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Abdullah T

Serious situation and need every advice possible please

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I think this was the wording that threw up the flags:

21 hours ago, Abdullah T said:

no i did not mention about this divorce because my lawyer said the US law doesn't recognize second marriages in the first place 

I have no idea who in the world would suggest that the US doesn't recognize a second (non-concurrent) marriage.

Timelines:

ROC:

Spoiler

7/27/20: Sent forms to Dallas lockbox, 7/30/20: Received by USCIS, 8/10 NOA1 electronic notification received, 8/1/ NOA1 hard copy received

AOS:

Spoiler

AOS (I-485 + I-131 + I-765):

9/25/17: sent forms to Chicago, 9/27/17: received by USCIS, 10/4/17: NOA1 electronic notification received, 10/10/17: NOA1 hard copy received. Social Security card being issued in married name (3rd attempt!)

10/14/17: Biometrics appointment notice received, 10/25/17: Biometrics

1/2/18: EAD + AP approved (no website update), 1/5/18: EAD + AP mailed, 1/8/18: EAD + AP approval notice hardcopies received, 1/10/18: EAD + AP received

9/5/18: Interview scheduled notice, 10/17/18: Interview

10/24/18: Green card produced notice, 10/25/18: Formal approval, 10/31/18: Green card received

K-1:

Spoiler

I-129F

12/1/16: sent, 12/14/16: NOA1 hard copy received, 3/10/17: RFE (IMB verification), 3/22/17: RFE response received

3/24/17: Approved! , 3/30/17: NOA2 hard copy received

 

NVC

4/6/2017: Received, 4/12/2017: Sent to Riyadh embassy, 4/16/2017: Case received at Riyadh embassy, 4/21/2017: Request case transfer to Manila, approved 4/24/2017

 

K-1

5/1/2017: Case received by Manila (1 week embassy transfer??? Lucky~)

7/13/2017: Interview: APPROVED!!!

7/19/2017: Visa in hand

8/15/2017: POE

 

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1 minute ago, SaRy said:

So just to make things clear:

 

1) First marriage ended with a divorce,

 

2) Second marriage (+ child) also ended with a divorce,

 

3) Third marriage is now with an American citizen.

However, you only declared your 1st marriage and divorce, but not your 2nd marriage with child and divorce.

He only has one previous marriage that ended in divorce and involved one child.  He used the word "second" instead of "previous" in his original post - that created all the confusion.  Additionally, he didn't declare the previous marriage on his immigration forms.

 

 

Click Spoiler for signature timeline.

 

3/10/2013 - Married

Green Card Process Summary
3/25/2013 - Submitted I-130's
01/13/2014 - Embassy Interview - Approved!
05/28/2014 - POE (U.S. Customs and Immigration Overseas Preclearance Facility - Abu Dhabi)
08/20/2014 - Green Card received.

Naturalization Process

01/20/2015 - Submitted N-400 for immediate naturalization under INA 319b.

02/10/2015 - Check cashed.

02/14/2015 - NOA

04/07/2015 - Case shipped to local field office.

04/08/2015 - Interview scheduled for July 6, 2015.

04/08/2015 - Wifey better be studying her butt off for the citizenship test!

07/08/2015 - Wifey was studying her butt off and passed the test easily. Oath ceremony completed on same day! We are done with our journey!

 

 

 

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Just now, jayjayj said:

He only has one previous marriage that ended in divorce and involved one child.  He used the word "second" instead of "previous" in his original post - that created all the confusion.  Additionally, he didn't declare the previous marriage on his immigration forms.

Oh, alright. I was very confused at the beginning...Thanks!

~~~

 

 

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6 hours ago, Abdullah T said:

 

yes

And the US citizen is your third marriage, right?

Facts are cheap...knowing how to use them is precious...
Understanding the big picture is priceless. Anonymous

Google Who is Pushbrk?

A Warning to Green Card Holders About Voting

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8 hours ago, Abdullah T said:

My apologies about the misunderstanding 

I didn’t list the previous marriage and my daughter on the forms 

 

8 hours ago, Boiler said:

Why not?

 

8 hours ago, Abdullah T said:

This is what my lawyer adviced me 

 

 

Out of curiosity---did your lawyer sign the application as well, or suddenly chose not to at the end, maybe telling you he "didn't need to"?

 

 

Applied for Naturalization based on 5-year Residency - 96 Days To Complete Citizenship!

July 14, 2017 (Day 00) -  Submitted N400 Application, filed online

July 21, 2017 (Day 07) -  NOA Receipt received in the mail

July 22, 2017 (Day 08) - Biometrics appointment scheduled online, letter mailed out

July 25, 2017 (Day 11) - Biometrics PDF posted online

July 28, 2017 (Day 14) - Biometrics letter received in the mail, appointment for 08/08/17

Aug 08, 2017 (Day 24) - Biometrics (fingerprinting) completed

Aug 14, 2017 (Day 30) - Online EGOV status shows "Interview Scheduled, will mail appointment letter"

Aug 16, 2017 (Day 32) - Online MYUSCIS status shows "Interview Scheduled, read the letter we mailed you..."

Aug 17, 2017 (Day 33) - Interview Appointment Letter PDF posted online---GOT AN INTERVIEW DATE!!!

Aug 21, 2017 (Day 37) - Interview Appointment Letter received in the mail, appointment for 09/27/17

Sep. 27, 2017 (Day 74) - Naturalization Interview--- read my experience here

Sep. 27, 2017 (Day 74) - Online MYUSCIS status shows "Oath Ceremony Notice mailed"

Sep. 28, 2017 (Day 75) - Oath Ceremony Letter PDF posted online--Ceremony for 10/19/17

Oct. 02, 2017 (Day 79) -  Oath Ceremony Letter received in the mail

Oct. 19, 2017 (Day 96) -  Oath Ceremony-- read my experience here

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Going through said:

 

Out of curiosity---did your lawyer sign the application as well, or suddenly chose not to at the end, maybe telling you he "didn't need to"?

The I-130 is not an "application" for anything.  It is a petition for alien relative.

Facts are cheap...knowing how to use them is precious...
Understanding the big picture is priceless. Anonymous

Google Who is Pushbrk?

A Warning to Green Card Holders About Voting

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/606646-a-warning-to-green-card-holders-about-voting/

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1 minute ago, pushbrk said:

The I-130 is not an "application" for anything.  It is a petition for alien relative.

I use the word "application" and "petition" interchangeably since they are synonyms....sue me :P 

 

 

Applied for Naturalization based on 5-year Residency - 96 Days To Complete Citizenship!

July 14, 2017 (Day 00) -  Submitted N400 Application, filed online

July 21, 2017 (Day 07) -  NOA Receipt received in the mail

July 22, 2017 (Day 08) - Biometrics appointment scheduled online, letter mailed out

July 25, 2017 (Day 11) - Biometrics PDF posted online

July 28, 2017 (Day 14) - Biometrics letter received in the mail, appointment for 08/08/17

Aug 08, 2017 (Day 24) - Biometrics (fingerprinting) completed

Aug 14, 2017 (Day 30) - Online EGOV status shows "Interview Scheduled, will mail appointment letter"

Aug 16, 2017 (Day 32) - Online MYUSCIS status shows "Interview Scheduled, read the letter we mailed you..."

Aug 17, 2017 (Day 33) - Interview Appointment Letter PDF posted online---GOT AN INTERVIEW DATE!!!

Aug 21, 2017 (Day 37) - Interview Appointment Letter received in the mail, appointment for 09/27/17

Sep. 27, 2017 (Day 74) - Naturalization Interview--- read my experience here

Sep. 27, 2017 (Day 74) - Online MYUSCIS status shows "Oath Ceremony Notice mailed"

Sep. 28, 2017 (Day 75) - Oath Ceremony Letter PDF posted online--Ceremony for 10/19/17

Oct. 02, 2017 (Day 79) -  Oath Ceremony Letter received in the mail

Oct. 19, 2017 (Day 96) -  Oath Ceremony-- read my experience here

 

 

 

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Just now, Going through said:

I use the word "application" and "petition" interchangeably since they are synonyms....sue me :P 

 

 

They are not synonyms.  In this context it is important for people to know understand the difference between a petition and an application.  A lawyer would not sign a visa application, but would sign a petition or an application to adjust status, if applicable.

Facts are cheap...knowing how to use them is precious...
Understanding the big picture is priceless. Anonymous

Google Who is Pushbrk?

A Warning to Green Card Holders About Voting

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/606646-a-warning-to-green-card-holders-about-voting/

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1 minute ago, pushbrk said:

They are not synonyms.  In this context it is important for people to know understand the difference between a petition and an application.  A lawyer would not sign a visa application, but would sign a petition or an application to adjust status, if applicable.

Yeah...they are synonyms, but I hate quoting dictionaries and the thesaurus...you can google it though if interested.

 

I do see what you are saying, however In this context of the thread I doubt the OP is more concerned over my use of a synonym rather than their present situation.

 

Regardless of the word used, the question still stands, and I'm curious if the lawyer signed the form.  Or is "form" not an acceptable word to you, either?

Applied for Naturalization based on 5-year Residency - 96 Days To Complete Citizenship!

July 14, 2017 (Day 00) -  Submitted N400 Application, filed online

July 21, 2017 (Day 07) -  NOA Receipt received in the mail

July 22, 2017 (Day 08) - Biometrics appointment scheduled online, letter mailed out

July 25, 2017 (Day 11) - Biometrics PDF posted online

July 28, 2017 (Day 14) - Biometrics letter received in the mail, appointment for 08/08/17

Aug 08, 2017 (Day 24) - Biometrics (fingerprinting) completed

Aug 14, 2017 (Day 30) - Online EGOV status shows "Interview Scheduled, will mail appointment letter"

Aug 16, 2017 (Day 32) - Online MYUSCIS status shows "Interview Scheduled, read the letter we mailed you..."

Aug 17, 2017 (Day 33) - Interview Appointment Letter PDF posted online---GOT AN INTERVIEW DATE!!!

Aug 21, 2017 (Day 37) - Interview Appointment Letter received in the mail, appointment for 09/27/17

Sep. 27, 2017 (Day 74) - Naturalization Interview--- read my experience here

Sep. 27, 2017 (Day 74) - Online MYUSCIS status shows "Oath Ceremony Notice mailed"

Sep. 28, 2017 (Day 75) - Oath Ceremony Letter PDF posted online--Ceremony for 10/19/17

Oct. 02, 2017 (Day 79) -  Oath Ceremony Letter received in the mail

Oct. 19, 2017 (Day 96) -  Oath Ceremony-- read my experience here

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Going through said:

Yeah...they are synonyms, but I hate quoting dictionaries and the thesaurus...you can google it though if interested.

 

I do see what you are saying, however In this context of the thread I doubt the OP is more concerned over my use of a synonym rather than their present situation.

 

Regardless of the word used, the question still stands, and I'm curious if the lawyer signed the form.  Or is "form" not an acceptable word to you, either?

I agree it's an interesting question, that also will make no difference in the ultimate result.  Many posts are read by far more people than those who respond.  When we confuse, we confuse all readers, not just the OP.  Context is important.  

 

Aside, while a thesaurus may list words that "COULD" be used interchangeably, it doesn't do the work of determining which of them is appropriate to the users instant context.  In this context, the two words are definitely NOT interchangeable.

Facts are cheap...knowing how to use them is precious...
Understanding the big picture is priceless. Anonymous

Google Who is Pushbrk?

A Warning to Green Card Holders About Voting

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/606646-a-warning-to-green-card-holders-about-voting/

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30 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

I agree it's an interesting question, that also will make no difference in the ultimate result.  Many posts are read by far more people than those who respond.  When we confuse, we confuse all readers, not just the OP.  Context is important.  

 

Aside, while a thesaurus may list words that "COULD" be used interchangeably, it doesn't do the work of determining which of them is appropriate to the users instant context.  In this context, the two words are definitely NOT interchangeable.

Oh I know it won't make a difference in the end result---I was more curious due to the lawyer's seemingly unscrupulous behavior so far as revealed by the OP...

 

You bring up an interesting point as well.   Context can be subjective to the reader, as is reasonable in a forum of this size with so many mindsets and points of view.  Look at the two of us as an example---our instant context of the use of the interchangeable words was totally different depending on how we viewed it.

 

(I do find this side conversation with you interesting, seriously, because I like to study origin of languages as a whole---I just don't want to derail the thread...)

Applied for Naturalization based on 5-year Residency - 96 Days To Complete Citizenship!

July 14, 2017 (Day 00) -  Submitted N400 Application, filed online

July 21, 2017 (Day 07) -  NOA Receipt received in the mail

July 22, 2017 (Day 08) - Biometrics appointment scheduled online, letter mailed out

July 25, 2017 (Day 11) - Biometrics PDF posted online

July 28, 2017 (Day 14) - Biometrics letter received in the mail, appointment for 08/08/17

Aug 08, 2017 (Day 24) - Biometrics (fingerprinting) completed

Aug 14, 2017 (Day 30) - Online EGOV status shows "Interview Scheduled, will mail appointment letter"

Aug 16, 2017 (Day 32) - Online MYUSCIS status shows "Interview Scheduled, read the letter we mailed you..."

Aug 17, 2017 (Day 33) - Interview Appointment Letter PDF posted online---GOT AN INTERVIEW DATE!!!

Aug 21, 2017 (Day 37) - Interview Appointment Letter received in the mail, appointment for 09/27/17

Sep. 27, 2017 (Day 74) - Naturalization Interview--- read my experience here

Sep. 27, 2017 (Day 74) - Online MYUSCIS status shows "Oath Ceremony Notice mailed"

Sep. 28, 2017 (Day 75) - Oath Ceremony Letter PDF posted online--Ceremony for 10/19/17

Oct. 02, 2017 (Day 79) -  Oath Ceremony Letter received in the mail

Oct. 19, 2017 (Day 96) -  Oath Ceremony-- read my experience here

 

 

 

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On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 6:03 PM, jayjayj said:

Oh, I was hoping you were not going to say that.  Knowingly omitting information (previous marriage) on immigration forms is considered fraud and normally results in a lifetime ban.  You're about to get a lot of replies to this thread.

Regretfully you appear to be incorrect about this.  Willful misrepresentation and fraud are two different things however both are grounds for denial of admission.  "Fraud" gets thrown around too many times on these pages.  Here's a handy tool for all of us so that we can tell the difference.  From the standpoint of admissibility it does not matter,

 

https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/Print/PolicyManual-Volume8-PartJ.html

 

See the step about "determine if it was material"

 

This information is not "material" to the outcome of the case unless there is a household size/income issue where 2 makes the cut and 3 does not.  This exact thing is actually established case law in US immigration court.  USCIS discovered this same omission (previous marriage / children) in another case and used it to order deportation.  Court initially agreed.  Appeals court threw it out, based on the fact that the omission was not material to the final outcome and the deportation order was overturned. 

Bad news:  Unfortunately there is no appeals process in front of the CO.  Leaving the hurdle as the appearance of willful misrepresentation.  Which the CO can and is actually required to use as grounds for denial.  The sure thing?  Withdraw the whole thing and start over.  No fraud or misrepresentation has occurred until this guy stands in front of the officer and does it.  That's my advice.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Nitas_man said:

Regretfully you appear to be incorrect about this.  Willful misrepresentation and fraud are two different things however both are grounds for denial of admission.  "Fraud" gets thrown around too many times on these pages.  Here's a handy tool for all of us so that we can tell the difference.  From the standpoint of admissibility it does not matter,

 

https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/Print/PolicyManual-Volume8-PartJ.html

 

See the step about "determine if it was material"

 

This information is not "material" to the outcome of the case unless there is a household size/income issue where 2 makes the cut and 3 does not.  This exact thing is actually established case law in US immigration court.  USCIS discovered this same omission (previous marriage / children) in another case and used it to order deportation.  Court initially agreed.  Appeals court threw it out, based on the fact that the omission was not material to the final outcome and the deportation order was overturned. 

Bad news:  Unfortunately there is no appeals process in front of the CO.  Leaving the hurdle as the appearance of willful misrepresentation.  Which the CO can and is actually required to use as grounds for denial.  The sure thing?  Withdraw the whole thing and start over.  No fraud or misrepresentation has occurred until this guy stands in front of the officer and does it.  That's my advice.

 

 

Are you saying that person who acted in this way committed fraud or material misrepresentation?  

 

 

Click Spoiler for signature timeline.

 

3/10/2013 - Married

Green Card Process Summary
3/25/2013 - Submitted I-130's
01/13/2014 - Embassy Interview - Approved!
05/28/2014 - POE (U.S. Customs and Immigration Overseas Preclearance Facility - Abu Dhabi)
08/20/2014 - Green Card received.

Naturalization Process

01/20/2015 - Submitted N-400 for immediate naturalization under INA 319b.

02/10/2015 - Check cashed.

02/14/2015 - NOA

04/07/2015 - Case shipped to local field office.

04/08/2015 - Interview scheduled for July 6, 2015.

04/08/2015 - Wifey better be studying her butt off for the citizenship test!

07/08/2015 - Wifey was studying her butt off and passed the test easily. Oath ceremony completed on same day! We are done with our journey!

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Nitas_man said:

Regretfully you appear to be incorrect about this.  Willful misrepresentation and fraud are two different things however both are grounds for denial of admission.  "Fraud" gets thrown around too many times on these pages.  Here's a handy tool for all of us so that we can tell the difference.  From the standpoint of admissibility it does not matter,

 

https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/Print/PolicyManual-Volume8-PartJ.html

 

See the step about "determine if it was material"

 

This information is not "material" to the outcome of the case unless there is a household size/income issue where 2 makes the cut and 3 does not.  This exact thing is actually established case law in US immigration court.  USCIS discovered this same omission (previous marriage / children) in another case and used it to order deportation.  Court initially agreed.  Appeals court threw it out, based on the fact that the omission was not material to the final outcome and the deportation order was overturned. 

Bad news:  Unfortunately there is no appeals process in front of the CO.  Leaving the hurdle as the appearance of willful misrepresentation.  Which the CO can and is actually required to use as grounds for denial.  The sure thing?  Withdraw the whole thing and start over.  No fraud or misrepresentation has occurred until this guy stands in front of the officer and does it.  That's my advice.

 

 

After reading the information on your link, it appears I am correct.  

 

Op clearly stated he intentionally left his previous marriage off the immigration forms, on the advice of his attorney.  Regardless, he signed the forms knowing full well that he intentionally answered questions on the form with the wrong information - meaning he intentionally deceived an immigration officer while seeking immigration benefits.  Intentionally deceiving an immigration officer is fraud, based on the link you provided.

 

 

Click Spoiler for signature timeline.

 

3/10/2013 - Married

Green Card Process Summary
3/25/2013 - Submitted I-130's
01/13/2014 - Embassy Interview - Approved!
05/28/2014 - POE (U.S. Customs and Immigration Overseas Preclearance Facility - Abu Dhabi)
08/20/2014 - Green Card received.

Naturalization Process

01/20/2015 - Submitted N-400 for immediate naturalization under INA 319b.

02/10/2015 - Check cashed.

02/14/2015 - NOA

04/07/2015 - Case shipped to local field office.

04/08/2015 - Interview scheduled for July 6, 2015.

04/08/2015 - Wifey better be studying her butt off for the citizenship test!

07/08/2015 - Wifey was studying her butt off and passed the test easily. Oath ceremony completed on same day! We are done with our journey!

 

 

 

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Filed: Other Country: Saudi Arabia
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On September 29, 2017 at 5:59 PM, jayjayj said:

After reading the information on your link, it appears I am correct.  

 

Op clearly stated he intentionally left his previous marriage off the immigration forms, on the advice of his attorney.  Regardless, he signed the forms knowing full well that he intentionally answered questions on the form with the wrong information - meaning he intentionally deceived an immigration officer while seeking immigration benefits.  Intentionally deceiving an immigration officer is fraud, based on the link you provided.

Jan082010_01H5212.pdf

 

i was inclined to conclude the same thing however if you carefully read this USCIS case from their website the exact same situation eventually resulted in a favorable ruling.

 

So i'm calling it willful omission of a non-material nature - however said willful omission virtually guarantees rejection at this interview.

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