 16th 2003: London Embassy informs me that I will be banned from the Visa Waiver Program for 10 years, my little boys first birthday

June 13th 2006: I-129f sent

August 11th 2006: NOA1 Recieved

After our relationship breaks down she admits to me that she had never bothered to start the application process

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7 minutes ago, MacUK said:

You know Saving Private Ryan wasn't a true story right?

It was based loosely on the story of the four Niland brothers who served in WWII. After D-Day one of the brothers tried to visit one of the others only to find out he had been killed and it was thought that all three of his brothers were dead. He was sent home straight away. 

There was no team of Rangers sent out to look for him.

After the war it was found out that the third brother who was thought to be dead was actually still alive and had been a prisoner of the Japanese.

 

So Saving Private Ryan was a fictional story set during a historic event that omitted the contributions of other countries. Even down to the small detail of the landing craft during the D-Day landings. The movie had it as an all American thing when actually the landing craft were crewed by Royal Navy personnel.

I knew it was historical fiction, I thought it closer to history .. my mistake (other than the 3 presumed dead brothers)

 

Ok First Man is historical fiction that purposely tries to hide American achievement through historical misrepresentation, got it  

 

I reread where you brought the movies into play, you are grieved that 100s of thousands of soldiers from the UK, Canada and all over the Commonwealth are ignored, I don't see you defending the omission of troops from the Free Poles, non-Vichy French, and any other non commonwealth countries, a little nationalism at play?

 

 

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1 hour ago, MacUK said:

If we're going to get all worked up about representing all the great minds behind the lunar mission then surely the flag they should have sent up would be a swastika?

I was referring to the American taxpayers who funded the program...

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1 hour ago, Satisfied said:

I’m asking because all my younger learning years, CC was touted as the explorer who discovered America. But now I have seen at least three different cartoons expressly telling kids that it is a fable.  In 20 years, two different generations of kids will believe CC had nothing to do with it.  And honestly, I am not sure which story is true now.  

Point being, with just a few cartoons, history can be erased/changed.  Ditto the holocaust.  Or the lunar landing.

It's very easy to determine the answer even if the answer is a complicated one. But with study I think what you learned as young can easily be cleared up. What you learned was factually incorrect. Like most kids I learned the atypical little ditty about Columbus, but actual book-learning provided greater clarification about the truth of the situation.

 

CC's journey was a significant one for his people, to the people who were already present there, and to history, however he was not the first to discover the Americas and there is excellent evidence out there of numerous individuals well before his time who did. I would say what Columbus should be credited with is making an impact on that stretch of the island he landed at, and furthering Spanish colonization and exploration. Cartoons don't convince kids in school who discovered the Americas. Hopefully the education they receive in school clarifies properly, real history, if they pay attention enough. Good propagandists during and somewhat after Columbus' time wanted to further 'accomplishments' within royal circles and around the globe of Spain's importance or 'dominance' on the subject. Much how the royal courts of England did the same thing. But really, the 'popularity' regarding the Columbus thing did not happen until rather very late in our history and pushing that 'idea' instead of historical facts did a disservice and further confusion. We cannot diminish his voyages as unimportant to history, but we should not ignore those who came before him and actually did the discovering (and it's fascinating stuff!). The reality is there were people living in the America's long before Columbus got here, and there were people who discovered those people long before Columbus did (who did not even make it to the mainland). The first person to set foot onto the landmass and populate it was the person to 'discover' it technically in my view.

 

During WWII millions of Americans did not know the real horrors going on regarding the Holocaust and the systematic slaughter of their European neighbors. The evidence eventually became clear. Despite that evidence there are still lots of horrible individuals that deny such a thing existed, just as many regimes deny the ethnic cleansing they do. There's plenty of people that deny anyone ever went to the moon, that the earth is hollow or flat, and that aliens are real contrary to actual evidence, science, and facts. History exists, archeology exists whether people believe it or not.

 

Historical fiction and biopics in Hollywood should never be taken as fact. There's many better ways to receive an education on facts. Like I said, art is art. There are a whole host of really riveting films out there that are 'historical', but they are almost all erroneous in some way. There's no reason why we can't enjoy them, but we should also educate ourselves on reality.

 

 

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1 hour ago, MacUK said:

You mean how Hollywood has often had a habit of omitting or even completely changing other countries part in great world events in favour of U.S. glory?

 

U-571

Saving Private Ryan

Pearl Harbour

Hey I can think of tons of history centric films that people love that make an absolute mess of history (a lot of them UK centric history ones that are ridiculous on facts!)... They can certainly be entertaining though, maybe even highlight or thought-provoke, but they shouldn't be taken at face value as fact.

 

I look to Shakespeare as one who was really good at writing historical 'fiction' as propaganda pieces, then am amazed at the dramatic license taken when they are made into films that are supposed to be reverting things back to 'historical accuracy (nope!).

Edited by yuna628

Our Journey Timeline  - Immigration and the Health Exchange Price of Love in the UK Thinking of Returning to UK?

 

First met: 12/31/04 - Engaged: 9/24/09
Filed I-129F: 10/4/14 - Packet received: 10/7/14
NOA 1 email + ARN assigned: 10/10/14 (hard copy 10/17/14)
Touched on website (fixed?): 12/9/14 - Poked USCIS: 4/1/15
NOA 2 email: 5/4/15 (hard copy 5/11/15)
Sent to NVC: 5/8/15 - NVC received + #'s assigned: 5/15/15 (estimated)
NVC sent: 5/19/15 - London received/ready: 5/26/15
Packet 3: 5/28/15 - Medical: 6/16/15
Poked London 7/1/15 - Packet 4: 7/2/15
Interview: 7/30/15 - Approved!
AP + Issued 8/3/15 - Visa in hand (depot): 8/6/15
POE: 8/27/15

Wedding: 9/30/15

Filed I-485, I-131, I-765: 11/7/15

Packet received: 11/9/15

NOA 1 txt/email: 11/15/15 - NOA 1 hardcopy: 11/19/15

Bio: 12/9/15

EAD + AP approved: 1/25/16 - EAD received: 2/1/16

RFE for USCIS inability to read vax instructions: 5/21/16 (no e-notification & not sent from local office!)

RFE response sent: 6/7/16 - RFE response received 6/9/16

AOS approved/card in production: 6/13/16  

NOA 2 hardcopy + card sent 6/17/16

Green Card received: 6/18/16

USCIS 120 day reminder notice: 2/22/18

Filed I-751: 5/2/18 - Packet received: 5/4/18

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39 minutes ago, Randyandyuni said:

I reread where you brought the movies into play, you are grieved that 100s of thousands of soldiers from the UK, Canada and all over the Commonwealth are ignored, I don't see you defending the omission of troops from the Free Poles, non-Vichy French, and any other non commonwealth countries, a little nationalism at play?

No nationalism at all, merely that I didn't know enough of the facts off hand to be able to list absolutely every single country that was involved in the defeat of Germany.

August 2000: We start e-mailing. I'm in Bosnia, she's in Florida

October 29th 2000: She sends me e-mail asking if I would marry her

October 29th 2000(5 seconds later): I say yes

November 2000: She sends me tickets to Orlando for when I get back

December 6th 2000: Return from Bos

December 11th 2000: Fly to Orlando, she meets me at airport

December 22nd 2000: I fly back to UK

January 3rd 2001: She flies to UK (Good times)

Mid February 2001: Pregnancy test Positive

Mid February 2001: She flies back to US

March 2001: Miscarriage, I fly to US on first flight I can get

May 2001: I leave US before my 90 days are up

June 2001: I fly back to US, stopped at airport for questioning as I had only just left

September 2001: Pregnancy test Positive again

September 2001: She falls sick, I make decision to stay to look after her as I am afraid I may have problems getting back in.

April 16th 2002: Our son is born, we start getting stuff together for his passport

March 6th 2003: We leave US for UK as family

Early April 2003: Family troubles make her return to US, I ask Embassy in London about possibilities of returning to US

April 16th 2003: London Embassy informs me that I will be banned from the Visa Waiver Program for 10 years, my little boys first birthday

June 13th 2006: I-129f sent

August 11th 2006: NOA1 Recieved

After our relationship breaks down she admits to me that she had never bothered to start the application process

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